| What happened to common sense... 09:16 - Jan 7 with 2787 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
How on earth do the authorities end up charging 15 year old under terrorism legislation?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/07/schoolgirl-who-faced-terror-char
"Charities say the case of a UK teenager who became the youngest girl to be charged with terror offences after online grooming by rightwing extremists should be a “wake-up call” about the online vulnerability of children.
Rhianan Rudd, who was 15 when charged, took her own life at a Nottinghamshire children’s home in May last year, when she was 16."
I'm not sure there's any coming back for society from the mess we have allowed to be created.
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| What happened to common sense... on 09:20 - Jan 7 with 2737 views | Swansea_Blue |
*cough* Shamima Begum *cough* |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 09:22 - Jan 7 with 2729 views | DJR |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:20 - Jan 7 by Swansea_Blue |
*cough* Shamima Begum *cough* |
I was going to post the same. |  | | |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:35 - Jan 7 with 2701 views | Mullet |
This isn't meant to sound horrible but a huge problem is the role of parents in filtering and gatekeeping internet access too. Not through malice but either ignorance or neglecting to monitor what children do online.
Andrew Tate has been getting lots of airtime now in the new term, and to be honest we'd probably not picked up on him sooner as staff. But kids who sit up all hours on their phones and the state of social media etc. means it is incredibly important their access is monitored.
When my boys are old enough, I dread to think what I'll be up against. But no phones in their rooms at night etc. seems like the minimum needed these days. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 09:49 - Jan 7 with 2635 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:20 - Jan 7 by Swansea_Blue |
*cough* Shamima Begum *cough* |
Absolutely! Her treatment should shame us all. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 09:59 - Jan 7 with 2594 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:35 - Jan 7 by Mullet |
This isn't meant to sound horrible but a huge problem is the role of parents in filtering and gatekeeping internet access too. Not through malice but either ignorance or neglecting to monitor what children do online.
Andrew Tate has been getting lots of airtime now in the new term, and to be honest we'd probably not picked up on him sooner as staff. But kids who sit up all hours on their phones and the state of social media etc. means it is incredibly important their access is monitored.
When my boys are old enough, I dread to think what I'll be up against. But no phones in their rooms at night etc. seems like the minimum needed these days. |
That's a very fair point but tbh I think it's impossible to regulate. Essentially the Internet is a thoroughly unhuman means of communication....I think that for the greater good there is a case for trying to stuff the social media genie back in the bottle. The harm outweighs the good. We can live better, fuller lives without it. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 10:04 - Jan 7 with 2566 views | Mullet |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:59 - Jan 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That's a very fair point but tbh I think it's impossible to regulate. Essentially the Internet is a thoroughly unhuman means of communication....I think that for the greater good there is a case for trying to stuff the social media genie back in the bottle. The harm outweighs the good. We can live better, fuller lives without it. |
I think the amount of kids I see who have been up til the early hours does temper that a little, as it is possible to ensure bedrooms are device free. You'd also be amazed the amount of parents who seem oblivious to the fact they can confiscate/regulate devices too!
However, I don't mean this to sound like some sort of blame-train, just that in general, the access being unlimited and "let them get on with it" approach is what multiplies the risk exponentially.
If you see the story of the 11 year old groomed via Spotify at one extreme of it being near impossible to stop, we also have parents that think coming to the gates kicking off/joining in on social media is the way to go!
I get that the most vulnerable years are the ones where kids want privacy and the space to learn lessons too so it's a hard thing to balance. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 10:07 - Jan 7 with 2544 views | brazil1982 |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:49 - Jan 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Absolutely! Her treatment should shame us all. |
It really shouldn't. |  | | |
| What happened to common sense... on 10:31 - Jan 7 with 2475 views | Darth_Koont |
| What happened to common sense... on 09:35 - Jan 7 by Mullet |
This isn't meant to sound horrible but a huge problem is the role of parents in filtering and gatekeeping internet access too. Not through malice but either ignorance or neglecting to monitor what children do online.
Andrew Tate has been getting lots of airtime now in the new term, and to be honest we'd probably not picked up on him sooner as staff. But kids who sit up all hours on their phones and the state of social media etc. means it is incredibly important their access is monitored.
