| Starmer saying just enough here 21:10 - May 24 with 2716 views | Mullet |
He's going to wear Johnson like a feedbag at PMQs isn't he? The venom will just keep festering into what is a very open wound for anyone of us with any decency. I get the sense Starmer will hit him with a flurry of very clear and simple points and those will become the soundbites that drive this.
We might eventually get our country back sooner rather than later. |  |
| |  |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:12 - May 24 with 2667 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Not sure quite how this gets our country back though. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:18 - May 24 with 2619 views | Mullet |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:12 - May 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Not sure quite how this gets our country back though. |
The fall of Johnson if it is indeed swift and damaging from a PR perspective will cause a civil war amongst the Tories I hope.
Another GE if forced through in 18 months or so will hopefully see them ousted and the job of undoing so much of their damage can begin. We stop being a terrible USA-lite tribute act too.
Even if it means waiting until the next GE is due, the damage of this pandemic, this inept government and what is likely to keep it limping along will no doubt see them reduced for years to come. They are perhaps heading for the same factionalism that saw Labour tailspin under JC into oblivion.
Starmer can no doubt solidify himself nationally and inside his own party very quickly if he plays this right, and this to me looks a pointer towards that. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:32 - May 24 with 2565 views | LankHenners |
What was the BS he was going on about earlier about this “needing an enquiry”? Wtf does he think is going to happen? Weak as p!ss.
I do think people are getting a bit carried away with the PMQs thing - obviously a lawyer wipes the floor with a goon like Boris there but these things only tend to confirm biases anyway. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:37 - May 24 with 2532 views | Mullet |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:32 - May 24 by LankHenners |
What was the BS he was going on about earlier about this “needing an enquiry”? Wtf does he think is going to happen? Weak as p!ss.
I do think people are getting a bit carried away with the PMQs thing - obviously a lawyer wipes the floor with a goon like Boris there but these things only tend to confirm biases anyway. |
I don't know. The words he used there were "he didn't order and investigation" which to my mind plants two seeds: "Boris didn't order" i.e. take action he just talked and a nod to Russia, Accuri, Vote Leave etc. I suspect those things will be piled on top of Johnson at an opportune moment.
The thought that at every point possible, Starmer will be able to flex his muscle and wipe the floor with Johnson is perhaps a circus but it sends a very clear message and I look forward to that. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:52 - May 24 with 2469 views | tractordownsouth |
Still got one spineless cretin with the audacity to accuse Starmer of politicising the event, when he's spent the weekend throwing public health messaging under the bus just to protect his leader's mate.
|  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 07:55 - May 25 with 2262 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:18 - May 24 by Mullet |
The fall of Johnson if it is indeed swift and damaging from a PR perspective will cause a civil war amongst the Tories I hope.
Another GE if forced through in 18 months or so will hopefully see them ousted and the job of undoing so much of their damage can begin. We stop being a terrible USA-lite tribute act too.
Even if it means waiting until the next GE is due, the damage of this pandemic, this inept government and what is likely to keep it limping along will no doubt see them reduced for years to come. They are perhaps heading for the same factionalism that saw Labour tailspin under JC into oblivion.
Starmer can no doubt solidify himself nationally and inside his own party very quickly if he plays this right, and this to me looks a pointer towards that. |
A few problems with that:
A) Starmer really needs to address the Labour right and clear up an awful mess from the past 5 years of external and internal dirty tricks. Without that, he'll be going head to head with a majority of party members.
B) He'll likely need the electoral support of the SNP even if he can neutralise/ally with the LibDems. That demands a few concessions
C) While I'm in no doubt Labour under Starmer is better than the Tories, he needs to show a willingness to "undo the damage". Last time we had an Establishment-approved opposition and eventual Labour government, they slowed the damage but even after 13 years in power they didn't undo any of the structural issues. In fact they arguably cemented them and let the Tories pick up where they left off. I'm encouraged when Starmer says he's still committed to a platform of progressive policies but he still needs to propose that in the name of his leadership. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:02 - May 25 with 2244 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:32 - May 24 by LankHenners |
What was the BS he was going on about earlier about this “needing an enquiry”? Wtf does he think is going to happen? Weak as p!ss.
I do think people are getting a bit carried away with the PMQs thing - obviously a lawyer wipes the floor with a goon like Boris there but these things only tend to confirm biases anyway. |
Agreed an enquiry will go nowhere, but what else can he do? If he rants and raves like the rest of us it’ll just get batted aside as politicking or hysteria.
