| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:07 - Nov 3 with 4339 views | Footballpete |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 17:48 - Nov 2 by GlasgowBlue |
You don't get to define what Zionism is. It has a definition. The belief in a Jewish homeland in the land of Israel.
I am a Zionist and I believe that Israel should return to it's pre 1967 borders. I believe that the settlements are illegal. I also believe that the blockade of Gaza should end.
With regards to the Nation State Law? It was Bibi being Trumpesque by making a gesture that was fairly cosmetic. Most of its provisions were already on the law books and have been purely been restated in the new law from existing legislation. The appearance of the Israeli flag, the national anthem and the state symbol were already the subject of a law from 1949. The provision declaring Jerusalem as Israel’s capital was incorporated in full from the Basic Law on Jerusalem, the Capital of Israel.
There were parts that were dropped at the last minute. The section on reference by the courts to Jewish religious law already appears in the law on the foundations of the legal system. Also dropped was a provision that would have permitted the creation of Jewish-only communities.
Does the Nation State Law make Israel an apartheid state? No.
Arabs and other minorities are full citizens, have equal voting rights, and sit in the Knesset. Arabs serve as Ministers, Army Officers, Police officers and Judges. Universities and hospitals are also integrated.
You can go to any bar, restaurant or beach in Israel and find a mix of Jews, Arabs and other ethnic grouping.
Is Israel perfect? Absolutely not. There is certainly inequality in Israel and it's worsened under Bibi. But it's far from an apartheid state.
Sadly, a thread about racism against British Jews by members of a party that hopes to form the next government has been hijacked into a debate on the rights and wrongs of Israel. It's not a debate I want to engage in and it should be completely separate from the debate on antisemitism.
In instances such as this one I refer to David Schneider's basic test for antisemitism.
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This is getting ridiculous now. Zionism is a political ideology with many different strands. Nobody says to you "you don't get to define what socialism is", as if socialists are some kind of persecuted minority. If you don't want people to move on to Israel / Palestine in a discussion on antisemitism, then don't talk of Zionism as though it is an integral part of Judaism, and don't insist that everybody must accept a definition of antisemitism that cites Israel in 7 of its 11 examples. |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:07 - Nov 3 with 4337 views | jimmyvet |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 07:59 - Nov 3 by No9 |
It is important to note this recurring thread only addresses antisemitism in one political party not antisemitism per se.
That surely is an unhealthy agenda? |
It’s because its deeply rooted in the official opposition party led by a leaderships with very dark and questionable ties to antisemitism and still you deny and try and detract from it |  | | |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:11 - Nov 3 with 4252 views | No9 |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:07 - Nov 3 by jimmyvet |
It’s because its deeply rooted in the official opposition party led by a leaderships with very dark and questionable ties to antisemitism and still you deny and try and detract from it |
Where am I defending anti semitism, quite the reverse by asking why, when it is obviously present in all walks of life and on the right of todays conservative party, do these threads have to be aimed at just one section of society?
By doing that the others are off the hook.
Even you should be able to understand that? | | | |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:28 - Nov 3 with 4251 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 07:39 - Nov 3 by jimmyvet |
The denial on here by some of the huge problem that is engrained in the far left with antisemitism and the current labour leadership says it all really absolutely no acceptance of a problem the whole world can see clearly and it’s very scary and very dangerous if I was part of the Jewish faith right now in the UK I would be very very frightened that the opposition and many of its supporters hold such views |
.....I think I would be somewhat more concerned with the unfolding global shift to xenophobic, right wing nationalism.....maybe it's just me though! |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:33 - Nov 3 with 4243 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:07 - Nov 3 by Footballpete |
This is getting ridiculous now. Zionism is a political ideology with many different strands. Nobody says to you "you don't get to define what socialism is", as if socialists are some kind of persecuted minority. If you don't want people to move on to Israel / Palestine in a discussion on antisemitism, then don't talk of Zionism as though it is an integral part of Judaism, and don't insist that everybody must accept a definition of antisemitism that cites Israel in 7 of its 11 examples. |
This has been ridiculous for a long time!....also an excellent point regarding the examples! | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:34 - Nov 3 with 4302 views | jimmyvet |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:28 - Nov 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
.....I think I would be somewhat more concerned with the unfolding global shift to xenophobic, right wing nationalism.....maybe it's just me though! |
Really so the murder of 6 million jews in Europe less than 80 years ago and the sudden rise of threats of rape torture murder towards the jewish faith and the denial of the murder of 6 million jews by a huge number of the Queens opposition party and you are more concerned about extremism in other countries ....I find that bizarre | | | |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:41 - Nov 3 with 4234 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:34 - Nov 3 by jimmyvet |
Really so the murder of 6 million jews in Europe less than 80 years ago and the sudden rise of threats of rape torture murder towards the jewish faith and the denial of the murder of 6 million jews by a huge number of the Queens opposition party and you are more concerned about extremism in other countries ....I find that bizarre |
Do they let anybody look after the medical needs of animals these days!
