| LIV Golf tournament 20:09 - Jun 10 with 3367 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I was always an admirer of the postman, Poults and Lee Westwood. But this BBC interview shows that at the end of the day, it's only about the money. I hope that means they never play in the Ryder Cup again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/golf/61738171
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| LIV Golf tournament on 20:15 - Jun 10 with 2541 views | Ftnfwest |
I can sort of see the attraction in terms of the money alone for them and leftie, but for someone like Johnson it’s crazy. He was just realising his potential in terms of majors. Mind you, that’s going to be the next argument in terms of whether he plays in those or not. Has exemptions for a number of years for all of them, and for life of course with the masters. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 20:38 - Jun 10 with 2501 views | bluestandard |
I understand your point, buts it’s their career though! I mean surely none of us know what we would do until we were actually in that situation.
Personally I was f*%king annoyed by those questions that came from a Mirror journalist, The Mirror obviously being a fountain of morality as it has been for so many years. Ian Poulter should have answered the question with:-
'I think the answer to your question is on my private voicemail. I gather you'll have no trouble obtaining it from there'. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 21:07 - Jun 10 with 2445 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| LIV Golf tournament on 20:38 - Jun 10 by bluestandard |
I understand your point, buts it’s their career though! I mean surely none of us know what we would do until we were actually in that situation.
Personally I was f*%king annoyed by those questions that came from a Mirror journalist, The Mirror obviously being a fountain of morality as it has been for so many years. Ian Poulter should have answered the question with:-
'I think the answer to your question is on my private voicemail. I gather you'll have no trouble obtaining it from there'. |
I make you right that none of us knows for sure how we would act in a theoretical situation.
However, I would like to think that, if I was earning a very good salary that allowed me to live very comfortably and provide for my retirement, I would not choose to work for someone who represents important actions that I fundamentally oppose.
I cannot accept that these golfers should be doing this and I hope that it collapses (although it seems too far down the road now for that to happen). |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 21:26 - Jun 10 with 2416 views | bluestandard |
| LIV Golf tournament on 21:07 - Jun 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I make you right that none of us knows for sure how we would act in a theoretical situation.
However, I would like to think that, if I was earning a very good salary that allowed me to live very comfortably and provide for my retirement, I would not choose to work for someone who represents important actions that I fundamentally oppose.
I cannot accept that these golfers should be doing this and I hope that it collapses (although it seems too far down the road now for that to happen). |
I totally agree with the sentiment here, and there’s probably no one more annoyed than the golfers themselves that their ‘big opportunity’ is so tainted.
There are nuances to this. It’s not like an architect for example who might oppose working for a firm that designs Saudi buildings. He’s got so many more places he can go for work. Up to now there have only been 2 golf tours where you can earn serious money, and whilst it’s great when you’re winning you can lose you card just like that (think Paul Casey) and that’s your earning power gone. There is a great video on Rick Shield channel where he interviews James Robinson who is a fantastic golfer but couldn’t make ends meet whilst trying to get on one of the two big tours. He was on his way to a tournament and just had a meltdown, turned back round and quit the professional circuit.
There’s also the worry about jumping ship too late, which must be a concern to the top golfers. The last to switch will likely miss out big. | | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 21:30 - Jun 10 with 2407 views | Bugs |
| LIV Golf tournament on 20:38 - Jun 10 by bluestandard |
I understand your point, buts it’s their career though! I mean surely none of us know what we would do until we were actually in that situation.
Personally I was f*%king annoyed by those questions that came from a Mirror journalist, The Mirror obviously being a fountain of morality as it has been for so many years. Ian Poulter should have answered the question with:-
'I think the answer to your question is on my private voicemail. I gather you'll have no trouble obtaining it from there'. |
The Mirror may have hacked kids phones in the past, but they haven't murdered kids by deliberately bombing schools.
The questions they asked those two are completely legitimate and restrained from what could have been asked. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 22:00 - Jun 10 with 2356 views | bluestandard |
| LIV Golf tournament on 21:30 - Jun 10 by Bugs |
The Mirror may have hacked kids phones in the past, but they haven't murdered kids by deliberately bombing schools.
