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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true 17:16 - Dec 13 with 2465 viewsLord_Lucan

If you take Blair out of the equation (who was arguably a Tory) Labour haven't won a general election in 50 years.

If Scotland ever leave the UK there is not even a long term opposition.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:25 - Dec 13 with 1561 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Yep, thats something I have mentioned a lot.

Basically leftist Labour Govt hasnt won an election in that time.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 with 1547 viewsmonytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything."
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:29 - Dec 13 with 1535 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 by monytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]


No worries man.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:31 - Dec 13 with 1523 viewsBloomBlue

What I find ironic about this GE is a lot of people talked about capitalism is finished but what this election proved is left wing socialism is dead.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:33 - Dec 13 with 1509 viewsEwan_Oozami

You don't win an election unless you win Murdoch et al first...

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:35 - Dec 13 with 1485 viewsmonytowbray

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:31 - Dec 13 by BloomBlue

What I find ironic about this GE is a lot of people talked about capitalism is finished but what this election proved is left wing socialism is dead.


It won’t be people deciding capitalism has failed that kills capitalism, it will be capitalism literally failing. It will happen my generations’ grandkids lifetime. Do you think those billionaires will be keen to help out when the planet ends up with limited food and water? Or do you think they’ll build their own society for the 1%? Those dystopian future novels and films aren’t entirely based on fiction.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:37]

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything."
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:38 - Dec 13 with 1469 viewsDarth_Koont

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:31 - Dec 13 by BloomBlue

What I find ironic about this GE is a lot of people talked about capitalism is finished but what this election proved is left wing socialism is dead.


No, genuine social democracy is dead as a viable alternative in a UK-wide election. It's just not acceptable to too many in the Establishment and those with control of the media.Who would rather support the insane path of Johnson because there are upsides for them even if it's demonatrably worse for the UK and its citizens.

Support for it is alive and well in Scotland and the type of society it aspires to be. Which is why I can see Scotland having to go its own way now.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:43 - Dec 13 with 1441 viewsLankHenners

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:31 - Dec 13 by BloomBlue

What I find ironic about this GE is a lot of people talked about capitalism is finished but what this election proved is left wing socialism is dead.


What this GE proved is that people don’t know what ‘proved’ means.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:46 - Dec 13 with 1419 viewsfloridablue

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:38 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

No, genuine social democracy is dead as a viable alternative in a UK-wide election. It's just not acceptable to too many in the Establishment and those with control of the media.Who would rather support the insane path of Johnson because there are upsides for them even if it's demonatrably worse for the UK and its citizens.

Support for it is alive and well in Scotland and the type of society it aspires to be. Which is why I can see Scotland having to go its own way now.


Please....hopefully..!
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:51]
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:48 - Dec 13 with 1400 viewsfabian_illness

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 by monytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]


I can see what you're saying here.

Radical change will never win an election, the labour manifesto as presented by someone hoping to emulate those from the other side of the iron curtain was literally pie in the sky.

New labour had the right idea.
Labour reforming in a more moderate position with some younger blood with real drive and passion to edge things to the left in a slow orderly fashion would do the job, surely that has to be the compromise knowing what sort of backing an the old fashioned labour party received.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:52 - Dec 13 with 1375 viewsDarth_Koont

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:48 - Dec 13 by fabian_illness

I can see what you're saying here.

Radical change will never win an election, the labour manifesto as presented by someone hoping to emulate those from the other side of the iron curtain was literally pie in the sky.

New labour had the right idea.
Labour reforming in a more moderate position with some younger blood with real drive and passion to edge things to the left in a slow orderly fashion would do the job, surely that has to be the compromise knowing what sort of backing an the old fashioned labour party received.


Boris and the Tories are promoting radical change. So I think that depends on the accepted narrative.

There's nothing really radical about pulling back from the cliff edge of Brexit and trying to repair the damage done to the fabric of society over a longer period. But you wouldn't know that from a lot of the coverage.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:53 - Dec 13 with 1372 viewsPrideOfTheEast

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 by monytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]


Whilst I don't agree with everything in your second para, I respect you a lot for the first.

You don't seem happy at all in this society so why not seek change.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:54 - Dec 13 with 1364 viewsmonytowbray

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:48 - Dec 13 by fabian_illness

I can see what you're saying here.

Radical change will never win an election, the labour manifesto as presented by someone hoping to emulate those from the other side of the iron curtain was literally pie in the sky.

New labour had the right idea.
Labour reforming in a more moderate position with some younger blood with real drive and passion to edge things to the left in a slow orderly fashion would do the job, surely that has to be the compromise knowing what sort of backing an the old fashioned labour party received.


The fact people seem to think the manifesto was anything like Communism was part of the issue too IMO. Amazing what you can do repeating one line over and over until it’s true.

Public railways, free wifi and taxing the super rich is hardly radical really. The fact I said it is shows even I’ve fell victim to these claims and I’m all for them.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:55 - Dec 13 with 1362 viewsSteve_M

Yes, only one Labour leader has won an election in my lifetime. It's not quite 50 years though.

