| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge 11:40 - Apr 1 with 3363 views | hampstead_blue |
A few here have jumped into Gove as a 'bare faced liar'.
Ask yourself this.
Do you think he may have been given duff info, not def info?
Just asking.
Some will jump on me as a Tory boy - yawn. The question is the quality of the information.
Not who gave it....the quality.
As things are changing faster than a (insert here) it could be that a junior bod made an assumption and dropped a minister in the pot.
Gove may have been handed proper duff info.......
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 14:25 - Apr 1 with 966 views | BlueNomad |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 12:19 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
Sorry but did you read the post?
A senior minister cannot be over every aspect of the detail. As such rely on juniors to get it to them.
Do you know think that a junior made a mistake and dropped the minister in it?
Our CEO relies on us to get our comms and peice correct. He trusts us and yes we make a mistake from time to time.
I'm not sure you how more simple it could be....
You are calling 'liar, liar' when actually he's a bright man and it could easily be, and I'd put a £1 on it, that he was dropped in it. |
Haven’t we had enough years not to trust anything this miserable crew say? Anyway, Gove doesn’t need experts to help him, so he clearly does it all himself. Once he opens his mouth he owns it. That is what he is paid for. |  | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 15:12 - Apr 1 with 937 views | Churchman |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 14:00 - Apr 1 by longtimefan |
"It’s possible he was given duff info, but the reality is that the government has hidden behind the ‘experts’ and has been chasing behind from the start"
You mean you'd rather have MPs dictating the policy rather than the scientists and experts. Wow! Personally I wouldn't trust a single politicians' views above those of subject experts. |
MPs do dictate policy. It’s what the government is there for and are accountable for. The experts guide, the Civil Servants enact. My problem is that with the propping up a dude or two at a press conference alongside a minister, it gives me the impression they are hiding behind those so called experts. It’s just how I see it.
The reality is that their actions, in spite of plenty of information from around the world, have been at best late. Lockdown, procurement of testing kits, protection kit for staff - all late or non existent. They have either been misadvised or have ignored advice, or just in a plain old mess. |  | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 15:30 - Apr 1 with 924 views | hampstead_blue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 13:06 - Apr 1 by eireblue |
You have just demonstrated why we went to War in Iraq.
You don’t take definitive action or make public pronouncements on a single source of data.
That, by the way, is your proposed excuse. He had duff info from a junior bod.
Your proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be un-acceptable, if it were not for your team. |
You have just demonstrated why we went to War in Iraq.
Completely different. Bush wanted it, Blair wanted to be the centre of attention.
You don’t take definitive action or make public pronouncements on a single source of data.
That, by the way, is your proposed excuse. He had duff info from a junior bod.
It could be one, two, three. I don't know. Only the civil servants in the mix know. Ministers do have a responsibility to check, but if you've ever been in a truly chaotic scenario when even last minutes news is old then you'll probably not understand how mistakes happen. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 16:35 - Apr 1 with 910 views | BlueNomad |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 15:30 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
You have just demonstrated why we went to War in Iraq.
Completely different. Bush wanted it, Blair wanted to be the centre of attention.
You don’t take definitive action or make public pronouncements on a single source of data.
That, by the way, is your proposed excuse. He had duff info from a junior bod.
It could be one, two, three. I don't know. Only the civil servants in the mix know. Ministers do have a responsibility to check, but if you've ever been in a truly chaotic scenario when even last minutes news is old then you'll probably not understand how mistakes happen. |
So which bit did you give me downvote? Citing his dislike of experts or the fact that he owns what he says? You really do come across as an apologist. | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 16:42 - Apr 1 with 905 views | bluelagos |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 15:12 - Apr 1 by Churchman |
MPs do dictate policy. It’s what the government is there for and are accountable for. The experts guide, the Civil Servants enact. My problem is that with the propping up a dude or two at a press conference alongside a minister, it gives me the impression they are hiding behind those so called experts. It’s just how I see it.
The reality is that their actions, in spite of plenty of information from around the world, have been at best late. Lockdown, procurement of testing kits, protection kit for staff - all late or non existent. They have either been misadvised or have ignored advice, or just in a plain old mess. |
Late is sense I am getting.
