| Colin Viljoen 08:55 - May 22 with 35622 views | Lord_Lucan |
I started watching Ipswich late in 1975 and don't remember much about Viljoen, I think he must have been injured a lot?
Since the Blue Heaven thing I have been thinking about him. I always got the feeling that he never really mixed much with the rest of the team and was a bit aloof.
Anyone got any stories or comments on him? |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 21:29 - May 23 with 6503 views | Vic |
| Colin Viljoen on 05:20 - May 23 by shamboy |
No, it is true.
There were some very talented black schoolboys around the town at the time, but none were given a fair chance when they trialled at Ipswich. It was a bone of contention in the black community for many years, but rarely spoken about outside that group.
Speak to any of the key people from Caribbeans FC from that time if you want the truth.
As for Viljoen, tremendous player so smooth on the ball but who can honestly say they have ever met a nice white South African. Their sense of entitlement is legendary. [Post edited 23 May 2018 5:22]
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Exactly. It’s no longer the case, but many in the black community still refer back to those times.
Lucan - yes, Louis and Ruel are two, but several others I’ve spoken too say the same, plus a few old expos and semi pros I’ve chatted to over the last few years. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 21:31 - May 23 with 6493 views | Vic |
| Colin Viljoen on 07:52 - May 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm still not having it - not one bit.
Most clubs were mainly white back then, there were only a handful of black players about.
What years are you talking about and what players? |
Whether it was or wasn’t the case, the black community certainly felt they weren’t given a fair crack of the whip. | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 07:50 - May 24 with 6390 views | shamboy |
| Colin Viljoen on 21:31 - May 23 by Vic |
Whether it was or wasn’t the case, the black community certainly felt they weren’t given a fair crack of the whip. |
It is easy to forget that many institutions were inherently racist in those days.
I started work at Willis Faber shortly after its move to Ipswich. Of the 1200 people employed, including about half who were recruited locally, there was one black person in a clerical job, but none in a management position. We were not aware of a single other black person in the organisation.
Then one day one of the enormous black panes of glass spontaneously shattered. It was decided that the glass would have to be knocked out onto the pavement below. As we watched this happening from the second floor, a black guy emerged from the maintenance department on Princes Street, clearly having been given the job of protecting the public from the falling glass.
So that was Willis Faber at the time - only two black men employed, one of whom was the official company Glass Catcher!
To digress, around that time I played in a Willis team against Charlie Woods' ITFC Youth team at Rushmere. Our best player was tasked with marking Alan Brazil.
We lost 6-0. Brazil scored all six, all through the middle. But the relevance is that Woods' large squad was 100% white. That's how it was. |  | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 07:53 - May 24 with 6384 views | Superfrans |
| Colin Viljoen on 16:57 - May 23 by Meadowlark |
Steve Stacey. |
So, there you go - I had never heard of him. A bit before my time. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 08:29 - May 24 with 6369 views | PJH |
| Colin Viljoen on 07:53 - May 24 by Superfrans |
So, there you go - I had never heard of him. A bit before my time. |
Bill McGarry's last signing for us I think.
Made his debut at home to Liverpool two days after signing but only made two more appearances.
edit-Steve Stacey was subbed in his first game in September 1968,I seem to remember he getting a quite serious injury,his only two other appearances were the following April. [Post edited 24 May 2018 9:11]
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| Colin Viljoen on 11:22 - May 24 with 6346 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Colin Viljoen on 21:29 - May 23 by Vic |
Exactly. It’s no longer the case, but many in the black community still refer back to those times.
Lucan - yes, Louis and Ruel are two, but several others I’ve spoken too say the same, plus a few old expos and semi pros I’ve chatted to over the last few years. |
We are still going to have to agree to disagree with this.
I simply refuse to accept that my club was racist, there simply weren't many black players around at the time. Wasn't Viv Anderson the first black English player in or around 1980?
I have lived in Ipswich all my adult life and know a fair few faces, I used to pop in the Carib club now and again when the old boys were playing dominos, I can walk into most pubs and know someone but I have never heard anyone mention this racist thing in my entire life.
If anyone has mentioned that their kid was overlooked then who were these kids? What did they achieve and where if they were good enough? | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 11:29 - May 24 with 6331 views | Radlett_blue |
| Colin Viljoen on 11:22 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
We are still going to have to agree to disagree with this.
I simply refuse to accept that my club was racist, there simply weren't many black players around at the time. Wasn't Viv Anderson the first black English player in or around 1980?
I have lived in Ipswich all my adult life and know a fair few faces, I used to pop in the Carib club now and again when the old boys were playing dominos, I can walk into most pubs and know someone but I have never heard anyone mention this racist thing in my entire life.
