| Nothing to see here 07:32 - Nov 26 with 35922 views | hampstead_blue |
If, and if, JC was doing the right thing by the Jewish people in the Labour party, why would this venerable chap say this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068
|  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |  |
| Nothing to see here on 10:47 - Nov 26 with 1559 views | BloomBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 09:24 - Nov 26 by Butterbing |
Is anybody justifying it? I don’t think they are. People are just sceptical. Also, pointing out that the conservatives seem to have similar issues. Racism is being weaponised fir political purposes. There doesn’t seem to be any tangible evidence that the issue is as large as is being made out to be by the Conservatives and the right-leaning media. We are just being told it is a problem. Racism and Anti-Semitism are deplorable. You cannot currently just make it a Labour problem. There are still undercurrents in all society. It needs stamping out rather than being used as a political weapon to demonise a political leader at the time of an election. |
I think when some people's response is purely 'it's just as bad in the Conservatives" with no condemnation that is justifying it.
Bit like racism in football when a Country comments the racism in Country # is worse than ours, it's not eliminating the problem simply justifying it because it's not "just us' |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 10:48 - Nov 26 with 1550 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 10:01 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Fao: Jews
You've no right to complain about antisemitism in the UK unless you've previously spoke in favour of a two state solution in Israel. |
A harsh and definitely unfair editorialisation. You're picking this up quickly, ullaa.
Anyone who is pretending that this issue isn't massively politicised is deluded or being utterly disingenuous. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 10:49 - Nov 26 with 1546 views | chicoazul |
| Nothing to see here on 10:48 - Nov 26 by Darth_Koont |
A harsh and definitely unfair editorialisation. You're picking this up quickly, ullaa.
Anyone who is pretending that this issue isn't massively politicised is deluded or being utterly disingenuous. |
"everyone I disagree with is either stupid or bad" |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 10:52 - Nov 26 with 1528 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 10:39 - Nov 26 by ZedRodgers |
Because, in Rabbi Mirvis' own words:
“I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister. As he accepts upon himself the mantle of responsibility to lead our nation, may he be blessed with the wisdom to successfully navigate the political uncertainties we face and bring healing and prosperity to our great country.” |
Sounds like a religious leader offering a polite and formulaic welcome to a new PM - do we know if other PMs have been welcomed in such a way? |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 10:54 - Nov 26 with 1523 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 09:13 - Nov 26 by BloomBlue |
A sad indictment of the UK in 2019 that Jewish people in the UK feel threatened and even sadder some people will try and justify it by claiming it's all down to the right wing press. |
Would you or your up-arrowers like to point me to where ANYONE has claimed "it's all down to the right wing press"? |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 10:54 - Nov 26 with 1522 views | giant_stow |
| Nothing to see here on 10:48 - Nov 26 by Darth_Koont |
A harsh and definitely unfair editorialisation. You're picking this up quickly, ullaa.
Anyone who is pretending that this issue isn't massively politicised is deluded or being utterly disingenuous. |
Read Banksy's post back if you will and explain what he really meant for the hard of thinking? | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:01 - Nov 26 with 1511 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 10:45 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah but the Tories aren't being investigated (yet) so it's all alright.
BTW, you can bet your bottom dollar that if it were the Tories being investigated by the EHRC, the same people reminding us about Labour being investigated would be saying "let's just wait for their findings."
There's so much hypocrisy in this election. |
And investigated for alleged procedural issues relating to the handling of antisemitism complaints, let's be utterly clear here.
Hardly supporting the charge that "Corbyn is an antisemite" and "Labour is riddled with antisemitism" or that there is an "existential threat to British Jews" that the accusers are really trying to get across. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:01 - Nov 26 with 1508 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 09:20 - Nov 26 by hampstead_blue |
I agree that people of his position ought to be neutral during elections.
My huge concern is that he also knows that but still feels to strongly that he's put his head on the block by speaking out.
That tells me there is a serious, serious concern still among the Jewish community.
That's the concern.
