| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. 10:14 - Jan 18 with 7191 views | noggin |
Should be nowhere near the Labour Party leadership contest. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 12:38 - Jan 18 with 2437 views | Clapham_Junction |
I would question the whole purpose of these 'friends of' groups. Private Eye regularly exposes the dodgy nature of the ones associated with undemocratic countries such as Azerbaijan or some of the central Asian republics, including how MPs are given lavish trips to them, and then later make positive comments on said countries. |  | | |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:00 - Jan 18 with 2397 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 12:38 - Jan 18 by Clapham_Junction |
I would question the whole purpose of these 'friends of' groups. Private Eye regularly exposes the dodgy nature of the ones associated with undemocratic countries such as Azerbaijan or some of the central Asian republics, including how MPs are given lavish trips to them, and then later make positive comments on said countries. |
The worst lot are "Friends of the Earth"
They go off gallivanting all over the show! |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:45 - Jan 18 with 2351 views | tractordownsouth |
Blair, Brown and Miliband were all in the Friends of Israel group... that's a silly argument. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:53 - Jan 18 with 2292 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 10:59 - Jan 18 by noggin |
I don't object to the people in general, just the government and supporters of their actions against the Palestinians. |
Lisa Nandy is the chair of Labour Friends of Palestine. Does this mean she supports Islamic terrorists who murder innocent Jewish people both in Israel and around the world? Does this position exclude her from being leader of the Labour Party?
If your answer to both questions is no, which it bloody well should be, then you should ask yourself why you feel differently about people who belong to Labour Friends of Israel.
Support the right for a country to exist is different to supporting the actions of the current people in government. Whether that is Hamas in Gaza or Likud in Israel. [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 14:33]
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:57 - Jan 18 with 2281 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:45 - Jan 18 by tractordownsouth |
Blair, Brown and Miliband were all in the Friends of Israel group... that's a silly argument. |
As was Tony Benn. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 14:27 - Jan 18 with 2310 views | jeera |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 12:27 - Jan 18 by Darth_Koont |
Apologies then.
The "couple of beers" after work yesterday got a little out of hand and everything feels much more emotional this morning. |
You two would get along fine.
Both characters who both like weird foodstuff. [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 14:31]
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 14:42 - Jan 18 with 2251 views | hampstead_blue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:53 - Jan 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Lisa Nandy is the chair of Labour Friends of Palestine. Does this mean she supports Islamic terrorists who murder innocent Jewish people both in Israel and around the world? Does this position exclude her from being leader of the Labour Party?
If your answer to both questions is no, which it bloody well should be, then you should ask yourself why you feel differently about people who belong to Labour Friends of Israel.
Support the right for a country to exist is different to supporting the actions of the current people in government. Whether that is Hamas in Gaza or Likud in Israel. [Post edited 18 Jan 2020 14:33]
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Why you be friends of both?
Seems a bit like Blur and Oasis.
Like them both. Let them both have the right to exist, sort out the land and get on with life. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 15:04 - Jan 18 with 2266 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 10:37 - Jan 18 by noggin |
I like her too, but being a friend of Israel gives the impression she condones the treatment of the Palestinian people. |
What a load of nonsense.
We should all be friends of Israel, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East and a nation which protects Jewish people from the many enemies who would destroy them. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 06:57 - Jan 20 with 2163 views | noggin |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 15:04 - Jan 18 by The_Last_Baron |
What a load of nonsense.
We should all be friends of Israel, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East and a nation which protects Jewish people from the many enemies who would destroy them. |
A nation which constantly defies international law by indiscriminately murdering Palestinian people and stealing their land, for their own citizens. But you know about that. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 08:13 - Jan 20 with 2113 views | StokieBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 06:57 - Jan 20 by noggin |
A nation which constantly defies international law by indiscriminately murdering Palestinian people and stealing their land, for their own citizens. But you know about that. |
You'll be opposing trade with China on the same grounds I assume under any Labour government?
Even Labour members in this thread have pointed out how this narrow thinking and demonising of your own candidates isn't helping.
SB |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:18 - Jan 20 with 2080 views | noggin |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 08:13 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
You'll be opposing trade with China on the same grounds I assume under any Labour government?
Even Labour members in this thread have pointed out how this narrow thinking and demonising of your own candidates isn't helping.
SB |
Personally, I wouldn't want to trade with any country with a questionable human rights policy. Are any candidates in a group called Friends Of China? They are not my candidates though, I'm highly unlikely to ever live in the UK again. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:22 - Jan 20 with 2066 views | Bent_double |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 06:57 - Jan 20 by noggin |
A nation which constantly defies international law by indiscriminately murdering Palestinian people and stealing their land, for their own citizens. But you know about that. |
It's a real shame that we don't get to hear more about the plight of the Palestinians, whether that's deliberate, or whether people just don't seem to care, I don't know, but it would be nice to think that there are plenty of MPs who are 'Friends of Palestine' as well as 'Friends of Israel', just to keep the balance. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:24 - Jan 20 with 2058 views | BackToRussia |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 08:13 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
You'll be opposing trade with China on the same grounds I assume under any Labour government?