If anyone has mentioned that their kid was overlooked then who were these kids? What did they achieve and where if they were good enough? |
I think what is generally accepted is that there was an undercurrent of racial prejudice in professional football in the 1970s, as well as in society as a whole. There was certainly an urban myth that black players "lacked bottle", while they were often stereotyped as speed merchants who could only be trusted to play on the wing. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 11:36 - May 24 with 6321 views | PJH |
| Colin Viljoen on 11:22 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
We are still going to have to agree to disagree with this.
I simply refuse to accept that my club was racist, there simply weren't many black players around at the time. Wasn't Viv Anderson the first black English player in or around 1980?
I have lived in Ipswich all my adult life and know a fair few faces, I used to pop in the Carib club now and again when the old boys were playing dominos, I can walk into most pubs and know someone but I have never heard anyone mention this racist thing in my entire life.
If anyone has mentioned that their kid was overlooked then who were these kids? What did they achieve and where if they were good enough? |
You are certainly right that there were not many black players-anywhere.
Although there had been a few from time to time including future comedian Charlie Williams at Barnsley and Albert Johanneson at Leeds it was not really until the late 1960's that there was an increase-Clyde Best at West Ham being one of the first.
I have certainly never heard of ITFC being racist and certainly was never aware of them rejecting a player because of their colour.
When we signed Steve Stacey in 1968 to sign a black player was a relatively rare event and it is likely that some had been rejected by some clubs purely because of race but I certainly never heard that about Ipswich.
I suppose if there was a doubt about the ability of a player to make it in professional football the fact that they were also black might well have made it easier to turn them down back in those days. | | | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 12:16 - May 24 with 6294 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Colin Viljoen on 11:29 - May 24 by Radlett_blue |
I think what is generally accepted is that there was an undercurrent of racial prejudice in professional football in the 1970s, as well as in society as a whole. There was certainly an urban myth that black players "lacked bottle", while they were often stereotyped as speed merchants who could only be trusted to play on the wing. |
Yes I agree with that and I also agree with PJH below.
I'm not a defender of Ipswich as a town as I think it's a backward boring sh1thole but I remain proud that we lived in racial harmony when most other places didn't.
I see no reason to believe that that also didn't extend to our football club and I can tell you that we wouldn't have had the large black following that we had if we were thought to be racist amongst the black community.
Take a look at the footage of games back then and the FA Cup and UEFA Cup celebrations in town. Take a look at the amount of black faces and tell me if you have seen the same mix at similar happenings elsewhere. | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 12:23 - May 24 with 6277 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Colin Viljoen on 23:38 - May 22 by Lord_Lucan |
I find that very hard to believe. Are you referring to Louie and Ruel?
Louie Donawa joined Norwich Youth in 1980, he wasn't anywhere good enough to join Ipswich at the time. Ruel was a late developer and spent most of his early seasons as a sub at best and at the very same time he wouldn't have got close to our own Dalian Atkinson.
Ipswich as a football club and town has always lived in racial harmony.
Norwich as a city never saw a black man until the Fashanus landed there from Bernados. [Post edited 22 May 2018 23:41]
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Ipswich has had a large support amongst the Carribean community for decades. Check out Osbourne's winner in 78.
As for players Jonny Miller was one of the first black professionals in English football. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 13:03 - May 24 with 6243 views | BluJu |
My father-in-law was talking about him a few weeks ago - reckons CV fell out with BR over the FA Cup final thing and left soon after.
He also added that he wasn't a very nice bloke when compared to the rest of the team. He'd been at a dinner during which each table had a Town player sat with them during the meal. The other tables had a great time with very chatty players who engaged with the paying masses, except my father-in-law's table where CV sat, said little, keeping himself to himself and then bolting for his mates at the back of the room as soon as he'd eaten. |  | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 13:13 - May 24 with 6228 views | Superfrans |
| Colin Viljoen on 11:22 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
We are still going to have to agree to disagree with this.
I simply refuse to accept that my club was racist, there simply weren't many black players around at the time. Wasn't Viv Anderson the first black English player in or around 1980?
I have lived in Ipswich all my adult life and know a fair few faces, I used to pop in the Carib club now and again when the old boys were playing dominos, I can walk into most pubs and know someone but I have never heard anyone mention this racist thing in my entire life.
If anyone has mentioned that their kid was overlooked then who were these kids? What did they achieve and where if they were good enough? |
I'm not sure anyone is disagreeing with you per se, Lucan.
There is a difference between someone/thing being racist and there being a perception that it is.
