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A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:45 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
Unfortunately, Gav hasn't yet managed to devise a system for up or downvoting different parts of the same posts. Perhaps in the next update ...
Why upvote a barmy post if you only agree with 5% of it?
And what part of Lowers post did you agree with when he swerved answering me and instead tried to re-direct the discussion? By showing the Swastika-Star of David poster again and then heavily editorialising what I wrote so it now sounds as if I DON'T think it's antisemitic.
Seriously ...
Pronouns: He/Him
-2
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:00 - Nov 3 with 4862 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 13:55 - Nov 3 by Darth_Koont
Why upvote a barmy post if you only agree with 5% of it?
And what part of Lowers post did you agree with when he swerved answering me and instead tried to re-direct the discussion? By showing the Swastika-Star of David poster again and then heavily editorialising what I wrote so it now sounds as if I DON'T think it's antisemitic.
Seriously ...
Why don't you ask everyone on the thread to justify their votes? Have you looked at all of them?Would be interesting to see the replies of all those who've voted on it.
As for my own, you're ascribing far too much weight to them - sometimes I'm simply in a hurry & do them as a shorthand way of acknowledging a post. Probably a bit too fb-like tbf.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:00 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
Why don't you ask everyone on the thread to justify their votes? Have you looked at all of them?Would be interesting to see the replies of all those who've voted on it.
As for my own, you're ascribing far too much weight to them - sometimes I'm simply in a hurry & do them as a shorthand way of acknowledging a post. Probably a bit too fb-like tbf.
I noticed because those 2 awful posts are in different ways exactly what is wrong with the debate you're trying to preserve.
Not sure upvotes should be given in a hurry just to "acknowledge a post". Either you agree with it on the whole or you don't.
Pronouns: He/Him
1
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:18 - Nov 3 with 4755 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:07 - Nov 3 by Darth_Koont
I noticed because those 2 awful posts are in different ways exactly what is wrong with the debate you're trying to preserve.
Not sure upvotes should be given in a hurry just to "acknowledge a post". Either you agree with it on the whole or you don't.
You're being incredibly selective. Suggest you take another look right through. And I'm not trying to "preserve" anything, - I simply suggested right at the outset that it would be good if mudslinging were avoided, to keep the debate to a decent quality. Unfortunately it hasn't been.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:18 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
You're being incredibly selective. Suggest you take another look right through. And I'm not trying to "preserve" anything, - I simply suggested right at the outset that it would be good if mudslinging were avoided, to keep the debate to a decent quality. Unfortunately it hasn't been.
No, I'm responding to the points you yourself are making. Nothing selective about it at all.
Pronouns: He/Him
-1
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:27 - Nov 3 with 4815 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 14:18 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
You're being incredibly selective. Suggest you take another look right through. And I'm not trying to "preserve" anything, - I simply suggested right at the outset that it would be good if mudslinging were avoided, to keep the debate to a decent quality. Unfortunately it hasn't been.
I agree. It adds nothing to debate and makes the perpetrators look foolish.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 20:52 - Nov 2 by J2BLUE
Thanks for the reply, it's much better with a bit of context as the meme on its own is bloody stupid.
I hope we can agree though that however differently people interpret these things, Dolly and Footers are not anti-Semitic. You can't ignore their entire posting history to make a judgement on a couple of sentences. Don't take this the wrong way but you've posted many 'total proof' posts which have left many of us unconvinced.
Where to start?
I prefer to limit my weekend posting time to football related matters but there are a few things I’d like to address in your post.
Firstly, I haven’t accused either Dolly or Footers of being anti-Semites. I have said that they have used words that stray into the realms of anti-Semitism. They have.
Let’s start with Dolly and what he has posted on this thread. I’ve taken him off ignore to read his posts on this thread again. And by doing so I can see he is continuing to double down on his offensive views.
Now I have explained on numerous occasions that although I’m not Jewish myself I am of Jewish descent with a Jewish surname. I have also explained that my wife is half Jewish and therefore my children have Jewish blood. So to constantly have my motives questioned with regards to this subject is offensive if said once or twice. When it is questioned by the same poster Ad infinitum, it takes on a far more sinister tone.
Imagine a poster of Afro Caribbean descent with an obvious African surname who was married to a woman of mixed race, and they had been highlighting racism towards the afro Cariban community in the UK from the BNP or UKip. Now imagine that another poster constantly called into question their motives for highlighting that racism. The great and the good of TWTD would call that poster out as a racist.
