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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon 12:17 - Mar 11 with 2418 viewsBullardsMagicMullet

Very interesting news, making the future habitable human missions to Moon more of a cheaper option. It could mean a real possibility in the near future to "mine" the moon's surface for Helium-3 to help ease the Earths reliance of oil.

"These results aid in understanding the lunar water cycle and will ultimately help us learn about accessibility of water that can be used by humans in future missions to the Moon,” said Amanda Hendrix, a senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute and lead author of the paper. “Lunar water can potentially be used by humans to make fuel or to use for radiation shielding or thermal management; if these materials do not need to be launched from Earth, that makes these future missions more affordable.”

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-sheds-light-on-lunar-water-movemen

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:26 - Mar 11 with 1820 viewsCOYBitfc

Is this the dawn of when the humans fduck with another planet and start to ruin it.. The moon then explodes or starts to act in a peculiar way resulting on what it does to sustain earth's seasons/currents etc becoming broken. Earth then dies.

Written in the language of someone who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough that there some places human interference should not happen... Putting a flag on it is one thing, drilling in it is another.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:39 - Mar 11 with 1807 viewsSamuelowen88

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:26 - Mar 11 by COYBitfc

Is this the dawn of when the humans fduck with another planet and start to ruin it.. The moon then explodes or starts to act in a peculiar way resulting on what it does to sustain earth's seasons/currents etc becoming broken. Earth then dies.

Written in the language of someone who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough that there some places human interference should not happen... Putting a flag on it is one thing, drilling in it is another.


The moon isn't a planet.

Also, planets or Natural Satellites (the moon) don't just explode because you drill into them, that's just for TV. Like cars exploding when their fuel tanks are shot.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:02 - Mar 11 with 1774 viewsStokieBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:26 - Mar 11 by COYBitfc

Is this the dawn of when the humans fduck with another planet and start to ruin it.. The moon then explodes or starts to act in a peculiar way resulting on what it does to sustain earth's seasons/currents etc becoming broken. Earth then dies.

Written in the language of someone who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough that there some places human interference should not happen... Putting a flag on it is one thing, drilling in it is another.


“who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough”

How can you know you understand enough if you admit you don’t really understand the subject?

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:09 - Mar 11 with 1759 viewsCoachRob

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:02 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue

“who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough”

How can you know you understand enough if you admit you don’t really understand the subject?

SB


Probably works for the Department for Exiting the European Union(DExEU).
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:33 - Mar 11 with 1740 viewsHarry_Palmer

In other 'Moon news' scientists have now decided that the Moon is not actually in outer space at all, but in fact orbits WITHIN the Earth's atmosphere which is far bigger than previously thought.

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/the-moon-is-inside-earths-atmosphere-cla

This seems to have slipped somewhat under the radar, is this not a fairly epic discovery that contradicts all previously accepted theory? Or maybe not...any science experts about?
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:07 - Mar 11 with 1636 viewsBullardsMagicMullet

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:26 - Mar 11 by COYBitfc

Is this the dawn of when the humans fduck with another planet and start to ruin it.. The moon then explodes or starts to act in a peculiar way resulting on what it does to sustain earth's seasons/currents etc becoming broken. Earth then dies.

Written in the language of someone who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough that there some places human interference should not happen... Putting a flag on it is one thing, drilling in it is another.


I am afraid the Moon is not a planet, it is a natural satellite. We are currently drilling into Mars and it hasn’t blown up yet! It is actually moving away from the Earth at approximately 4cm a year and anyway the Earth will be destroyed in a few billion years when the Sun turns into a red giant and frazzles the local Solar System.

Helium-3 is also plentiful on Jupiter and would be a safer option to mine but the Moon would be a more prudent option. We are on the cusp of commercial space travel and confirmation that we are not alone, time to buckle in and enjoy the ride!

