| Theresa defeated.... 19:30 - Dec 13 with 40321 views | ElderGrizzly |
Whoops :)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit-rebels-inflict-majo
Theresa May has lost a Brexit vote in the Commons for the first time.
MPs voted to back the Dominic Grieve amendment by 309 votes to 305 - a majority of four.
The amendment will curb some of the powers the government is giving itself in the EU withdrawal bill. Specifically, it means that although clause 9 of the bill gives ministers powers to implement the Brexit withdrawal agreement by order, the amendment that has been passed means says they can only exercise these powers “subject to the prior enactment of a statute by parliament approving the final terms of withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union.”
Opposition MPs also claim the amendment gives parliament a “meaningful vote” on the withdrawal agreement. This is contested because ministers say parliament is already going to get a meaningful vote. But what it will mean is that ministers will not be able to use the powers in clause 9 to implement the EU withdrawal bill by order until the Commons has passed the bill allowing this. See
Around a dozen Tory MPs rebelled, according to Labour. [Post edited 13 Dec 2017 19:33]
|  | | |  |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:19 - Dec 14 with 5487 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:11 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
OK. So now debate my reply. You have expressed very similar sentiments on here before. I know why you wont. Because you just aren't up to it. Intellectual pygmy.
Sorry Phil, I'll take a yellow or red. Trawl my history and you will rarely find personal remarks. But this guy is somebody who lives in an echo chamber and does not have the ability to debate. |
What specifically would you like me to respond to? It was a long post expressing your views, lots of people post long posts expressing their views and I don't respond to all of them. If there's something in particular you'd like me to respond to then I'm happy to do so. |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:21 - Dec 14 with 5479 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:11 - Dec 14 by brogansnose |
If you want it to come across as tongue in cheek then make sure that it does come over as just that. As it sits on the page it reads as an insult.
'Dry your eyes'. You really don't help yourself when you want to have a debate or get a point over do you. |
I clarified a few posts later that it was not meant seriously.
If people are going to have a direct pop at me, I'll have a pop back. I don't think that's unreasonable. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:22 - Dec 14 with 5473 views | SpruceMoose |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:21 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
I clarified a few posts later that it was not meant seriously.
If people are going to have a direct pop at me, I'll have a pop back. I don't think that's unreasonable. |
Not according to the forum police.
 |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:23 - Dec 14 with 5465 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:22 - Dec 14 by SpruceMoose |
Not according to the forum police.
|
It seems some posters are fair game for being dug out, others are not. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:28 - Dec 14 with 5447 views | powinswitch |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:19 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
What specifically would you like me to respond to? It was a long post expressing your views, lots of people post long posts expressing their views and I don't respond to all of them. If there's something in particular you'd like me to respond to then I'm happy to do so. |
How about 'The vast majority of the immigrants who have come to this countr6 have been and are awesome. How lucky are we to have had such hard working people come here and contribute. I think people worry because they wonder where it ends, and simply want somebody to be in a position to control numbers. For EU immigration that is not possible. Personally I also have a problem with how our welfare system has developed. That is a welfare system that my widowed mum benefitted from when I was at school in the 70s, so I am extremely grateful and have personal experience of its power.
We have particularly welcomed many immigrants in the last 15 years or so, and have record numbers in employment. But there is a great swathe of generally working class British born, of all colours, who have been left behind. Perhaps because the hard working immigrants are willing to do hard, difficult jobs for meagre pay, while the disaffected pick up their benefit. The benefits system, allied to the uncontrolled immigration has created a massive problem'.
This is one area of concern for many people. Most of them are not racist. Some are thick - I suspect I may be. So all I ask is that you argue your case. You know in a mature way without recourse to pejoratives. |  | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:30 - Dec 14 with 5439 views | m14_blue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:11 - Dec 14 by brogansnose |
If you want it to come across as tongue in cheek then make sure that it does come over as just that. As it sits on the page it reads as an insult.