Dolly has one MO when it comes to this subject. Ignore the issue and play the man. He’s done it ever since the subject of Antisemitism in the Labour party became a talking point on the board. It took another poster, Ryorry to point out that I have been posting on this subject for over ten years, that’s a good seven and a half years before Dolly had ever heard of Jeremy Corbyn.
So Dolly’s first contribution to this thread was once again to attack the man. “I don't remember seeing you linking to this example of Conservative racism and antisemitism recently”. He even linked an article to support his argument. I had actually been the first to comment on and condemn when it happened at the time.
Boris is on (n/t) by GlasgowBlue3 Oct 2018 11:41 And in the interest of balance I would hope these utter scumbags have their membership of the Conservative party revoked immediately.
What makes human beings act in this appalling and disgusting manner?
I really shouldn’t have to justify myself to that buffoon but again I’ve condemned racism when highlighted in the Tory party. Whether it was Boris and his racist remarks regarding the Burka, recent misogynist comments or the Tories loathsome support in the EU Parliament for Orban. I was the first on here to condemn May for her anti-immigrant rhetoric long before most on here had even heard of her.
Unfortunately, it’s too late though. He’s gone for the man rather than addressing the subject.
His next contribution was to suggest that the Tories pressured the police into starting an investigation into antisemitism within the Labour party. Which is why I replied with the LAS meme that we discussed previously. By trying to portray the issue as a Tory led conspiracy he's dismissing a minority who have been highlighting this ever growing issue for the past two and a half years.
He then continued with a post that is not only offensive but racist “It actually came across as though he'd only just realised his wife was half Jewish and he thought "ooh, I can add that in to show I'm not just doing this because I'm anti-Corbyn... I can even bring the kids into it too - much more emotive"
(FYI Dollers you are an absolute disgrace to talk about my wife and kids like that)
So with regards to Dolly, I stand by what I said. I don’t think he’s an anti-Semite but he has strayed dangerously into using antisemitic language.
Next up footers. On a thread where I am highlighting antisemitism towards British Jews he goes for the “I wonder if Glassers et al support the creation and international recognition of the Palestinian state as a homeland for persecuted Palestinians who also have the right to self-determination.”
WTF does that have to do with highlighting antisemtism?
Just think about that for a minute. At best it is whataboutery. But it’s whataboutery with antisemitic undertones. It’s no more acceptable than a man of Asian descent complaining about Islamophobia being challenged by “But what about your views on IS and the 9/11 attack”? Racism isn’t it? So why should the same criteria not be afforded to the Jewish community?
An Irish man on the receiving end of racial abuse in England. “Well that’s all well and good but what are your views on the IRA murdering children? Where do you stand on this?”
Really J2. Why should somebody who is complaining about antisemitism have their views on the Israeli/Palestine conflict brought into question? It's irrelevant.
But not being satisfied with using antisemitic whataboutery once he then goes on to suggest that the British Jewish community could alleviate antisemitic attacks against them by lobbying the British government to recognise Palestine.
Imagine suggesting to the Muslim Council of Great Britain that if they don’t want to be on the end of Islamophobic attacks or abuse all they have to do is speak out against Islamic terrorism. When that has been suggested on here it has been called out as racism. Plain and simple. No iffs and no buts.
But again with Footers, I don’t think he’s antisemitic. But he is a symptom of why anti-Semitism is so prevalent in today’s Labour party and the left in general. They aren’t out and out Jew haters in the same way that people in the EDL are Muslim haters. They don’t realise they are doing it.
But what starts with interchanging Jew/Zionist/Israel in the conversation goes on to holding non Israeli Jews to account for what happens in Israel. Then Jewish Labour MP’s are in the pay of Israel. That spills into the Jewish lobby controlling the media and politics. Then it’s holocaust revision (Not six million but 1.5 million. This is a favourite on Labour social media sites). Then it’s holocaust denial. Hitler was right. Soft antisemitic language and tropes are a gateway drug to the much harder and more sinister stuff.
I see this day after day on Labour/Pro Corbyn social media forums.
BTW I’m not suggesting for one minute that footers has gone down that route. But the two points he made in the context of the thread were antisemitic in tone. I would hope he’d reflect on that.
I’m slightly confused by the last line of your reply: “Don't take this the wrong way but you've posted many 'total proof' posts which have left many of us unconvinced”.
That Labour doesn’t have a serious problem with anti-Semitism and that has increased significantly since Jeremy Corbyn was elected as leader? I’m not sure what more proof you need. But since you asked:
Let’s start with Sir Trevor Philips, former head of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. Somebody who knows a damn sight more about racism than you or I. He says that “It doesn’t help that one of our great parties, the one that I belong to, is led by anti-Semites and racists, who basically want to essentially eliminate anyone who disagrees with them.”
