| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... 12:57 - Dec 15 with 4002 views | itfcjoe |
....hold the Government to account. And not one led by Corbyn and his followers.
Now is the time to join the party so that you can have your say on the direction it goes in.
If you leave it any longer then it may be too late. |  |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:01 - Dec 15 with 2384 views | WD19 |
I agree with you, but watch a post-election spike in membership be held up as ‘evidence’ that the party is going in the right direction’.
Pissing.In.The.Wind. |  | | |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:05 - Dec 15 with 2365 views | itfcjoe |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:01 - Dec 15 by WD19 |
I agree with you, but watch a post-election spike in membership be held up as ‘evidence’ that the party is going in the right direction’.
Pissing.In.The.Wind. |
One member, one vote - they might think it is evidence of success but the leadership election may make them sit up | |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:16 - Dec 15 with 2335 views | Bluesquid |
Corbyn - a leaver, should have listened to his followers and not the Labour liberal remainers like Starmer who are so out of touch with the working class.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2019 13:17]
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:40 - Dec 15 with 2231 views | sparks |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:05 - Dec 15 by itfcjoe |
One member, one vote - they might think it is evidence of success but the leadership election may make them sit up |
The thing is run by momentum and the unions now. The moderates are culled. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:44 - Dec 15 with 2222 views | StokieBlue |
Nothing is going to change. The period of reflection is time to let the bitterness heal then carry on with the project with momentum. Have you read JCs letters today?
Hanging around for 6 months isn't going to help Labour at all.
SB [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 15:10]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:46 - Dec 15 with 2219 views | blueislander |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:16 - Dec 15 by Bluesquid |
Corbyn - a leaver, should have listened to his followers and not the Labour liberal remainers like Starmer who are so out of touch with the working class.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2019 13:17]
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If you think the moderate wing of the Labour Party was the cause of them losing the election, you are slightly deluded imo. | | | |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:49 - Dec 15 with 2209 views | sparks |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:44 - Dec 15 by StokieBlue |
Nothing is going to change. The period of reflection is time to let the bitterness heal then carry on with the project with momentum. Have you read JCs letters today?
Hanging around for 6 months isn't going to help Labour at all.
SB [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 15:10]
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He is hanging around to ensure transition to someone he and the hard left ideologues approve of. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:50]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:56 - Dec 15 with 2197 views | Bluesquid |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:46 - Dec 15 by blueislander |
If you think the moderate wing of the Labour Party was the cause of them losing the election, you are slightly deluded imo. |
Well it wasn't just them, Momentum also wanted to stop Brexit.
"Labour must back second Brexit vote or lose next election, Tom Watson warns"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/tom-watson-labour-must-back-sec
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:09 - Dec 15 with 2167 views | itfcjoe |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:40 - Dec 15 by sparks |
The thing is run by momentum and the unions now. The moderates are culled. |
It shouldn't be that difficult to get 100k members to join and outnumber them, genuinely. | |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:09 - Dec 15 with 2167 views | StokieBlue |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 14:49 - Dec 15 by sparks |
He is hanging around to ensure transition to someone he and the hard left ideologues approve of. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:50]
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Isn't that what I've said?
I've edited it now in case it was clear.
SB [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 15:10]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:37 - Dec 15 with 2111 views | blueislander |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:09 - Dec 15 by itfcjoe |
It shouldn't be that difficult to get 100k members to join and outnumber them, genuinely. |
Not sure about that. Don’t the unions count all their members as having voted? | | | |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:42 - Dec 15 with 2088 views | BlueBadger |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 13:16 - Dec 15 by Bluesquid |
Corbyn - a leaver, should have listened to his followers and not the Labour liberal remainers like Starmer who are so out of touch with the working class.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2019 13:17]
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:58 - Dec 15 with 2058 views | tractordownsouth |
I've joined and will be voting for Yvette Cooper or Jess Phillips |  |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:08 - Dec 15 with 2036 views | StokieBlue |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 15:58 - Dec 15 by tractordownsouth |
I've joined and will be voting for Yvette Cooper or Jess Phillips |
What do you think the endgame of that will be though?
You're joining to vote for essentially a Blairite and there are hundreds of thousands of members who see that as essentially voting for a Tory - they have said as much countless times over the last 3 years and caused a lot of people to go vote Tory. Plenty even on here have said that.