How many Labour party members exactly have threatened rape, torture and murder?
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:52 - Nov 3 with 4203 views | No9 |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:34 - Nov 3 by jimmyvet |
Really so the murder of 6 million jews in Europe less than 80 years ago and the sudden rise of threats of rape torture murder towards the jewish faith and the denial of the murder of 6 million jews by a huge number of the Queens opposition party and you are more concerned about extremism in other countries ....I find that bizarre |
No one in their right mind would deny the holocaust
But there are a considerable numbers of people who overlook the right wing activities in South America
How many millions have been murdered or tortured on that continent due to right win philosophies and it looks like it's about toe g about itet a whole lot worse - do you condemn that ? It is happening here & now what do you propose to do? | | | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 09:27 - Nov 3 with 4253 views | lowhouseblue |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 22:28 - Nov 2 by Darth_Koont |
No, you haven't — you've played your usual games and addressed nothing I've said. You're intent on playing with antisemitism, silly misrepresentations of my views and pathetic accusations.
On a related note, I hope you never have anything meaningful to do with party politics again. You and the other fanboys are a waste of space and hugely responsible for where we are now. This country needs people with standards who think politics is about finding truths and helping people rather than spreading bullsh!t and helping yourself.
COYB! |
in terms of my 'usual games' all i have done is put your words back to you. i put them back in a form that shows their absurdity. it's actually quite a well known form of discourse that has been around for a few thousand years - look it up. the idea is that you then show why your words are not wrong or absurd. but instead you just whinge about being challenged on what you've said. it's not fair, i didn't mean to say that.
i am not playing with anti-semitism - recent events have genuinely been a watershed moment in my political life. for the first time i have seen the extent to which so many on the liberal progressive left will at least turn a blind eye to, dismiss, and excuse this form of racism. i genuinely believed that the left was above this and to discover it isn't is shocking. that's why it's a big issue for me and many others.
in terms of your simply abusive further point, your political involvement seems to be limited to using a keyboard to dismiss and excuse anti-semitism while at the same time blaming it on israel. that someone like you dismisses active party politics and those who take part in it is great - thank you. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 09:48 - Nov 3 with 4213 views | Darth_Koont |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 09:27 - Nov 3 by lowhouseblue |
in terms of my 'usual games' all i have done is put your words back to you. i put them back in a form that shows their absurdity. it's actually quite a well known form of discourse that has been around for a few thousand years - look it up. the idea is that you then show why your words are not wrong or absurd. but instead you just whinge about being challenged on what you've said. it's not fair, i didn't mean to say that.
i am not playing with anti-semitism - recent events have genuinely been a watershed moment in my political life. for the first time i have seen the extent to which so many on the liberal progressive left will at least turn a blind eye to, dismiss, and excuse this form of racism. i genuinely believed that the left was above this and to discover it isn't is shocking. that's why it's a big issue for me and many others.
in terms of your simply abusive further point, your political involvement seems to be limited to using a keyboard to dismiss and excuse anti-semitism while at the same time blaming it on israel. that someone like you dismisses active party politics and those who take part in it is great - thank you. |
Utter rubbish. I've written at length to be clear about context, answered points when asked and been straightforward throughout.
Meanwhile you've been picked up for being disingenuous. |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 10:07 - Nov 3 with 4156 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 11:08 - Nov 3 with 4147 views | WeWereZombies |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 23:10 - Nov 2 by Seablu |
I find GlasgowBlue to be an appalling agenda-driven blight on this forum and I'm glad it is finally dawning on people.
When your only allies are an equally myopic individual such as lowhouseblue & a sub-stupid bigot from Great Bentley, you just have to be a wrong 'un. |
I rarely agree with Benters but your description of him is out of order. |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 11:43 - Nov 3 with 4082 views | Seablu |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 00:03 - Nov 3 by Ryorry |
Don't forget me, and feel free to call me anythng you like, I really don't care! 
