Forum | VAR last night by Cheltenham_Blue

Where are we going to finish?

VAR last night on 11:10 - Dec 31 with 3851 views

Blue_In_Boston

If they were determined to assist Chelsea they would have overturned the penalty decision. I do agree that they took ridiculously long for what looked like a simple decision on the offside.

VAR last night on 11:19 - Dec 31 with 3789 views

Chrisd

At one point, I thought they might draw the line free hand to make sure the Chelsea player was onside. He looked off after the first viewing.

I see lots of debate about VAR regarding the challenge on Delap for our pen. Hate this nonsense 'there's not enough contact,' when that in itself is subjective from the start. Either there is contact or there isn't, surely?

[Post edited 31 Dec 2024 11:21]

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VAR last night on 11:21 - Dec 31 with 3762 views

Where are we going to finish?

VAR last night on 11:19 - Dec 31 by Chrisd
At one point, I thought they might draw the line free hand to make sure the Chelsea player was onside. He looked off after the first viewing. I see lots of debate about VAR regarding the challenge on Delap for our pen. Hate this nonsense 'there's not enough contact,' when that in itself is subjective from the start. Either there is contact or there isn't, surely? [Post edited 31 Dec 2024 11:21]

Contact is irrelevant (or levels of it are). Was he impeded? The answer is yes.

If he was standing still on both feet, that level of contact ought never to be a pen, but if you clip a trailing foot as he is trying to stride, there is no way a player can regain balance.

VAR last night on 11:22 - Dec 31 with 3747 views

Pinewoodblue

Michael Oliver, on VAR duty. Was clearly looking for a way of awarding Chelsea a goal.

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VAR last night on 11:23 - Dec 31 with 3737 views

Chrisd

VAR last night on 11:21 - Dec 31 by redrickstuhaart
Contact is irrelevant (or levels of it are). Was he impeded? The answer is yes. If he was standing still on both feet, that level of contact ought never to be a pen, but if you clip a trailing foot as he is trying to stride, there is no way a player can regain balance.

Certainly enough contact to go down for me. Their keeper was nowhere near the ball, it isn't really up for debate.

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VAR last night on 11:38 - Dec 31 with 3640 views

smithy69

VAR last night on 11:22 - Dec 31 by Pinewoodblue
Michael Oliver, on VAR duty. Was clearly looking for a way of awarding Chelsea a goal.

Your comment makes no sense - as he didn’t overturn the softest penalty ever (obvs I’m buzzing he didn’t) and didn’t find a way to give the offside onside

You can’t throw any negativity towards the VAR

VAR last night on 12:33 - Dec 31 with 3511 views

longtimefan

One question I have is do we have good enough VAR cameras? The quality of some of images looks poor and I’ve yet to see any lines drawn for any of the offside decisions taken by VAR. is our current implementation lacking something from a technological perspective?

VAR last night on 12:47 - Dec 31 with 3457 views

ITFC_Forever

VAR last night on 12:33 - Dec 31 by longtimefan
One question I have is do we have good enough VAR cameras? The quality of some of images looks poor and I’ve yet to see any lines drawn for any of the offside decisions taken by VAR. is our current implementation lacking something from a technological perspective?

Yep, I'm sure the Prem would have allowed us to install cameras not up to the required spec.

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VAR last night on 12:49 - Dec 31 with 3443 views

PrideOfTheEast

VAR last night on 12:33 - Dec 31 by longtimefan
One question I have is do we have good enough VAR cameras? The quality of some of images looks poor and I’ve yet to see any lines drawn for any of the offside decisions taken by VAR. is our current implementation lacking something from a technological perspective?

Thought the same. I did wonder why everybody doesn’t have some sort of drone/aerial camera for judging offsides - wouldn’t that be better?

VAR last night on 12:50 - Dec 31 with 3440 views

_clive_baker_

The longer it went on the more convinced I was it was going to be given. Thought it was onside in real time I must say. I've not seen a replay though.

VAR last night on 12:58 - Dec 31 with 3345 views

tractorboy1978

VAR last night on 12:50 - Dec 31 by _clive_baker_
The longer it went on the more convinced I was it was going to be given. Thought it was onside in real time I must say. I've not seen a replay though.

Was well off. Can't believe it took so long to come to that conclusion!

VAR last night on 13:11 - Dec 31 with 3300 views

Radlett_blue

VAR last night on 11:38 - Dec 31 by smithy69
Your comment makes no sense - as he didn’t overturn the softest penalty ever (obvs I’m buzzing he didn’t) and didn’t find a way to give the offside onside You can’t throw any negativity towards the VAR

if that penalty had been given to the opposition, plenty of people on here would be screaming as to why VAR didn't overturn it, calling the guy a cheat etc. There is a lot of interpretation involved in penalty decisions & understandably, the laws are usually interpreted differently in the penalty areas. Nice to see Town being on the right end of one of these debatable decisions for a change.

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VAR last night on 13:15 - Dec 31 with 3281 views

VAR last night on 11:10 - Dec 31 by Blue_In_Boston
If they were determined to assist Chelsea they would have overturned the penalty decision. I do agree that they took ridiculously long for what looked like a simple decision on the offside.