When my boys are old enough, I dread to think what I'll be up against. But no phones in their rooms at night etc. seems like the minimum needed these days. |
Bit of a tangent so not a criticism at all but I feel the discussion tends to look in the wrong place when we start talking about the effects of living in the 21st century and put kids at the forefront of that discussion. And also in identifying the actual danger and threat to the younger generation, their development and their health, happiness and security.
The 2000s have certainly been a weird time with lots and lots of changes to society through the Internet, digitalization and automation.
But on the flip side, those who have grown up during it appear to be the most well-adjusted. Yes, there are new risks (extremism, hypersexualisation, abuse, mental health, physical health etc.) and parents/authorities need to be aware of them/minimize them but it’s the effect on the older generations that seems to be the most dangerous by far.
It’s no coincidence that the most politically and socio-economically basket case countries in the developed world (the UK and US) are English-speaking and their status in the world was already slipping as we enter this new world. They’re feeling the full force of a predominantly English-speaking internet and all the uncertainty, polarisation and radicalisation that involves.
We need a new perspective and we need to start looking forward. Because the supposedly adults’ inability to deal with the internet, society and the economy and all the issues that involves from education, health, housing, wages all the way to geo-political instability and climate change is having the biggest and worst effect on our kids of all.
After all, there are over 4 million kids living in poverty in the UK. Our blindness/unwillingness to tackle that shows that we just haven’t adjusted to the 21st century and the future. Instead the Internet (and a clickbaity media who can now crap out even more nonsense) has fueled a largely irrelevant clown show where real underlying issues and threats are buried even deeper. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 10:48 - Jan 7 with 2425 views | chicoazul |
| What happened to common sense... on 10:31 - Jan 7 by Darth_Koont |
Bit of a tangent so not a criticism at all but I feel the discussion tends to look in the wrong place when we start talking about the effects of living in the 21st century and put kids at the forefront of that discussion. And also in identifying the actual danger and threat to the younger generation, their development and their health, happiness and security.
The 2000s have certainly been a weird time with lots and lots of changes to society through the Internet, digitalization and automation.
But on the flip side, those who have grown up during it appear to be the most well-adjusted. Yes, there are new risks (extremism, hypersexualisation, abuse, mental health, physical health etc.) and parents/authorities need to be aware of them/minimize them but it’s the effect on the older generations that seems to be the most dangerous by far.
It’s no coincidence that the most politically and socio-economically basket case countries in the developed world (the UK and US) are English-speaking and their status in the world was already slipping as we enter this new world. They’re feeling the full force of a predominantly English-speaking internet and all the uncertainty, polarisation and radicalisation that involves.
We need a new perspective and we need to start looking forward. Because the supposedly adults’ inability to deal with the internet, society and the economy and all the issues that involves from education, health, housing, wages all the way to geo-political instability and climate change is having the biggest and worst effect on our kids of all.
After all, there are over 4 million kids living in poverty in the UK. Our blindness/unwillingness to tackle that shows that we just haven’t adjusted to the 21st century and the future. Instead the Internet (and a clickbaity media who can now crap out even more nonsense) has fueled a largely irrelevant clown show where real underlying issues and threats are buried even deeper. |
Once again I must disappoint you by whole heartedly agreeing with your post. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:03 - Jan 7 with 2396 views | Guthrum |
Because even a 15-year-old can learn how to build and plant a bomb. Or be persuaded to carry out an attack. Arrest and charges are a way of halting that process, of bringing them within the system. Taking them away from further influence, to an extent. Unfortunately, a referral to (overstretched and underfunded) social services is often not quick or effective.
When the mother is consorting with Aryan Brotherhood members (her former boyfriend), then all the online protections in the world are not going to shield the child from dangerous influences.
It's also related to mental healthcare in the UK. If Rhianan was Autistic, then specialist education may have helped. But nobody wants to be taxed to pay for such things.
It's all very well to blame the internet companies for not weeding out the proportionally low number of harmful pages among the vast sea of information online (pages which will just spring up anew somewhere else, like whack-a-mole), but some responsibility has to be taken at the "customer" end - as Mullet says, by parental supervision and instruction, plus by educational policymakers to include online awareness and self-protection in the curriculum. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:05]
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:07 - Jan 7 with 2362 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What happened to common sense... on 10:04 - Jan 7 by Mullet |
I think the amount of kids I see who have been up til the early hours does temper that a little, as it is possible to ensure bedrooms are device free. You'd also be amazed the amount of parents who seem oblivious to the fact they can confiscate/regulate devices too!