Whilst GB can be incredibly annoying & slippery in political discussions (have had a run-in or two with him in the past), I have no doubt whatsoever that his passion on this topic is driven by personal experience relating to his family & his natural drive to protect them (see G Ulla's post also and my response to that, about half way thru the thread so far). I do also think, as GB has said many times, that there's a tendency these days (and not just in the UK) for antisemitism to be not as quickly and ruthlessly stamped on as other forms of 'isms'. It may well be that it's convenient for him that Corbyn and Labour are being focussed on, but I'm 100% sure that's just a side bonus for him rather than being his main driver. |
No desire to call you anything. You're just background noise with an obsession for up arrows.
I'd file you under 'meh' |  | | |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:18 - Nov 3 with 4057 views | Jonnosdreadlocks |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:28 - Nov 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
.....I think I would be somewhat more concerned with the unfolding global shift to xenophobic, right wing nationalism.....maybe it's just me though! |
So where exactly are these supposes FAR right, xenophobic places where death camps are being set up, beheadings, throwing gay people off buildings are taking place, executing women for blasphemy taking place? In Trump's USA, Salvini's Italy, in Boris Johnson's back lawn no, because it's FAKE news coming from left wing news outlets such as CNN, Channel 4, parts of the BBC. Wanting to keep strong borders, your own identity, controlling immigration is not xenophobic or racist.
Corbyn and his cronies have a track record of supporting murderous types like the Ira and Hammas, real fascists, and 'bigots' who kill people who dare question their ideologies or beliefs. Anti semitic is anti jewish, it means they want to destroy the state of Israel which is founded as state for the Jewish people. This is compounded by the likes of Hammas and other radical Islamist groups who not only hate Jews but any one who does not conform to their twisted views of Islam. When their likes establish a caliphate in Europe, the likes of Corbyn and co, (in fact anyone who does not share their views will get treated like anyone who doesn't convert to their belief system, ie killed). There is also another layer of hatred towards Jews from the left and it comes from resentment and hatred towards Jews as many have influence on big business, banks, companies especially in the USA. It is nothing more than jealousy. As for Seablu's aimed comment towards Benters isn't it about time this board's admin treated people fairly because at the moment it seems certain people can 'get offended' or report abuse yet others seemingly not so. No one expects everyone to get on politically on here but it is an ITFC Football forum but it seems of late to have a bias towards a certain political persuasion. Perhaps indicative of our society these days, who knows.. |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:24 - Nov 3 with 4046 views | Ryorry |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 08:28 - Nov 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
.....I think I would be somewhat more concerned with the unfolding global shift to xenophobic, right wing nationalism.....maybe it's just me though! |
They aren't mutually exclusive - plenty of room to be concerned with both (and other things too). |  |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:56 - Nov 3 with 4003 views | Darth_Koont |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:18 - Nov 3 by Jonnosdreadlocks |
So where exactly are these supposes FAR right, xenophobic places where death camps are being set up, beheadings, throwing gay people off buildings are taking place, executing women for blasphemy taking place? In Trump's USA, Salvini's Italy, in Boris Johnson's back lawn no, because it's FAKE news coming from left wing news outlets such as CNN, Channel 4, parts of the BBC. Wanting to keep strong borders, your own identity, controlling immigration is not xenophobic or racist.
Corbyn and his cronies have a track record of supporting murderous types like the Ira and Hammas, real fascists, and 'bigots' who kill people who dare question their ideologies or beliefs. Anti semitic is anti jewish, it means they want to destroy the state of Israel which is founded as state for the Jewish people. This is compounded by the likes of Hammas and other radical Islamist groups who not only hate Jews but any one who does not conform to their twisted views of Islam. When their likes establish a caliphate in Europe, the likes of Corbyn and co, (in fact anyone who does not share their views will get treated like anyone who doesn't convert to their belief system, ie killed). There is also another layer of hatred towards Jews from the left and it comes from resentment and hatred towards Jews as many have influence on big business, banks, companies especially in the USA. It is nothing more than jealousy. As for Seablu's aimed comment towards Benters isn't it about time this board's admin treated people fairly because at the moment it seems certain people can 'get offended' or report abuse yet others seemingly not so. No one expects everyone to get on politically on here but it is an ITFC Football forum but it seems of late to have a bias towards a certain political persuasion. Perhaps indicative of our society these days, who knows.. |
You have a bias towards made-up nonsense, if that helps.