Given that situation how can the party ever reconcile? Is it likely that it will fracture and split much like in 1981?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:19 - Dec 15 with 2014 views | Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. Personally I think the UK desperately needs progressive politics and genuine social democracy as an alternative.
Re-aligning as a centrist and status quo party doesn't suggest any long-term value in a future where we will be facing huge national and international change through climate change, AI and automation.
Not to mention dealing with the evidence from happier, healthier and more productive countries in Europe. |  |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:31 - Dec 15 with 1995 views | tractordownsouth |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:08 - Dec 15 by StokieBlue |
What do you think the endgame of that will be though?
You're joining to vote for essentially a Blairite and there are hundreds of thousands of members who see that as essentially voting for a Tory - they have said as much countless times over the last 3 years and caused a lot of people to go vote Tory. Plenty even on here have said that.
Given that situation how can the party ever reconcile? Is it likely that it will fracture and split much like in 1981?
SB |
Jess Phillips isn't a Blairite. I think a lot of our issues have come from having a London- centric image and a leader that has missed a lot of open goals. I think Phillips and Cooper have shown good attention to detail so far and both fulfil the criteria of being from working class areas, although I lean towards Phillips as she doesn't have the New Labour associations, having only been an MP since 2015.
I think having a moderate leader will allow us to push forward social change but in a better manner - a decent amount of Corbyn's policies were individually popular but there was too much, too quickly; we aren't historically a nation that wants excessive change.
Whatever happens, we need a strong character. I think we got away with it in 2017 as the Tories had an even less charismatic leader - I can't stand Johnson but he generates headlines and we need someone to really nail him down on all the promises he will fail to deliver with regards to both Brexit and domestic policy. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 16:32]
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:37 - Dec 15 with 1971 views | lowhouseblue |
the other thing all those defeats have in common is that corbyn and co were in charge as we lost every one of them. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 16:38]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:46 - Dec 15 with 1937 views | bournemouthblue |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:31 - Dec 15 by tractordownsouth |
Jess Phillips isn't a Blairite. I think a lot of our issues have come from having a London- centric image and a leader that has missed a lot of open goals. I think Phillips and Cooper have shown good attention to detail so far and both fulfil the criteria of being from working class areas, although I lean towards Phillips as she doesn't have the New Labour associations, having only been an MP since 2015.
I think having a moderate leader will allow us to push forward social change but in a better manner - a decent amount of Corbyn's policies were individually popular but there was too much, too quickly; we aren't historically a nation that wants excessive change.
Whatever happens, we need a strong character. I think we got away with it in 2017 as the Tories had an even less charismatic leader - I can't stand Johnson but he generates headlines and we need someone to really nail him down on all the promises he will fail to deliver with regards to both Brexit and domestic policy. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 16:32]
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I'm left leaning but accept Jess Phillips actually has some talent and isn't likely to shy away from an argument
She is fairly media friendly and comes across as authentically working class which may resinate with the North more
She seems a more competent operator than many of the names being thrown about currently |  |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:53 - Dec 15 with 1918 views | tractordownsouth |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:46 - Dec 15 by bournemouthblue |
I'm left leaning but accept Jess Phillips actually has some talent and isn't likely to shy away from an argument
She is fairly media friendly and comes across as authentically working class which may resinate with the North more
She seems a more competent operator than many of the names being thrown about currently |
Yeah, I'm more of a centre left guy but I'm happy to compromise a bit in order to choose the leader who is best equipped to remove Johnson. I've never identified as a Corbynista but I backed him during the election as I believed him to be the best of the two choices. | |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:57 - Dec 15 with 1900 views | lowhouseblue |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:31 - Dec 15 by tractordownsouth |
Jess Phillips isn't a Blairite. I think a lot of our issues have come from having a London- centric image and a leader that has missed a lot of open goals. I think Phillips and Cooper have shown good attention to detail so far and both fulfil the criteria of being from working class areas, although I lean towards Phillips as she doesn't have the New Labour associations, having only been an MP since 2015.
I think having a moderate leader will allow us to push forward social change but in a better manner - a decent amount of Corbyn's policies were individually popular but there was too much, too quickly; we aren't historically a nation that wants excessive change.