The questions they asked those two are completely legitimate and restrained from what could have been asked. |
Yes, and the golfers have committed NO crime. They are just making a career choice. They’ve all said that they don’t condone human rights violations, and to be pegged in that bracket imho is most unfair. I respect your view though 👠| | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 22:35 - Jun 10 with 2307 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| LIV Golf tournament on 22:00 - Jun 10 by bluestandard |
Yes, and the golfers have committed NO crime. They are just making a career choice. They’ve all said that they don’t condone human rights violations, and to be pegged in that bracket imho is most unfair. I respect your view though 👠|
They were asked about the human rights abuses that they don't condone and went very quiet. Either they are not well versed in them or they don't want to upset their new paymasters. Perhaps, if they are serious about opposing them, they should speak out.
Again, easy for me to to say when I am not sat in their shoes. | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 01:18 - Jun 11 with 2236 views | Bugs |
| LIV Golf tournament on 22:00 - Jun 10 by bluestandard |
Yes, and the golfers have committed NO crime. They are just making a career choice. They’ve all said that they don’t condone human rights violations, and to be pegged in that bracket imho is most unfair. I respect your view though 👠|
They are taking money from the same pot of funds that deliberately murders kids. How can you not see there is a moral judgment to be made?
If your kids were murdered by Saudi bombs*, would you want already incredibly wealthy golfers help the perpetrators wash their blood of their crimes by giving them the golfers even more money?
*made in the UK and US | | | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 06:46 - Jun 11 with 2129 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
The Saudis are using all these household names who have been loved and respected by the public for years to legitimise their corrupt and murderous regime. The more we see big sporting events, that attract adoring western fans in their millions, being run by Saudis, the more they appear "normal" and a part of mainstream modern culture. It's a cynical way to try and erode the condemnation of their regime. And as for the players themselves, these are multi-millionaires already. Westwood has a net worth of $ 40M, Poulter $60M.
If they were poor, and saw this as a way to become rich, it would at least be more understandable. But these are rich men, who are blinded by greed and have abandoned any moral principles. The same of course for the hosting of the World Cup. The difference is that players going to the World Cup finals had absolutely no say in where its hosted and are not going for the money. Nonetheless, it must be a very difficult decision for those with a strong moral compass. | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 07:13 - Jun 11 with 2094 views | Ely_Blue |
| LIV Golf tournament on 06:46 - Jun 11 by LegendofthePhoenix |
The Saudis are using all these household names who have been loved and respected by the public for years to legitimise their corrupt and murderous regime. The more we see big sporting events, that attract adoring western fans in their millions, being run by Saudis, the more they appear "normal" and a part of mainstream modern culture. It's a cynical way to try and erode the condemnation of their regime. And as for the players themselves, these are multi-millionaires already. Westwood has a net worth of $ 40M, Poulter $60M.
If they were poor, and saw this as a way to become rich, it would at least be more understandable. But these are rich men, who are blinded by greed and have abandoned any moral principles. The same of course for the hosting of the World Cup. The difference is that players going to the World Cup finals had absolutely no say in where its hosted and are not going for the money. Nonetheless, it must be a very difficult decision for those with a strong moral compass. |
It’s pure greed at the end of the day.
I’m not sure how many remember a certain Mr Kerry Packer and what he tried to do with cricket in the early 80s with the World Series, those guys who went there got banned too from regular competition and from playing for their country. It’s also not a lot different to the teams who wanted to form that European super league recently……… it’s all greed and about money, these guys have no moral compass |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 08:29 - Jun 11 with 1999 views | bluestandard |
| LIV Golf tournament on 01:18 - Jun 11 by Bugs |
They are taking money from the same pot of funds that deliberately murders kids. How can you not see there is a moral judgment to be made?
If your kids were murdered by Saudi bombs*, would you want already incredibly wealthy golfers help the perpetrators wash their blood of their crimes by giving them the golfers even more money?
