| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? 01:00 - Oct 6 with 3048 views | Ryorry |
Surely he deserves more than an OBE, a blue plaque, a few statues & institutes named after him? Given it's reckoned he shortened WW2 by 2 years, thereby saving 14 million lives.
(Post prompted by another cracking Weds night film, 'The Imitation Game', just finished on BBC1. Like 'Harriet' last week,it expanded on the life of a heroic individual with a lot of behind-the-scenes detail - I certainly hadn't known about the extent of the in-fighting at Bletchley Park, & devious collusions between a couple of its senior officers & other Govt. departments - assuming the film kept more or less in line with facts). |  |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 03:57 - Oct 6 with 2025 views | wkj |
Turing is definitely honoured in academic circles, as well as the face on the £50 note. Additionally, There is the Turing Award which is essentially the Nobel prize of computing with a $1,000,000US reward for outstanding contributions to computing.
The level of acclaim he receives amongst mathematicians and computer scientists is akin to that of the praise for Euclid and George Boole.
It is true that Turing was persecuted by the then Government, however, he did receive a pardon by the queen in 2013 as well as being the name of an important law that came in 2017, know as Turing's law.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thousands-officially-pardoned-under-turings-l
Given the broader view of what his name means for many thousands of people, I would say he has done pretty well for honours beyond what you've listed. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 3:58]
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 04:14 - Oct 6 with 2011 views | Ryorry |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 03:57 - Oct 6 by wkj |
Turing is definitely honoured in academic circles, as well as the face on the £50 note. Additionally, There is the Turing Award which is essentially the Nobel prize of computing with a $1,000,000US reward for outstanding contributions to computing.
The level of acclaim he receives amongst mathematicians and computer scientists is akin to that of the praise for Euclid and George Boole.
It is true that Turing was persecuted by the then Government, however, he did receive a pardon by the queen in 2013 as well as being the name of an important law that came in 2017, know as Turing's law.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thousands-officially-pardoned-under-turings-l
Given the broader view of what his name means for many thousands of people, I would say he has done pretty well for honours beyond what you've listed. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 3:58]
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Good grief, of all the posters I didn't expect to reply! but nice to see you back :)
I know he's received all those accolades, particularly from within the scinece community, & was pardoned by the late HM ElizabethII with 'Turing's Law' ensuing, but nevertheless still feel he's been very much overlooked for something much bigger, knighthood or similar. A shame it couldn't happen in his lifetime, but it just feels like the lack of any 'biggie' now is a sad under-rating still of the amazing service, at huge personal cost, he did for Britain & the world during WW2. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 4:44]
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 07:36 - Oct 6 with 1877 views | Churchman |
The Imitation Game is a cracking film. I don’t know how accurate it is, but I do know the work done at Bletchley Park was astonishing. They achieved the impossible. One of the most vital, ingenious elements to this was the mind blowing deception plans put in place to try and prevent the Germans from realising their codes had been broken and we were listening in. It’s a fascinating story. Bletchley P is well worth a visit or two if you’ve not been.
As for Turing, if Anyone deserves a statue on the spare plinth on Trafalgar Square, it’s him. Genius doesn’t cover it. He was treated appallingly after the war. It was a very different world then. Thank goodness we’ve moved on a little. |  | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:00 - Oct 6 with 1826 views | EdwardStone |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 07:36 - Oct 6 by Churchman |
The Imitation Game is a cracking film. I don’t know how accurate it is, but I do know the work done at Bletchley Park was astonishing. They achieved the impossible. One of the most vital, ingenious elements to this was the mind blowing deception plans put in place to try and prevent the Germans from realising their codes had been broken and we were listening in. It’s a fascinating story. Bletchley P is well worth a visit or two if you’ve not been.
As for Turing, if Anyone deserves a statue on the spare plinth on Trafalgar Square, it’s him. Genius doesn’t cover it. He was treated appallingly after the war. It was a very different world then. Thank goodness we’ve moved on a little. |
I fully second your recommendation to visit Bletchley Park, a fascinating way to spend a day.
The real genius was not breaking Enigma, but cracking the Lorenz codes.
My understanding is that Enigma codes were used for routine messages between military units "Tell Private Gunther to go to the dentist tomorrow at 10 am" "Please send more ammunition", that kind of thing
Whereas Lorenz was the strategic communications between Generals and Berlin.
Such was the efficiency of the Codebreakers, the Allies High Command would frequently see these messages before Hitler did....given his habit of lying abed until mid-morning.