If the human species are going to survive, the Moon would be a much more viable option as a starting point for sending future space missions.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:08 - Mar 11 with 1631 viewsfooters

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:39 - Mar 11 by Samuelowen88

The moon isn't a planet.

Also, planets or Natural Satellites (the moon) don't just explode because you drill into them, that's just for TV. Like cars exploding when their fuel tanks are shot.


The documentary Armageddon tells a very different story.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:23 - Mar 11 with 1600 viewsBloomBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:39 - Mar 11 by Samuelowen88

The moon isn't a planet.

Also, planets or Natural Satellites (the moon) don't just explode because you drill into them, that's just for TV. Like cars exploding when their fuel tanks are shot.


How many moons have been drilled?
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:51 - Mar 11 with 1558 viewsSamuelowen88

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:23 - Mar 11 by BloomBlue

How many moons have been drilled?


The moon has been drilled, and hasn’t blown up.

What chemical / physical property of the moon is it that is going to make it suddenly explode ?

Rock doesn’t combust because it’s been drilled

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:59 - Mar 11 with 1541 viewsNthQldITFC

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:51 - Mar 11 by Samuelowen88

The moon has been drilled, and hasn’t blown up.

What chemical / physical property of the moon is it that is going to make it suddenly explode ?

Rock doesn’t combust because it’s been drilled


I wouldn't be so sure. Some cheese vapours have the potential for rapid oxidation. Especially the French. Not sure what 'rock' has to do with it?

The only thing I know is that I might be wrong about everything else.
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 20:08 - Mar 11 with 1527 viewsfooters

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:59 - Mar 11 by NthQldITFC

I wouldn't be so sure. Some cheese vapours have the potential for rapid oxidation. Especially the French. Not sure what 'rock' has to do with it?


Swiss cheese instantly disproves your theory.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 20:29 - Mar 11 with 1500 viewsMeadowlark

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:33 - Mar 11 by Harry_Palmer

In other 'Moon news' scientists have now decided that the Moon is not actually in outer space at all, but in fact orbits WITHIN the Earth's atmosphere which is far bigger than previously thought.

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/the-moon-is-inside-earths-atmosphere-cla

This seems to have slipped somewhat under the radar, is this not a fairly epic discovery that contradicts all previously accepted theory? Or maybe not...any science experts about?


Science expert here
The great thing about science is that it is true until proved otherwise.
As Carl Sagan said:
"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. (1987) -- Carl Sagan"
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 20:38 - Mar 11 with 1484 viewsfooters

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 20:29 - Mar 11 by Meadowlark

Science expert here
The great thing about science is that it is true until proved otherwise.
As Carl Sagan said:
"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. (1987) -- Carl Sagan"


Same is true in philosophy. Althusser constantly updated and revised his theories, admitting he was wrong or may have been mistaken; Heidegger on the the other hand spent the rest of his post-WW2 career attempting to defend or rationalise his support of Nazism.

It's cool, man - you were wrong, let's move on :)

Edit: But I will add that many scientists also fall into this pseudo-religious trap. If you weren't a devotee of string theory, I believe, many people would not listen to you or your arguments. May need a scientician to back that up, but it is my understanding.
[Post edited 11 Mar 2019 20:40]

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 20:52 - Mar 11 with 1452 viewsBloomBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:51 - Mar 11 by Samuelowen88

The moon has been drilled, and hasn’t blown up.

What chemical / physical property of the moon is it that is going to make it suddenly explode ?

Rock doesn’t combust because it’s been drilled


Same as the earth, but people get very upset over fracking
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 21:33 - Mar 11 with 1417 viewsStokieBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 19:07 - Mar 11 by BullardsMagicMullet

I am afraid the Moon is not a planet, it is a natural satellite. We are currently drilling into Mars and it hasn’t blown up yet! It is actually moving away from the Earth at approximately 4cm a year and anyway the Earth will be destroyed in a few billion years when the Sun turns into a red giant and frazzles the local Solar System.