Late to the correct policy, late to lockdown.
Late sorting tests, late sorting ventilators, late sorting PPE.
Whether this is down to govt ineptitude, civil service ineptitude or simply all a symptom of the initial delay in following the current policy (and not herd immunity) none of us can possibly know.
It will come out in the wash when this is all over, hopefully without too many lost lives. |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 18:53 - Apr 1 with 867 views | eireblue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 15:30 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
You have just demonstrated why we went to War in Iraq.
Completely different. Bush wanted it, Blair wanted to be the centre of attention.
You don’t take definitive action or make public pronouncements on a single source of data.
That, by the way, is your proposed excuse. He had duff info from a junior bod.
It could be one, two, three. I don't know. Only the civil servants in the mix know. Ministers do have a responsibility to check, but if you've ever been in a truly chaotic scenario when even last minutes news is old then you'll probably not understand how mistakes happen. |
Go back. Read the report from the Chilcot Inquiry.
“I don’t know” is the most accurate thing you have said.
But you seem to be able derive information and have a valid opinion on things based on that.
It is a characteristic of a belief system God/Gove works in mysterious ways. But it must be good. |  | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 with 854 views | hampstead_blue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 16:35 - Apr 1 by BlueNomad |
So which bit did you give me downvote? Citing his dislike of experts or the fact that he owns what he says? You really do come across as an apologist. |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:17 - Apr 1 with 830 views | SpruceMoose |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
The OP is full of it. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:25 - Apr 1 with 810 views | footers |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
The entire purpose of this thread for you is to excuse Gove.
No one can consider that your OP or other political posts are in any way agnostic. Think we can evidence this with the months of swivel-eyed, constant OPs on Labour running up to the election. That and this series of threads which attempts to absolve any Tory ministers of blame.
You're a Tory, we get it. But sometimes Tories make mistakes too. Own it. |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:32 - Apr 1 with 805 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
Shoot someone by mistake, hold your hands up.....move on. Easily done! |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:42 - Apr 1 with 791 views | BlueNomad |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
I think you have answered someone else’s question. You answered without checking! | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 22:03 - Apr 1 with 749 views | Herbivore |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
You really do talk a load of sh!t. |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 07:37 - Apr 2 with 681 views | ElephantintheRoom |
More inportant why are we still having to see and hear the sickening briefings from incompetent pathological liars like Gove and his discredited fellow loons long after the utter incompetence of this callous and dangerously incompetent government's approach has lost all credibility.
It's one thing to bluff and bluster your own country to economic disadavantage through Brexit whilst dangerously running down or destroying vital services and the weflare state - quite another to ignore reality in the face of a golabl pandemic that exposes your previous 12 years in government as dangerously (if not murderously) short sighted. |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 07:48 - Apr 2 with 675 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 19:08 - Apr 1 by hampstead_blue |
our proposed excuse, is not an acceptable reason, for a senior minister to make such a mistake.
In the past honourable ministers used to take responsibility.
You have a belief system, that allows you to excuse behaviour that would be unacceptable, if it were not for your team.
That bit got a downvote I'm afraid.
I've worked in chaos and things change so quickly sometimes you just put it out and move on....not perfect but....either side would be making a mess. Nobody can do this perfectly.
The OP is agnostic |
Just saying something is agnostic doesn't make it so. |  |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:41 - Apr 2 with 649 views | gordon |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 16:42 - Apr 1 by bluelagos |
Late is sense I am getting.
Late to the correct policy, late to lockdown.
Late sorting tests, late sorting ventilators, late sorting PPE.
Whether this is down to govt ineptitude, civil service ineptitude or simply all a symptom of the initial delay in following the current policy (and not herd immunity) none of us can possibly know.
It will come out in the wash when this is all over, hopefully without too many lost lives. |
While we were still following the herd immunity approach, they were briefing that testing was not going to be an important part of the strategy as we moved away from suppression.
That was about two and a half weeks ago - so we do know why we haven't got enough testing capacity. |  | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:45 - Apr 2 with 644 views | No9 |
Maybe Gove isn't a 'bare faces liar' but he is an habitual liar, as history shows.
