| The Elephant in the Room 22:26 - Jan 24 with 7648 views | sibrespace |
There's so much divided opinion on here as to whether its MM or ME who is turning this club into one that has no ambition, not enough funding etc.
But you're all missing the elephant in the room.
Its us, the fanbase. We're not pulling our weight.
Our role is not only to air our grievances and opinions. Its to put our hands in our pockets and pay into the club by actually buying tickets and going to games. By filling our own stadium. Its quite simple. We have an average gate of around 15000 in a stadium of 30000. If Easyjet ran with their planes half full every flight, they'd soon get to the point where they would have to downsize to suit their income.
For every additional 1000 bums on seats at him games, our contribution to our club would increase by about £30,000. 23 times a season. Which is £700,000 per season. Do, average home gates of 24000 (remember those days?) would provide support of £7M per season. I imagine that would enable the club to start shopping fir a different class of player if it had an additional £7M a season. And if we could somehow get to an average of 90% full (27000), we would have about £9M more per season than we do now.
Yes, the football is turgid and boring.
However, removing our financial support harms our club. A number of us seem to think that ME should increase his financial support. Why don't we? We like to talk about the club belonging to the fans, but we have become apathetic and, worse, many of us have stopped supporting the club. There's a fundamental difference between a fan and a supporter. A supporter buys tickets, programmes, has a beer and a pie, buys stuff in the shop etc. That's meant to be us, folks!!
When some say things like Derby's owner supports the club more, we forget that their fans buy twice as many tickets as we do which pays the wages of a lot of those exotic players. In fact, we could have afforded to buy Tom Lawrence if more of us fans were also supporters.
Also, when some of us bemoan ME not making funds available to the manager, we misstge point that its us the fans who are nit making funds available to the manager.
In fact, our collective decision to withdraw 40% of our financial support during the past 10 years is the biggest single contributor to our change from a club with ambition to one that is stuck in a rut of mediocrity.
So, lets wake up. If you pay for sky sports and don't go to Ipswich him games, you are supporting our rivals, and not your own football club.
The way out of this mess is in our hands, not in ME or MM. We need to break out of our apathy and put our hands in our pockets, or stop criticizing those who are actually doing so.
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| The Elephant in the Room on 22:33 - Jan 24 with 5770 views | Plums |
Lots of interesting points but whilst you have drawn a disctinction between a fan and a supporter, you have neglected to include customers which is what many of us have become. I didn’t want to become one but that’s what football and ITFC have made me. I now feel I have a choice about whether to attend and quite frankly, my football money feels better spent at my local non league club at the moment. I care, I really do (illustrated by the amount of time I waste on here) but until it looks as though the ownership and management of the club do the same, I can’t be arsed spending three hours in the car to watch us go through the motions. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 05:31 - Jan 25 with 5607 views | textbackup |
Been there with a ST for god knows how many years now, so you aren’t putting me in the long drawn out post. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 06:15 - Jan 25 with 5579 views | brogansnose |
Evans bought the club as a business not as a fan. His business plan was to get us promoted and then get his rather large logo plastered all over Sky and enhance his main brand. It failed down to him taking bad advice and making poor recruitment decisions. Why are we as fans or supporters supposed to bail out a failed multi-millionaires bad punt ?
Over his tenure attendances have declined ,which in fairness is not completely down to him, and if it was any other business we would have simply gone and used another service, swapped Tesco for Sainsburys if you like. If you're running at half capacity, which Town is attendance wise, then its down to its management to address this by providing a better, and I hate to frame it this way, product and experience , not charge more for what people see as rubbish and boring. Onc e again Evans has made decisions that has had a direct influence on fans attending such as scrapping the over 60's discount. When you're not packing the place out it is plain stupidity to alienate part of its demographic.
There are certainly worse owners out there and there are things to commend about Evans but boy, he has tonked up his chances of promotion and a full house and has spun his own web of cack.
As for Mick, yeah, it ain't great but neither were the last two schmucks footballing wise and at least Mick had us bombing about closer to where we need to be and you've got to say finances have played a part in whats been on offer in a league which may be competitive but isn't that pretty.