I can totally understand that, from certain standpoints, there might have been a perception that the club was prejudiced in some way. But the evidence is there that it wasn't - most notably, two of the earliest cases of black footballers in English football played for Town, Johnny Miller and (as I've now discovered) Steve Stacey.
It's also worth noting (as you allude to) that people will find all kinds of excuses to explain why they haven't got a break, been given an opportunity. As you say, it might simply be because they weren't good enough. | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 15:41 - Apr 9 with 5374 views | leon_viljoen |
| Colin Viljoen on 13:13 - May 24 by Superfrans |
I'm not sure anyone is disagreeing with you per se, Lucan.
There is a difference between someone/thing being racist and there being a perception that it is.
I can totally understand that, from certain standpoints, there might have been a perception that the club was prejudiced in some way. But the evidence is there that it wasn't - most notably, two of the earliest cases of black footballers in English football played for Town, Johnny Miller and (as I've now discovered) Steve Stacey.
It's also worth noting (as you allude to) that people will find all kinds of excuses to explain why they haven't got a break, been given an opportunity. As you say, it might simply be because they weren't good enough. |
this has been a ‘very’ entertaining thread! from page 1... about 50% of it true. 50% of it not remotely close about my dad. Some nice things said and without a doubt his skill set.. he was simply gifted. Injuries especially back then with not nearly the rehab technologies we have today.. def took years off his time. both achilles, both hamstrings. thanks for the kind words about him .. cheers Leon |  | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 15:58 - Apr 9 with 5339 views | Father_Jack |
| Colin Viljoen on 09:24 - May 22 by usm |
He was the best player in team when I started going in the late 60's. Mind you, he was only competing with the likes of Derek Jefferson, Colin Harper??? (I liked him) and Rod Belfitt. David Best in goal, as well I think. |
You've forgotten under-rated midfield genius Ian Collard. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 16:19 - Apr 9 with 5302 views | WeWereZombies |
| Colin Viljoen on 11:22 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
We are still going to have to agree to disagree with this.
I simply refuse to accept that my club was racist, there simply weren't many black players around at the time. Wasn't Viv Anderson the first black English player in or around 1980?
I have lived in Ipswich all my adult life and know a fair few faces, I used to pop in the Carib club now and again when the old boys were playing dominos, I can walk into most pubs and know someone but I have never heard anyone mention this racist thing in my entire life.
If anyone has mentioned that their kid was overlooked then who were these kids? What did they achieve and where if they were good enough? |
Viv Anderson was the first black player to play for England but there could have been one much earlier than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Leslie_(English_footballer)
The Wikipedia page does not go into details but I read some years ago that Jack Leslie got called up for England due to glowing reports of his scoring record at Plymouth but the selectors had never seen him play. The lad travels up from the south west to report for training and suddenly the England backroom staff realise that he is 'a man of colour' so send him back to Plymouth.
If memory serves me Colin Viljoen played in the same team as Johnny Miller, I never heard of there being a problem between them but I read either on this forum or Pride of Anglia that it was specifically Brian Talbot who objected to Viljoen being selected for the Cup Final team. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a recollection of Viljoen being bow legged, I think they are getting him mixed up with someone else. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 16:56 - Apr 9 with 5272 views | Meadowlark |
| Colin Viljoen on 15:41 - Apr 9 by leon_viljoen |
this has been a ‘very’ entertaining thread! from page 1... about 50% of it true. 50% of it not remotely close about my dad. Some nice things said and without a doubt his skill set.. he was simply gifted. Injuries especially back then with not nearly the rehab technologies we have today.. def took years off his time. both achilles, both hamstrings. thanks for the kind words about him .. cheers Leon |
I assume that you are really his son. If so, please can you fill us in on what happened to him after Ipswich? I am genuinely interested. Like others who started supporting the Town in the late 60s we all agree he was our best player for many seasons. |  | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 16:57 - Apr 9 with 5272 views | GeoffSentence |
| Colin Viljoen on 09:13 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
He was clearly Town's most skillful player when I first started watching in 1972. Also adept with free kicks & a cool penalty taker. I don't recall him being injury prone until later in his career, notably 1977-78 when he had been out inured & returned for a game at Villa just before the Cup Final. It seemed clear that Robson was giving him a chance to prove his fitness & if he did OK, he would play at Wembley ahead of the more limited Roger Osborne. Now, it was said that Viljoen wasn't too popular with some of his team mates - he was confident to the point of arrogance & he was one of the first Town players to own a car (amazing to think of that now). Apparently, he regularly refused to give other players a lift to the training ground. So, the theory is that a few of the Town players didn't want him back in the team for the final so they didn't want him to look good at Villa & refused to pass the ball to him, although it was normal for players to take it easy with an FA Cup Final a week away. Anyway, we lost 6-1 & Osborne was restored to the team for Wembley. Viljoen didn't kick a ball for Town again & by now aged 30, his career quickly petered out at Man City. |
How times change, you are unlikely to hear " his career quickly petered out at Man City. "* now.