'Dry your eyes'. You really don't help yourself when you want to have a debate or get a point over do you. |
I thought it was fairly obviously tongue in cheek to be fair. | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:43 - Dec 14 with 5403 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:28 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
How about 'The vast majority of the immigrants who have come to this countr6 have been and are awesome. How lucky are we to have had such hard working people come here and contribute. I think people worry because they wonder where it ends, and simply want somebody to be in a position to control numbers. For EU immigration that is not possible. Personally I also have a problem with how our welfare system has developed. That is a welfare system that my widowed mum benefitted from when I was at school in the 70s, so I am extremely grateful and have personal experience of its power.
We have particularly welcomed many immigrants in the last 15 years or so, and have record numbers in employment. But there is a great swathe of generally working class British born, of all colours, who have been left behind. Perhaps because the hard working immigrants are willing to do hard, difficult jobs for meagre pay, while the disaffected pick up their benefit. The benefits system, allied to the uncontrolled immigration has created a massive problem'.
This is one area of concern for many people. Most of them are not racist. Some are thick - I suspect I may be. So all I ask is that you argue your case. You know in a mature way without recourse to pejoratives. |
That's a view I respect, although I don't necessarily agree with all of it. A lot of EU migrants come here and work in jobs that British-born people are not willing or not able to do, particularly low skilled and low paid work like farm labouring and factory work. I've seen lots of interviews with business owners saying that they wouldn't cope without EU workers as British workers either don't want the jobs on offer or come and work one shift and then quit because it's too hard. I know people in the construction industry and they say that it's similarly dependent on EU labour.
Quite why it is that British born individuals aren't able to fill these rolls needs to be better understood and then addressed, unemployment is relatively low but clearly our indigenous labour market isn't meeting the needs of employers hence the need to import labour from the EU. So whilst there's an issue there I don't feel that it's immigration that is the issue and it's become easy and lazy to simply blame immigration rather than looking more deeply at the reasons why we are reliant on workers from the EU. I can see why people may be tempted to jump on immigration as being the problem, especially when you have the likes of Farage and the Mail whipping people up into a frenzy constantly, but for me it's not the real issue.
As for the bit about benefits, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. EU citizens aren't able to come over and start claiming benefits straight away, that simply isn't the case, and by far the overwhelming majority of them are coming here to work and contribute, not to claim benefits. They make a net contribution to the economy because they tend to be paying tax and NI and not really claiming anything. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:47 - Dec 14 with 5388 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:30 - Dec 14 by m14_blue |
I thought it was fairly obviously tongue in cheek to be fair. |
It it wasn't, the post about 5 posts down which starts 'My comment was tongue in cheek' ought to have given it away. But because I didn't answer a question from Glassers I am clearly the anti-Christ and any attempt at being tongue in cheek is dismissed as me being a bigot. It's incredible how that man loses his sh!t when he feels slighted that someone hasn't responded to him, but each to their own I guess. Different things are hugely important to different people. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:59 - Dec 14 with 5368 views | powinswitch |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:43 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
That's a view I respect, although I don't necessarily agree with all of it. A lot of EU migrants come here and work in jobs that British-born people are not willing or not able to do, particularly low skilled and low paid work like farm labouring and factory work. I've seen lots of interviews with business owners saying that they wouldn't cope without EU workers as British workers either don't want the jobs on offer or come and work one shift and then quit because it's too hard. I know people in the construction industry and they say that it's similarly dependent on EU labour.
Quite why it is that British born individuals aren't able to fill these rolls needs to be better understood and then addressed, unemployment is relatively low but clearly our indigenous labour market isn't meeting the needs of employers hence the need to import labour from the EU. So whilst there's an issue there I don't feel that it's immigration that is the issue and it's become easy and lazy to simply blame immigration rather than looking more deeply at the reasons why we are reliant on workers from the EU. I can see why people may be tempted to jump on immigration as being the problem, especially when you have the likes of Farage and the Mail whipping people up into a frenzy constantly, but for me it's not the real issue.