Even Labour members in this thread have pointed out how this narrow thinking and demonising of your own candidates isn't helping.
SB |
I find your assumption that someone criticising Israel is secretly in support of China, or that you have to condemn both in the same breath, very strange.
You have levelled this same accusation at me despite me never trying to defend China once.
That reason people in the west would be more preoccupied with Israel than China is not exactly hard to fathom, geographic proximity being the obvious one. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:30 - Jan 20 with 2044 views | StokieBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:24 - Jan 20 by BackToRussia |
I find your assumption that someone criticising Israel is secretly in support of China, or that you have to condemn both in the same breath, very strange.
You have levelled this same accusation at me despite me never trying to defend China once.
That reason people in the west would be more preoccupied with Israel than China is not exactly hard to fathom, geographic proximity being the obvious one. |
I didn't make such an assumption though, I asked that he imply consistency across views. Israel gets a lot of focus from the membership on here whilst the threads posted on the Uighur situation get far less.
The last paragraph is a bit strange, neither are particularly close to us and are hugely different in scale with regards to the interaction on the world stage.
Even staunch Labour supporters have highlighted his position is odd here and part of the problem. As has been highlighted, many leading Labour MPs of the past have been part of the organisation. The continual demonising of people within Labour by other parts of the party is a major problem as highlighted by Starmer.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:32]
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:33 - Jan 20 with 2036 views | BackToRussia |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:30 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
I didn't make such an assumption though, I asked that he imply consistency across views. Israel gets a lot of focus from the membership on here whilst the threads posted on the Uighur situation get far less.
The last paragraph is a bit strange, neither are particularly close to us and are hugely different in scale with regards to the interaction on the world stage.
Even staunch Labour supporters have highlighted his position is odd here and part of the problem. As has been highlighted, many leading Labour MPs of the past have been part of the organisation. The continual demonising of people within Labour by other parts of the party is a major problem as highlighted by Starmer.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:32]
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Israel Palestine is the central geopolitical struggle for the west. It ties to every war, including ones British soldiers have fought in the middle East, for the last 30 years or more. We occupied Israel for Christ's sake! It is no surprise people are politically interested in it, and condemning Israel is as easy for me as condemning China. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:39 - Jan 20 with 2020 views | StokieBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:33 - Jan 20 by BackToRussia |
Israel Palestine is the central geopolitical struggle for the west. It ties to every war, including ones British soldiers have fought in the middle East, for the last 30 years or more. We occupied Israel for Christ's sake! It is no surprise people are politically interested in it, and condemning Israel is as easy for me as condemning China. |
I fully accept you handle both fairly.
Something being historically significant doesn't mean it should hold the majority of debate going forward. It's important to highlight the wrongs of the Israeli government and the Palestinian cause but things change as does the level of importance. You can see that in the decline of UK importance since WW2.
The ME is going to be less relevant on the world stage as oil dependency decreases, hopefully they will then be able to solve their differences without melding from the outside.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:40]
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:41 - Jan 20 with 2012 views | noggin |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:30 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
I didn't make such an assumption though, I asked that he imply consistency across views. Israel gets a lot of focus from the membership on here whilst the threads posted on the Uighur situation get far less.
The last paragraph is a bit strange, neither are particularly close to us and are hugely different in scale with regards to the interaction on the world stage.
Even staunch Labour supporters have highlighted his position is odd here and part of the problem. As has been highlighted, many leading Labour MPs of the past have been part of the organisation. The continual demonising of people within Labour by other parts of the party is a major problem as highlighted by Starmer.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:32]
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I wouldn't have voted for any of those earlier candidates either. I wasn't interested in politics back then though. Surely we are allowed to question why so many MPs are in such a group, considering Israel's treatment of the Palestinians? Is Friends Of China, a thing and if it is, how many Labour MPs are members? | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:44 - Jan 20 with 1999 views | BackToRussia |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:39 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
I fully accept you handle both fairly.
Something being historically significant doesn't mean it should hold the majority of debate going forward. It's important to highlight the wrongs of the Israeli government and the Palestinian cause but things change as does the level of importance. You can see that in the decline of UK importance since WW2.
The ME is going to be less relevant on the world stage as oil dependency decreases, hopefully they will then be able to solve their differences without melding from the outside.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:40]
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I'm sorry but Israel Palestine is not going away any time soon. The US still sees Israel as someone to prop up militarily and will veto a two state solution. You can't use the future to dismiss the present.
Labour might be one eyed in treating Palestine as completely focal re foreign affairs, but they're not far off. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:52 - Jan 20 with 1983 views | Darth_Koont |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:39 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
I fully accept you handle both fairly.
Something being historically significant doesn't mean it should hold the majority of debate going forward. It's important to highlight the wrongs of the Israeli government and the Palestinian cause but things change as does the level of importance. You can see that in the decline of UK importance since WW2.
The ME is going to be less relevant on the world stage as oil dependency decreases, hopefully they will then be able to solve their differences without melding from the outside.
SB [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 9:40]
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To be fair, we've had two decades of failed peace negotiations over Israel/Palestine and over the past 6 or 7 years in particular an extremist Israeli government and settler movement has used that vacuum to take the piss out of the international community. And of course the damage to the people in Gaza, the West Bank, Israeli civilians too and any real prospect of a two-state solution isn't something that can be ignored.
