| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be 09:12 - Mar 17 with 2119 views | ArnieM |
1) infrastructure: there is either none , or it is dysfunctional. Either way it needs a massive overhaul.
2) Scouting network: do we even have one ?
Linked with ...
3) Recruitment : we simply do not recruit consistently , good quality players .
Items 2&3 are currently flawed. You only have to look at that lot up the road to see how it should snd can be done . We need a network that ventures into Europe . We need the correct “ mix” of players. Raw talent for development, quality players in their mid twenties, and some seasoned, experienced pros in their late 20’s very early 30’s ( to replace Skuse/Wilson/Chambers/) .
We currently don’t recruit , we have slipped back into using loanees ( often no better than our own players) .
4) Decent striker: we rarely get this right , Norwich by comparison ALWAYS get this right. A quality striker costs money . They’ve always been prepared to pay for that specific position , and it’s nearly always been the player they’ve built their team around . Examples , Ashton, Pukki, Earnshaw, Holt , Dublin, Iwan Roberts. ........ and who have we had ???
5) Academy: Were partially there. We do appear to develop good players ..... but then loan them out “for experience “. Under Sir Bobby young players were blooded (1 or 2) in a season into an established team , in the equivalent of the PL. Today, our young players are sent to Scotland, or division four level . WHY?? If they’re not good enough to cut it at division three level then they’re not good enough full stop.
We’ve flipped into setting out standards bar far, far, too low. It’s at ankle level . We “ accept” 3rd best every time . This is why we are currently where we are.
A lot of the above I’d form to funding , which stops squarely at Evans door. However our recruitment is flawed and Evans is currently paying the wages of over 40 mediocre players . There are players out there who have quality , that won’t cost a fortune . But we don’t have the infrastructure to identify and recruit them.
As major part of PC’s job includes all of the above .
The $60m questions is will Evans be on board with it ? Will this take over happen, because without it I fear PC will go the same way of Hurst, Lambert ALL of whom identified “ the problems “ at this Club but were flawed in their efforts to change things at that structural/ framework level. |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:16 - Mar 17 with 2093 views | J2BLUE |
Evans is not going to suddenly agree to wholesale changes to the structure of club. He hasn't done it yet and according to Phil doesn't want to delegate power.
So this will continue. He is well meaning but completely incompetent. |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:33 - Mar 17 with 2053 views | IpswichKnight |
Both us and that mob up the A140 have owners who know nothing about running a football club on a day to day basis. Both owners enjoy football and going to games. However the scum owners decided if you don’t know anything get people in who do and in the last 10 years or so it’s worked perfectly for them.
Us on the other hand we got the owners mates who were lawyers running the club part time and now the owner does it... part time. The only decisions he should have to make are when to sack a manager, agree the shortlist for a new one and decide on the playing budget everything else should be left to a full time CEO.
We desperately require leaders on the pitch, you can not imagine a team with DeVos, Holland or Magilton ever putting in a performance like last night, Jim would have ended up punching the lights out on all 11 who started! |  | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:41 - Mar 17 with 2033 views | NthQldITFC |
A long-term, malignant and deeply engrained culture of failure, or at least that's how it looks from the outside. One of the symptoms seems to be that even with an enthusiastic, respected new manager, the group of players are unable to raise even the slightest sign of a new manager bounce, they as a group are that weakened. Hard to shift that without a massive clearout and a major investment of talent and character, and hard to see that with the current owner. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:46 - Mar 17 with 2015 views | hype313 |
On point 4 saying they ALWAYS get this right, I give you Ricky Van Wolfswinkel, also Pukki was hardly pulling up trees in his early tenure.
Also, given the players you have mentioned we could argue that we have had Marcus, Johnson, Bent, Kuqi, Murphy, McGoldrick in that same time, so I don't think we have been inferior in that dept, the past two years then most definitely. |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:50 - Mar 17 with 1987 views | Stewart27 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:46 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
On point 4 saying they ALWAYS get this right, I give you Ricky Van Wolfswinkel, also Pukki was hardly pulling up trees in his early tenure.
Also, given the players you have mentioned we could argue that we have had Marcus, Johnson, Bent, Kuqi, Murphy, McGoldrick in that same time, so I don't think we have been inferior in that dept, the past two years then most definitely. |
Pukki completely hit the ground running.
It took him a few games to get going. I think we can allow that.
Probably around the same time as we recruited Leon Best. | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:51 - Mar 17 with 1977 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:46 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
On point 4 saying they ALWAYS get this right, I give you Ricky Van Wolfswinkel, also Pukki was hardly pulling up trees in his early tenure.