As for the bit about benefits, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. EU citizens aren't able to come over and start claiming benefits straight away, that simply isn't the case, and by far the overwhelming majority of them are coming here to work and contribute, not to claim benefits. They make a net contribution to the economy because they tend to be paying tax and NI and not really claiming anything. |
Great - that was a welcome reply. Genuinely.
I am trying to make one point and not two. The benefits is intrinsically linked due to the fact that the welfare system allows British people to not work (through choice in many cases) in jobs such as farm workers, or the construction industry, because they will still get their benefits even though they wont work in difficult or what they possibly see as degrading jobs. So instead we have had to employ immigrants who will work for the lower wages. (And they are congratulated by me for that. I admire the immigrants, who I don't personally see as the problem. the problem is the benefits system).
Now of course the influx of cheaper labour from say eastern europe, means that some of our own workforce who are willing to work - say those in the Construction industry - see their wages depressed, because the immigrants come over and undercut the local workforce. we have had one or two explaining this on this website.
Now I genuinely admire the immigrants. But if they come over and do the work, yet meanwhile a local chooses not to but is paid benefit, then whilst the immigrant himself is contributing to the economy, his contribution is funding a local claimants benefits. Better would be that we employed the local, and if he chose not to work because the job was degrading or whatever he would not then qualify for benefits. I rather suspect he would do the work. I say that, as thats what happened until the early 2000s.
Immigrants themselves are not the problem. But where does it end? If we all said sod this I'll just take the benefits, how would that work | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 17:13 - Dec 14 with 5341 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:59 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
Great - that was a welcome reply. Genuinely.
I am trying to make one point and not two. The benefits is intrinsically linked due to the fact that the welfare system allows British people to not work (through choice in many cases) in jobs such as farm workers, or the construction industry, because they will still get their benefits even though they wont work in difficult or what they possibly see as degrading jobs. So instead we have had to employ immigrants who will work for the lower wages. (And they are congratulated by me for that. I admire the immigrants, who I don't personally see as the problem. the problem is the benefits system).
Now of course the influx of cheaper labour from say eastern europe, means that some of our own workforce who are willing to work - say those in the Construction industry - see their wages depressed, because the immigrants come over and undercut the local workforce. we have had one or two explaining this on this website.
Now I genuinely admire the immigrants. But if they come over and do the work, yet meanwhile a local chooses not to but is paid benefit, then whilst the immigrant himself is contributing to the economy, his contribution is funding a local claimants benefits. Better would be that we employed the local, and if he chose not to work because the job was degrading or whatever he would not then qualify for benefits. I rather suspect he would do the work. I say that, as thats what happened until the early 2000s.
Immigrants themselves are not the problem. But where does it end? If we all said sod this I'll just take the benefits, how would that work |
In respect of benefits, whilst the system isn't perfect and doesn't always work as intended, it's very hard to simply choose not to work. Unless you are medically unable to work then you have to be seeking work and you're expected to accept work if offered it, otherwise your benefits are sanctioned. Like I say, it isn't perfect but it's not easy to simply choose not to work.
I think more needs to be done to try to skill up and instil a good work ethic in people, that seeks to be why employers struggle with unemployed 'local' people at times, they aren't as hard working as people coming over from the EU. Better training and higher wages might help but some of it is cultural too I think, we're a wealthy country compared to most countries in Eastern Europe and I think a lot of our young people have high expectations for what they ought to be able to earn and the quality of life they should have, expectations are different from people coming here from poorer countries and they are perhaps prepared to work hard in a relatively low paying job and make sacrifices so long term they can have a better life. Not that I'm for low wages in difficult jobs by any means, we should be paying a proper living wage and offering opportunities for people to up-skill and progress. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 17:35 - Dec 14 with 5314 views | jaykay |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:23 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you suggesting that the import of immigrant labour didn't drive wages down for low wage workers? |
i didnt suggest any ? (but you knew that). i was saying those who say this,were up in arms when labour introduced min pay. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 18:31 - Dec 14 with 5287 views | gordon |
I'd thought that the nature of IFS's complaint was that Labour weren't honest about how their spending plans would need to be funded, that they didn't provide enough information in the manifesto to work out whether the promises were deliverable. |  | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:09 - Dec 14 with 5268 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 15:12 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Toning down the free-market obsession for starters and facing up to reality that it increases social and regional divides rather than becoming a cure-all for society as many believed and still believe.