I'm not entirely sure Blair can be closed as a Tory: the minimum wage, Human Rights Act, devolution, surestart wouldn't have happened under a Tory government. Blair was how progressive change gets enacted in this country.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:55 - Dec 13 with 1355 viewsBloomBlue

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:38 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

No, genuine social democracy is dead as a viable alternative in a UK-wide election. It's just not acceptable to too many in the Establishment and those with control of the media.Who would rather support the insane path of Johnson because there are upsides for them even if it's demonatrably worse for the UK and its citizens.

Support for it is alive and well in Scotland and the type of society it aspires to be. Which is why I can see Scotland having to go its own way now.


But Scotland didnt vote for left wing socialism, the SNPs policies are at most central socialism
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:58 - Dec 13 with 1342 viewsBent_double

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 by monytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]


I'm gonna give it a couple of years, see if they can actually do anything good for society in general - my son will be 18 then, so will seriously think about emigrating somewhere - anywhere - that's better.

I would miss going to Ipswich games, but I don't get to many nowadays, and with ifollow, you still get to listen or watch all games anyway.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:02 - Dec 13 with 1326 viewsDarth_Koont

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:55 - Dec 13 by Steve_M

Yes, only one Labour leader has won an election in my lifetime. It's not quite 50 years though.

I'm not entirely sure Blair can be closed as a Tory: the minimum wage, Human Rights Act, devolution, surestart wouldn't have happened under a Tory government. Blair was how progressive change gets enacted in this country.


Cosmetically and not stopping the widening social, economic and political divisions that progressive politics is meant to tackle?

There's a reason Blair and Brown started the process of losing Scotland to the SNP. They didn't do enough over their tenure.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:02 - Dec 13 with 1324 viewsOnionboy

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:28 - Dec 13 by monytowbray

This is why folk like myself had been fed up for a while, would have never voted for Labour before and wanted radical change. Those centralists screaming LABOUR IS RUINED NOW seem to be reading a different history to me.

This country reaps what it sows. Genuinely considering Canada. The only thing keeping me here was ITFC and that’s not exactly a worthwhile reason right now. I’d sooner be paying tax in a country where my money goes towards something better. Until the UK powers can be remotely bothered to take the situation of the vulnerable seriously, fix the evil UC system, properly tax the super rich and actually fund healthcare I want no part of this backwards entitled island of greed and looking out for number one.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 17:29]


I know a very good shipping company that will deal with all your possessions m8
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:04 - Dec 13 with 1313 viewsDarth_Koont

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:55 - Dec 13 by BloomBlue

But Scotland didnt vote for left wing socialism, the SNPs policies are at most central socialism


You seem to be throwing around terms. What are you talking about?

And in any modern Western democracy there's a mix of socialism and capitalism. It's not one or the other unless you're living in the 1920s.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:07 - Dec 13 with 1303 viewsmanchego

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:31 - Dec 13 by BloomBlue

What I find ironic about this GE is a lot of people talked about capitalism is finished but what this election proved is left wing socialism is dead.


I lived in North Islington for a long long time.
Corbyn has only ever been a protester. Most of the time he was protesting about the front bench of the Labour Party.
Politics is all he knows. He should be really good at it.
He isn't.
He thinks he can speak to people who really need a strong state management of health, education, police, etc
He is a fantasist. Completely delusional.

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:08 - Dec 13 with 1294 viewsGeoffSentence

It's not an amazing fact it is a ridiculous non-fact. you can't dismiss 13 years of Labour government in that time on some contentious idea that they weren't really labour enough.

The actual fact is that Labour have won 5 general elections in the last 50 years.

In the 38 games in which ALB played in goal for us, we averaged 1.53 points per game which, had they been over the course of a single season, would have seen us challenging for the play offs. This at a time when we were otherwise struggling against relegation. Oh, and didn't Mick Mills have terrific posture.
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:09 - Dec 13 with 1282 viewsSwansea_Blue

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 17:55 - Dec 13 by Steve_M

Yes, only one Labour leader has won an election in my lifetime. It's not quite 50 years though.

I'm not entirely sure Blair can be closed as a Tory: the minimum wage, Human Rights Act, devolution, surestart wouldn't have happened under a Tory government. Blair was how progressive change gets enacted in this country.


Agreed. And the main advantage Blair has over other Labour leaders, rather than being a Red Tory’, was the support of Murdoch (already mentioned).

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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:17 - Dec 13 with 1220 viewsmanchego

I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:08 - Dec 13 by GeoffSentence

It's not an amazing fact it is a ridiculous non-fact. you can't dismiss 13 years of Labour government in that time on some contentious idea that they weren't really labour enough.

The actual fact is that Labour have won 5 general elections in the last 50 years.


Do you think it's a London thing ?
"All us cultured hipsters think cool thoughts about society but don't have a frikn clue about folk everywhere else"

Don't forget house price rises made a massive number of LNDNers very rich.

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Not quite on 18:17 - Dec 13 with 1221 viewsGuthrum

October 1974, Harold Wilson's Labour won a majority - just. 45 years ago.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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I heard an amazing fact yesterday - and thinking about it, it must be true on 18:20 - Dec 13 with 1202 viewsHerbivore

England is a pretty right wing, non-progressive country. Has been all my lifetime anyway.

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