Wasn't it Gove who brought D Cummings into the tories as his SPAD?
Wasn't it after then Gove said we'd had enough of experts?
Now the tories are going back to stage one & bringing in a Lynton Crosby whiz, Isaac Levido, to help get the lies straight.
Liar in a lie machine | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:48 - Apr 2 with 640 views | No9 |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 14:00 - Apr 1 by longtimefan |
"It’s possible he was given duff info, but the reality is that the government has hidden behind the ‘experts’ and has been chasing behind from the start"
You mean you'd rather have MPs dictating the policy rather than the scientists and experts. Wow! Personally I wouldn't trust a single politicians' views above those of subject experts. |
This bunch of tories don't have MP's dictating policy do they?
Unless you think you voted for D Cummings?
& Gove doesn't like experts- remember that? | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:56 - Apr 2 with 635 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 12:26 - Apr 1 by itfcjoe |
I wonder if Dianne Abbott would have been given the benefit of the doubt like this |
I’m not impressed by Abbott these days, but imagine if she’d gone on air and done this. We wouldn’t hear the end of it.
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:05 - Apr 2 with 630 views | longtimefan |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:48 - Apr 2 by No9 |
This bunch of tories don't have MP's dictating policy do they?
Unless you think you voted for D Cummings?
& Gove doesn't like experts- remember that? |
You obviously misread my post. I said I'd rather have subject experts dictate policy NOT MPs. I've referring to real experts like the CMO and his colleagues not pill0cks like Cummings. I also didn't vote for this Government! | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:16 - Apr 2 with 619 views | Herbivore |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:05 - Apr 2 by longtimefan |
You obviously misread my post. I said I'd rather have subject experts dictate policy NOT MPs. I've referring to real experts like the CMO and his colleagues not pill0cks like Cummings. I also didn't vote for this Government! |
Experts advise, they don't dictate policy. | |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:20 - Apr 2 with 615 views | BloomBlue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 08:56 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not impressed by Abbott these days, but imagine if she’d gone on air and done this. We wouldn’t hear the end of it.
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But on the flip side those who defended Abbott at the time said everyone is allowed to make mistakes and when you have questions thrown at you by a reporter in a live studio it's easy to get a figure muddled and she's only human, some people said they liked her even more as it proved she was human. Well those same people are now criticising a situation where someone has potentially made a mistake a human error but not giving the same leeway as they gave Abbott. Like most things in life people have double standards to suit their side of the argument when it comes to politics |  | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:32 - Apr 2 with 609 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:20 - Apr 2 by BloomBlue |
But on the flip side those who defended Abbott at the time said everyone is allowed to make mistakes and when you have questions thrown at you by a reporter in a live studio it's easy to get a figure muddled and she's only human, some people said they liked her even more as it proved she was human. Well those same people are now criticising a situation where someone has potentially made a mistake a human error but not giving the same leeway as they gave Abbott. Like most things in life people have double standards to suit their side of the argument when it comes to politics |
Abbott got way more criticism than she got support. | |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:55 - Apr 2 with 598 views | longtimefan |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:16 - Apr 2 by Herbivore |
Experts advise, they don't dictate policy. |
True, but in this instance, possibly naively, I like to think that given the prominence of the CMO and other leading experts in the daily coverage, it is their advice that is being followed. | | | |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:57 - Apr 2 with 588 views | Herbivore |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:55 - Apr 2 by longtimefan |
True, but in this instance, possibly naively, I like to think that given the prominence of the CMO and other leading experts in the daily coverage, it is their advice that is being followed. |
They will be given direction on what to advise on, advice is never purely neutral. It depends on what is being asked and what options are being considered. The decisions being made are primarily political. | |
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| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 10:51 - Apr 2 with 567 views | BloomBlue |
| The truth....to the best of one's knowledge on 09:32 - Apr 2 by BrixtonBlue |
Abbott got way more criticism than she got support. |
That wasn't my point, my point was those who defended her made the point humans make errors and that's acceptable, but those same people are now criticising what was potentially a similar human error.
All sides are the same when it comes to politics people have double standards to suit their side of the argument | | | |
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