Furthermore, you need to have a word with yourself with suggesting what people should do with their time and money. Gets my goat that does.
FWIW, I'm a ST holder and I pay the Milton £10 for the academy. |  | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 06:29 - Jan 25 with 5561 views | Benters2 |
Good morning Ian.
I got as far as its the fans fault.The average gate this season is 16700(ish).
Boo. [Post edited 25 Jan 2018 6:37]
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| The Elephant in the Room on 06:38 - Jan 25 with 5548 views | Benters2 |
| The Elephant in the Room on 05:31 - Jan 25 by textbackup |
Been there with a ST for god knows how many years now, so you aren’t putting me in the long drawn out post. |
Having a season ticket does that make you a fan or supporter? | | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:18 - Jan 25 with 5474 views | TractorWood |
| The Elephant in the Room on 22:33 - Jan 24 by Plums |
Lots of interesting points but whilst you have drawn a disctinction between a fan and a supporter, you have neglected to include customers which is what many of us have become. I didn’t want to become one but that’s what football and ITFC have made me. I now feel I have a choice about whether to attend and quite frankly, my football money feels better spent at my local non league club at the moment. I care, I really do (illustrated by the amount of time I waste on here) but until it looks as though the ownership and management of the club do the same, I can’t be arsed spending three hours in the car to watch us go through the motions. |
Stopped reading when you blamed the fans. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 07:19 - Jan 25 with 5468 views | Plums |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:18 - Jan 25 by TractorWood |
Stopped reading when you blamed the fans. |
I didn’t. | |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 07:26 - Jan 25 with 5450 views | TractorWood |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:19 - Jan 25 by Plums |
I didn’t. |
Sorry. Aimed at OP. Your points are reasonable and I feel the same having to travel from the Cambridge area after years of under investment. | |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 07:32 - Jan 25 with 5444 views | christiand |
We're classified as customers by the ME Group. Therefore, if a business is losing trade they try and be proactive and do something about it. What are ITFC actually doing to entice those missing thousands back to PR? | |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 07:44 - Jan 25 with 5416 views | TLA |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:32 - Jan 25 by christiand |
We're classified as customers by the ME Group. Therefore, if a business is losing trade they try and be proactive and do something about it. What are ITFC actually doing to entice those missing thousands back to PR? |
I'll start by saying I think our crowds have held up OK, given the situation with the club and football in general. I think our average attendance this season compares well with our last two promotion seasons.
If Norwich were in this division for 15+ years, there's no way they would be doing much better - I have three budgie friends who have ditched their season tickets already this year.
However, we really didn't do ourselves any favours with some of the season ticket decisions in the summer. |  | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:47 - Jan 25 with 5415 views | Steve_M |
You might have a point if another 5,000 tickets at, say, £450 was going to make a significant difference in a division dominated by parachute payments. Instead it will move us up a few places; nice to have but not the fundamental point. Derby and Boro for example both have owners happy to spend a lot more than Evans does on the team, as do Wolves.
and here are last season's parachute payments:
The real issue at ITFC is a total lack of strategy from the top, there hasn't been one - hastily scribbled down five point plans aside - since Evans bought the club except for throwing money at players in the first couple of years. Since he has been priced out of that one now, it's just hoping that the manager can out-perform the wage bill.
Meanwhile the lack of care and attention to the club manifests itself in the state of the ground and the indecision about McCarthy's future. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 08:20 - Jan 25 with 5381 views | artsbossbeard |
There's a couple of decent points hidden within but lets take myself as an example of the fan/customer/supporter base.
I pay for 2x season tickets, which equates to £750ish plus I'll have a beer and Jnr will have a bite to eat, so, and I'm being generous here, an additional £50 (profit to club) per season. Not sure if the club makes money on selling away tickets or if it's just provided as a service? but let's put another £50 quid here too.
£850 per season for 2x supporters. That probably covers a days wages for the currently injured Huws.