Or that well known right wing Blairite Tory, Peter Tatchell
For all of us who support Jeremy Corbyn’s UK social justice policies, his repeated praise for, & collusion with, anti-semites & Islamist fascists is very disturbing. He has NEVER recanted or apologised. READ this expose https://t.co/DJ0wgPECUm via @leftfootfwd & @J_Bloodworth
"I gave Corbyn the benefit of the doubt on antisemitism. I can’t any more" - powerful piece from @shattenstone who, like me, has defended Corbyn up until now but, like me, struggles to defend his 'Zionist' remarks that have emerged from 2013.https://t.co/vHms7zKlcS
or these examples of Labour’s antisemitism issue? Proof enough? Do you remain unconvinced? (This doesn’t include the links I’m posted yesterday. Those alone should have convinced you anyway).
Many of these abhorrent racists have been let off by Labour, are free to peddle their revolting views about Jews to the public.
— Gnasher(Lobster)Jew #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) October 7, 2018
More from the cesspit. This isn't even subtle. This is 100% a classic antisemitic trope - and from a Momentum-backed member of Labour's National Policy Forum. Will swift action be taken @jeremycorbyn@JennieGenSec? pic.twitter.com/0fNui8fq38
Ladies and Gentleman. A Labour Councillor in 2018. But yeah. All just a smear. pic.twitter.com/4ixVLHuVQn
— Adam Langleben 🇪🇺 (@adamlangleben) July 27, 2018
Cllr Damien Enticott from Bognor, uses a picture (we believe from Syria) to illustrate his belief that “Hitler had a point†& Zionists (read Jews) should be “put in concentration campsâ€. Which party does he represent? @UKLabourpic.twitter.com/wJRntBohVm
If you don't look at his below comments and agree with that statement of truth, then you're either a moron, a willing accomplice to aiding and abetting an antisemite, or both. https://t.co/enxHbhNssJpic.twitter.com/seZjHRwYNz
The video released today of the leader of @UKLabour making inexcusable comments - defended by a party spokesman - makes me as a proud British Jew feel unwelcome in my own party. I’ve lived in Britain all my life and I don’t need any lessons in history/irony.
This is the single most astonishing front page we’ve run at @JewishChron in my decade here. It is totally without precedent. Our paper has been published since 1841. @JewishNewsUK and @JewishTelegraph are our rivals - in name, in business, and on stories pic.twitter.com/peRUPRnqIX
Wow! Just wow! @jeremycorbyn was a sponsor of a campaign to eradicate Zionism, that refers to Israel as “the Zionist state.†If this is true it’s quite obvious why @UKLabour has a #LabourAntisemitism Corbyn has endorsed the eradication of Zionist Jews and Israel. https://t.co/CmSKEDpm1i
How about the time that Corbyn invited James Thring, Neo Nazi, friend of David Duke and defender of David Irving, to speak at one of his events?
So many of my parents East End friends were brilliant, funny, radical, Jewish intellectuals and Labour members whose lives had been scarred by the nazis and antisemitism. There’d be no room for them in today’s Party and that makes me angry, disgusted and a bit frightened.
I put it to you that this theme of “if the Jews succeed in preventing this principled man from doing good for us all, they’ll face inevitable consequences†taps straight into traditional Christian antisemitism about us Jews having to pay for being “Christ Killers†pic.twitter.com/dCsv3CqFgB
*New* @jeremycorbyn appears to have lied, when he said he didn’t realise he was listed as “UK convenor†of an org, who supported a convicted Holocaust Denier.
In 1996 he authored a paper, submitted to them, well after they defended Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy. https://t.co/BVTzfmL3P7
— Gnasher(Lobster)Jew #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) August 8, 2018
This anonymous note arrived at my office this week. Yet more evidence of how modern antisemitism and anti-Zionism are inextricably linked. I feel anger and sadness. #EnoughIsEnoughpic.twitter.com/TGC1fn29Qh
a former scottish labour mp, here, explaining that he no longer respects jews or feels empathy for their historic suffering. pic.twitter.com/gN1YAQ6hqe
No @emmacpicken. What is anti-British is, after opening up our country and homes to Jews fleeing Europe. Britain Jews @LouiseEllman are being more loyal to Israel than their home country. Not one outcry from them when Israel staffed its embassy with spies to *take down* our MPs. https://t.co/pku7HkxqZF
Corbyn defended Reverend Stephen Sizer, who was banned by church authorities from social media for repeatedly sharing antisemitic material including the racist conspiracy theory of blaming Israel for 9-11. CofE described his comments as ‘clearly antisemitic’. >>
JC EXCLUSIVE: Polling carried out for the @jewishchron by @Survation shows that 38.5% of UK Jews would “seriously consider†emigrating “if Jeremy Corbyn became Prime Ministerâ€.
