| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - 11:15 - Mar 14 with 9075 views | bluevein |
The tradition of this club, with what Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson and even myself achieved shouldn’t be forgotten. Right now, Ipswich should be contesting for the top six in the Championship every year at the very least — that’s where I think they should be. I was at the club for 21 years as a player and manager and the standard never dropped below that.That’s the level Ipswich Town should be endeavouring to be at again. That’s where they should expect to be. It’s that type of club.When I took over in 1994 the first thing I said was I wanted to take the club back into Europe and we did that. |  | | |  |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:23 - Mar 14 with 6308 views | Guthrum |
I'm afraid you can - or, at least, qualify them.
English football, the environment it operates in, the levels of finance required, have changed a great deal, even since 2000. Not the same place as his day, let alone those predecessors he cites. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:25 - Mar 14 with 6285 views | hype313 |
Give the budgets we shouldn't be contesting the top 6, why does he think that? Love Burley but 2018 is vastly different to 1994 in the football landscape. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:26 - Mar 14 with 6277 views | Steve_M |
Why should we be competing at the top of the Championship? I want us to be but I'm not sure why we should have any expectation of being a regular top six club. That now needs far greater financial input that ME is prepared to put in.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot that the owner should be doing better. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:30 - Mar 14 with 6232 views | wkj |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:25 - Mar 14 by hype313 |
Give the budgets we shouldn't be contesting the top 6, why does he think that? Love Burley but 2018 is vastly different to 1994 in the football landscape. |
Maybe his comments also are relevant to budgets too and Evans' lack of investment for MM |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:30 - Mar 14 with 6233 views | Pinewoodblue |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:23 - Mar 14 by Guthrum |
I'm afraid you can - or, at least, qualify them.
English football, the environment it operates in, the levels of finance required, have changed a great deal, even since 2000. Not the same place as his day, let alone those predecessors he cites. |
We need a manager who feels the same, apart from the bit about qualifying for Europe. That should only be in your mind once established in top flight. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:35 - Mar 14 with 6187 views | christiand |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:25 - Mar 14 by hype313 |
Give the budgets we shouldn't be contesting the top 6, why does he think that? Love Burley but 2018 is vastly different to 1994 in the football landscape. |
If your aspirations are low, you'll finish low. Why not aim high? Yes, I agree the financial side has changed, but one thing is for sure George Burley knows and understands how to play good football and that never changes. I'd have Burley back with Klug for the remainder of the season and see how things evolve. I bet Ipswich would play a better style of football - with the same squad of players - in a matter of weeks and the youngsters would get the opportunity if good enough. We'd all be saying Mick who?
One other thing Accrington Stanley have the equal lowest budget in League Two, think you'll find they are top of the league. I know some will say: 'Yes, but that's league two' however it is all relative. [Post edited 14 Mar 2018 12:06]
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:35 - Mar 14 with 6181 views | Guthrum |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:30 - Mar 14 by Pinewoodblue |
We need a manager who feels the same, apart from the bit about qualifying for Europe. That should only be in your mind once established in top flight. |
Feeling like that is great. But it has also got to be realistically achievable, otherwise it's just vain wishful thinking. | |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:46 - Mar 14 with 6112 views | Superfrans |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:26 - Mar 14 by Steve_M |
Why should we be competing at the top of the Championship? I want us to be but I'm not sure why we should have any expectation of being a regular top six club. That now needs far greater financial input that ME is prepared to put in.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot that the owner should be doing better. |
In some respects, it is this kind of perception (and ex-players/managers who fuel it) which is at the heart of our problems. Excessive expectations are not helpful. We have no divine right to be competing for the play-offs, any more than any other club in the Championship does. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:55 - Mar 14 with 6030 views | Illinoisblue |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:46 - Mar 14 by Superfrans |
In some respects, it is this kind of perception (and ex-players/managers who fuel it) which is at the heart of our problems. Excessive expectations are not helpful. We have no divine right to be competing for the play-offs, any more than any other club in the Championship does. |
Is it excessive expectation to want to try and beat Sheff Utd at home. Instead we have a manger cowering in fear that we might get beaten. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:56 - Mar 14 with 6027 views | WestSussexBlue |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:35 - Mar 14 by christiand |
If your aspirations are low, you'll finish low. Why not aim high? Yes, I agree the financial side has changed, but one thing is for sure George Burley knows and understands how to play good football and that never changes. I'd have Burley back with Klug for the remainder of the season and see how things evolve. I bet Ipswich would play a better style of football - with the same squad of players - in a matter of weeks and the youngsters would get the opportunity if good enough. We'd all be saying Mick who?
One other thing Accrington Stanley have the equal lowest budget in League Two, think you'll find they are top of the league. I know some will say: 'Yes, but that's league two' however it is all relative. [Post edited 14 Mar 2018 12:06]
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If that happened I’d be very satisfied.