I've asked before on here, but if anyone knows a dodgy Russian Oligarch looking to invest in a football club, then please contact the club. Otherwise, it's all down to how much ME wants to put in. It's really quite irrelevant whether you agree or disagree that his input is substantial or insubstantial. It's his financial input. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 08:29 - Jan 25 with 5361 views | Benters2 |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:32 - Jan 25 by christiand |
We're classified as customers by the ME Group. Therefore, if a business is losing trade they try and be proactive and do something about it. What are ITFC actually doing to entice those missing thousands back to PR? |
Selling top notch beer and sausage rolls at £4 a pop.
Meanwhile at the station a sausage roll from Greggs is £1.
It might not be great but you can have 4 of the fkrs their for £4! | | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:35 - Jan 25 with 5326 views | solemio |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:29 - Jan 25 by Benters2 |
Selling top notch beer and sausage rolls at £4 a pop.
Meanwhile at the station a sausage roll from Greggs is £1.
It might not be great but you can have 4 of the fkrs their for £4! |
Yes, but you're helping the club you love so much if you buy at the ground.
The original Benters was so much more intelligent than this new one (or 2). | | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:38 - Jan 25 with 5314 views | Benters2 |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:35 - Jan 25 by solemio |
Yes, but you're helping the club you love so much if you buy at the ground.
The original Benters was so much more intelligent than this new one (or 2). |
If you can get served..
Thanks for those kind words x | | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:53 - Jan 25 with 5264 views | hype313 |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:20 - Jan 25 by artsbossbeard |
There's a couple of decent points hidden within but lets take myself as an example of the fan/customer/supporter base.
I pay for 2x season tickets, which equates to £750ish plus I'll have a beer and Jnr will have a bite to eat, so, and I'm being generous here, an additional £50 (profit to club) per season. Not sure if the club makes money on selling away tickets or if it's just provided as a service? but let's put another £50 quid here too.
£850 per season for 2x supporters. That probably covers a days wages for the currently injured Huws.
I've asked before on here, but if anyone knows a dodgy Russian Oligarch looking to invest in a football club, then please contact the club. Otherwise, it's all down to how much ME wants to put in. It's really quite irrelevant whether you agree or disagree that his input is substantial or insubstantial. It's his financial input. |
Spot on.
Unfortunately for Evans he got told by Sheepy that it just needed a couple of million quid spent on it and the promised land will be his.
As we all can now see, that hasn't happened, and I for one can't blame Evans for pumping more into a dead horse, especially when your in a race driving a 2CV and the competition are in Ferrari's. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 09:04 - Jan 25 with 5239 views | ITFC_Forever |
| The Elephant in the Room on 08:53 - Jan 25 by hype313 |
Spot on.
Unfortunately for Evans he got told by Sheepy that it just needed a couple of million quid spent on it and the promised land will be his.
As we all can now see, that hasn't happened, and I for one can't blame Evans for pumping more into a dead horse, especially when your in a race driving a 2CV and the competition are in Ferrari's. |
Sheepy was correct to a point.... "spend a few quid and get promoted" was a valid enough sales pitch.
Unfortunately, Sheepy didn't point out the obvious and say that the money should have been spent on a decent manager and decent players, with the negotiations done by someone who knew what they were doing. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 09:06 - Jan 25 with 5232 views | Steve_M |
| The Elephant in the Room on 09:04 - Jan 25 by ITFC_Forever |
Sheepy was correct to a point.... "spend a few quid and get promoted" was a valid enough sales pitch.
Unfortunately, Sheepy didn't point out the obvious and say that the money should have been spent on a decent manager and decent players, with the negotiations done by someone who knew what they were doing. |
Well quite. Although Sheepy was heavily involved in the Norris deal, talking the price up himself via the Star. Good to see he had learnt lessons from 2001. | |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 09:09 - Jan 25 with 5214 views | unbelievablue |
Your maths is wrong. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 09:42 - Jan 25 with 5159 views | Currie10 |
There is certainly an element of this.
A lot of ' we want this we want that ' yet with people unwilling to attend, spend a penny themselves.
Obviously, success helps - But I think there are other factors worth considering, notably....
* We've been stuck in this ruddy division for 16 years.
People are just somewhat bored. Clearly, when we came down from the Premier league there were a lot of fans for a couple of years who had tickets in the hope we'd be straight back up.