Oh, the Tories and Islamophobia, I'm against that as well. I'm an atheist but think we should have the right to believe what we want. |
In what way has he "put his head on the block"? I think most people would agree with him that it's unacceptable. He's hardly out out a controversial view. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Nothing to see here on 11:01 - Nov 26 with 1508 views | itfcjoe |
| Nothing to see here on 10:49 - Nov 26 by chicoazul |
"everyone I disagree with is either stupid or bad" |
It does seem crazy how much more press this gets than anything with regards to Islamophobia and other racism from the right - our current PM has been caught bang to rights on articles whereas most of Corbyn is hearsay and needs the dots to be joined up. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:02 - Nov 26 with 1504 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 10:49 - Nov 26 by chicoazul |
"everyone I disagree with is either stupid or bad" |
If you have to make stuff up, you've lost the argument. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:05 - Nov 26 with 1497 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 09:47 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
but there are jews who haven't personally experienced anti-semitism in the labour party.
(copyright twtd hard left clique 2015 -2019). |
Yeah, let's only listen to the negative reports. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:09 - Nov 26 with 1489 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:05 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah, let's only listen to the negative reports. |
reports of abuse and discrimination are always negative and should always be listened to. jeez. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:11 - Nov 26 with 1497 views | Dyland |
| Nothing to see here on 09:45 - Nov 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Robert Peston, no friend of the Tories, nails it.
“The Chief Rabbi’s intervention in the general election is without precedent. I find it heartbreaking, as a Jew, that the rabbi who by convention is seen as the figurehead of the Jewish community, feels compelled to write this about Labour and its leader.
I am not making any kind of political statement here. What I am saying is our democracy has traditionally been a beacon of tolerance and understanding. The chief rabbi says our democracy has been poisoned. I hope his intervention is a catharsis that heals but I fear the worst.
There is an enormous amount of predictable “whataboutery” in response the Chief Rabbi - “what about Islamaphobia in Tory party?” etc. Which is as if to say we don’t need to worry about alleged racism in one of the main parties if there is alleged racism in the other one.
Really? If that is your argument, we really are in the handcart to hell.”
Yiu are amongst a number if posters who are going to feel very dirty when the EHRC publishes its conclusions. |
Isn't part of the problem here that the Tory party is not called out to anything like the same degree in the mainstream media/the "elite". That is in itself a massive problem with this debate. It's enervating and beyond tedious. One should be able to make this point without people coming back with frankly offensive straw man accusations. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:12 - Nov 26 with 1480 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 10:52 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Sounds like a religious leader offering a polite and formulaic welcome to a new PM - do we know if other PMs have been welcomed in such a way? |
yeah but he's a clearly tory aint he. why else would he be making such a fuss about a bit of anti-semitism? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:13 - Nov 26 with 1477 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 10:14 - Nov 26 by GlasgowBlue |
The HOC select committee,which is now nearly three years old, states that"elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic".
The report also says Corbyn showed a "lack of consistent leadership on this issue, and his reluctance to separate antisemitism from other forms of racism, has created what some have referred to as a ‘safe space’ for those with vile attitudes towards Jewish people. This situation has been further exacerbated by the Party’s demonstrable incompetence at dealing with members accused of antisemitism".
It also says "Jewish Labour MPs have been subject to appalling levels of abuse, including antisemitic death threats from individuals purporting to be supporters of Mr Corbyn."
And goes on to say "The Labour Party, with its proud history of fighting racism and promoting equal rights, is seen by some as an unwelcoming place for Jewish members and activists."
The Chakrabarti inquiry was a complete whitewash. Can you imagine any other “independent person” giving a political party a c,Dan bill of health and within weeks being made a life peer and appointed shadow attorney general? That was an absolute disgrace. |
The HOC select committee report also stated "There is no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour party than any other political party." | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:14 - Nov 26 with 1476 views | ZedRodgers |
I find the insinuation that life will become worse for Jewish people under a Labour government deeply offensive.
Whenever this 'threat of Corbyn' thing is raised, nobody can ever evidence a single thing which suggests life for Jewish people would become worse, or the extreme notion that Corbyn poses an existential threat.
Antisemitism is of course very real, in Labour and more so in the far right. A Labour government is not going to increase online abuse and general insensitivity from anonymous freaks beyond the level it's at now. If anything, this ugly behaviour may even see a decline with the Charter of Digital Rights proposed by Labour and the legal implications for companies who don't act on online abuse under their plans.