Hi. I can't stand by any more and not say something. I have a large public platform and I try to use it for good. But what good is all the rest of the 'good' if I stay quiet on one of the biggest and most dangerous atrocities facing our country today? Take a seat.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 15:29 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue
Where to start?
I prefer to limit my weekend posting time to football related matters but there are a few things I’d like to address in your post.
Firstly, I haven’t accused either Dolly or Footers of being anti-Semites. I have said that they have used words that stray into the realms of anti-Semitism. They have.
Let’s start with Dolly and what he has posted on this thread. I’ve taken him off ignore to read his posts on this thread again. And by doing so I can see he is continuing to double down on his offensive views.
Now I have explained on numerous occasions that although I’m not Jewish myself I am of Jewish descent with a Jewish surname. I have also explained that my wife is half Jewish and therefore my children have Jewish blood. So to constantly have my motives questioned with regards to this subject is offensive if said once or twice. When it is questioned by the same poster Ad infinitum, it takes on a far more sinister tone.
Imagine a poster of Afro Caribbean descent with an obvious African surname who was married to a woman of mixed race, and they had been highlighting racism towards the afro Cariban community in the UK from the BNP or UKip. Now imagine that another poster constantly called into question their motives for highlighting that racism. The great and the good of TWTD would call that poster out as a racist.
Dolly has one MO when it comes to this subject. Ignore the issue and play the man. He’s done it ever since the subject of Antisemitism in the Labour party became a talking point on the board. It took another poster, Ryorry to point out that I have been posting on this subject for over ten years, that’s a good seven and a half years before Dolly had ever heard of Jeremy Corbyn.
So Dolly’s first contribution to this thread was once again to attack the man. “I don't remember seeing you linking to this example of Conservative racism and antisemitism recently”. He even linked an article to support his argument. I had actually been the first to comment on and condemn when it happened at the time.
Boris is on (n/t) by GlasgowBlue3 Oct 2018 11:41 And in the interest of balance I would hope these utter scumbags have their membership of the Conservative party revoked immediately.
What makes human beings act in this appalling and disgusting manner?
I really shouldn’t have to justify myself to that buffoon but again I’ve condemned racism when highlighted in the Tory party. Whether it was Boris and his racist remarks regarding the Burka, recent misogynist comments or the Tories loathsome support in the EU Parliament for Orban. I was the first on here to condemn May for her anti-immigrant rhetoric long before most on here had even heard of her.
Unfortunately, it’s too late though. He’s gone for the man rather than addressing the subject.
His next contribution was to suggest that the Tories pressured the police into starting an investigation into antisemitism within the Labour party. Which is why I replied with the LAS meme that we discussed previously. By trying to portray the issue as a Tory led conspiracy he's dismissing a minority who have been highlighting this ever growing issue for the past two and a half years.
He then continued with a post that is not only offensive but racist “It actually came across as though he'd only just realised his wife was half Jewish and he thought "ooh, I can add that in to show I'm not just doing this because I'm anti-Corbyn... I can even bring the kids into it too - much more emotive"
(FYI Dollers you are an absolute disgrace to talk about my wife and kids like that)
So with regards to Dolly, I stand by what I said. I don’t think he’s an anti-Semite but he has strayed dangerously into using antisemitic language.
Next up footers. On a thread where I am highlighting antisemitism towards British Jews he goes for the “I wonder if Glassers et al support the creation and international recognition of the Palestinian state as a homeland for persecuted Palestinians who also have the right to self-determination.”
WTF does that have to do with highlighting antisemtism?
Just think about that for a minute. At best it is whataboutery. But it’s whataboutery with antisemitic undertones. It’s no more acceptable than a man of Asian descent complaining about Islamophobia being challenged by “But what about your views on IS and the 9/11 attack”? Racism isn’t it? So why should the same criteria not be afforded to the Jewish community?
An Irish man on the receiving end of racial abuse in England. “Well that’s all well and good but what are your views on the IRA murdering children? Where do you stand on this?”
Really J2. Why should somebody who is complaining about antisemitism have their views on the Israeli/Palestine conflict brought into question? It's irrelevant.
But not being satisfied with using antisemitic whataboutery once he then goes on to suggest that the British Jewish community could alleviate antisemitic attacks against them by lobbying the British government to recognise Palestine.