Put simply, we can't look to free enterprise to solve structural issues or even to plug gaps, we need serious central funding instead. We already spend billions propping up financial institutions' business models, better the quantitative easing of public spending to ensure necessary projects happen like business regeneration programmes, infrastructure improvements, maintaining and upgrading the NHS, affordable housing etc. But also at the same time we'd be putting that money into the regional economies most disadvantaged under the current approach.
We may even get the pretty modest Northern Powerhouse project properly flying rather than letting it wither and die and spending billions elsewhere on shoring up DUP support and "negotiating" Brexit ... in other words we're paying way over the odds to treat the symptoms when it could go straight into treating the causes and preventing a recurrence next year, and the year after that and so on. |
Ok so I agree with that (as far as the relative short term goes)....it reads like a copy and paste from Positive Money/Jezza's peoples QE whatever. (Which I have pushed on this forum). However it is not an agenda I see being pushed by, or made more likely by membership of, the EU. |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:15 - Dec 14 with 5262 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:30 - Dec 14 by m14_blue |
I thought it was fairly obviously tongue in cheek to be fair. |
I find that a wee winking emoji helps to clear up any room for doubt. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:17 - Dec 14 with 5258 views | Darth_Koont |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:09 - Dec 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ok so I agree with that (as far as the relative short term goes)....it reads like a copy and paste from Positive Money/Jezza's peoples QE whatever. (Which I have pushed on this forum). However it is not an agenda I see being pushed by, or made more likely by membership of, the EU. |
The EU doesn't decide how we run our own country. That's up to us.
Being a member of the EU (certainly the single market) would positively affect revenue, market and environmental regulations, worker's rights and social justice our current politicians struggle with or just choose to ignore. We clearly need that influence to prod us into doing stuff. |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:51 - Dec 14 with 5222 views | powinswitch |
| Theresa defeated.... on 17:13 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
In respect of benefits, whilst the system isn't perfect and doesn't always work as intended, it's very hard to simply choose not to work. Unless you are medically unable to work then you have to be seeking work and you're expected to accept work if offered it, otherwise your benefits are sanctioned. Like I say, it isn't perfect but it's not easy to simply choose not to work.
I think more needs to be done to try to skill up and instil a good work ethic in people, that seeks to be why employers struggle with unemployed 'local' people at times, they aren't as hard working as people coming over from the EU. Better training and higher wages might help but some of it is cultural too I think, we're a wealthy country compared to most countries in Eastern Europe and I think a lot of our young people have high expectations for what they ought to be able to earn and the quality of life they should have, expectations are different from people coming here from poorer countries and they are perhaps prepared to work hard in a relatively low paying job and make sacrifices so long term they can have a better life. Not that I'm for low wages in difficult jobs by any means, we should be paying a proper living wage and offering opportunities for people to up-skill and progress. |
First I apologise for taking so long t9 reply, but I have been to the supermarket and just got home after work etc.
Anyway you make some fair comments. I am not an expert on benefits, having never claimed, and brought up two children who have never claimed. However I find it astonishing that we have so many people out of work and claiming benefits, who are able t9 work (I realise there are a number who cannot for various reasons),yet need a substantial number of immigrants to do certain jobs. Whilst being* stereotypical, many farm workers, care workers, NHS staff, cafe baristas etc are from a foreign land. Yet we have so many of our own who claim benefits. I do understand that no system would be perfect, but ours does not appear fit for purpose.