However, I don't mean this to sound like some sort of blame-train, just that in general, the access being unlimited and "let them get on with it" approach is what multiplies the risk exponentially.
If you see the story of the 11 year old groomed via Spotify at one extreme of it being near impossible to stop, we also have parents that think coming to the gates kicking off/joining in on social media is the way to go!
I get that the most vulnerable years are the ones where kids want privacy and the space to learn lessons too so it's a hard thing to balance. |
Indeed. One pair of tech-savvy parents I know have separate router for their kids running with parental controls and set on timers for an hour or two a day after school. It’s probably not beyond the white of most of us do do something similar. That’s at the extreme end, but I’m amazed how many of my kids’ friends have free rein on the internet with no controls whatsoever. And stupid late nights up playing games, etc. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:12 - Jan 7 with 2332 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:03 - Jan 7 by Guthrum |
Because even a 15-year-old can learn how to build and plant a bomb. Or be persuaded to carry out an attack. Arrest and charges are a way of halting that process, of bringing them within the system. Taking them away from further influence, to an extent. Unfortunately, a referral to (overstretched and underfunded) social services is often not quick or effective.
When the mother is consorting with Aryan Brotherhood members (her former boyfriend), then all the online protections in the world are not going to shield the child from dangerous influences.
It's also related to mental healthcare in the UK. If Rhianan was Autistic, then specialist education may have helped. But nobody wants to be taxed to pay for such things.
It's all very well to blame the internet companies for not weeding out the proportionally low number of harmful pages among the vast sea of information online (pages which will just spring up anew somewhere else, like whack-a-mole), but some responsibility has to be taken at the "customer" end - as Mullet says, by parental supervision and instruction, plus by educational policymakers to include online awareness and self-protection in the curriculum. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:05]
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I’m sure I saw The Aryan Brotherhood live at the NEC in 1993!
(Who?) | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:14 - Jan 7 with 2314 views | DanTheMan |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:07 - Jan 7 by Swansea_Blue |
Indeed. One pair of tech-savvy parents I know have separate router for their kids running with parental controls and set on timers for an hour or two a day after school. It’s probably not beyond the white of most of us do do something similar. That’s at the extreme end, but I’m amazed how many of my kids’ friends have free rein on the internet with no controls whatsoever. And stupid late nights up playing games, etc. |
A separate router is what I had in mind if / when the time comes and I decide to have kids, along with a lot of other controls. Thankfully it's all in my wheel house so I know how to set this stuff up.
I'm sure once kids get old enough they'll find a way around it (especially with mobile phones) but you can try and limit the damage until they are able to understand how easy it is to be radicalised online.
I've been banging this drum on here for like a decade, the likes of 8chan and other even worse places are targetting people, particularly the young, online to get them into dangerous ideologies. Children are dumb and can be manipulated easily, but it's very hard to get them out of that mindset once they are in it.
You start off with things like GamerGate, Andrew Tate, and other things that are "edgy" and dumb but it's all a gateway to much worse things.
Unfortunately, a lot of parents don't really understand the internet and so we end up with things like the above.
In this particular case, the BBC article is a bit more thorough and goes into other similar cases that have thankfully not ended as tragically.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63736944
In particular Bankster might be interested in this part
Convictions in the past two years include a Cornish boy who led his own online terror cell aged 14 and a boy from Darlington arrested aged 13.
Links for the lazy:
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55981119
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-60056108
People need to wake up. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:16]
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:29 - Jan 7 with 2235 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:14 - Jan 7 by DanTheMan |
A separate router is what I had in mind if / when the time comes and I decide to have kids, along with a lot of other controls. Thankfully it's all in my wheel house so I know how to set this stuff up.
I'm sure once kids get old enough they'll find a way around it (especially with mobile phones) but you can try and limit the damage until they are able to understand how easy it is to be radicalised online.
I've been banging this drum on here for like a decade, the likes of 8chan and other even worse places are targetting people, particularly the young, online to get them into dangerous ideologies. Children are dumb and can be manipulated easily, but it's very hard to get them out of that mindset once they are in it.
You start off with things like GamerGate, Andrew Tate, and other things that are "edgy" and dumb but it's all a gateway to much worse things.
Unfortunately, a lot of parents don't really understand the internet and so we end up with things like the above.