Imagine suggesting to the Muslim Council of Great Britain that if they don’t want to be on the end of Islamophobic attacks or abuse all they have to do is speak out against Islamic terrorism. When that has been suggested on here it has been called out as racism. Plain and simple. No iffs and no buts.
But again with Footers, I don’t think he’s antisemitic. But he is a symptom of why anti-Semitism is so prevalent in today’s Labour party and the left in general. They aren’t out and out Jew haters in the same way that people in the EDL are Muslim haters. They don’t realise they are doing it.
But what starts with interchanging Jew/Zionist/Israel in the conversation goes on to holding non Israeli Jews to account for what happens in Israel. Then Jewish Labour MP’s are in the pay of Israel. That spills into the Jewish lobby controlling the media and politics. Then it’s holocaust revision (Not six million but 1.5 million. This is a favourite on Labour social media sites). Then it’s holocaust denial. Hitler was right. Soft antisemitic language and tropes are a gateway drug to the much harder and more sinister stuff.
I see this day after day on Labour/Pro Corbyn social media forums.
BTW I’m not suggesting for one minute that footers has gone down that route. But the two points he made in the context of the thread were antisemitic in tone. I would hope he’d reflect on that.
I’m slightly confused by the last line of your reply: “Don't take this the wrong way but you've posted many 'total proof' posts which have left many of us unconvinced”.
That Labour doesn’t have a serious problem with anti-Semitism and that has increased significantly since Jeremy Corbyn was elected as leader? I’m not sure what more proof you need. But since you asked:
Let’s start with Sir Trevor Philips, former head of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. Somebody who knows a damn sight more about racism than you or I. He says that “It doesn’t help that one of our great parties, the one that I belong to, is led by anti-Semites and racists, who basically want to essentially eliminate anyone who disagrees with them.”
Or that well known right wing Blairite Tory, Peter Tatchell
For all of us who support Jeremy Corbyn’s UK social justice policies, his repeated praise for, & collusion with, anti-semites & Islamist fascists is very disturbing. He has NEVER recanted or apologised. READ this expose https://t.co/DJ0wgPECUm via @leftfootfwd & @J_Bloodworth
"I gave Corbyn the benefit of the doubt on antisemitism. I can’t any more" - powerful piece from @shattenstone who, like me, has defended Corbyn up until now but, like me, struggles to defend his 'Zionist' remarks that have emerged from 2013.https://t.co/vHms7zKlcS
or these examples of Labour’s antisemitism issue? Proof enough? Do you remain unconvinced? (This doesn’t include the links I’m posted yesterday. Those alone should have convinced you anyway).
Many of these abhorrent racists have been let off by Labour, are free to peddle their revolting views about Jews to the public.
— Gnasher(Lobster)Jew #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) October 7, 2018
More from the cesspit. This isn't even subtle. This is 100% a classic antisemitic trope - and from a Momentum-backed member of Labour's National Policy Forum. Will swift action be taken @jeremycorbyn@JennieGenSec? pic.twitter.com/0fNui8fq38
Ladies and Gentleman. A Labour Councillor in 2018. But yeah. All just a smear. pic.twitter.com/4ixVLHuVQn
— Adam Langleben 🇪🇺 (@adamlangleben) July 27, 2018
Cllr Damien Enticott from Bognor, uses a picture (we believe from Syria) to illustrate his belief that “Hitler had a point†& Zionists (read Jews) should be “put in concentration campsâ€. Which party does he represent? @UKLabourpic.twitter.com/wJRntBohVm
If you don't look at his below comments and agree with that statement of truth, then you're either a moron, a willing accomplice to aiding and abetting an antisemite, or both. https://t.co/enxHbhNssJpic.twitter.com/seZjHRwYNz
The video released today of the leader of @UKLabour making inexcusable comments - defended by a party spokesman - makes me as a proud British Jew feel unwelcome in my own party. I’ve lived in Britain all my life and I don’t need any lessons in history/irony.
This is the single most astonishing front page we’ve run at @JewishChron in my decade here. It is totally without precedent. Our paper has been published since 1841. @JewishNewsUK and @JewishTelegraph are our rivals - in name, in business, and on stories pic.twitter.com/peRUPRnqIX
Wow! Just wow! @jeremycorbyn was a sponsor of a campaign to eradicate Zionism, that refers to Israel as “the Zionist state.†If this is true it’s quite obvious why @UKLabour has a #LabourAntisemitism Corbyn has endorsed the eradication of Zionist Jews and Israel. https://t.co/CmSKEDpm1i
How about the time that Corbyn invited James Thring, Neo Nazi, friend of David Duke and defender of David Irving, to speak at one of his events?