Truly extraordinary |  | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:04 - Oct 6 with 1818 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
If anyone plans on going to MK Dons away I'd recommend getting there early and going round Bletchley Park, it's very good, not too far from the ground and you could (is subtle) sit in Alan Turings chair which inthink is a lot cooler than it sounds |  |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:07 - Oct 6 with 1812 views | StokieBlue |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 04:14 - Oct 6 by Ryorry |
Good grief, of all the posters I didn't expect to reply! but nice to see you back :)
I know he's received all those accolades, particularly from within the scinece community, & was pardoned by the late HM ElizabethII with 'Turing's Law' ensuing, but nevertheless still feel he's been very much overlooked for something much bigger, knighthood or similar. A shame it couldn't happen in his lifetime, but it just feels like the lack of any 'biggie' now is a sad under-rating still of the amazing service, at huge personal cost, he did for Britain & the world during WW2. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 4:44]
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He's pretty well recognised across both academic and non-academic areas of society. Unfortunately a lot of prizes and honours cannot be given posthumously. I think the fact that he is remembered by all and his achievements will be his forever are a fitting tribute and most of us can never hope to leave such a legacy.
The cracking of the Enigma code was an amazing achievement in which he was a very main character but it's also worth noting that he didn't do it all on his own, there were many other individuals who played a pivotal role in breaking the code. Over time it might even be said that his work in computer science is comparable in importance given the role computers now play in the lives of billions.
How he was treated by this country was appalling though and it's important that this has been highlighted and acknowledged.
SB |  | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:41 - Oct 6 with 1740 views | Churchman |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:00 - Oct 6 by EdwardStone |
I fully second your recommendation to visit Bletchley Park, a fascinating way to spend a day.
The real genius was not breaking Enigma, but cracking the Lorenz codes.
My understanding is that Enigma codes were used for routine messages between military units "Tell Private Gunther to go to the dentist tomorrow at 10 am" "Please send more ammunition", that kind of thing
Whereas Lorenz was the strategic communications between Generals and Berlin.
Such was the efficiency of the Codebreakers, the Allies High Command would frequently see these messages before Hitler did....given his habit of lying abed until mid-morning.
Truly extraordinary |
I’ve been a couple of times and will go again one day. I’ve read a fair bit about it too, but quite frankly am a bit too thick to understand it. Geniuses at work!
As SB points out, it was about more than just Turing. There were the people that built these machines, such as Flowers, the descriptors - those that were good at puzzles, mathematicians, all sorts. Then there were the people that backed it in the first place, the organisation that surrounded it. It’s management including what was shared and what was not. Astonishing doesn’t cover it.
Then there were the Germans. They just couldn’t conceive that their codes could ever be broken. Logic and number probability of millions to one meant Enigma was safe. Add a wheel as the navy did and that ends the risk. Err wrong. Add in poor discipline, especially in the Luftwaffe, the tendency for humans to work to a pattern and habit and the door was left open.
Did the code breakers shorten the war? Undoubtably. Knowing what your enemy is going to do, where and who they are, as well as understanding whether they’ve swallowed your deceptions, as the Germans did on DDay, gets you a long way down the road. | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:49 - Oct 6 with 1715 views | EdwardStone |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:41 - Oct 6 by Churchman |
I’ve been a couple of times and will go again one day. I’ve read a fair bit about it too, but quite frankly am a bit too thick to understand it. Geniuses at work!
As SB points out, it was about more than just Turing. There were the people that built these machines, such as Flowers, the descriptors - those that were good at puzzles, mathematicians, all sorts. Then there were the people that backed it in the first place, the organisation that surrounded it. It’s management including what was shared and what was not. Astonishing doesn’t cover it.
Then there were the Germans. They just couldn’t conceive that their codes could ever be broken. Logic and number probability of millions to one meant Enigma was safe. Add a wheel as the navy did and that ends the risk. Err wrong. Add in poor discipline, especially in the Luftwaffe, the tendency for humans to work to a pattern and habit and the door was left open.
Did the code breakers shorten the war? Undoubtably. Knowing what your enemy is going to do, where and who they are, as well as understanding whether they’ve swallowed your deceptions, as the Germans did on DDay, gets you a long way down the road. |
And all credit to the Polish codebreakers who started the work to unpick the secrets of Enigma
They got hold of an early version of the machine by.... going and buying it!
Before being adopted and then altered for the German military, Enigma was commercially avaiable.