Obviously if stuck in this league for such a prolonged periods gates were always going to drop - from 27,000 to 14,500 is worrying though to say the least.
Then I think you can consider the following two factors -
* The club messing up on ticket pricing for this season / bad relationship with club and fans on ticket cost. Lets be clear, as customers we are absolutely conned in relation to other clubs in the league with ticket price. The club has addressed that somewhat this season ( clearly not on over 60........ ) so deserve SOME credit - however, it's going to take time for that to filter through.....
* People apparently won't go until Mick leaves. Now, that's fair enough I'd say. As fans we can choose to do what we want. However, we'll see what the gates are when Mick leaves.
My summary though, for what it's worth -
I actually think we're quite a brave set of fans NOT attending and BACK this decision that many have made. Granted, I'd love 25,000 average gates - more money to play with etc - but the club have FORCED many peoples hand on this. It pains many town fans not to go, but as a customer that's the only real say we have.
If everyone kept going, complaining yet giving the club ££££ would we be any better off?
People WILL come back, but the club need to continue building the relationship. They've ( in my opinion ) taken US for granted the past 15 years..... |  | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 09:43 - Jan 25 with 5157 views | southnorfolkblue |
If Easyjet had a half full flight, they would reduce prices.
Perhaps Evans should take note. He is supposed to be an expert in corporate entertainment after all. | |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 09:45 - Jan 25 with 5150 views | Currie10 |
| The Elephant in the Room on 09:43 - Jan 25 by southnorfolkblue |
If Easyjet had a half full flight, they would reduce prices.
Perhaps Evans should take note. He is supposed to be an expert in corporate entertainment after all. |
It's not just about that though - especially in relation to matchday tickets.
The club HAVE got rid of the £2.50 matchday hike ( laughable ) and reduced adult tickets from 27.50 / 32.50 to 25 / 30 this season.
This has done literally nothing to help boost gates.
I'd go as far as saying the club could lower them to 20 / 25 and people still wouldn't want to part with £20 a game. | | | |
| The Elephant in the Room on 09:58 - Jan 25 with 5119 views | BrianTablet |
| The Elephant in the Room on 09:45 - Jan 25 by Currie10 |
It's not just about that though - especially in relation to matchday tickets.
The club HAVE got rid of the £2.50 matchday hike ( laughable ) and reduced adult tickets from 27.50 / 32.50 to 25 / 30 this season.
This has done literally nothing to help boost gates.
I'd go as far as saying the club could lower them to 20 / 25 and people still wouldn't want to part with £20 a game. |
Maybe I'm mean/poor or whatever, but £30 vs £20 would make a huge difference as to whether I go or not.
Even this Saturday, the thought of the match costing £30 + travel will make me think twice.
And I think football is so unpredictable, and our football has been so sh*te in recent years, that it will never get past that 'second thought'.
It's a sport. It will always be a sport. It shouldn't be about the money. And when it becomes about the money, it becomes a half empty ground, no atmosphere, and no mutual respect. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 10:29 - Jan 25 with 5074 views | Guthrum |
An extra £7m a season would just about allow the club to break even. Even if we averaged 25k, it wouldn't give much extra for transfers and wages. |  |
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| The Elephant in the Room on 10:44 - Jan 25 with 5024 views | Ryorry |
| The Elephant in the Room on 07:47 - Jan 25 by Steve_M |
You might have a point if another 5,000 tickets at, say, £450 was going to make a significant difference in a division dominated by parachute payments. Instead it will move us up a few places; nice to have but not the fundamental point. Derby and Boro for example both have owners happy to spend a lot more than Evans does on the team, as do Wolves.
and here are last season's parachute payments:
The real issue at ITFC is a total lack of strategy from the top, there hasn't been one - hastily scribbled down five point plans aside - since Evans bought the club except for throwing money at players in the first couple of years. Since he has been priced out of that one now, it's just hoping that the manager can out-perform the wage bill.
Meanwhile the lack of care and attention to the club manifests itself in the state of the ground and the indecision about McCarthy's future. |
Well said & detailed, top post. |  |
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