| Jon Venables... on 13:48 - Nov 24 with 6690 views | FifeITFC |
| Jon Venables... on 12:28 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
It's a tough one. I agree that perhaps there comes a point where someone of Venables' ilk has to be deprived of their liberty permanently both for his safety, and that of the public at large.
With the circumstances of the case, though, I think there has to be a case for leniency and understanding (perhaps not the most appropriate words, but the best I can come up with for now).
For two boys of age ten to do what Venables and Thompson did has to suggest that there were serious psychological issues at play, be it issues they were born with, or that manifested themselves at a later date perhaps as a result of upbringing.
Whilst there's no condoning their actions, or mitigating the severity of what they did, is it fair and reasonable to 'throw Venables to the baying mob' perhaps solely because of urges, ideas, and beliefs that he has no control over? Regardless of psychiatric reports, I cannot believe that anyone who carries out such actions is 'wired up properly'. |
Whilst I have no sympathy at all for Venables, even less so that he's continued to abuse the chances he's been given, I find it hard to believe he was "born that way". Can't help thinking there must have been something that was in his upbringing but his parents/guardians that must have come into play.
Sick individual who should never have been given another identity after he blew the chance he already had. But other than being permanently, and I do mean permanently, locked up, I can't think of a suitable punishment. |  |
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| Jon Venables... on 14:33 - Nov 24 with 6648 views | Superfrans |
| Jon Venables... on 12:28 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
It's a tough one. I agree that perhaps there comes a point where someone of Venables' ilk has to be deprived of their liberty permanently both for his safety, and that of the public at large.
With the circumstances of the case, though, I think there has to be a case for leniency and understanding (perhaps not the most appropriate words, but the best I can come up with for now).
For two boys of age ten to do what Venables and Thompson did has to suggest that there were serious psychological issues at play, be it issues they were born with, or that manifested themselves at a later date perhaps as a result of upbringing.
Whilst there's no condoning their actions, or mitigating the severity of what they did, is it fair and reasonable to 'throw Venables to the baying mob' perhaps solely because of urges, ideas, and beliefs that he has no control over? Regardless of psychiatric reports, I cannot believe that anyone who carries out such actions is 'wired up properly'. |
I agree to an extent. Deciding on the future of a child aged 10 doesn't sit well with me, whatever they have done. Clearly, Venables and Thompson were extremely damaged individuals to do that they did. But you have to believe there must be some hope of rehabilitation for a child of that age if we believe the criminal justice system has any merit.
That said, someone who has breached his parole conditions twice, especially in the way he has, indicates that he has become an adult who may well be beyond help and that society should simply be protected from him in future. |  |
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| Jon Venables... on 17:27 - Nov 25 with 6564 views | Crawfordsboot |
Does no one think that the situation reflects badly on how we (our society - so yes we) have treated this individual. As a young child he committed an offence that was horrendous, but of which he can only have had a limited understanding. He has been in our society's rehabilitation system from the age of 10 and clearly it has failed him, and us, miserably.
So spare me the lock him up, throw away the key, hang draw and quarter comments. How about complaining about the sheer inadequacy of our treatment of a ten year old child and our prison/ rehabilitation system. |  | | |
| Jon Venables... on 17:46 - Nov 25 with 6533 views | jeera |
| Jon Venables... on 17:27 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
Does no one think that the situation reflects badly on how we (our society - so yes we) have treated this individual. As a young child he committed an offence that was horrendous, but of which he can only have had a limited understanding. He has been in our society's rehabilitation system from the age of 10 and clearly it has failed him, and us, miserably.
So spare me the lock him up, throw away the key, hang draw and quarter comments. How about complaining about the sheer inadequacy of our treatment of a ten year old child and our prison/ rehabilitation system. |
Although I empathise with your sentiments, he has shown far too much of the wrong kind of interest in children as an adult, which means he is more than a potential danger to them even now.
Whether it's the system to blame, or whether he is one of those types who appear to be born evil, it is in the public interest for him to be kept away from society altogether. [Post edited 25 Nov 2017 17:55]
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| Jon Venables... on 17:50 - Nov 25 with 6524 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 17:46 - Nov 25 by jeera |
Although I empathise with your sentiments, he has shown far too much of the wrong kind of interest in children as an adult, which means he is more than a potential danger to them even now.
Whether it's the system to blame, or whether he is one of those types who appear to be born evil, it is in the public interest for him to be kept away from society altogether. [Post edited 25 Nov 2017 17:55]
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Are children born evil, or are they brutalized by their environment?