As a teenager, Kier Hardie was something of a hero of mine (al9ng with Alan Hunter, Paul Mar8ner, and all the others). But I have become extremely disillusioned with the socialist movement in this country. Decisions such as invading Iraq ( I served there), the encouragement of so many to attend university, whereby now a degree has had its value degraded, and then introducingtuition fees, and labour’s uncontrolled spend8ng on revenue rather than capital investment have turned me away from the left. Now they even have Dianne Abbot, Jeremy Corbin and all the other looneys ready to blow the very little we don5 have on further revenue spends. I trul6 believe that Kier Hardie and the men and women of the socialist movement during* true austerity would be turning in their graves at what 5he Labour Party has done to this co7ntry over the last 20 years.
But 8 d9n5 blame the immigrants. In fac5 we would be right up sh1t street without them. | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:54 - Dec 14 with 5217 views | powinswitch |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:51 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
First I apologise for taking so long t9 reply, but I have been to the supermarket and just got home after work etc.
Anyway you make some fair comments. I am not an expert on benefits, having never claimed, and brought up two children who have never claimed. However I find it astonishing that we have so many people out of work and claiming benefits, who are able t9 work (I realise there are a number who cannot for various reasons),yet need a substantial number of immigrants to do certain jobs. Whilst being* stereotypical, many farm workers, care workers, NHS staff, cafe baristas etc are from a foreign land. Yet we have so many of our own who claim benefits. I do understand that no system would be perfect, but ours does not appear fit for purpose.
As a teenager, Kier Hardie was something of a hero of mine (al9ng with Alan Hunter, Paul Mar8ner, and all the others). But I have become extremely disillusioned with the socialist movement in this country. Decisions such as invading Iraq ( I served there), the encouragement of so many to attend university, whereby now a degree has had its value degraded, and then introducingtuition fees, and labour’s uncontrolled spend8ng on revenue rather than capital investment have turned me away from the left. Now they even have Dianne Abbot, Jeremy Corbin and all the other looneys ready to blow the very little we don5 have on further revenue spends. I trul6 believe that Kier Hardie and the men and women of the socialist movement during* true austerity would be turning in their graves at what 5he Labour Party has done to this co7ntry over the last 20 years.
But 8 d9n5 blame the immigrants. In fac5 we would be right up sh1t street without them. |
Sorry about the shocking text. Keyboard on my iPad needs looking at | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 20:06 - Dec 14 with 5195 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 12:47 - Dec 14 by Herbivore |
Propaganda? Jesus wept. |
Yes propaganda.
What else do you call this:
Your mob are quick to moan about the Boris Bus but Open Britain are deliberately misleading he public with this anti Brexit message. They know full well that the UK can't sign a single trade deal until we have left the EU. |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 20:17 - Dec 14 with 5181 views | NewcyBlue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 11:31 - Dec 14 by Archer4721 |
I can't see anything in your link up there where I've said that.
TBF though I rarely reply to you as you're a complete bore. |
Somebody has a massive lack in self awareness.
Utterly staggering. |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 21:10 - Dec 14 with 5145 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 20:06 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes propaganda.
What else do you call this:
Your mob are quick to moan about the Boris Bus but Open Britain are deliberately misleading he public with this anti Brexit message. They know full well that the UK can't sign a single trade deal until we have left the EU. |
I have no idea who they are. Hardly propaganda when it's not pricking the public consciousness. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 21:15 - Dec 14 with 5141 views | Herbivore |
| Theresa defeated.... on 19:51 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
First I apologise for taking so long t9 reply, but I have been to the supermarket and just got home after work etc.
Anyway you make some fair comments. I am not an expert on benefits, having never claimed, and brought up two children who have never claimed. However I find it astonishing that we have so many people out of work and claiming benefits, who are able t9 work (I realise there are a number who cannot for various reasons),yet need a substantial number of immigrants to do certain jobs. Whilst being* stereotypical, many farm workers, care workers, NHS staff, cafe baristas etc are from a foreign land. Yet we have so many of our own who claim benefits. I do understand that no system would be perfect, but ours does not appear fit for purpose.
