| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? 15:45 - Jun 9 with 8259 views | Lord_Lucan |
How on earth is it going to happen in the timescale provided? |  |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:49 - Jun 9 with 3377 views | Darth_Koont |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:45 - Jun 9 by Luk38644 |
Yes, if Remainers wanted to stay in the EU, they would have voted Lib Dem or Green regardless of low chance areas. |
By that logic, if people wanted a hard Brexit they'd have voted UKIP. |  |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:53 - Jun 9 with 3370 views | Luk38644 |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:49 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
By that logic, if people wanted a hard Brexit they'd have voted UKIP. |
The Tories were promising 'hard' Brexit so voters saw UKIP as needless.
There was no 'remain' alternative other than the Lib Dems and Greens hence why I think Remainers would have voted in their droves for those two parties.
Both Labour and Conservative support Brexit, albeit on different levels, so surely Remainers rebelling wouldn't have been huge numbers of votes for both? |  | | |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 17:07 - Jun 9 with 3353 views | Darth_Koont |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:53 - Jun 9 by Luk38644 |
The Tories were promising 'hard' Brexit so voters saw UKIP as needless.
There was no 'remain' alternative other than the Lib Dems and Greens hence why I think Remainers would have voted in their droves for those two parties.
Both Labour and Conservative support Brexit, albeit on different levels, so surely Remainers rebelling wouldn't have been huge numbers of votes for both? |
But it was about the next 5 years with the expectation of Brexit going ahead regardless. If there was a Remain vote in the majority of constituencies it would have been for Labour to stop a UKIP/Tory backbench-inspired red, white and blue Brexit in its tracks.
The real fear for Remainers is that the Tories would make a bad situation a lot worse in the name of politics, ideology and sheer narrow-mindedness. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:08 - Jun 9 with 3323 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:20 - Jun 9 by Lord_Lucan |
It can, there is always wriggle room. As it stands we have a very short period of time to do a massively complicated deal in which all 27 other nations have to agree. You cannot do the impossible. If it became clear that any deal is going to be so counter productive to the nation it is feasible that there would need to be a second referendum to ask the country if they are prepared to go ahead with Brexit with the offer that is on the table. |
Delayed is sure possible but the article has been invoked, it will happen. |  | | |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:17 - Jun 9 with 3308 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:10 - Jun 9 by GlasgowBlue |
My Mrs reckons the terror attacks cost her.
All her friends were talking about the police cuts and she heard it on the radio every day.
We had a discussion last week about how it would effect the election and as I said to you then, the day of the Manchester attacks she performed the Uturn on social care.
As soon as the attacks happened she was never able to take control of the agenda again.
The final week was supposed to be all out campaigning on Brexit and then London happened. |
In hindsight, I agree. I thought at the time of Manchester, it had taken the pressure off her. |  |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:19 - Jun 9 with 3306 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:23 - Jun 9 by connorscontract |
A number of things cost her.
Skipping through the corn-fields was gobsmacking. I thought it was an over-dub when I first saw it.
Her lack of empathy and approachability.
Not having a costed manifesto.
Over-reliance on traditional media and failure to understand and engage younger voters.
Bottling the Leaders Debate.
Calling the Election at all: three years running of politics, two out of three not strictly necessary and inflicted on the public by Tories.
All of the above created an impression of her being out of touch and taking the public for granted.
Then you add in wider issues like Dementia Tax, and the U Turn which damaged her credibility, housing and a perception that austerity has gone beyond what was necessary.
And then the terror attacks. Corbyn didn't point score over Manchester. As you say May was a bit on the ropes at that point over policy. When the London attack happened, Corbyn carefully, and I think tastefully, made the point that May was the Home Secretary who cut Police. This dart landed.
Particular constituency results also point to the fact that Corbyn has energised the youth vote, especially Canterbury. He had worse than Kinnock's light-bulb thrown at him, but stood up to it all well. And he has won Social Media: the opinion formers like him.