That's seriously one of the silliest posts ever on here. | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:09 - Nov 3 with 3985 views | Jonnosdreadlocks |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 09:27 - Nov 3 by lowhouseblue |
in terms of my 'usual games' all i have done is put your words back to you. i put them back in a form that shows their absurdity. it's actually quite a well known form of discourse that has been around for a few thousand years - look it up. the idea is that you then show why your words are not wrong or absurd. but instead you just whinge about being challenged on what you've said. it's not fair, i didn't mean to say that.
i am not playing with anti-semitism - recent events have genuinely been a watershed moment in my political life. for the first time i have seen the extent to which so many on the liberal progressive left will at least turn a blind eye to, dismiss, and excuse this form of racism. i genuinely believed that the left was above this and to discover it isn't is shocking. that's why it's a big issue for me and many others.
in terms of your simply abusive further point, your political involvement seems to be limited to using a keyboard to dismiss and excuse anti-semitism while at the same time blaming it on israel. that someone like you dismisses active party politics and those who take part in it is great - thank you. |
Darth Koont, the guy who calls someone who he disagrees with a 'Daft Racist'. Who thinks Scottish Nationalism is fine but English Nationalism is far right.. unbelievable [Post edited 3 Nov 2018 13:10]
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:11 - Nov 3 with 3966 views | Darth_Koont |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:09 - Nov 3 by Jonnosdreadlocks |
Darth Koont, the guy who calls someone who he disagrees with a 'Daft Racist'. Who thinks Scottish Nationalism is fine but English Nationalism is far right.. unbelievable [Post edited 3 Nov 2018 13:10]
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Hehe. 2nd place.
If you can't recognise the difference between the SNP and EDL both in theory and practice then you need to do a LOT of reading. | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:29 - Nov 3 with 3932 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:24 - Nov 3 by Ryorry |
They aren't mutually exclusive - plenty of room to be concerned with both (and other things too). |
.....but not to give equal weight to them! | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:29 - Nov 3 with 3939 views | Darth_Koont |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:30 - Nov 3 with 3926 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:18 - Nov 3 by Jonnosdreadlocks |
So where exactly are these supposes FAR right, xenophobic places where death camps are being set up, beheadings, throwing gay people off buildings are taking place, executing women for blasphemy taking place? In Trump's USA, Salvini's Italy, in Boris Johnson's back lawn no, because it's FAKE news coming from left wing news outlets such as CNN, Channel 4, parts of the BBC. Wanting to keep strong borders, your own identity, controlling immigration is not xenophobic or racist.
Corbyn and his cronies have a track record of supporting murderous types like the Ira and Hammas, real fascists, and 'bigots' who kill people who dare question their ideologies or beliefs. Anti semitic is anti jewish, it means they want to destroy the state of Israel which is founded as state for the Jewish people. This is compounded by the likes of Hammas and other radical Islamist groups who not only hate Jews but any one who does not conform to their twisted views of Islam. When their likes establish a caliphate in Europe, the likes of Corbyn and co, (in fact anyone who does not share their views will get treated like anyone who doesn't convert to their belief system, ie killed). There is also another layer of hatred towards Jews from the left and it comes from resentment and hatred towards Jews as many have influence on big business, banks, companies especially in the USA. It is nothing more than jealousy. As for Seablu's aimed comment towards Benters isn't it about time this board's admin treated people fairly because at the moment it seems certain people can 'get offended' or report abuse yet others seemingly not so. No one expects everyone to get on politically on here but it is an ITFC Football forum but it seems of late to have a bias towards a certain political persuasion. Perhaps indicative of our society these days, who knows.. |
My this is going well......who told you to think that?
Agree on the Benters bit though. | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:34 - Nov 3 with 3926 views | Ryorry |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 12:56 - Nov 3 by Darth_Koont |
You have a bias towards made-up nonsense, if that helps.
That's seriously one of the silliest posts ever on here. |
He's right about the name-calling though. Can only assume P & G have been too busy for this thread. | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:34 - Nov 3 with 3914 views | Darth_Koont |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 11:08 - Nov 3 by WeWereZombies |
I rarely agree with Benters but your description of him is out of order. |
Benters self-identifies as an ignorant bigot so would be disrespectful to call him anything else.
On a more serious note it's a little harsh. But only a little IMO. | |
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| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:35 - Nov 3 with 3909 views | Darth_Koont |
| A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:34 - Nov 3 by Ryorry |
He's right about the name-calling though. Can only assume P & G have been too busy for this thread. |
See my answer to Zombers. | |
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