*made in the UK and US |
Great debate on this by the way everyone. And I'm certainly not saying that these golfers should be completely free of criticism. I just think that the criticism is perhaps disproportionate, since they have had no involvement to the crimes of the Saudi regime.
To make this point more clearly Bugs, I do get that the LIV participants have made a moral judgement, perhaps the same kind of moral judgement that we all make everyday when we fill out cars up with fuel, some of which is imported from Saudi Arabia? Both these moral judgements sit on a sliding scale, and I don't like where the media are trying to place golfers on this scale. Greed isn't the same as condoning human rights violations.
Also, you make the good point that the UK and US are complicit in supplying arms to the Saudis. What does that say about participation on the PGA and European tours? How far do you go with all this? | | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 09:10 - Jun 11 with 1964 views | BlueForYou |
I have followed Golf & the professional game for 50 years. There have been many talked about breakaways, but none have ever come to fruition. Forget politics, the game is based upon hard work & achievement, slowly improving & testing yourself against others. New young players making a breakthough etc. The European Tour have the Main tour, Challenge tour, Legends tour, & there is the Euro Pro tour which helps young players get started. The PGA Tour has its Main Tour, KornFerry tour, Champions Tour, plus Canadian & Latin American tours. Then there is the booming Womens Professional game. Golf has never been so strong or accessible across the world. There have never been stronger opportunities.
LIV is a gimmick at the moment. A Greg Norman vendetta. I dont see why players would sacrifice their careers & standing, for these large sums of cash from a dubious background. LIV will become very repetitive with the same players every tournament. The PGA Tour/FedEx Cup finishes in early September, why dont LIV schedule their events from then into Jan/Feb? There would be room for them & perhaps they would be taken much more seriously, & a workaround could be found. That would make a lot of sense.
I think the European Tour will follow & ban those going to LIV & rightly so in my opinion. The Majors have yet to decide apart from the USPGA. Look forward to their reaction. Very disappointed in Westwood particularly, who I have followed & supported for many years. The players have made a poor morally wrong decision. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 10:31 - Jun 11 with 1898 views | Radlett_blue |
Poulter & Westwood are nearing the end of their competitive careers so banking some huge guaranteed money is clearly attractive. Both will have developed expensive lifestyles over the years & Westwood has been divorced, which will have halved his assets. Johnson is 38 & says he doesn't want to travel the world playing golf for the rest of it so why not take the guaranteed huge sum & play less often?
As far as the morality is concerned, the European Tour played an event in Saudi Arabia in 2019, 2020 & 2021. Was there huge objection to that? The Tour also has Dubai Ports as its main sponsor. |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 11:11 - Jun 11 with 1848 views | Churchman |
| LIV Golf tournament on 10:31 - Jun 11 by Radlett_blue |
Poulter & Westwood are nearing the end of their competitive careers so banking some huge guaranteed money is clearly attractive. Both will have developed expensive lifestyles over the years & Westwood has been divorced, which will have halved his assets. Johnson is 38 & says he doesn't want to travel the world playing golf for the rest of it so why not take the guaranteed huge sum & play less often?
As far as the morality is concerned, the European Tour played an event in Saudi Arabia in 2019, 2020 & 2021. Was there huge objection to that? The Tour also has Dubai Ports as its main sponsor. |
Poulter and Westwood have always been ‘money players’. Paid well for reaching the second rung of the ladder and good for them. Not a bad way to make yourself a multi millionaire. Dustin Johnson is different. He’s won two majors. He’s a winner in that sense. But he’s 38 and the game is getting ‘younger’. His point was that he has other interests other than golf and a family and this competition will give him a better lifestyle while not losing out financially. I can see his argument, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.
As for the tournament itself, I’m not keen on the Saudi dirty money aspect any more than I would be if I was a Newcastle or Man City fan, though the latter seem happy enough with the trophies rolling in. Better than scrambling out of the 1st division on a penalty shootout. But I know that the wealthy Saudis are an appalling bunch at any measure.