The remarkable story of the Election is Davidson. Any possibility of the SNP losing Holyrood in the near future, and her mettle as a minister with responsibility rather than just a leader of the opposition, being tested? |
I'm sorry, skipping through the cornfields? What's that? | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:22 - Jun 9 with 3298 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:19 - Jun 9 by vapour_trail |
I'm sorry, skipping through the cornfields? What's that? |
I seem think I remember listening to some interview and they asked her what was the baddest thing she has ever done and she replied skipping in cornfields as a youngster and that the farmers were furious. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:23 - Jun 9 with 3296 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 17:07 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
But it was about the next 5 years with the expectation of Brexit going ahead regardless. If there was a Remain vote in the majority of constituencies it would have been for Labour to stop a UKIP/Tory backbench-inspired red, white and blue Brexit in its tracks.
The real fear for Remainers is that the Tories would make a bad situation a lot worse in the name of politics, ideology and sheer narrow-mindedness. |
I make Luke correct. Most remainers accept the need to leave. I don't think people voted labour to avoid hard Brexit, labour never promised such an option, lib dems and green were the only one especially who offered the alternative.
That said, speaking as someone who would prefer the softest of Brexit, I voted labour as the party most likely to challenge the tories in my constituency. Not motivated by Brexit though. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:25 - Jun 9 with 3292 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:22 - Jun 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I seem think I remember listening to some interview and they asked her what was the baddest thing she has ever done and she replied skipping in cornfields as a youngster and that the farmers were furious. |
Heh, rude girl.
For a minute I thought I'd missed some video clip to rival Kinnock going arse over tit on the beach. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:31 - Jun 9 with 3284 views | Darth_Koont |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:23 - Jun 9 by vapour_trail |
I make Luke correct. Most remainers accept the need to leave. I don't think people voted labour to avoid hard Brexit, labour never promised such an option, lib dems and green were the only one especially who offered the alternative.
That said, speaking as someone who would prefer the softest of Brexit, I voted labour as the party most likely to challenge the tories in my constituency. Not motivated by Brexit though. |
Sure but I don't buy the logic that this was a Brexit campaign. Especially in seats where a LibDem or Green vote was ultimately going to be a wasted vote.
It was about Brexit, security, NHS, education, nuclear defence, foreign policy, human rights, economy (both private and national), immigration etc. Obviously many of these feed into Brexit but I don't think many Remainers saw reversing Brexit as even a possibility with a substantial, but electorally meaningless protest vote. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:33 - Jun 9 with 3275 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:31 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
Sure but I don't buy the logic that this was a Brexit campaign. Especially in seats where a LibDem or Green vote was ultimately going to be a wasted vote.
It was about Brexit, security, NHS, education, nuclear defence, foreign policy, human rights, economy (both private and national), immigration etc. Obviously many of these feed into Brexit but I don't think many Remainers saw reversing Brexit as even a possibility with a substantial, but electorally meaningless protest vote. |
It was tory strategy to make it a Brexit campaign, but they failed to do so. That was the reason she gave for putting the country through it.
Labour, to their credit, owned the narrative. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:36 - Jun 9 with 3267 views | Darth_Koont |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:33 - Jun 9 by vapour_trail |
It was tory strategy to make it a Brexit campaign, but they failed to do so. That was the reason she gave for putting the country through it.
Labour, to their credit, owned the narrative. |
Agreed. So not sure where Luke's conclusion comes from.
On a related note, people do seem to read a lot into voting nowadays - the "clear mandate" for a hard Brexit being one of them. At best, you can argue a link or trend but you still need to connect that to other polling data/surveys about specific issues. | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:56 - Jun 9 with 3249 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 18:36 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed. So not sure where Luke's conclusion comes from.