Whatever happens, we need a strong character. I think we got away with it in 2017 as the Tories had an even less charismatic leader - I can't stand Johnson but he generates headlines and we need someone to really nail him down on all the promises he will fail to deliver with regards to both Brexit and domestic policy. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 16:32]
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i agree that individual policies were potentially popular. but by throwing everything including the kitchen sink in it destroys credibility and trust. it wasn't helped by the fact that as the campaign went on the later promises were clearly attempts at bribes. i really believe that they thought the waspi women thing was incredibly clever and would shift a whole lump pf pensioners over to them. no one believed it, no one took it seriously. credibility and trust take a long time to create - it involves discipline, fiscal rules and the ability to articulate clear priorities and stick to them. they had no clear priorities this time - even the nhs got lost amongst the endless list of give aways and spending promises. they were quite simply all over the place. quite apart from the fact the corbyn and co are gits, it was the worst run campaign imaginable. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:00 - Dec 15 with 1882 views | bournemouthblue |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:53 - Dec 15 by tractordownsouth |
Yeah, I'm more of a centre left guy but I'm happy to compromise a bit in order to choose the leader who is best equipped to remove Johnson. I've never identified as a Corbynista but I backed him during the election as I believed him to be the best of the two choices. |
There aren't many stand out candidates I can think of off the top of my head
The Corbyn crew seem to like Rebecca Long Bailey but she seems to get skewered quite easily in interviews
Angela Rayner seems feistier and more passionate but is likely to rub some up the wrong way
Dawn Butler seems more credible on this side of the party
Clive Lewis would be interesting, he has an army background also which may do him some favours
Andy Burnham and Sadique Khan may re-emerge
Keir Starmer is being talked about but it's arguably his Brexit approach which has cost the party
We will see what happens | |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:07 - Dec 15 with 1854 views | GaryCooper |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 16:57 - Dec 15 by lowhouseblue |
i agree that individual policies were potentially popular. but by throwing everything including the kitchen sink in it destroys credibility and trust. it wasn't helped by the fact that as the campaign went on the later promises were clearly attempts at bribes. i really believe that they thought the waspi women thing was incredibly clever and would shift a whole lump pf pensioners over to them. no one believed it, no one took it seriously. credibility and trust take a long time to create - it involves discipline, fiscal rules and the ability to articulate clear priorities and stick to them. they had no clear priorities this time - even the nhs got lost amongst the endless list of give aways and spending promises. they were quite simply all over the place. quite apart from the fact the corbyn and co are gits, it was the worst run campaign imaginable. |
It was policy Diarrhea, sometimes less is genuinely more. |  | | |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:13 - Dec 15 with 1841 views | jas0999 |
The Unions will ultimately decide the next Labour leader.
But I agree this is a crunch time for the party. Need to select a new leader who can engage with the voters - the people - someone likeable, but also fit to govern. Almost the complete opposite to Corbyn in my view.
This won’t be a quick turnaround for Labour - but likely have five years to get the party back to where it should be. Representing everyone, not just a few. | | | |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:23 - Dec 15 with 1802 views | LankHenners |
| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:00 - Dec 15 by bournemouthblue |
There aren't many stand out candidates I can think of off the top of my head
The Corbyn crew seem to like Rebecca Long Bailey but she seems to get skewered quite easily in interviews
Angela Rayner seems feistier and more passionate but is likely to rub some up the wrong way
Dawn Butler seems more credible on this side of the party
Clive Lewis would be interesting, he has an army background also which may do him some favours
Andy Burnham and Sadique Khan may re-emerge
Keir Starmer is being talked about but it's arguably his Brexit approach which has cost the party
We will see what happens |
Clive Lewis would be a good left-field pick - progressive, has a certain charm and swagger about him that makes him easy to like, as you mention ex-army which could help connect with some lost voters, from a working class background in the Midlands so could help reconnect with the traditional heartland, ex-media so knows what they're all about and can play that game well, would certainly be able to keep and engage young voters without hemorrhaging traditional support like Corbyn.
Possibly needs more time in the public eye in a top shadow position to become more of a 'name' that the wider public can get used to but could be waiting a while if someone else gets in and stays there for at least 10 years (very possible if most people accept the task to oust the Tories is likely to be two elections worth of work). |  |
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| For those who think we need a strong Labour party to.... on 17:31 - Dec 15 with 1774 views | SonOfSpock |
The members were the ones who chose Corbyn. They got what they deserved this election.
A combination of Marxists, anti semites, and MPs assuming they knew better than their leave voting constituencies. Completely out of touch with their supposed grass roots. |  | | |
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