He’s behaving in a calm measured way. Makes a change to have an adult in the House. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:02 - May 25 with 2242 views | itfcjoe |
It’s a gift for Labour - they can just go with ‘One rule for them, one rule for the them/the elite’
That people vs the elite has been so powerful on 2016 and 2019 and they’ve lost that from their arsenal now |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:05 - May 25 with 2226 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:02 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
It’s a gift for Labour - they can just go with ‘One rule for them, one rule for the them/the elite’
That people vs the elite has been so powerful on 2016 and 2019 and they’ve lost that from their arsenal now |
They've arguably lost that from the Labour side too.
He'll need to show that he's not just a different shade of the Establishment - especially for the voters that didn't realise they were actually voting for the elite. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:17 - May 25 with 2179 views | Mullet |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:52 - May 24 by tractordownsouth |
Still got one spineless cretin with the audacity to accuse Starmer of politicising the event, when he's spent the weekend throwing public health messaging under the bus just to protect his leader's mate.
|
The coordinated “politicise this” tweets from the Torres is laughable because twitter makes it very easy to see that they’re all being told to use it. So it rings even more hollow.
That’s before you even look at the hypocrisy of it. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:22 - May 25 with 2156 views | Mullet |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 07:55 - May 25 by Darth_Koont |
A few problems with that:
A) Starmer really needs to address the Labour right and clear up an awful mess from the past 5 years of external and internal dirty tricks. Without that, he'll be going head to head with a majority of party members.
B) He'll likely need the electoral support of the SNP even if he can neutralise/ally with the LibDems. That demands a few concessions
C) While I'm in no doubt Labour under Starmer is better than the Tories, he needs to show a willingness to "undo the damage". Last time we had an Establishment-approved opposition and eventual Labour government, they slowed the damage but even after 13 years in power they didn't undo any of the structural issues. In fact they arguably cemented them and let the Tories pick up where they left off. I'm encouraged when Starmer says he's still committed to a platform of progressive policies but he still needs to propose that in the name of his leadership. |
There’s loads of problems, that’s thanks to a gullible public, racist dog whistle politics, poverty and an opposition who rather than face it down turned inward on some bizarre fantasy built around Corbyn.
The gifts they provided to the media, to Johnson et al.
This idea of him being “establishment” is exactly the issue. We need someone who knows how to govern, how things work and how to appeal to a cross section of the public. Complaining about that and sneering at it is exactly why the aggressive minority in Labour who clustered around Momentum are complicit in letting this current regime in.
I’d gladly see the lot of them gone and left to their own party in the shadows frankly.
This country desperately needs centrism more than ever. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:36 - May 25 with 2102 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:22 - May 25 by Mullet |
There’s loads of problems, that’s thanks to a gullible public, racist dog whistle politics, poverty and an opposition who rather than face it down turned inward on some bizarre fantasy built around Corbyn.
The gifts they provided to the media, to Johnson et al.
This idea of him being “establishment” is exactly the issue. We need someone who knows how to govern, how things work and how to appeal to a cross section of the public. Complaining about that and sneering at it is exactly why the aggressive minority in Labour who clustered around Momentum are complicit in letting this current regime in.
I’d gladly see the lot of them gone and left to their own party in the shadows frankly.
This country desperately needs centrism more than ever. |
Respectfully, this country needs less party political posturing and actual progressive policies that drag us into the 21st century.
Centrism has shown itself to be an obstacle to that over the past couple of decades. Ultimately, it's paved the way for the sorry nonsense we see on the right because it never provides a strong enough counter-argument. And indeed it's fragmented electoral opposition for the past few elections.
You'll have no argument with me about people turning Corbyn into a cult, but the same is true about those who demonised him. Anything less than a policy-driven discussion is meaningless and just bringing us back to territory where the Tories are most at home. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:41 - May 25 with 2069 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 21:18 - May 24 by Mullet |
The fall of Johnson if it is indeed swift and damaging from a PR perspective will cause a civil war amongst the Tories I hope.
Another GE if forced through in 18 months or so will hopefully see them ousted and the job of undoing so much of their damage can begin. We stop being a terrible USA-lite tribute act too.
Even if it means waiting until the next GE is due, the damage of this pandemic, this inept government and what is likely to keep it limping along will no doubt see them reduced for years to come. They are perhaps heading for the same factionalism that saw Labour tailspin under JC into oblivion.