I think environment. | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 17:50 - Nov 25 with 6521 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jon Venables... on 17:27 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
Does no one think that the situation reflects badly on how we (our society - so yes we) have treated this individual. As a young child he committed an offence that was horrendous, but of which he can only have had a limited understanding. He has been in our society's rehabilitation system from the age of 10 and clearly it has failed him, and us, miserably.
So spare me the lock him up, throw away the key, hang draw and quarter comments. How about complaining about the sheer inadequacy of our treatment of a ten year old child and our prison/ rehabilitation system. |
I’m not a fan of the death penalty and I am all for second chances and rehabilitation but I just shake my head in disbelief when I keep re reading your post. |  |
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| Jon Venables... on 17:52 - Nov 25 with 6521 views | jeera |
| Jon Venables... on 17:50 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
Are children born evil, or are they brutalized by their environment?
I think environment. |
But either way. In this case it is now irrelevant.
He is still showing an unhealthy interest in children at the age of 35, so cannot be allowed to destroy more lives. | |
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| Jon Venables... on 17:53 - Nov 25 with 6519 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 17:50 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I’m not a fan of the death penalty and I am all for second chances and rehabilitation but I just shake my head in disbelief when I keep re reading your post. |
What bit of my observation do you disagree with? | | | |
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| Jon Venables... on 17:56 - Nov 25 with 6508 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jon Venables... on 17:53 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
What bit of my observation do you disagree with? |
That society failed him. | |
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| Jon Venables... on 17:57 - Nov 25 with 6510 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 17:52 - Nov 25 by jeera |
But either way. In this case it is now irrelevant.
He is still showing an unhealthy interest in children at the age of 35, so cannot be allowed to destroy more lives. |
Yes I agree with you - there is no alternative now, but instead of blaming a child as evil etc as many posts appear to do I was simply reflecting on the inadequacy of our prison system.
This is a real and continuing scandal | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 18:03 - Nov 25 with 6504 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 17:56 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
That society failed him. |
Society took on the responsibility and care of a ten year old child. The outcome has to be seen as a failure. | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 18:06 - Nov 25 with 6493 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jon Venables... on 18:03 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
Society took on the responsibility and care of a ten year old child. The outcome has to be seen as a failure. |
You think society is to blame for not changing him from an evil kiddie murdering scumbag into a model citizen? |  |
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| Jon Venables... on 18:09 - Nov 25 with 6488 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jon Venables... on 18:06 - Nov 25 by GlasgowBlue |
You think society is to blame for not changing him from an evil kiddie murdering scumbag into a model citizen? |
Yes I think he does. I’m Mx out of here. | |
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| Jon Venables... on 18:11 - Nov 25 with 6489 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 18:06 - Nov 25 by GlasgowBlue |
You think society is to blame for not changing him from an evil kiddie murdering scumbag into a model citizen? |
You think a ten year old child is an “evil kiddie murdering scumbag” - I despair!
At what age do you allocate absolute responsibility to a child- if not 10, then 8, or perhaps 6, can a four year old qualify? | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 18:21 - Nov 25 with 6471 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jon Venables... on 18:11 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
You think a ten year old child is an “evil kiddie murdering scumbag” - I despair!
At what age do you allocate absolute responsibility to a child- if not 10, then 8, or perhaps 6, can a four year old qualify? |
Yes I do. I have brought up five children, one of who is ten years old right now. All of them at that age would have known that it is pure evil to abduct a three year old child from their carer, then torture and murder them.
As much as I love my kids, if any of them were capable of carrying out the sick attack that Venables did I would want them removed from society forever.
Do you mind me asking, do you have any children yourself? | |
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| Jon Venables... on 18:47 - Nov 25 with 6452 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 18:21 - Nov 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes I do. I have brought up five children, one of who is ten years old right now. All of them at that age would have known that it is pure evil to abduct a three year old child from their carer, then torture and murder them.
As much as I love my kids, if any of them were capable of carrying out the sick attack that Venables did I would want them removed from society forever.
Do you mind me asking, do you have any children yourself? |
I do have two children and no I don’t mind you asking.
The thought that you would want a six year old, even your own, put away forever for an evil act is scary.
I’m out of here. | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 19:08 - Nov 25 with 6426 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jon Venables... on 18:47 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
I do have two children and no I don’t mind you asking.
The thought that you would want a six year old, even your own, put away forever for an evil act is scary.