On a related note, people do seem to read a lot into voting nowadays - the "clear mandate" for a hard Brexit being one of them. At best, you can argue a link or trend but you still need to connect that to other polling data/surveys about specific issues. |
Very few would have made the decision who to vote for on one issue but on a package of issues. Labour had a manifesto that had enough in it to appeal to younger and traditional labour voters irrespective of their views on Brexit. They accepted the Labour argument that Brexit was going to happen but it had to be on the best possible terms, not at any cost. |  |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 19:11 - Jun 9 with 3239 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:05 - Jun 9 by ElderGrizzly |
CIL doesn't! |
Well, you got that right.
It was NEVER going to happen, and I haven't moved on that view since way before the vote.
If it does somehow happen, other countries will leave at the same time and the whole European adventure will come to an end - if that is the case, and it's unlikely in my opinion , there won't be an EU that exists without Britain, there'll be no EU to speak of.
Source: my own views. I have not seen/heard anyone ever express this view. [Post edited 9 Jun 2017 19:23]
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 10:52 - Jun 10 with 3173 views | Herbivore |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:45 - Jun 9 by Luk38644 |
Yes, if Remainers wanted to stay in the EU, they would have voted Lib Dem or Green regardless of low chance areas. |
I'm a remainer and I can tell you that you're wrong. |  |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 11:32 - Jun 10 with 3157 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 16:23 - Jun 9 by connorscontract |
A number of things cost her.
Skipping through the corn-fields was gobsmacking. I thought it was an over-dub when I first saw it.
Her lack of empathy and approachability.
Not having a costed manifesto.
Over-reliance on traditional media and failure to understand and engage younger voters.
Bottling the Leaders Debate.
Calling the Election at all: three years running of politics, two out of three not strictly necessary and inflicted on the public by Tories.
All of the above created an impression of her being out of touch and taking the public for granted.
Then you add in wider issues like Dementia Tax, and the U Turn which damaged her credibility, housing and a perception that austerity has gone beyond what was necessary.
And then the terror attacks. Corbyn didn't point score over Manchester. As you say May was a bit on the ropes at that point over policy. When the London attack happened, Corbyn carefully, and I think tastefully, made the point that May was the Home Secretary who cut Police. This dart landed.
Particular constituency results also point to the fact that Corbyn has energised the youth vote, especially Canterbury. He had worse than Kinnock's light-bulb thrown at him, but stood up to it all well. And he has won Social Media: the opinion formers like him.
The remarkable story of the Election is Davidson. Any possibility of the SNP losing Holyrood in the near future, and her mettle as a minister with responsibility rather than just a leader of the opposition, being tested? |
Telegraph reporting today that Davidson is planning to take her Scottish Tories independent of the main party. They would use their votes in parliament to try to ensure a Norway-type Brexit deal. Pro single market and pro open immigration from EU. I
It is clear already that May now has no majority support for her Brexit approach. But I am not sure she cares, and am equally unsure how parliament can impose their will.
But it does suggest that the negotiations will be even more fascinating than I expected, as Barnier's team will be well aware that May's appointees may not have the authority they claim. [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 11:33]
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 11:34 - Jun 10 with 3149 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 11:32 - Jun 10 by Freddies_Ears |
Telegraph reporting today that Davidson is planning to take her Scottish Tories independent of the main party. They would use their votes in parliament to try to ensure a Norway-type Brexit deal. Pro single market and pro open immigration from EU. I
It is clear already that May now has no majority support for her Brexit approach. But I am not sure she cares, and am equally unsure how parliament can impose their will.
But it does suggest that the negotiations will be even more fascinating than I expected, as Barnier's team will be well aware that May's appointees may not have the authority they claim. [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 11:33]
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Can she do that? | |
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| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 11:43 - Jun 10 with 3141 views | vapour_trail |
| Does anyone think that it is possible that Brexit just won't happen? on 11:34 - Jun 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Can she do that? |
She has tweeted this morning that the telegraph story is "boIIocks" | |
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