The early version gave the Polish guys a clear direction to explore. They took this work to UK after Poland fell and thus gave Bletchley Park a huge understanding of where they needed to be going | | | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:53 - Oct 6 with 1711 views | Cotty |
I can assure you that he is exceptionally well recognised in academic mathematical circles (he says, a member of an institute named after him, sat in a building named after him, holding a fellowship named after him).
My step-grandfather worked closely with Turing on early computers at NPL, and used to visit him when Turing moved to Manchester, and used to go jogging with him. I'm pretty proud of that. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 9:04]
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 09:03 - Oct 6 with 1686 views | Churchman |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:53 - Oct 6 by Cotty |
I can assure you that he is exceptionally well recognised in academic mathematical circles (he says, a member of an institute named after him, sat in a building named after him, holding a fellowship named after him).
My step-grandfather worked closely with Turing on early computers at NPL, and used to visit him when Turing moved to Manchester, and used to go jogging with him. I'm pretty proud of that. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 9:04]
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That’s something to be very proud of. | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 09:57 - Oct 6 with 1594 views | chicoazul |
Films do tend to embellish and fabricate. |  |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 10:18 - Oct 6 with 1569 views | longtimefan |
He has a road named after him on grange Farm, Kesgrave. What higher accolade could there be  . More seriously there is also a monument dedicated to him and the other codebreakers also on Grange Farm.
https://www.kesgrave.org.uk/monument/ |  | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 10:23 - Oct 6 with 1555 views | leitrimblue |
He had a very famous shroud named after him |  | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:31 - Oct 6 with 1488 views | StokieBlue |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 09:57 - Oct 6 by chicoazul |
Films do tend to embellish and fabricate. |
Is that how you got drawn into thinking that the Unabomber was cool?
SB | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:44 - Oct 6 with 1450 views | blueasfook |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 03:57 - Oct 6 by wkj |
Turing is definitely honoured in academic circles, as well as the face on the £50 note. Additionally, There is the Turing Award which is essentially the Nobel prize of computing with a $1,000,000US reward for outstanding contributions to computing.
The level of acclaim he receives amongst mathematicians and computer scientists is akin to that of the praise for Euclid and George Boole.
It is true that Turing was persecuted by the then Government, however, he did receive a pardon by the queen in 2013 as well as being the name of an important law that came in 2017, know as Turing's law.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/thousands-officially-pardoned-under-turings-l
Given the broader view of what his name means for many thousands of people, I would say he has done pretty well for honours beyond what you've listed. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 3:58]
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True. His achievements have long been recognised in the field of computing.
I remember playing with Turing machines at university back in the 1990s.
I remember telling people at the time how under-recognised his achievements were! |  |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:52 - Oct 6 with 1421 views | Ryorry |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:07 - Oct 6 by StokieBlue |
He's pretty well recognised across both academic and non-academic areas of society. Unfortunately a lot of prizes and honours cannot be given posthumously. I think the fact that he is remembered by all and his achievements will be his forever are a fitting tribute and most of us can never hope to leave such a legacy.
The cracking of the Enigma code was an amazing achievement in which he was a very main character but it's also worth noting that he didn't do it all on his own, there were many other individuals who played a pivotal role in breaking the code. Over time it might even be said that his work in computer science is comparable in importance given the role computers now play in the lives of billions.
How he was treated by this country was appalling though and it's important that this has been highlighted and acknowledged.
SB |
Ah, didn't know that about honours not given posthumously, maybe explains it, thanks.
One of the bonuses of films like this (see my post on 'Harriet' last week) is that they do inspire you to go & do more research on the subject - I thought Wiki was pretty good on Turing - yes, breaking Enigma (and how the subsequent info was used) was v. much a collaborative, widespread effort -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
I'm hoping that those who gave him such grief at the time, particularly for his sexual orientation, were still alive when his immense achievements were at lat allowed to be recognised. | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:59 - Oct 6 with 1394 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:52 - Oct 6 by Ryorry |
Ah, didn't know that about honours not given posthumously, maybe explains it, thanks.
One of the bonuses of films like this (see my post on 'Harriet' last week) is that they do inspire you to go & do more research on the subject - I thought Wiki was pretty good on Turing - yes, breaking Enigma (and how the subsequent info was used) was v. much a collaborative, widespread effort -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
I'm hoping that those who gave him such grief at the time, particularly for his sexual orientation, were still alive when his immense achievements were at lat allowed to be recognised. |
The main reason honours are not given posthumously is you have a right to decline.