As for the new ideas and the tournament itself, I think that golf needs a good shake up and some new impetus. The fossilised blazers of the USPGA and R&A need some sort of challenge to their cosy privileged existence. No problem for them sucking up to Prince Andrew or doing as little as possible to further wider access to golf clubs. Women are still treated as an alien species in some. The racism aspect of Augusta is within living memory - somebody will have to tell me if it’s still there, but given the Augusta National is in Georgia, nothing would surprise me.
There is nothing wrong with retaining the Majors, just as they do in tennis, but like tennis since the 70s there is room for innovation and change. [Post edited 11 Jun 2022 11:11]
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| LIV Golf tournament on 22:02 - Jun 11 with 1673 views | Crawfordsboot |
If we think it through logically the European players on the PGA tour have all abandoned the European tour for the big bucks in the US. Indeed the PGA has used its financial muscle to keep the European in its place playing second fiddle to the PGA.
Keeping that in mind I find it hard to accept the criticism that theses players are selling out for the money. All professional athletes are entitled to ply their trade where they see fit.
We then need to consider the issue of using sport to sanitise regimes of which we in the west disapprove. Why should golfers be held to a higher standard than footballers, boxers or indeed our own goverment? We sell arms to the Saudis, the Goverment courts them, the Queen receives them but the outraged think it disgraceful that ageing golfers take their money.
Why don’t we start with picking over horse racing instead! |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 22:05 - Jun 11 with 1654 views | chicoazul |
| LIV Golf tournament on 06:46 - Jun 11 by LegendofthePhoenix |
The Saudis are using all these household names who have been loved and respected by the public for years to legitimise their corrupt and murderous regime. The more we see big sporting events, that attract adoring western fans in their millions, being run by Saudis, the more they appear "normal" and a part of mainstream modern culture. It's a cynical way to try and erode the condemnation of their regime. And as for the players themselves, these are multi-millionaires already. Westwood has a net worth of $ 40M, Poulter $60M.
If they were poor, and saw this as a way to become rich, it would at least be more understandable. But these are rich men, who are blinded by greed and have abandoned any moral principles. The same of course for the hosting of the World Cup. The difference is that players going to the World Cup finals had absolutely no say in where its hosted and are not going for the money. Nonetheless, it must be a very difficult decision for those with a strong moral compass. |
Very well said. |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 22:51 - Jun 11 with 1604 views | strikalite |
| LIV Golf tournament on 06:46 - Jun 11 by LegendofthePhoenix |
The Saudis are using all these household names who have been loved and respected by the public for years to legitimise their corrupt and murderous regime. The more we see big sporting events, that attract adoring western fans in their millions, being run by Saudis, the more they appear "normal" and a part of mainstream modern culture. It's a cynical way to try and erode the condemnation of their regime. And as for the players themselves, these are multi-millionaires already. Westwood has a net worth of $ 40M, Poulter $60M.
If they were poor, and saw this as a way to become rich, it would at least be more understandable. But these are rich men, who are blinded by greed and have abandoned any moral principles. The same of course for the hosting of the World Cup. The difference is that players going to the World Cup finals had absolutely no say in where its hosted and are not going for the money. Nonetheless, it must be a very difficult decision for those with a strong moral compass. |
Yep nothing but greed, Mickleson £200m, Johnson £150m....Woods turned down £700m!
Staggering sums of money.. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 00:11 - Jun 12 with 1536 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Incredible to think Tiger Woods turned down £750 MILLION just to play. His total career earnings as the GOAT are £161m and he was offered £750m just to play. It’s crazy money these lads are being offered to play.
DJ 180m to play for examples. Good luck to them. None of us would be able to turn down this sort of money no matter what the country does and how they act. |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 07:53 - Jun 12 with 1443 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| LIV Golf tournament on 00:11 - Jun 12 by The_Romford_Blue |
Incredible to think Tiger Woods turned down £750 MILLION just to play. His total career earnings as the GOAT are £161m and he was offered £750m just to play. It’s crazy money these lads are being offered to play.