Starmer can no doubt solidify himself nationally and inside his own party very quickly if he plays this right, and this to me looks a pointer towards that. |
Rishi 'money tree' Sunak to the rescue! |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:43 - May 25 with 2058 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:22 - May 25 by Mullet |
There’s loads of problems, that’s thanks to a gullible public, racist dog whistle politics, poverty and an opposition who rather than face it down turned inward on some bizarre fantasy built around Corbyn.
The gifts they provided to the media, to Johnson et al.
This idea of him being “establishment” is exactly the issue. We need someone who knows how to govern, how things work and how to appeal to a cross section of the public. Complaining about that and sneering at it is exactly why the aggressive minority in Labour who clustered around Momentum are complicit in letting this current regime in.
I’d gladly see the lot of them gone and left to their own party in the shadows frankly.
This country desperately needs centrism more than ever. |
I think the kids would say ‘boom’.
Spot on. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:50 - May 25 with 2016 views | Mullet |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:36 - May 25 by Darth_Koont |
Respectfully, this country needs less party political posturing and actual progressive policies that drag us into the 21st century.
Centrism has shown itself to be an obstacle to that over the past couple of decades. Ultimately, it's paved the way for the sorry nonsense we see on the right because it never provides a strong enough counter-argument. And indeed it's fragmented electoral opposition for the past few elections.
You'll have no argument with me about people turning Corbyn into a cult, but the same is true about those who demonised him. Anything less than a policy-driven discussion is meaningless and just bringing us back to territory where the Tories are most at home. |
Starmer is doing the exact opposite of posturing though. When he gets a chance to put policy up to scrutiny we’ll see won’t we?
That argument about centrism doesn’t ring true for me, it’s down to the Torres being opportunistic power of all else types, as far as the party goes. The public will back winners, even if they break the law and can’t count up their own kids.
Corbyn allowed himself to be demonised because he couldn’t break away from the cult of Jezza and step into being a leader, let alone a PM for as long as 5 minutes.
This country needs someone who can generate a consensus not deeper trenches. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:02 - May 25 with 1982 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:50 - May 25 by Mullet |
Starmer is doing the exact opposite of posturing though. When he gets a chance to put policy up to scrutiny we’ll see won’t we?
That argument about centrism doesn’t ring true for me, it’s down to the Torres being opportunistic power of all else types, as far as the party goes. The public will back winners, even if they break the law and can’t count up their own kids.
Corbyn allowed himself to be demonised because he couldn’t break away from the cult of Jezza and step into being a leader, let alone a PM for as long as 5 minutes.
This country needs someone who can generate a consensus not deeper trenches. |
"This country needs someone who can generate a consensus not deeper trenches."
Ironic that, with his and Starmer's Brexit policy, this is what Corbyn was most criticised over by both entrenched Remainers and Brexiteers.So I think that's a little hopeful.
The argument against centrism isn't a question of ringing true, it's looking at the UK over the past three or four decades. Clearly, centrism isn't a balance bringing the best interests of the country into one sensible place, it's partisan and interested in its own power just like the left and the right are. It's also characterised by an unwillingness to embrace meaningful change, certainly in the two-party democracies of the UK and US.
I have respect for people with centrist views but let's get real here. I have more respect for people who are committed to addressing poverty at the deeper and more necessary level. That's about policy and it's a policy centrists are free to take up. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:04 - May 25 with 1971 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:02 - May 25 by Darth_Koont |
"This country needs someone who can generate a consensus not deeper trenches."
Ironic that, with his and Starmer's Brexit policy, this is what Corbyn was most criticised over by both entrenched Remainers and Brexiteers.So I think that's a little hopeful.
The argument against centrism isn't a question of ringing true, it's looking at the UK over the past three or four decades. Clearly, centrism isn't a balance bringing the best interests of the country into one sensible place, it's partisan and interested in its own power just like the left and the right are. It's also characterised by an unwillingness to embrace meaningful change, certainly in the two-party democracies of the UK and US.
I have respect for people with centrist views but let's get real here. I have more respect for people who are committed to addressing poverty at the deeper and more necessary level. That's about policy and it's a policy centrists are free to take up. |
Who did more to reduce poverty during their time as labour leader? Centrist Blair or idealist Corbyn? |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:16 - May 25 with 1944 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:04 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Who did more to reduce poverty during their time as labour leader? Centrist Blair or idealist Corbyn? |
Strawman. I'm not arguing that almost any Labour government isn't better than a Tory government. But who did more to address where the UK was going wrong and needs to be better?