*Wrighty excepted. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 17:09 - Apr 9 with 5266 views | GeoffSentence |
| Colin Viljoen on 21:29 - May 23 by Vic |
Exactly. It’s no longer the case, but many in the black community still refer back to those times.
Lucan - yes, Louis and Ruel are two, but several others I’ve spoken too say the same, plus a few old expos and semi pros I’ve chatted to over the last few years. |
Is it possible that they weren't as good as they thought they were? ANy of them make it anywhere else?
One other thing that has to be factored in, is that wasn't much squad churn then anyway. What was it? Thirteen players that Sir Bob bought in is entire time in charge? | |
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| Colin Viljoen on 17:57 - Apr 9 with 5220 views | MedwayTractor |
| Colin Viljoen on 16:19 - Apr 9 by WeWereZombies |
Viv Anderson was the first black player to play for England but there could have been one much earlier than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Leslie_(English_footballer)
The Wikipedia page does not go into details but I read some years ago that Jack Leslie got called up for England due to glowing reports of his scoring record at Plymouth but the selectors had never seen him play. The lad travels up from the south west to report for training and suddenly the England backroom staff realise that he is 'a man of colour' so send him back to Plymouth.
If memory serves me Colin Viljoen played in the same team as Johnny Miller, I never heard of there being a problem between them but I read either on this forum or Pride of Anglia that it was specifically Brian Talbot who objected to Viljoen being selected for the Cup Final team. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a recollection of Viljoen being bow legged, I think they are getting him mixed up with someone else. |
The one bow-legged player I do remember from the late 60's & early 70's is Jimmy Robertson. |  |
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| Colin Viljoen on 18:11 - Apr 9 with 5196 views | jaykay |
| Colin Viljoen on 17:57 - Apr 9 by MedwayTractor |
The one bow-legged player I do remember from the late 60's & early 70's is Jimmy Robertson. |
there has only been one proper bowed player for the town and that was sticks . he could never stop a pig in a alleyway |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Colin Viljoen on 18:23 - Apr 9 with 5182 views | PhilTWTD |
| Colin Viljoen on 08:31 - May 23 by itfcjoe |
I've heard more that it was just local boys who didn't get a chance, a couple of whom happened to be black in Louie and Ruel. We were much more interested in North East and Scotland rather than what was on our doorstep.
It didn't serve us badly, but may have been unpopular with the better boys in the area. |
Ruel told me he ended up at Norwich as Town didn't have a team at a particular level when he was a schoolboy and they did at the time. He had previously been with Town, I think he said. |  | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 18:53 - Apr 9 with 5151 views | leon_viljoen |
| Colin Viljoen on 16:56 - Apr 9 by Meadowlark |
I assume that you are really his son. If so, please can you fill us in on what happened to him after Ipswich? I am genuinely interested. Like others who started supporting the Town in the late 60s we all agree he was our best player for many seasons. |
He is currently between Barcelona several months of the year and back home in Cape town the rest He is still working with youth and had been for the longest bringing highly talented youth to the UK to play and he scouted. we do not y’all much these days, usually once or twice a year on my bday as I have been living in California USA since 1985.
ipswich will always be home to be as will woodbridge where i grew up while dad was playing for ITFC.
any other questions feel free to ask. Leon | | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 19:06 - Apr 9 with 5126 views | Meadowlark |
| Colin Viljoen on 18:53 - Apr 9 by leon_viljoen |
He is currently between Barcelona several months of the year and back home in Cape town the rest He is still working with youth and had been for the longest bringing highly talented youth to the UK to play and he scouted. we do not y’all much these days, usually once or twice a year on my bday as I have been living in California USA since 1985.
ipswich will always be home to be as will woodbridge where i grew up while dad was playing for ITFC.
any other questions feel free to ask. Leon |
Interesting. Thanks.
Does he ever make it back to the player re-union dinners? I think there was one a couple of weeks back. I assume he is invited - if the club know how to contact him? | | | |
| Colin Viljoen on 19:15 - Apr 9 with 5117 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Colin Viljoen on 16:57 - Apr 9 by GeoffSentence |
How times change, you are unlikely to hear " his career quickly petered out at Man City. "* now.
*Wrighty excepted. |
He left City and joined Chelsea.
TWTD when those two clubs were considered a step down from Ipswich. |  |
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