DJ 180m to play for examples. Good luck to them. None of us would be able to turn down this sort of money no matter what the country does and how they act. |
Speak for yourself Rommy. | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 10:09 - Jun 12 with 1354 views | The_Romford_Blue |
You’re genuinely saying if they rang you now and offered you 300m to play golf for 3 days, you’d turn it down? I’m sorry but I don’t believe you. | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 10:22 - Jun 12 with 1306 views | bluelagos |
| LIV Golf tournament on 10:09 - Jun 12 by The_Romford_Blue |
You’re genuinely saying if they rang you now and offered you 300m to play golf for 3 days, you’d turn it down? I’m sorry but I don’t believe you. |
You (and others) are assuming that money is the be all and end all of people's decisions.
Have a read up on the rebel tours to Apartheid South Africa. Many cricketers (Ian Botham among others) turned down huge pay cheques for moral reasons.
I accept a lot of money is being offered. I accept it is easy to criticise from afar and none of know what we do unless we were in the position. But I don't accept the proposition that "We would all do the same" when clearly many haven't done the same. |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 10:25 - Jun 12 with 1301 views | J2BLUE |
| LIV Golf tournament on 10:09 - Jun 12 by The_Romford_Blue |
You’re genuinely saying if they rang you now and offered you 300m to play golf for 3 days, you’d turn it down? I’m sorry but I don’t believe you. |
I wouldn't but then again, i'm not worth $70m+.
It's a little strange to me that players are either rejecting it or taking the cash. Haven't heard one player say i'm already rich beyond anything I will ever need so i'm playing and giving the money to charity.
This is not good for golf. Unless the PGA back down the majors are going to be massively devalued. |  |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 10:43 - Jun 12 with 1283 views | jontysnut |
| LIV Golf tournament on 07:13 - Jun 11 by Ely_Blue |
It’s pure greed at the end of the day.
I’m not sure how many remember a certain Mr Kerry Packer and what he tried to do with cricket in the early 80s with the World Series, those guys who went there got banned too from regular competition and from playing for their country. It’s also not a lot different to the teams who wanted to form that European super league recently……… it’s all greed and about money, these guys have no moral compass |
I suppose the difference with Packer was that cricketers then generally got paid very little. For some of the West Indians in particular it was life changing amounts. The film/book Fire in Babylon describes players having tough choices about playing test match cricket for the WI or joining the ICC and securing their families' future. |  | | |
| LIV Golf tournament on 15:42 - Jun 12 with 1188 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| LIV Golf tournament on 10:09 - Jun 12 by The_Romford_Blue |
You’re genuinely saying if they rang you now and offered you 300m to play golf for 3 days, you’d turn it down? I’m sorry but I don’t believe you. |
I walked away from £3M 12 years ago, because my employer was corrupt. I had shares 3% of the shares in a business that had been subject to an offer of over £100M. I told the MD to shove it up where the sun doesn't shine. I didn't have another job to go to at the time. I have never regretted it. Compared to my own net worth at the time, it was around 10 times. So yes, I think I can safely say that I would absolutely stand my my principles and that being able to sleep at night because I made the right decision is more important to me than life changing amounts of money. | |
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| LIV Golf tournament on 15:45 - Jun 12 with 1182 views | J2BLUE |
| LIV Golf tournament on 15:42 - Jun 12 by LegendofthePhoenix |
I walked away from £3M 12 years ago, because my employer was corrupt. I had shares 3% of the shares in a business that had been subject to an offer of over £100M. I told the MD to shove it up where the sun doesn't shine. I didn't have another job to go to at the time. I have never regretted it. Compared to my own net worth at the time, it was around 10 times. So yes, I think I can safely say that I would absolutely stand my my principles and that being able to sleep at night because I made the right decision is more important to me than life changing amounts of money. |
I will never understand this.
You left your money with someone corrupt rather than taking it and donating it to a good cause? Why? | |
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