Also, given the players you have mentioned we could argue that we have had Marcus, Johnson, Bent, Kuqi, Murphy, McGoldrick in that same time, so I don't think we have been inferior in that dept, the past two years then most definitely. |
I feel I must point out that David Johnson, Marcus Stewart and Darren Bent were all recruited over 20 years ago, with Kuqi more recently at 18 years and Murphy at 10. Hardly worth mentioning as good recruitments in the same time period as Pukki... |  |
| Football League First Division / Premier League
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:52 - Mar 17 with 1973 views | HARRY10 |
This will cost, that being to underlining cause of out constant failure
A good recruitment/scouting system requires money and a good coaching system to develop those players. It also needs to be seen as a long term strategy - something we don't seem to have.
Ours has been one of appointing a manager with a promotion on his CV. allow him to cobble together a bunch of cast offs, no hopers and loanees in the hope they can deliver promotion. When it doesn't work then start again the following summer..... and again, and again.
And each season we slide that much further down, The squad becomes that much poorer (though not smaller) and we are faced with the knowledge that no one else wants to sign our players - but we are willing to sign the ones they don't want. | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:04 - Mar 17 with 1936 views | ArnieM |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:51 - Mar 17 by TieDyedIn95 |
I feel I must point out that David Johnson, Marcus Stewart and Darren Bent were all recruited over 20 years ago, with Kuqi more recently at 18 years and Murphy at 10. Hardly worth mentioning as good recruitments in the same time period as Pukki... |
You’ve saved me a post there. Spot on. 👠| |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:08 - Mar 17 with 1919 views | MrTown |
Infrastructure etc can be thrown around all day long.
The reality is the players crossing the white line aren't good enough, and haven't been for multiple years.
This group of players will let you down time and time again. Paul Cook will be learning so much about them between now and the end of the season. I'm sure he already realises they can't be trusted - they'll be gone. |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:15 - Mar 17 with 1894 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:08 - Mar 17 by MrTown |
Infrastructure etc can be thrown around all day long.
The reality is the players crossing the white line aren't good enough, and haven't been for multiple years.
This group of players will let you down time and time again. Paul Cook will be learning so much about them between now and the end of the season. I'm sure he already realises they can't be trusted - they'll be gone. |
Spot on. No need for others to look for fancy excuses. It is ‘mindset’ not infrastructure that needs changing. |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:21 - Mar 17 with 1865 views | hype313 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:51 - Mar 17 by TieDyedIn95 |
I feel I must point out that David Johnson, Marcus Stewart and Darren Bent were all recruited over 20 years ago, with Kuqi more recently at 18 years and Murphy at 10. Hardly worth mentioning as good recruitments in the same time period as Pukki... |
Err I was pointing out all those in the OP such as Earnshaw 2006, Roberts 1997, Dublin 1997, Ashton 2005.
Notice how you take Pukki in isolation. [Post edited 17 Mar 2021 10:22]
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:33 - Mar 17 with 1825 views | HARRY10 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:21 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
Err I was pointing out all those in the OP such as Earnshaw 2006, Roberts 1997, Dublin 1997, Ashton 2005.
Notice how you take Pukki in isolation. [Post edited 17 Mar 2021 10:22]
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Remind us how many our top scorer has got this season | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:42 - Mar 17 with 1800 views | hype313 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:33 - Mar 17 by HARRY10 |
Remind us how many our top scorer has got this season |
Oh ffs, I'm talking about the generalised sweeping statement in the OP saying they have always got it right and then mentioning the names since 1997, I then put names from the same period from our time to counter the argument that they have got it better than we had, which isn't true.
I then ended it by saying obviously the past two years we have been inferior.
Anything else you need help with? | |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 11:49 - Mar 17 with 1717 views | Pique |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:46 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
On point 4 saying they ALWAYS get this right, I give you Ricky Van Wolfswinkel, also Pukki was hardly pulling up trees in his early tenure.
Also, given the players you have mentioned we could argue that we have had Marcus, Johnson, Bent, Kuqi, Murphy, McGoldrick in that same time, so I don't think we have been inferior in that dept, the past two years then most definitely. |
But the OP’s point was about investment in that position.
The last time we paid top whack for a quality striker was probably Marcus Stewart in 2000 - and it worked.
Kuqi, Murphy and McGoldrick were all frees and Bent was a youth product. So sometimes we get lucky without investing, but mostly we don’t. |  | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 11:52 - Mar 17 with 1706 views | hype313 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 11:49 - Mar 17 by Pique |
But the OP’s point was about investment in that position.
The last time we paid top whack for a quality striker was probably Marcus Stewart in 2000 - and it worked.