As a teenager, Kier Hardie was something of a hero of mine (al9ng with Alan Hunter, Paul Mar8ner, and all the others). But I have become extremely disillusioned with the socialist movement in this country. Decisions such as invading Iraq ( I served there), the encouragement of so many to attend university, whereby now a degree has had its value degraded, and then introducingtuition fees, and labour’s uncontrolled spend8ng on revenue rather than capital investment have turned me away from the left. Now they even have Dianne Abbot, Jeremy Corbin and all the other looneys ready to blow the very little we don5 have on further revenue spends. I trul6 believe that Kier Hardie and the men and women of the socialist movement during* true austerity would be turning in their graves at what 5he Labour Party has done to this co7ntry over the last 20 years.
But 8 d9n5 blame the immigrants. In fac5 we would be right up sh1t street without them. |
No worries. I'd disagree that New Labour were remotely socialist in all honesty, they were basically Tory lite. In respect of the benefits/employment issue I imagine that some of the difficulties also arise from where employment is distributed, areas of high unemployment won't necessarily be the areas where there are vacancies and where those vacancies are being filled by EU migrants. There may be some overlap too but some of the old industrial areas, for example, haven't got much at all in the way of things like agriculture or constriction going on and there hasn't been much replacement industry in many of those areas either. | |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 21:18 - Dec 14 with 5134 views | clive_baker |
| Theresa defeated.... on 20:06 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes propaganda.
What else do you call this:
Your mob are quick to moan about the Boris Bus but Open Britain are deliberately misleading he public with this anti Brexit message. They know full well that the UK can't sign a single trade deal until we have left the EU. |
As astonished to learn of his travel bill as we are to learn of Juncker’s €24k private jet bill for a meeting in Rome I presume?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-co |  |
| |
| Theresa defeated.... on 23:04 - Dec 14 with 5080 views | m14_blue |
| Theresa defeated.... on 20:06 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes propaganda.
What else do you call this:
Your mob are quick to moan about the Boris Bus but Open Britain are deliberately misleading he public with this anti Brexit message. They know full well that the UK can't sign a single trade deal until we have left the EU. |
Who the hell are open Britain?
I'm pretty engaged and have never even heard of them. That's some pretty ineffective propaganda. | | | |
| Theresa defeated.... on 00:01 - Dec 15 with 5048 views | jeera |
| Theresa defeated.... on 16:59 - Dec 14 by powinswitch |
Great - that was a welcome reply. Genuinely.
I am trying to make one point and not two. The benefits is intrinsically linked due to the fact that the welfare system allows British people to not work (through choice in many cases) in jobs such as farm workers, or the construction industry, because they will still get their benefits even though they wont work in difficult or what they possibly see as degrading jobs. So instead we have had to employ immigrants who will work for the lower wages. (And they are congratulated by me for that. I admire the immigrants, who I don't personally see as the problem. the problem is the benefits system).
Now of course the influx of cheaper labour from say eastern europe, means that some of our own workforce who are willing to work - say those in the Construction industry - see their wages depressed, because the immigrants come over and undercut the local workforce. we have had one or two explaining this on this website.
Now I genuinely admire the immigrants. But if they come over and do the work, yet meanwhile a local chooses not to but is paid benefit, then whilst the immigrant himself is contributing to the economy, his contribution is funding a local claimants benefits. Better would be that we employed the local, and if he chose not to work because the job was degrading or whatever he would not then qualify for benefits. I rather suspect he would do the work. I say that, as thats what happened until the early 2000s.
Immigrants themselves are not the problem. But where does it end? If we all said sod this I'll just take the benefits, how would that work |
That's a dreadful reply.
I'm not sure what newspaper you've been reading but people who are unwell are sent for regular 'fit for work' assessments and are starved of funds until they do as they are bullied to do as ordered, often regardless of health or impact.
Which possibly gives some credence to Hammond's comments last week.
Heck knows what you're imagining where people have a choice whether to work or not. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