So many of my parents East End friends were brilliant, funny, radical, Jewish intellectuals and Labour members whose lives had been scarred by the nazis and antisemitism. There’d be no room for them in today’s Party and that makes me angry, disgusted and a bit frightened.
I put it to you that this theme of “if the Jews succeed in preventing this principled man from doing good for us all, they’ll face inevitable consequences†taps straight into traditional Christian antisemitism about us Jews having to pay for being “Christ Killers†pic.twitter.com/dCsv3CqFgB
*New* @jeremycorbyn appears to have lied, when he said he didn’t realise he was listed as “UK convenor†of an org, who supported a convicted Holocaust Denier.
In 1996 he authored a paper, submitted to them, well after they defended Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy. https://t.co/BVTzfmL3P7
— Gnasher(Lobster)Jew #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) August 8, 2018
This anonymous note arrived at my office this week. Yet more evidence of how modern antisemitism and anti-Zionism are inextricably linked. I feel anger and sadness. #EnoughIsEnoughpic.twitter.com/TGC1fn29Qh
a former scottish labour mp, here, explaining that he no longer respects jews or feels empathy for their historic suffering. pic.twitter.com/gN1YAQ6hqe
No @emmacpicken. What is anti-British is, after opening up our country and homes to Jews fleeing Europe. Britain Jews @LouiseEllman are being more loyal to Israel than their home country. Not one outcry from them when Israel staffed its embassy with spies to *take down* our MPs. https://t.co/pku7HkxqZF
Corbyn defended Reverend Stephen Sizer, who was banned by church authorities from social media for repeatedly sharing antisemitic material including the racist conspiracy theory of blaming Israel for 9-11. CofE described his comments as ‘clearly antisemitic’. >>
JC EXCLUSIVE: Polling carried out for the @jewishchron by @Survation shows that 38.5% of UK Jews would “seriously consider†emigrating “if Jeremy Corbyn became Prime Ministerâ€.
Hi. I can't stand by any more and not say something. I have a large public platform and I try to use it for good. But what good is all the rest of the 'good' if I stay quiet on one of the biggest and most dangerous atrocities facing our country today? Take a seat.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 17:50 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue
If it's Tuesday then there will also be a test.
Is the answer: Conflation?
Take your very best example of endemic antisemitism and let's look at it. We all know there are antisemites in all walks of life so the list proves you're obsessed more than anything else.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 18:31 - Nov 3 with 4574 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 15:08 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
It was only yourself who kicked off a whole thing about voting, I hadn't even mentioned it.
Kicked off? Behave.
If anyone started it, it's the person who upvoted cretinous posts and then talked about the seriousness of the debate. Just too much hypocrisy for my blood.
Pronouns: He/Him
-3
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 19:19 - Nov 3 with 4540 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 18:31 - Nov 3 by Darth_Koont
Kicked off? Behave.
If anyone started it, it's the person who upvoted cretinous posts and then talked about the seriousness of the debate. Just too much hypocrisy for my blood.
I'm sorry but all that post goes to prove is that you only read into things what you want to. I wrote "kicked off" meaning k/o - this is a football site, we were a few mins from k/o in our own rather important game, so that expression was kinda on my mind.
As for your accusing me of hypcrisy - the irony meter just shot through the roof and then bust open. I don't particularly mean you actually, but hundreds of people on here who really are hypocritical and who you don't pull up for it - quite the opposite.
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 19:19 - Nov 3 by Ryorry
I'm sorry but all that post goes to prove is that you only read into things what you want to. I wrote "kicked off" meaning k/o - this is a football site, we were a few mins from k/o in our own rather important game, so that expression was kinda on my mind.
As for your accusing me of hypcrisy - the irony meter just shot through the roof and then bust open. I don't particularly mean you actually, but hundreds of people on here who really are hypocritical and who you don't pull up for it - quite the opposite.
?
This isn't going anywhere. It's not me, it's you.
Pronouns: He/Him
-2
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 19:33 - Nov 3 with 4512 views
Naughty me for enquiring about Palestine... touchy! Maybe I was searching for an equivalence in views on stateless peoples and the current situation in the ME. It was a curious question, and I am a curious creature, in both senses of the word.
Why it's pertinent to the discussion: most of the evidence supplied conflates legitimate condemnation of the acts of the Israeli state with antisemitism. The definition of antisemitism you and others have universally adopted contains seven references to Israel. So moving the discussion to Israel/Palestine in the wider context of antisemitism's definition is now in itself antisemitic? Brill. Quite useful in shutting down dissent. "Antisemite!"