Helium-3 is also plentiful on Jupiter and would be a safer option to mine but the Moon would be a more prudent option. We are on the cusp of commercial space travel and confirmation that we are not alone, time to buckle in and enjoy the ride!

If the human species are going to survive, the Moon would be a much more viable option as a starting point for sending future space missions.


Excellent thread, nice to see something which isn't he-said-she-said and without any fake news (although there is still time).

The moon is a natural satellite but it's formation was very unusual, it's too big relative to the Earth for a likely gravitational capture so the current theory is that a Mars sized proto-planet crashed into the early Earth and the debris which was flung into space coolessed into the moon - that is why the ratio of planet to moon is so different to the rest of the solar system.

Helium-3 is a potential power source but for clarification we aren't anywhere near making a fusion reactor which could use it as fuel. It's certainly the way we want to be heading but it'll be second generation reactors. The moon is certainly the best place for us to get it though, it's on the surface as it's produced by the solar wind so saying we would have to drill for it isn't really true in the sense of drilling on Earth. No explosions to be had here!

You are entirely right that the moon is the perfect staging post for expolration of the solar system. All the ingredients are there to make fuel and because of the very low gravity the escapre velocity is tiny and thus the ships can be much bigger whilst using much less fuel. The US is currenyly commited to building an orbiting space station at the moon which will have a smaller ship which can go down to the moons surface and return regularly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Orbital_Platform-Gateway

As you say, it's interesting times in this field.

SB
[Post edited 11 Mar 2019 21:33]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:01 - Mar 11 with 1390 viewsXYZ

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 21:33 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue

Excellent thread, nice to see something which isn't he-said-she-said and without any fake news (although there is still time).

The moon is a natural satellite but it's formation was very unusual, it's too big relative to the Earth for a likely gravitational capture so the current theory is that a Mars sized proto-planet crashed into the early Earth and the debris which was flung into space coolessed into the moon - that is why the ratio of planet to moon is so different to the rest of the solar system.

Helium-3 is a potential power source but for clarification we aren't anywhere near making a fusion reactor which could use it as fuel. It's certainly the way we want to be heading but it'll be second generation reactors. The moon is certainly the best place for us to get it though, it's on the surface as it's produced by the solar wind so saying we would have to drill for it isn't really true in the sense of drilling on Earth. No explosions to be had here!

You are entirely right that the moon is the perfect staging post for expolration of the solar system. All the ingredients are there to make fuel and because of the very low gravity the escapre velocity is tiny and thus the ships can be much bigger whilst using much less fuel. The US is currenyly commited to building an orbiting space station at the moon which will have a smaller ship which can go down to the moons surface and return regularly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Orbital_Platform-Gateway

As you say, it's interesting times in this field.

SB
[Post edited 11 Mar 2019 21:33]


Interesting stuff, thanks.

I've always assumed that cosmic radiation will be the limiting factor in all this, but I'm only an interested amateur.

Are you aware of what work's being done on this?
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:17 - Mar 11 with 1384 viewsStokieBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:01 - Mar 11 by XYZ

Interesting stuff, thanks.

I've always assumed that cosmic radiation will be the limiting factor in all this, but I'm only an interested amateur.

Are you aware of what work's being done on this?


The radiation exposure on the moon would basically be the same as on the ISS so I expect the same duration rules would apply.

I believe there are proposals to use craters and more interesting lava tubes which are subsurface tunnels which would provide a lot of protection from the radiation. It would actually be a great place for a base as the superstructure is existing rock and then you build up to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_lava_tube

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:18 - Mar 11 with 1378 viewsClapham_Junction

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 15:09 - Mar 11 by CoachRob

Probably works for the Department for Exiting the European Union(DExEU).


A former colleague of mine left a very well-paying job to take an even more high-paying job in DExEU (apparently largely stuffed with consultants trousering six figure salaries as few civil servants are stupid enough to want to be seconded there, even with significant pay rises).

