| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... 13:23 - Apr 19 with 5736 views | monytowbray |
That we’re thinking about COVID too short term.
What we’re actually seeing is the impacts of climate change kicking in and the earth’s temperature is the curve we really need to be flattening. If we go back to what normal was, we’re pretty much resigning civilisation (and possibly our species) into extinction within the next hundred years.
Seeing the global response to this pandemic globally, from long term preparation of governments, ability to act swiftly and the reaction of big business when faced with profit losses, has made me realise we’re not doing enough about a risk that will almost certainly affect my daughter in her life time. We’re already past the point of no return and it will take decades to fix it (if we even can) if we act now and hope we can mitigate some of the risks.
We’re talking food shortages, fuel rations and largely displaced chunks of the population through nothing more than luck of the draw. No one is safe. It won’t magically go away or just be something that affects someone else.
In a way I think COVID could oddly be a blessing in disguise if it’s a wake up call to planet earth. We can impact our social and economic norms right now, but can’t do a lot in 100 years time if the planet is 4 degrees hotter, but if you think the lockdown now is harsh you want to see what climate change will do.
I’ve already made changes in my life over the last few years - veganism, ditching my car, overly hot on recycling, but I personally need to be thinking about more. We all do. A large chunk of recycling doesn’t even get recycled as we don’t have facilities in the UK. We should be outraged but as a species we evidently deal with our problems by ignoring them, and we’re all guilty of it.
If we learn one thing about COVID, it’s that scientists don’t use words like EMERGENCY for a laugh and those warning us are often not taken seriously by the powers that be as it interferes with capitalism.
Let’s be realistic, we could be LITERALLY DOOMED in 100 years if we don’t get this right now.
https://www.unenvironment.org/explore-topics/climate-change/facts-about-climate-
All the best.
[Post edited 19 Apr 2020 13:25]
|  |
| |  |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:26 - Apr 19 with 3288 views | EdwardStone |
Feintly amusing that CV is being blamed on Pangolins...little micro-dinosaurs (ok, mammals really, but they don't half look like something from 1 Million Years BC central casting)
Could it be that the dinosaurs have the last laugh? |  | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:42 - Apr 19 with 3219 views | Darth_Koont |
There's certainly a lot to address in how we emerge from the pandemic and what the priorities are going forward.
Focusing on climate and sustainable economic development seems to be the clear opportunity. Just with air travel, we've already taken the economic hit to the airline industry and also have a period going cold turkey from our own addiction to cheap travel. It would be utter madness to ramp this up again to anything like the previous levels while the environmental cost is so high.
Hopefully the biggest and longest-lasting change will be a shift in how we think about ourselves and the society around us. We've all been humbled to some extent so if there's a greater understanding of the situation and empathy towards mentally and physically vulnerable people, the lowest-paid who keep the economy moving, the public service employees, the poor, the minorities etc. who are still the most affected by this pandemic then there's a lot of potential good to come out of it.
But we also need to be wary of those who would use this to divide people even more by apportioning blame e.g. white nationalists blaming the virus on immigrants. Or those who want to become more insular and throw all the benefits of internationalism out with the bathwater. Or want to use lockdowns and social control to regulate and monitor citizens etc.
We're in the early stages where it makes sense to talk about unity but when this pandemic and its long-term effects really start to bite then we'll have to see how we do.
For us in the UK I think the rhetoric around Brexit and pushing through with it will be the acid test of where we're heading. |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:43 - Apr 19 with 3219 views | monytowbray |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:26 - Apr 19 by EdwardStone |
Feintly amusing that CV is being blamed on Pangolins...little micro-dinosaurs (ok, mammals really, but they don't half look like something from 1 Million Years BC central casting)
Could it be that the dinosaurs have the last laugh? |
Maybe dinosaurs also invented a faux economy to run the world that was then dictated by a handful of greedy dinosaurs who pillaged the world to extort mass wealth and ultimately ended life completely for short term gain whilst the other dinosaurs were too busy stressing about making ends meet day to day to notice what was going on?