As for your example of the Irish, I'm glad you brought that up as I'm half Irish and my family have been on various sides of various conflicts for decades. The truth is that Ireland and Israel are both far more nuanced debates that require wider discussion. Asking someone Irish on their views tactfully would be, and usually is, quite illuminating. Or do we shut down that conversation now that one of the provinces is part of UK PLC?
And on hijacking threads, come now GB... Even our fairly recent discussion about BoJo's clear Islamophobia turned into a Corbyn-fest for you. Why not stick to the topic? Or did you want to broaden the conversation?
This is why people don't like your style of debate: you pick and choose when to be pious, when jokes are acceptable and when changing the topic is appropriate; you like to set the rules so pompously but rarely follow them yourself.
I am ever so grateful that you've judged me to be non-antisemitic. I shall sleep better tonight and for ever knowing that I'm not an out and out jew-hater, I merely stray into antisemitic language every now and again, at parties or on the odd weekend with the lads.
Trying to bludgeon people with tweets rather than addressing the point of genuine criticism of Israel being labelled as antisemitic when it is not is a problem with your argument. You fail to see the nuance, purposefully so in my opinion.
That you are so condescending in your appraisal of my position is telling. I am a fervent anti-racist who has no difficulty in telling what is antisemitic and what is not. Calling Israel an apartheid state is not antisemitic, and if Israel has a problem with that label then they should recognise Palestine, to begin a true two-state solution.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2018 19:34]
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 19:33 - Nov 3 by footers
Naughty me for enquiring about Palestine... touchy! Maybe I was searching for an equivalence in views on stateless peoples and the current situation in the ME. It was a curious question, and I am a curious creature, in both senses of the word.
Why it's pertinent to the discussion: most of the evidence supplied conflates legitimate condemnation of the acts of the Israeli state with antisemitism. The definition of antisemitism you and others have universally adopted contains seven references to Israel. So moving the discussion to Israel/Palestine in the wider context of antisemitism's definition is now in itself antisemitic? Brill. Quite useful in shutting down dissent. "Antisemite!"
As for your example of the Irish, I'm glad you brought that up as I'm half Irish and my family have been on various sides of various conflicts for decades. The truth is that Ireland and Israel are both far more nuanced debates that require wider discussion. Asking someone Irish on their views tactfully would be, and usually is, quite illuminating. Or do we shut down that conversation now that one of the provinces is part of UK PLC?
And on hijacking threads, come now GB... Even our fairly recent discussion about BoJo's clear Islamophobia turned into a Corbyn-fest for you. Why not stick to the topic? Or did you want to broaden the conversation?
This is why people don't like your style of debate: you pick and choose when to be pious, when jokes are acceptable and when changing the topic is appropriate; you like to set the rules so pompously but rarely follow them yourself.
I am ever so grateful that you've judged me to be non-antisemitic. I shall sleep better tonight and for ever knowing that I'm not an out and out jew-hater, I merely stray into antisemitic language every now and again, at parties or on the odd weekend with the lads.
Trying to bludgeon people with tweets rather than addressing the point of genuine criticism of Israel being labelled as antisemitic when it is not is a problem with your argument. You fail to see the nuance, purposefully so in my opinion.
That you are so condescending in your appraisal of my position is telling. I am a fervent anti-racist who has no difficulty in telling what is antisemitic and what is not. Calling Israel an apartheid state is not antisemitic, and if Israel has a problem with that label then they should recognise Palestine, to begin a true two-state solution.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2018 19:34]
Great post. You captured the "debate" and the tactics perfectly.
Pronouns: He/Him
1
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 23:19 - Nov 3 with 4364 views
A criminal investigation has begun into antisemitism in the Labour party on 19:33 - Nov 3 by footers
Naughty me for enquiring about Palestine... touchy! Maybe I was searching for an equivalence in views on stateless peoples and the current situation in the ME. It was a curious question, and I am a curious creature, in both senses of the word.
Why it's pertinent to the discussion: most of the evidence supplied conflates legitimate condemnation of the acts of the Israeli state with antisemitism. The definition of antisemitism you and others have universally adopted contains seven references to Israel. So moving the discussion to Israel/Palestine in the wider context of antisemitism's definition is now in itself antisemitic? Brill. Quite useful in shutting down dissent. "Antisemite!"
As for your example of the Irish, I'm glad you brought that up as I'm half Irish and my family have been on various sides of various conflicts for decades. The truth is that Ireland and Israel are both far more nuanced debates that require wider discussion. Asking someone Irish on their views tactfully would be, and usually is, quite illuminating. Or do we shut down that conversation now that one of the provinces is part of UK PLC?