This club needs that connection not the sort of disharmony that seems to be deliberately pushed out currently from the manager. | | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:57 - Mar 14 with 6007 views | Fixed_It |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:55 - Mar 14 by Illinoisblue |
Is it excessive expectation to want to try and beat Sheff Utd at home. Instead we have a manger cowering in fear that we might get beaten. |
'Cowering in fear'? Hardly an image that I associate with MM. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:00 - Mar 14 with 5973 views | imsureazzure |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:56 - Mar 14 by WestSussexBlue |
If that happened I’d be very satisfied.
This club needs that connection not the sort of disharmony that seems to be deliberately pushed out currently from the manager. |
MM is a misery, his manner is negative, he is thin skinned and chippy, all of thee traits are now flowing through our football club. |  | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:01 - Mar 14 with 5960 views | Superfrans |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:55 - Mar 14 by Illinoisblue |
Is it excessive expectation to want to try and beat Sheff Utd at home. Instead we have a manger cowering in fear that we might get beaten. |
Are you saying all the fuss is about Sheff Utd at home? One match?
Of course it isn't, it's about two years of performance, five years on our budgets etc etc. | |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:04 - Mar 14 with 5936 views | Crawfordsboot |
Yes but George also took Crystal Palance deep into the relegation zone in the Championship before he was sacked!
As has been pointed out above the football operating environment has changed hugely since his day. |  | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:10 - Mar 14 with 5861 views | christiand |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:04 - Mar 14 by Crawfordsboot |
Yes but George also took Crystal Palance deep into the relegation zone in the Championship before he was sacked!
As has been pointed out above the football operating environment has changed hugely since his day. |
But to coach players to play an eye catching brand of football that never changes. MM doesn’t know how to play any other way than what he has done with us over the last 5+ seasons. Has it really got better over time? Very questionable. | |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:11 - Mar 14 with 5851 views | BullardsMagicMullet |
1994 is very different from 2018.
One positive he had, when we had to sell a player for a sizeable fee, he was always given money to spend to get a replacement in, ie Dyer out and Stewart in.
In recent years Evans must of taken in over £15 million in transfer fees and spent under 20% on new players. I am not a great fan of MM but Evans should be held just as accountable for the growing mess. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:13 - Mar 14 with 5835 views | SpruceMoose |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:25 - Mar 14 by hype313 |
Give the budgets we shouldn't be contesting the top 6, why does he think that? Love Burley but 2018 is vastly different to 1994 in the football landscape. |
His comments should be enough to silence those few lone voices in the wilderness putting Burley forward as a viable MM replacement. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:14 - Mar 14 with 5824 views | Lord_Lucan |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:46 - Mar 14 by Superfrans |
In some respects, it is this kind of perception (and ex-players/managers who fuel it) which is at the heart of our problems. Excessive expectations are not helpful. We have no divine right to be competing for the play-offs, any more than any other club in the Championship does. |
We don't have a divine right to expect it but we have a right to give it our best shot.
Sheff U draw is a massive show that we aren't giving it our best shot. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:21 - Mar 14 with 5798 views | PhilTWTD |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 11:46 - Mar 14 by Superfrans |
In some respects, it is this kind of perception (and ex-players/managers who fuel it) which is at the heart of our problems. Excessive expectations are not helpful. We have no divine right to be competing for the play-offs, any more than any other club in the Championship does. |
I agree, I think there seems to be a lack of understanding or acceptance that the division has changed to such a huge degree over the last two or three seasons. Given the current context reaching the top six would be a significant overacheivement.
I've read on here this morning that people think we run with a League One budget and that ME has cut the budget back to the bone in recent seasons. While the budget may be small for the Championship - probably about 18th highest - it's miles above a League One budget and it's more a case that the division has got richer around us than the budget having been cut back. A wage bill of £18 million-ish - as it was last year - in the second division is very significant in a historical context (and is probably in excess of 100 per cent of turnover) if not in the current Championship.
MM needs to move on for the process of rebuilding to start, no question, he probably should have gone last year, but the new manager needs to be better resourced if we're to get back to the situation where there should be an expectation that we ought to be in the play-offs. Whether ME has those resources at his disposal is a moot point, however. |  | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:27 - Mar 14 with 5724 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
I love Burley..... and he gave me my VERY BEST years as an Ipswich fan.
.....but, those comments do sound very out of touch. |  |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:27 - Mar 14 with 5717 views | Superfrans |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:14 - Mar 14 by Lord_Lucan |
We don't have a divine right to expect it but we have a right to give it our best shot.
Sheff U draw is a massive show that we aren't giving it our best shot. |
We didn't not give it our best shot.