He may well have refused an honour, if one had been offered. |  |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:01 - Oct 6 with 1386 views | Churchman |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:44 - Oct 6 by blueasfook |
True. His achievements have long been recognised in the field of computing.
I remember playing with Turing machines at university back in the 1990s.
I remember telling people at the time how under-recognised his achievements were! |
The secrets of Ultra weren’t revealed until the 1970s and it took many years to understand and appreciate what happened, context and it’s impact. Given the numbers involved, it’s astonishing the secret was kept for so long. | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:06 - Oct 6 with 1383 views | Ryorry |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:53 - Oct 6 by Cotty |
I can assure you that he is exceptionally well recognised in academic mathematical circles (he says, a member of an institute named after him, sat in a building named after him, holding a fellowship named after him).
My step-grandfather worked closely with Turing on early computers at NPL, and used to visit him when Turing moved to Manchester, and used to go jogging with him. I'm pretty proud of that. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 9:04]
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As I said, I know he's "exceptionally well recognised in academic mathematical circles", I just felt he deserves a much more general & major honour (but Stokie explained posthumous awards might not be poss).
Wow, that is an illustrious claim to fame you have there, hat off to your step-grandpa! There was only one ref to Turing's running in the film (him pounding furiously along a country track to vent his frustration) but it was v. effective. He was pretty much Olympic standard as a marathon runner, & sometimes ran the 40 miles to London for meetings (as you probably know, but others might not).
So many tragic aspects of his life, from the death of his (seemingly only) schoolfriend, to his enforced chemical castration (🤬) & the lost silver. | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:13 - Oct 6 with 1371 views | Churchman |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 10:23 - Oct 6 by leitrimblue |
He had a very famous shroud named after him |
And of course Thatcher used him in a speech when she said ‘The lady is not for Turing’. | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:22 - Oct 6 with 1341 views | chicoazul |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:31 - Oct 6 by StokieBlue |
Is that how you got drawn into thinking that the Unabomber was cool?
SB |
Is that where you got your Karl Childers-tribute act from? | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:30 - Oct 6 with 1310 views | StokieBlue |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:22 - Oct 6 by chicoazul |
Is that where you got your Karl Childers-tribute act from? |
I had to look that up, I see you're as classy as always Chico:
"Sling Blade is a 1996 American drama film written and directed by Billy Bob Thornton, who also stars in the lead role. Set in Arkansas (filmed in Benton, Arkansas) the film tells the story of a man named Karl Childers who has an intellectual disability and is released from a psychiatric hospital, where he has lived since killing his mother and her lover when he was 12 years old"
Nice that you think I have a mental illness though whilst you go around glorifying murderers. You've totally lost it since your return, you're just a cretin now.
SB | | | |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:35 - Oct 6 with 1283 views | chicoazul |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:30 - Oct 6 by StokieBlue |
I had to look that up, I see you're as classy as always Chico:
"Sling Blade is a 1996 American drama film written and directed by Billy Bob Thornton, who also stars in the lead role. Set in Arkansas (filmed in Benton, Arkansas) the film tells the story of a man named Karl Childers who has an intellectual disability and is released from a psychiatric hospital, where he has lived since killing his mother and her lover when he was 12 years old"
Nice that you think I have a mental illness though whilst you go around glorifying murderers. You've totally lost it since your return, you're just a cretin now.
SB |
Clearly you don’t understand tribute act. Don’t you ever get tired of proving how thick you are? Don’t get me wrong I don’t want you to stop as I enjoy it so much. | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:40 - Oct 6 with 1275 views | Ryorry |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 11:59 - Oct 6 by Pinewoodblue |
The main reason honours are not given posthumously is you have a right to decline.
He may well have refused an honour, if one had been offered. |
Ah, right, can see that - thanks ðŸ‘
And quite possibly, yes, given the treatment meted out to him back in the day. At least some things in this world have moved on for the better. | |
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| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 12:42 - Oct 6 with 1270 views | FBI |
| Isn't it time Alan Turing was posthumously given a *major* award? on 08:04 - Oct 6 by BlueandTruesince82 |
If anyone plans on going to MK Dons away I'd recommend getting there early and going round Bletchley Park, it's very good, not too far from the ground and you could (is subtle) sit in Alan Turings chair which inthink is a lot cooler than it sounds |
Indeed. And, speaking as a (God help me) 20+ years' 'Museums professional', who judges everyting they visit, BP is superb.
Oh, and the cafe's good :-) |  |
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