We have seen deportations, racist abuse and even deaths as a direct result of the current government's policies. This isn't whataboutery, it's dealing with facts and not speculation. Can anybody proclaiming the 'threat of Corbyn' to Jewish people without a morsel of evidence really be taken seriously?
Disagree? Feel free to explain to me which of Labour's proposals would threaten Jewish life. |  |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:14 - Nov 26 with 1473 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:01 - Nov 26 by Darth_Koont |
And investigated for alleged procedural issues relating to the handling of antisemitism complaints, let's be utterly clear here.
Hardly supporting the charge that "Corbyn is an antisemite" and "Labour is riddled with antisemitism" or that there is an "existential threat to British Jews" that the accusers are really trying to get across. |
"procedural issues relating to the handling of antisemitism complaints" ie what those lawyerly chaps and chapesses call 'institutional anti-semitism'. let's be utterly clear here. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:15 - Nov 26 with 1468 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 10:39 - Nov 26 by ZedRodgers |
Because, in Rabbi Mirvis' own words:
“I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister. As he accepts upon himself the mantle of responsibility to lead our nation, may he be blessed with the wisdom to successfully navigate the political uncertainties we face and bring healing and prosperity to our great country.” |
Oh wow.
Funny how the OP (and his follow-up attack dogs) failed to mention this! | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:17 - Nov 26 with 1460 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 10:52 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Sounds like a religious leader offering a polite and formulaic welcome to a new PM - do we know if other PMs have been welcomed in such a way? |
What?! He calls him a longstanding friend FFS! | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:19 - Nov 26 with 1449 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 10:54 - Nov 26 by giant_stow |
Read Banksy's post back if you will and explain what he really meant for the hard of thinking? |
I think he's saying this is massively politicised.
Based on everything I've seen, read and heard these past 3 or 4 years I agree completely. Left/right, pro-Palestinian/pro-Israel, anti-racist/islamophobic, Corbynista/Blairite ... these lines cross through the whole discussion.
And that's legitimate criticism both sides need to address. That's why evidence is so important. The major, sweeping accusations aren't backed up by the evidence, just by pointing at other people making accusations.
No amount of "But, but ... look at what this critic is saying!!" is going to change that. | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:19 - Nov 26 with 1445 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:17 - Nov 26 by BrixtonBlue |
What?! He calls him a longstanding friend FFS! |
To be fair though being a long standing friend of someone doesn't mean you have to criticise someone else who is against them. Correlation doesn't always imply causation.
Doesn't mean he's right to do it though as I said in my original post.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:20 - Nov 26 with 1441 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:09 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
reports of abuse and discrimination are always negative and should always be listened to. jeez. |
And yet reports by say John Bercow, who has known Corbyn for decades and says he's never seen or heard anything antisemitic connected to him, are to be dismissed? | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:24 - Nov 26 with 1428 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing to see here on 11:14 - Nov 26 by lowhouseblue |
"procedural issues relating to the handling of antisemitism complaints" ie what those lawyerly chaps and chapesses call 'institutional anti-semitism'. let's be utterly clear here. |
Yes, that would be what institutional anti-semitism means.
It doesn't mean "riddled with anti-semitism" because there isn't the evidence for that. Perhaps you could be clear there? | |
| |
| Nothing to see here on 11:25 - Nov 26 with 1423 views | smithy91 |
| Nothing to see here on 08:12 - Nov 26 by itfcjoe |
I will be voting with my conscience, and it will be against this God awful Tory Government |
The current government has been far from great and there are serious issues with crime, policing social care etc but I really fail to see how Corbyn's radical Labour changes are the answer at this moment, especially at a time where we could be financially less stable with brexit. Not everything about this current government appears broken or 'awful'.
Unless most of the motive is anti brexit related... |  | | |
| Nothing to see here on 11:26 - Nov 26 with 1416 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing to see here on 11:19 - Nov 26 by StokieBlue |
To be fair though being a long standing friend of someone doesn't mean you have to criticise someone else who is against them. Correlation doesn't always imply causation.
Doesn't mean he's right to do it though as I said in my original post.
SB |
If I had a longstanding friend facing a General Election I'd do or say all I could to help him. Correlation doesn't always imply causation, but it certainly throws new light on his comments and the timing of them. The antisemitism issue has been going on for years. Why is he only saying something now? | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