He quit after about two months.
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:38 - Mar 11 with 1348 viewshoppy

Has there been any confirmation from them as to whether Jonathan Douglas was seen moving at St James' Park that time?

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:58 - Mar 11 with 1320 viewstcblue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:17 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue

The radiation exposure on the moon would basically be the same as on the ISS so I expect the same duration rules would apply.

I believe there are proposals to use craters and more interesting lava tubes which are subsurface tunnels which would provide a lot of protection from the radiation. It would actually be a great place for a base as the superstructure is existing rock and then you build up to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_lava_tube

SB


The ISS is within the earth's magnetic field so is actually shielded way better than the moon, which isn't.

As an aside, what the LRO which discovered the moving water is doing, is measuring the radiation on the moon over a period of time exactly to understand how we could shield longer term visitors and how long term they should be.

Solar flares are terrifying. Our warning instruments sometimes give us much less than an hour's notice to astronauts. I'd love to go into space one day but the risks are incredible outside of just getting there and back.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:10 - Mar 11 with 1306 viewsXYZ

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:58 - Mar 11 by tcblue

The ISS is within the earth's magnetic field so is actually shielded way better than the moon, which isn't.

As an aside, what the LRO which discovered the moving water is doing, is measuring the radiation on the moon over a period of time exactly to understand how we could shield longer term visitors and how long term they should be.

Solar flares are terrifying. Our warning instruments sometimes give us much less than an hour's notice to astronauts. I'd love to go into space one day but the risks are incredible outside of just getting there and back.


What do the astronauts do after the warning? Some sort of "safe" room?
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:12 - Mar 11 with 1299 viewsRoyKeanesDog

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 14:26 - Mar 11 by COYBitfc

Is this the dawn of when the humans fduck with another planet and start to ruin it.. The moon then explodes or starts to act in a peculiar way resulting on what it does to sustain earth's seasons/currents etc becoming broken. Earth then dies.

Written in the language of someone who doesn't really understand what's what when it comes to space stuff but understands enough that there some places human interference should not happen... Putting a flag on it is one thing, drilling in it is another.


What a post.

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:18 - Mar 11 with 1291 viewsXYZ

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:12 - Mar 11 by RoyKeanesDog

What a post.


I was going to post something during last night's haze about all these space machines causing the moon to wobble by looping round the back for extra-whoosh and affecting its gravity tie with earth causing 100m waves across the Atlantic.

Fortunately I didn't, woke up and found someone else had done my work.
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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:24 - Mar 11 with 1279 viewsStokieBlue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 22:58 - Mar 11 by tcblue

The ISS is within the earth's magnetic field so is actually shielded way better than the moon, which isn't.

As an aside, what the LRO which discovered the moving water is doing, is measuring the radiation on the moon over a period of time exactly to understand how we could shield longer term visitors and how long term they should be.

Solar flares are terrifying. Our warning instruments sometimes give us much less than an hour's notice to astronauts. I'd love to go into space one day but the risks are incredible outside of just getting there and back.


Good point on the magnetic field. Seems the exposure on the moon is x2 to x5 times more than the IS which is in low Earth orbit but it all depends on solar conditions really.

It will be interesting to see what proposals are made with regards to shielding. Magnetic fields and water work but are hard to engineer in such conditions, a natural blocker like rock might be the easiest way. We will hopefully know soonish.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:28 - Mar 11 with 1273 viewstcblue

NASA Confirm Water Moving On The Moon on 23:10 - Mar 11 by XYZ

What do the astronauts do after the warning? Some sort of "safe" room?


Get inside!

There's yet to have been a measurable single solar flare which on its own, with exposure on the moon would likely result in death, but there's been 400 rem flares measured which would mean you'd probably need a bone marrow transplant reasonably early if caught outside unshielded in it. These are reduced by a factor of around ten in shielded spacecraft.

A CAT scan is around 1 rem, for context.

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