In this particular case, the BBC article is a bit more thorough and goes into other similar cases that have thankfully not ended as tragically.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63736944
In particular Bankster might be interested in this part
Convictions in the past two years include a Cornish boy who led his own online terror cell aged 14 and a boy from Darlington arrested aged 13.
Links for the lazy:
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55981119
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-60056108
People need to wake up. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:16]
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With phones it is simple to set time limits on usage and even particular apps. Android seems slightly better for this but Apple does it as well. That said lots of people are not tech savvy at all and don't realise. Many others aren't prepared to put limits on as they don't want an argument with their teenage kids. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:42 - Jan 7 with 2191 views | Darth_Koont |
| What happened to common sense... on 10:48 - Jan 7 by chicoazul |
Once again I must disappoint you by whole heartedly agreeing with your post. |
I’m gutted. 😀
I don’t agree with a lot of your views but stepping outside of the norm can at least offer some perspective and objectivity. It’s the people stuck in the consensus rut that are stopping things getting better.
Of course, there’s nothing wrong with consensus and that is the basis of a democracy. But in the UK the consensus isn’t formed by the people – it’s overwhelmingly shaped by a rather distant and self-serving political system and media. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 11:45 - Jan 7 with 2176 views | Swansea_Blue |
“ Activities: Murder, assault, drug trafficking, robbery, gambling, extortion, racketeering, arms trafficking, inmate prostitution, human trafficking, dog fighting”.
I think I’ll give them miss. I doubt I’d have the time or energy to fit all that in after work, the kids swimming, footie, etc. | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 12:01 - Jan 7 with 2122 views | bluelagos |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:03 - Jan 7 by Guthrum |
Because even a 15-year-old can learn how to build and plant a bomb. Or be persuaded to carry out an attack. Arrest and charges are a way of halting that process, of bringing them within the system. Taking them away from further influence, to an extent. Unfortunately, a referral to (overstretched and underfunded) social services is often not quick or effective.
When the mother is consorting with Aryan Brotherhood members (her former boyfriend), then all the online protections in the world are not going to shield the child from dangerous influences.
It's also related to mental healthcare in the UK. If Rhianan was Autistic, then specialist education may have helped. But nobody wants to be taxed to pay for such things.
It's all very well to blame the internet companies for not weeding out the proportionally low number of harmful pages among the vast sea of information online (pages which will just spring up anew somewhere else, like whack-a-mole), but some responsibility has to be taken at the "customer" end - as Mullet says, by parental supervision and instruction, plus by educational policymakers to include online awareness and self-protection in the curriculum. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:05]
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I'm not slow to point out when the police fck up but am with you here Guthers.
Seems to me that a vulnerable child got involved in some bad sh1t, but the police role is first to protect people. For me she clearly did some bad stuff, but the empathy we feel to her (as a victim to grooming by far right scum bags) is ultimately a mitigating factor rather than meaning she wasn't responsible for her actions.
It is for the justice system that should (and did) recognise she was a victim here. Should the police have quicker picked up her vulnerability? Easy to make a judgement from afar but none of us know the exact cicumstances and what they were presented with.
We expect our police to do far more than they are properly trained in, social work, child protection, these are very complex areas way beyond your average copper. (That's not a criticism, just reality)
Where it seems from the outside that things failed was that in having been apprehended and the charges then dropped, she sadly went on to commit suicide. Now without the facts, I don't see how anyhow can know whether she was let down or whether her suicide was always likely/inevitable or whether there were serious failings.
Presume a case review or similar will take place and best wait to see what it highlights. Questions aplenty, important ones too in terms of child protection, indoctrination, justice system etc. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 12:28 - Jan 7 with 2043 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:07 - Jan 7 by Swansea_Blue |
Indeed. One pair of tech-savvy parents I know have separate router for their kids running with parental controls and set on timers for an hour or two a day after school. It’s probably not beyond the white of most of us do do something similar. That’s at the extreme end, but I’m amazed how many of my kids’ friends have free rein on the internet with no controls whatsoever. And stupid late nights up playing games, etc. |
I completely failed as a parent in that respect.
As somebody who grew up in a world without social media and home computers I had no ideas what was available for my kids to access.