Let's thank the almighty God that Blair helped us get off that neoliberal, imperialist train before we did something stupid like get further ensnared in the Middle East, leave the EU and still have 4 million of our own children living in poverty. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:49 - May 25 with 1858 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:16 - May 25 by Darth_Koont |
Strawman. I'm not arguing that almost any Labour government isn't better than a Tory government. But who did more to address where the UK was going wrong and needs to be better?
Let's thank the almighty God that Blair helped us get off that neoliberal, imperialist train before we did something stupid like get further ensnared in the Middle East, leave the EU and still have 4 million of our own children living in poverty. |
Its only a strawman if you can personally afford to think theoretically. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:54 - May 25 with 1838 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:49 - May 25 by giant_stow |
Its only a strawman if you can personally afford to think theoretically. |
Or lie, cheat and steal to ensure Labour don't get elected.
The real shame of course is that none of the stuff I mentioned is theory. It happened and will no doubt continue to happen while people personally think they can afford it. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 10:04 - May 25 with 1771 views | pointofblue |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 09:54 - May 25 by Darth_Koont |
Or lie, cheat and steal to ensure Labour don't get elected.
The real shame of course is that none of the stuff I mentioned is theory. It happened and will no doubt continue to happen while people personally think they can afford it. |
A competent Labour Party would have beaten Johnson easily, even with the latter’s alleged lying, cheating and stealing. The difference to 2017 is Johnson and Cummings were far better in connecting to the public and getting a message across than May was which took away Corbyn’s key strength in the campaign. They were also brazen enough to get away with running away from Andrew Neil whilst May got hauled over the coals for missing out on the group debates.
Johnson’s strength is coming across as a man in the pub. Unfortunately for us as a country this is now being to shown as an actual character trait rather than a persona to appeal to the public. Now he has to make tough decisions he is found horribly wanting. Starmer should be able to take advantage of this and he possibly will not need to change much in way of policy to do considering the 2017 result. The question is how much of a stamp will he want to put on the party and how far does he want to pull it back towards the centre. |  |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 10:21 - May 25 with 1737 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 10:04 - May 25 by pointofblue |
A competent Labour Party would have beaten Johnson easily, even with the latter’s alleged lying, cheating and stealing. The difference to 2017 is Johnson and Cummings were far better in connecting to the public and getting a message across than May was which took away Corbyn’s key strength in the campaign. They were also brazen enough to get away with running away from Andrew Neil whilst May got hauled over the coals for missing out on the group debates.
Johnson’s strength is coming across as a man in the pub. Unfortunately for us as a country this is now being to shown as an actual character trait rather than a persona to appeal to the public. Now he has to make tough decisions he is found horribly wanting. Starmer should be able to take advantage of this and he possibly will not need to change much in way of policy to do considering the 2017 result. The question is how much of a stamp will he want to put on the party and how far does he want to pull it back towards the centre. |
A competent and balanced centre would have allowed them to beat Johnson. Much of the worst nonsense about Corbyn's leadership came from his enemies in the centre.
Of course, the left make mistakes and there is much they could and should do better. But overall, the centre is still entirely complicit with the Tories getting into power with too many of the politicians, media and electorate turning a blind eye to what was going on, and too many even joining in the lying, cheating and stealing to promote and protect their own narrow agenda. Add in the LibDems who split anti-Tory votes and debates as opposed to the Brexit Party that manages to firm up theirs and it's all a bit of a self-defeating shambles.
We got not just what we deserved with Johnson but over the years it's what we've created. I really hope that Starmer can provide the answer and stays true to his commitment to a progressive policy platform. But if he's going to be owned by the centre then we're just continuing down the same path but slightly slower.
Although FWIW I guarantee I won't lie, cheat and steal to keep Starmer out of power and the Tories in. In what we know to be a two-horse race there's no excuse for that. | |
| |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 10:45 - May 25 with 1691 views | LankHenners |
| Starmer saying just enough here on 08:02 - May 25 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed an enquiry will go nowhere, but what else can he do? If he rants and raves like the rest of us it’ll just get batted aside as politicking or hysteria.
He’s behaving in a calm measured way. Makes a change to have an adult in the House. |
He hasn’t really got anything to lose by straight up calling for him to go - it won’t happen whatever but he can point to the cases of Prof Ferguson and the CMO from Scotland to nail down the obvious double standards. Some Tory MPs have done so so it shouldn’t be beyond the LOTO.
I get that Starmer is very calm and collected but it rather confirms that words in politics like ‘electability’ and ‘holding to account’ are utterly meaningless and just translate to ‘I like them’. It’s also a rather low bar to set for what you want from a politician. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