Kuqi, Murphy and McGoldrick were all frees and Bent was a youth product. So sometimes we get lucky without investing, but mostly we don’t. |
So we didn't invest in Waghorn or Garner then? | |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:00 - Mar 17 with 1690 views | Pique |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 11:52 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
So we didn't invest in Waghorn or Garner then? |
We did invest some money in both, and they were good signings. We got them slightly cheaper than they would have been because Rangers were falling apart (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Waghorn was the better player of the two, and I’m not sure you could call him an out and out striker. Garner was decent but not amazing.
I’m not sure it changes my statement that the last time we paid top dollar for a proven quality striker was Stewart.
(In the interests of fairness I should concede that we have paid a lot of money for at least one rubbish striker in Priskin). | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:06 - Mar 17 with 1654 views | ArnieM |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 10:15 - Mar 17 by Pinewoodblue |
Spot on. No need for others to look for fancy excuses. It is ‘mindset’ not infrastructure that needs changing. |
You say that but it is gone to the calibre of players we are recruiting isn’t it. Some players have s winners mentality, some don’t. We have by snd large copious amounts of the latter type. | |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:23 - Mar 17 with 1607 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
All things that our owner has failed to address.
He needs to come out and be honest about this Take over business and where he is with funding the club and putting into place a structure that does allow us to maximise is investment. So many clubs is this league doing more with less |  |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:36 - Mar 17 with 1582 views | hype313 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:00 - Mar 17 by Pique |
We did invest some money in both, and they were good signings. We got them slightly cheaper than they would have been because Rangers were falling apart (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Waghorn was the better player of the two, and I’m not sure you could call him an out and out striker. Garner was decent but not amazing.
I’m not sure it changes my statement that the last time we paid top dollar for a proven quality striker was Stewart.
(In the interests of fairness I should concede that we have paid a lot of money for at least one rubbish striker in Priskin). |
Think we're going around in circles here, the last time they invested in a striker was was when they were in the PL (RVW and Pukki) we have also invested in strikers in the past 5 years, you could argue they have done better business, but your comparing apples with a chicken balti when you look at the standing of the two clubs in recent times.
My point from the outset was comparing their striker in the OP which went back to 1997 and saying that since then we have made some equally good signings, as soon as I mentioned Pukki it went down a rabbit hole. | |
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| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:46 - Mar 17 with 1564 views | Pique |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:36 - Mar 17 by hype313 |
Think we're going around in circles here, the last time they invested in a striker was was when they were in the PL (RVW and Pukki) we have also invested in strikers in the past 5 years, you could argue they have done better business, but your comparing apples with a chicken balti when you look at the standing of the two clubs in recent times.
My point from the outset was comparing their striker in the OP which went back to 1997 and saying that since then we have made some equally good signings, as soon as I mentioned Pukki it went down a rabbit hole. |
Fair enough.
I do think though that their recruitment in general has been far better than ours in recent years, and that that’s not just down to a disparity in status, but a total lack of structure and investment at ITFC. | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 13:07 - Mar 17 with 1525 views | HARRY10 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 12:46 - Mar 17 by Pique |
Fair enough.
I do think though that their recruitment in general has been far better than ours in recent years, and that that’s not just down to a disparity in status, but a total lack of structure and investment at ITFC. |
I wonder how many of the loanees and others are signed because they are all that is available at the time.
Whereas we should be looking long term. Checking out the aptitude if players and how hungry they are for success.
We have signed plenty of 'characters' over the past few years but they will not win you much. It is the Matt Hollands who deliver. Those who see themselves as a professional, not some bloke out of a pub team who 'got lucky'.
Yesterday our leading goalscorer was absent due to being in court or D/D. Chopra, Taylor........
......are not the ones who put in the extra hours training and working on perceived weaknesses. If they don't want to work hard for themselves then don't be surprised when they don't want to work hard for the club | | | |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 13:18 - Mar 17 with 1489 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Fundamental problems at this club appear to be on 09:51 - Mar 17 by TieDyedIn95 |
I feel I must point out that David Johnson, Marcus Stewart and Darren Bent were all recruited over 20 years ago, with Kuqi more recently at 18 years and Murphy at 10. Hardly worth mentioning as good recruitments in the same time period as Pukki... |
I agree with this. Comparing Darren Bent, Marcus Stewart or David Johnson to Iwan Roberts, who was playing at the same time is laughable. Even Scowcroft or Armstrong offered more, even if their scoring wasn't as good. Even our midfielders used to contribute similar or more goals than Roberts (Miller for example)
More recently, of course, but then you could say that for pretty much every position we have recruited for compared to them, which is why we are in the third tier and they are top of the second tier. |  |
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