Does Mick err on the side of caution? of course he does, we know that. But we started on the front foot on Saturday and were trying Celina with Waghorn for the first time, Kenlock advanced on one side, Iorfa on the other. It didn't work.
He will always say that he'll take a point, as he did after the match. That's his way. And he's right, a point is better than none. But trying to look on the bright side of a poor performance is different from starting off intending to give a poor performance.
Right now, we are down to our bare bones, the players we've been relying on are knackered and as a result we don't have the spark to score goals in the way we were earlier in the season.
Villa lost 3-1 at home to QPR last night. It happens. | |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:29 - Mar 14 with 5700 views | SpruceMoose |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:21 - Mar 14 by PhilTWTD |
I agree, I think there seems to be a lack of understanding or acceptance that the division has changed to such a huge degree over the last two or three seasons. Given the current context reaching the top six would be a significant overacheivement.
I've read on here this morning that people think we run with a League One budget and that ME has cut the budget back to the bone in recent seasons. While the budget may be small for the Championship - probably about 18th highest - it's miles above a League One budget and it's more a case that the division has got richer around us than the budget having been cut back. A wage bill of £18 million-ish - as it was last year - in the second division is very significant in a historical context (and is probably in excess of 100 per cent of turnover) if not in the current Championship.
MM needs to move on for the process of rebuilding to start, no question, he probably should have gone last year, but the new manager needs to be better resourced if we're to get back to the situation where there should be an expectation that we ought to be in the play-offs. Whether ME has those resources at his disposal is a moot point, however. |
Regarding you last paragraph, this is why I stayed in the Mick in camp so long. I couldn't see a better man available to work with the same funds as MM has had at his disposal. But now
I just don't think him staying is tenable. He looks miserable, he sounds miserable, and everyone else is falling on a scale somewhere between heartbroken and furious. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:31 - Mar 14 with 5673 views | imsureazzure |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:29 - Mar 14 by SpruceMoose |
Regarding you last paragraph, this is why I stayed in the Mick in camp so long. I couldn't see a better man available to work with the same funds as MM has had at his disposal. But now
I just don't think him staying is tenable. He looks miserable, he sounds miserable, and everyone else is falling on a scale somewhere between heartbroken and furious. |
'somewhere between heartbroken and furious' This sums it up perfectly. | | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:34 - Mar 14 with 5664 views | PhilTWTD |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:29 - Mar 14 by SpruceMoose |
Regarding you last paragraph, this is why I stayed in the Mick in camp so long. I couldn't see a better man available to work with the same funds as MM has had at his disposal. But now
I just don't think him staying is tenable. He looks miserable, he sounds miserable, and everyone else is falling on a scale somewhere between heartbroken and furious. |
While MM has overachieved budget-to-position, he's not the only manager to be capable of that. Alex Neil and Neil Harris both have their teams ahead of Town this season on budgets which are probably two-thirds* of ours and Huddersfield got promoted with similar resources.
But I agree, his position now looks untenable. The current situation continuing isn't good for any of the parties involved, MM, the club long term, the fans and ME.
*Amended, inadvertently wrote a third when I meant two-thirds.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:35 - Mar 14 with 5652 views | Superfrans |
| You can't disagree with George Burley's comments - on 12:21 - Mar 14 by PhilTWTD |
I agree, I think there seems to be a lack of understanding or acceptance that the division has changed to such a huge degree over the last two or three seasons. Given the current context reaching the top six would be a significant overacheivement.
I've read on here this morning that people think we run with a League One budget and that ME has cut the budget back to the bone in recent seasons. While the budget may be small for the Championship - probably about 18th highest - it's miles above a League One budget and it's more a case that the division has got richer around us than the budget having been cut back. A wage bill of £18 million-ish - as it was last year - in the second division is very significant in a historical context (and is probably in excess of 100 per cent of turnover) if not in the current Championship.
MM needs to move on for the process of rebuilding to start, no question, he probably should have gone last year, but the new manager needs to be better resourced if we're to get back to the situation where there should be an expectation that we ought to be in the play-offs. Whether ME has those resources at his disposal is a moot point, however. |
Interesting points, Phil.
I do wonder whether part of our problem is frugality on McCarthy's part. Is he saying to Evans that we don't need to spend £2m on that player, because I can get this other guy for £500k? Would another manager be more demanding of Evans (as Keane clearly was) and insist on proper transfer fees.
Also, in the event that we can sell a player for £5m, why is McCarthy not insisting that he gets that to spend. It would seem to be a reasonable way to operate.
You would also have hoped that, last May, McCarthy would have gone to Evans and said, "Let me have £5m to buy Lawrence, I can make him a £10m player (or more) in two years time." But I'm not sure he would have made that case, or certainly not a forceful one.
A long way of saying that, if we get a new manager, maybe budgets will be less restrictive. | |
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