And on hijacking threads, come now GB... Even our fairly recent discussion about BoJo's clear Islamophobia turned into a Corbyn-fest for you. Why not stick to the topic? Or did you want to broaden the conversation?
This is why people don't like your style of debate: you pick and choose when to be pious, when jokes are acceptable and when changing the topic is appropriate; you like to set the rules so pompously but rarely follow them yourself.
I am ever so grateful that you've judged me to be non-antisemitic. I shall sleep better tonight and for ever knowing that I'm not an out and out jew-hater, I merely stray into antisemitic language every now and again, at parties or on the odd weekend with the lads.
Trying to bludgeon people with tweets rather than addressing the point of genuine criticism of Israel being labelled as antisemitic when it is not is a problem with your argument. You fail to see the nuance, purposefully so in my opinion.
That you are so condescending in your appraisal of my position is telling. I am a fervent anti-racist who has no difficulty in telling what is antisemitic and what is not. Calling Israel an apartheid state is not antisemitic, and if Israel has a problem with that label then they should recognise Palestine, to begin a true two-state solution.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2018 19:34]
So, instead of taking up my offer to reflect on why your comments could be described as inappropriate, you choose to double down on them. Hey ho. You have nailed your colours to the mast.
Once again, my views on Israel/Palestine are irrelevant to the discussion taking place. You may as well have asked me on my views of the Chinese government’s persecution of the Uyghurs. Or the attempted genocide of the Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar.
But you decide, in a debate about British Jews being on the receiving end of antisemitic abuse to play the “yeah but what about Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians”? card. And you don't see what is wrong in that?
You declined to answer this question before, but I shall ask you once again: If the debate was about Islamophobia within the EDL or Ukip, would your response be “yeah but what about IS and 9/11”?
I can only imagine the response from the majority of board members if you did so.
Also, why should the British Jewish community lobby the government to recognise Palestine as a state in order to alleviate themselves of racial abuse? Would you say that the British Muslim community should speak out far more often against Islamic terrorism so as to alleviate themselves of Islamophobia?
Of course you wouldn't. Because the British Muslim community are no more responsible for the atrocities carried out by Islamic terrorist groups than the British Jewish community is responsible for the actions of the state of Israel.
Again, I'd be grateful if you would respond to that point.
You talk about me bludgeoning people with tweets rather than addressing the point of genuine criticism of Israel. Firstly, I was asked by another poster to provide proof that antisemitism is a major problem within the membership of the Labour party. Secondly, It’s people like you, DK and CIL who seem rather keen to to move the debate away from genuine antisemitism aimed at British Jews and onto the subject of people playing the antisemitism card to stifle legitimate criticism of Israel.
Legitimate criticism of Israel is perfectly acceptable. I’ve never suggested otherwise. No one on here who is highlighting the vile abuse that British Jews are receiving from Labour party members has said anything to the contrary. And with Bibi in power legitimate criticism is very important. The man is a monster and is a roadblock to any peaceful solution. You can say that Israel is acting in an appalling manner with regards to the blockade of Gaza. That the illegal Israeli settlements are a disgrace and should be bulldozed and the occupants forcibly removed. There I’ve just said it. It’s not anti-Semitic.
Does the neo con right wing Bibi government play the anti-Semitism card to shut down debate on the Israel/Palestine issue? of course. Bad governments play the race card to shut down legitimate criticism. Mugabe used to constantly play the race card to shut down criticism of his appalling human rights record.
Does that mean that racism isn’t real? Of course not. Just as Bibi using the antisemitism card to shut down criticism of his government and his actions doesn’t mean that the antisemitism British Jews have been receiving from Labour party members isn’t real.
But again, instead of addressing the vile abuse that I have highlighted in this thread you prefer to deflect it by saying that Israel are playing the antisemitism card to deflect legitimate criticism. Well you have obviously seen the tweets and social media posts from Labour members that I have linked. Show me just one that is legitimate criticism of Israel and not cut and dried antisemitism. Just one.
In fact if anyone is trying to stifle the debate about the anti-Semitism problem in the Labour party it its you
Your last line sums up that deflection tactic perfectly: “Calling Israel an apartheid state is not antisemitic, and if Israel has a problem with that label then they should recognise Palestine, to begin a true two-state solution”
You’re right mate. But then again, no one on this thread has even suggested that.
Now back to the genuine anti-Semitism that I have linked. Any comment you’d like to make without falling back on “yeah but what about Israel”?
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