I’m out of here. |
I did say ten years old. That's me 'til Monday. | |
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| Jon Venables... on 19:15 - Nov 25 with 6419 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Jon Venables... on 19:08 - Nov 25 by GlasgowBlue |
I did say ten years old. That's me 'til Monday. |
I think that if you check you will see that you said “if any of them”
Perhaps we need to agree to just let it go
Goodnight | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 01:33 - Nov 26 with 6332 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jon Venables... on 19:15 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
I think that if you check you will see that you said “if any of them”
Perhaps we need to agree to just let it go
Goodnight |
The fact that you are being pedantic about this just reinforces my opinion that you are a bit touched. You seem to be arguing that the system let the bloke down. I don’t buy that for a moment and I am shocked that you think it did.
What do you think we could ever have achieved with the lad, I presume you actually know what they did to that poor kid? | |
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| Jon Venables... on 08:19 - Nov 26 with 6269 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jon Venables... on 19:15 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
I think that if you check you will see that you said “if any of them”
Perhaps we need to agree to just let it go
Goodnight |
“one of who is ten years old right now. All of them at that age would have known that it is pure evil to abduct a three year old child from their carer, then torture and murder them”.
I specifically referred to the age Venables was when he carried out that vile murder. | |
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| Jon Venables... on 08:32 - Nov 26 with 6258 views | Benters |
| Jon Venables... on 14:24 - Nov 23 by itfcjoe |
He should be put down, even now reading the details of Jamie Bulger case is chilling |
He should be bloody hung the arsehole. |  |
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| Jon Venables... on 11:05 - Nov 26 with 6214 views | No9 |
| Jon Venables... on 12:23 - Nov 24 by baxterbasics |
yes obviously I know this, just venting. |
Not thinking more like |  | | |
| Jon Venables... on 11:32 - Nov 26 with 6202 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Jon Venables... on 13:48 - Nov 24 by FifeITFC |
Whilst I have no sympathy at all for Venables, even less so that he's continued to abuse the chances he's been given, I find it hard to believe he was "born that way". Can't help thinking there must have been something that was in his upbringing but his parents/guardians that must have come into play.
Sick individual who should never have been given another identity after he blew the chance he already had. But other than being permanently, and I do mean permanently, locked up, I can't think of a suitable punishment. |
I think the part I struggle with is that there were two of them. The chances of two kids being born with such evil and depravity in them in the same area, going to the same school and being friends is hard to comprehend or believe. | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 11:46 - Nov 26 with 6183 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Jon Venables... on 18:21 - Nov 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes I do. I have brought up five children, one of who is ten years old right now. All of them at that age would have known that it is pure evil to abduct a three year old child from their carer, then torture and murder them.
As much as I love my kids, if any of them were capable of carrying out the sick attack that Venables did I would want them removed from society forever.
Do you mind me asking, do you have any children yourself? |
Isn't the point here that you've brought them up to know that? And thankfully so are 99.99% of other children. I don't know the facts surrounding what investigation went into their upbringing and home life but it's hard to believe the pair of them had model upbringings and were born with an absolute outright disposition for evil. | | | |
| Jon Venables... on 12:24 - Nov 26 with 6572 views | Ryorry |
| Jon Venables... on 17:46 - Nov 25 by jeera |
Although I empathise with your sentiments, he has shown far too much of the wrong kind of interest in children as an adult, which means he is more than a potential danger to them even now.
Whether it's the system to blame, or whether he is one of those types who appear to be born evil, it is in the public interest for him to be kept away from society altogether. [Post edited 25 Nov 2017 17:55]
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I don't think there's any disagreement here re him being banged up for the rest of his natural without parole - in the interests of protecting society & himself.
Massive, complex subject re nature/nurture. I think many people may have a seed, or half-seed of evil within them - you've only got to read the studies of what some people will do when instructed to inflict pain, eg https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html or http://www.newsweek.com/new-milgram-experiments-same-results-569103
or look at what big business s-m sex is. The pain/pleasure buttons are pretty closely entwined biologically, from what I read a long time ago on my social work course. For the vast majority it's consenting & not real harm.
However, the way the latent seeds develop I think probably does depend on childrens' environment - some will receive the right 'steer', with good guidance, good education, and good mentors within a stable environment. Others, who get in with 'the wrong crowd' or wrong individuals who aren't inhibited in expressing their predilections, would be more likely to be directed onto the wrong track, sort of like the way points work on railway tracks -
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