That said, I should have at least tried to gain some understanding. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 12:43]
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| What happened to common sense... on 12:30 - Jan 7 with 2032 views | Kropotkin123 |
| What happened to common sense... on 11:03 - Jan 7 by Guthrum |
Because even a 15-year-old can learn how to build and plant a bomb. Or be persuaded to carry out an attack. Arrest and charges are a way of halting that process, of bringing them within the system. Taking them away from further influence, to an extent. Unfortunately, a referral to (overstretched and underfunded) social services is often not quick or effective.
When the mother is consorting with Aryan Brotherhood members (her former boyfriend), then all the online protections in the world are not going to shield the child from dangerous influences.
It's also related to mental healthcare in the UK. If Rhianan was Autistic, then specialist education may have helped. But nobody wants to be taxed to pay for such things.
It's all very well to blame the internet companies for not weeding out the proportionally low number of harmful pages among the vast sea of information online (pages which will just spring up anew somewhere else, like whack-a-mole), but some responsibility has to be taken at the "customer" end - as Mullet says, by parental supervision and instruction, plus by educational policymakers to include online awareness and self-protection in the curriculum. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 11:05]
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It's not proportionally low. I went through a period of being spammed on YouTube Shorts by Russian propaganda and recently I been spammed by this Andrew Tate person and a few others. It is chucked at you in quite overwhelming volume and mixed in around content that you may actually enjoy. If you are on these sites/platforms it can be very intense and difficult to escape.
In this particular case I agree that it likely wouldn't have made a huge difference. But I wouldn't allow that to influence you against thinking there isn't a huge problem with the way tech companies' algorithms are set up and that tech companies could and should do more to address it. |  |
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| What happened to common sense... on 12:49 - Jan 7 with 1929 views | MattinLondon |
| What happened to common sense... on 12:28 - Jan 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I completely failed as a parent in that respect.
As somebody who grew up in a world without social media and home computers I had no ideas what was available for my kids to access.
That said, I should have at least tried to gain some understanding. [Post edited 7 Jan 2023 12:43]
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Failure is a very strong word. Technology moves so quickly that it’s extremely hard to keep up. Kids seem able to keep up much more quickly than a generation(s) who did not have technology so readily to access as kids themselves. |  | | |
| What happened to common sense... on 13:11 - Jan 7 with 1874 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What happened to common sense... on 12:49 - Jan 7 by MattinLondon |
Failure is a very strong word. Technology moves so quickly that it’s extremely hard to keep up. Kids seem able to keep up much more quickly than a generation(s) who did not have technology so readily to access as kids themselves. |
Yep.
Give yourself a break on this one GB.
All the Tory stuff....not so much  | |
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| What happened to common sense... on 13:36 - Jan 7 with 1758 views | WeWereZombies |
| What happened to common sense... on 10:31 - Jan 7 by Darth_Koont |
Bit of a tangent so not a criticism at all but I feel the discussion tends to look in the wrong place when we start talking about the effects of living in the 21st century and put kids at the forefront of that discussion. And also in identifying the actual danger and threat to the younger generation, their development and their health, happiness and security.
The 2000s have certainly been a weird time with lots and lots of changes to society through the Internet, digitalization and automation.
But on the flip side, those who have grown up during it appear to be the most well-adjusted. Yes, there are new risks (extremism, hypersexualisation, abuse, mental health, physical health etc.) and parents/authorities need to be aware of them/minimize them but it’s the effect on the older generations that seems to be the most dangerous by far.
It’s no coincidence that the most politically and socio-economically basket case countries in the developed world (the UK and US) are English-speaking and their status in the world was already slipping as we enter this new world. They’re feeling the full force of a predominantly English-speaking internet and all the uncertainty, polarisation and radicalisation that involves.
We need a new perspective and we need to start looking forward. Because the supposedly adults’ inability to deal with the internet, society and the economy and all the issues that involves from education, health, housing, wages all the way to geo-political instability and climate change is having the biggest and worst effect on our kids of all.
After all, there are over 4 million kids living in poverty in the UK. Our blindness/unwillingness to tackle that shows that we just haven’t adjusted to the 21st century and the future. Instead the Internet (and a clickbaity media who can now crap out even more nonsense) has fueled a largely irrelevant clown show where real underlying issues and threats are buried even deeper. |
'a predominantly English-speaking internet' - that's just the internet that you see, there is a slew of traffic in Spanish, Mandarin, Arabic, Russian...even French. |  |
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