Agree with you fully on other issues involving China. It's obvious that we put trade and other priorities ahead of the different minorities and regions of China that have been oppressed. It's equally apparent that we do the same re: Israel/Palestine in the face of political lobbying.
It's all part of the same problem of vested interests that our politicians, media and electorate all need to address. Particularly with regard to foreign policy as it's out of sight and mind for the majority and thus ripe for abuse. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:58 - Jan 20 with 1965 views | StokieBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:44 - Jan 20 by BackToRussia |
I'm sorry but Israel Palestine is not going away any time soon. The US still sees Israel as someone to prop up militarily and will veto a two state solution. You can't use the future to dismiss the present.
Labour might be one eyed in treating Palestine as completely focal re foreign affairs, but they're not far off. |
You also can't use the past to dismiss the future. I agree that the US will continue to be involved in Israel but that's not what I said. I said the ME and other countries exist there who have been hard hit by meddling and that is likely to decrease over time. Hopefully a regional solution can then be found but I agree that could be doubtful.
Can you clarify what you mean by "foreign affairs"?
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 10:02 - Jan 20 with 1953 views | StokieBlue |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 09:52 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
To be fair, we've had two decades of failed peace negotiations over Israel/Palestine and over the past 6 or 7 years in particular an extremist Israeli government and settler movement has used that vacuum to take the piss out of the international community. And of course the damage to the people in Gaza, the West Bank, Israeli civilians too and any real prospect of a two-state solution isn't something that can be ignored.
Agree with you fully on other issues involving China. It's obvious that we put trade and other priorities ahead of the different minorities and regions of China that have been oppressed. It's equally apparent that we do the same re: Israel/Palestine in the face of political lobbying.
It's all part of the same problem of vested interests that our politicians, media and electorate all need to address. Particularly with regard to foreign policy as it's out of sight and mind for the majority and thus ripe for abuse. |
That's a fair summary.
My point is that focusing on a single pet issue isn't going to help Labour and pointing fingers internally is going to cause more division and more Tory governments. There are many things to discuss as you've highlighted - lets hope they are discussed.
Only this morning I heard on Radio 4 that China will account for the entire global increase in coal usage next year. They need to be challenged on it but won't be due to trade.
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 11:00 - Jan 20 with 1922 views | Darth_Koont |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 10:02 - Jan 20 by StokieBlue |
That's a fair summary.
My point is that focusing on a single pet issue isn't going to help Labour and pointing fingers internally is going to cause more division and more Tory governments. There are many things to discuss as you've highlighted - lets hope they are discussed.
Only this morning I heard on Radio 4 that China will account for the entire global increase in coal usage next year. They need to be challenged on it but won't be due to trade.
SB |
Sure but the struggle to establish human and state rights and recognition in Palestine has been ongoing for 50-odd years.
It's effectively become a class action (in the legal sense not the political sense) to get Western governments (US and UK at the fore )to do the right thing, not the politically expedient thing. Keeping this top of the agenda is vital.
For many in Labour and the UK it's very much a discussion of the UK's place (and future role) in the world. And massively at odds with Blair's quasi-crusade mentality that took us into Iraq for spurious reasons and an even more spurious result.
It's definitely not a question of Palestine and nothing else. But neither the symbolic nor the real importance should be underestimated. After all, actively supporting and defending the rights of the Palestinian people *shouldn't* even be debatable in the UK - the fact that it somehow is raises wider issues of political and moral accountability. | |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:37 - Jan 20 with 1865 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 11:16 - Jan 18 by baxterbasics |
And?
Labour need to realise at some point that the vast majority of the British electorate couldn't give two squits about Israel either way. The lefts obsession with it only makes them look even more looney and out of touch, and always vulnerable to the antisemitism attack line. |
100%. Why obsess on this one subject, with all the other Human Rights abuses around the world..odd |  | | |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:57 - Jan 20 with 1844 views | monytowbray |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 11:16 - Jan 18 by baxterbasics |
And?
Labour need to realise at some point that the vast majority of the British electorate couldn't give two squits about Israel either way. The lefts obsession with it only makes them look even more looney and out of touch, and always vulnerable to the antisemitism attack line. |
They cared about it when the press went in heavy with anti-Semitism accusations in the election buildup.
Good to see you’ve all finally come clean and admitted you don’t really care about racism though. Still not seen any Tory voters demanding the Islamophobia Enquiry is launched on the Tories. Odd. |  |
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| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 14:09 - Jan 20 with 1817 views | itfcjoe |
| Jess Phillips, friend of Israel. on 13:57 - Jan 20 by monytowbray |
They cared about it when the press went in heavy with anti-Semitism accusations in the election buildup.
Good to see you’ve all finally come clean and admitted you don’t really care about racism though. Still not seen any Tory voters demanding the Islamophobia Enquiry is launched on the Tories. Odd. |
There's a difference between not caring or being knowledgable enough about Israel and seeing it as an irrelevance in the main to accepting racism. |  |
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