That really wasn't my point. My point was the offside goal which they took an age over, far too long in my opinion as it was clearly offside on the first viewing, without the need to resort to the multiple angles which anyone with a basic knowledge could see would never help.

Just get the lines on and be done with it.

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VAR last night on 13:47 - Dec 31 with 3192 views

VAR last night on 13:15 - Dec 31 by Cheltenham_Blue
That really wasn't my point. My point was the offside goal which they took an age over, far too long in my opinion as it was clearly offside on the first viewing, without the need to resort to the multiple angles which anyone with a basic knowledge could see would never help. Just get the lines on and be done with it.

The interesting question is why they are no longer showing the lines. Presumably to avoid criticism over toenail decisions. Another absence of transparency. Highly dubious imo.

VAR last night on 13:48 - Dec 31 with 3199 views

PhilTWTD

VAR last night on 12:58 - Dec 31 by tractorboy1978
Was well off. Can't believe it took so long to come to that conclusion!

Looked off in real time and took one glance at the still image to confirm that was the case.

VAR last night on 13:56 - Dec 31 with 3140 views

SuffolkPunchFC

VAR last night on 13:47 - Dec 31 by redrickstuhaart
The interesting question is why they are no longer showing the lines. Presumably to avoid criticism over toenail decisions. Another absence of transparency. Highly dubious imo.

This is the best analysis I've seen - from ESPN,

The VAR was having trouble finding an angle to place the offside lines, as Felix was obscuring the feet of the defenders on the main camera. After checking a number of angles, the VAR decided that while the lines couldn't be displayed there was clear evidence that the Chelsea attacker was ahead of the defence when the pass was played by Cole Palmer.

VAR last night on 13:58 - Dec 31 with 3126 views

VAR last night on 13:56 - Dec 31 by SuffolkPunchFC

But they have not shown lines at all in our games as far as I can recall....

VAR last night on 14:03 - Dec 31 with 3095 views

VAR last night on 13:56 - Dec 31 by SuffolkPunchFC

That's all nonsense though. All you have to do is put in a line that is parallel to the goal line and then move it to the point of the offside.

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VAR last night on 14:30 - Dec 31 with 2982 views

SuffolkPunchFC

VAR last night on 14:03 - Dec 31 by Cheltenham_Blue
That's all nonsense though. All you have to do is put in a line that is parallel to the goal line and then move it to the point of the offside.

How is it nonsense?

If you draw a line but cannot see the position of the relevant body parts of the players that may be playing the goal scorer on/offside, then the line tells you nothing and is pointless.

Take this main angle - you can probably just about make out Morsy and Burns' front foot positions, but Wolfy is completely obscured. Therefore drawing a line adds no useful information - a judgement has to be made on the other visuals available. In this case Wolfy's general body and juxtaposition - could his front foot be forward enough to place Felix onside, even though not visible.

It was judged (correctly IMO) that this was unlikely, hence the offside, but placing a line would not have shown this either way.

VAR last night on 14:34 - Dec 31 with 2946 views

BloomBlue

There was contact for the pen but I thought it was more a case of Delap moving his foot towards the GK rather than the GK catching him. But loads of strikers do that so who cares, the ref gave it and VAR confirmed, accept it and move on.

VAR last night on 14:43 - Dec 31 with 2898 views

VAR last night on 14:30 - Dec 31 by SuffolkPunchFC

It was judged (correctly IMO) that this was unlikely, hence the offside, but placing a line would not have shown this either way.

Sorry mate, I didn't realise that you wrote that for ESPN.

"but Wolfy is completely obscured. Therefore drawing a line adds no useful information - a judgement has to be made on the other visuals available. In this case Wolfy's general body and juxtaposition - could his front foot be forward enough to place Felix onside, even though not visible"

As I said, yes, if Wolfies leg is 8 ft long.

Nonsense.

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VAR last night on 14:46 - Dec 31 with 2870 views

VAR last night on 14:43 - Dec 31 by Cheltenham_Blue

Quite. And if it was that long to be level with the attackers shoulder, it would show!

VAR last night on 14:47 - Dec 31 with 2860 views

GeoffSentence

VAR last night on 14:30 - Dec 31 by SuffolkPunchFC

It was judged (correctly IMO) that this was unlikely, hence the offside, but placing a line would not have shown this either way.

Morsy would have to have his knee at 90 degrees and Burns be wearing winklepickers for that to be onside.

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VAR last night on 14:48 - Dec 31 with 2853 views

SuffolkPunchFC

VAR last night on 14:43 - Dec 31 by Cheltenham_Blue

The question was not whether or not it was offside - it was 'why wasn't a line drawn'.

And that is (should be) simple to understand. It adds nothing useful.

VAR last night on 14:52 - Dec 31 with 2814 views

VAR last night on 14:48 - Dec 31 by SuffolkPunchFC
The question was not whether or not it was offside - it was 'why wasn't a line drawn'. And that is (should be) simple to understand. It adds nothing useful.

Do you think that our VAR cameras (installed by The Premier League) have been installed in such a way that they can't find a 'suitable angle' to draw a line?

Christ, that means we'll never get any marginal decisions right at Portman Road. Someone ought to ring someone.

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