Just you wait until they find that fossil of a T Rex holding an iPhone, eating a Kentucky Fried Brontosaurus and wearing Nike Airs. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:47 - Apr 19 with 3205 views | BlueBadger |
Other cheery news - covid-19 causes fibrosis(scarring) of the lungs. 5-10 years down the line, even if if doesn't reoccur like this, it'll be haunting us for the next 20-30 years or so in healthcare. |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:47 - Apr 19 with 3196 views | Herbivore |
I'll be dead in 100 years anyway. If the human race dies out then, frankly, it's probably deserved. We're pretty awful and we've messed the planet right up. |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:49 - Apr 19 with 3186 views | monytowbray |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:47 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
Other cheery news - covid-19 causes fibrosis(scarring) of the lungs. 5-10 years down the line, even if if doesn't reoccur like this, it'll be haunting us for the next 20-30 years or so in healthcare. |
Is that in all patients or just severely affected ones? | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:53 - Apr 19 with 3163 views | monytowbray |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:47 - Apr 19 by Herbivore |
I'll be dead in 100 years anyway. If the human race dies out then, frankly, it's probably deserved. We're pretty awful and we've messed the planet right up. |
My daughter may not be though.
Also, the part I glossed over is 100 years would be when we could hit peak. 30-50 years could be when the ball starts rolling so fast it breaks down society as we know it. Think those pucky Billionaires will be interested in saving us based on their reaction now?
The conspiracy element of my brain makes me wonder if they already know this and hoarding wealth is their survival strategy. Suppose you’ll be fine on a private island with your own custom built eco system and enough money to afford the inflation in essential living needs. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:53 - Apr 19 with 3162 views | BlueBadger |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:49 - Apr 19 by monytowbray |
Is that in all patients or just severely affected ones? |
Mostly the severely affected ones needing ventilation. But anyone who's had a pnemonia and ARDS as a result is at risk. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:57 - Apr 19 with 3136 views | monytowbray |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:53 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
Mostly the severely affected ones needing ventilation. But anyone who's had a pnemonia and ARDS as a result is at risk. |
It all seems a bit small fry for me now after the OP hitting home.
I can’t say much for the source of this article (I found it down a Google hole) but it pretty much nails my feelings on everything. Well worth a read.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/coronavirus-outbreak-part-climate-chan
I supported Extinction Rebellion anyway but now I may join them on the streets now. I knew they were right but now I feel as if I’m not promoting the same message I’m not doing humanity right.
Will probably impact that career change I’ve been considering too since coming to terms with the fact all I do is make money for people with money. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:12 - Apr 19 with 3092 views | Ftnfwest |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 13:53 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
Mostly the severely affected ones needing ventilation. But anyone who's had a pnemonia and ARDS as a result is at risk. |
Is it true that ventilators aren’t necessarily the solution and it’s just getting oxygen into the lungs that counts? In other words the ventilator stresses the lungs too much, particularly in the elderly etc |  | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:20 - Apr 19 with 3067 views | BlueBadger |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:12 - Apr 19 by Ftnfwest |
Is it true that ventilators aren’t necessarily the solution and it’s just getting oxygen into the lungs that counts? In other words the ventilator stresses the lungs too much, particularly in the elderly etc |
As a rule of thumb, the longer you're ventilated, the more risk of damage there is.
This isn't a new thing, it's always been there.
There's always a risk of lung damage from ventilators, particularly in ARDS as the lungs will be very stiff and not expanding enough to oxygenate. We will try to mitigate this by practising 'protective ventilation' measures such as aiming for low lung volumes, techniques such as respositioning the patient, muscle relaxants
The decision to ventilate someone isn't one that's taken lightly and generally resorted to if it's felt that the individuals in question have enough chance of surviving.
In addition to this, in order for you to be ventilated you'll likely need a prolonged general anaesthetic and heavy sedation so you can tolerate all the lines and tubes. A lot of elderly people will not survive initial aneasthetic, let alone be strong enough to recover from being ventilated.
They'll get you out of a hole and DO save lives but they carry a significant risk in themselves, like a lot of other medical treatments and therapies and very much approaching 'last resort' stuff. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 14:29]
| |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:24 - Apr 19 with 3033 views | JakeITFC |
My worry is that with an economy on its knees, environmental corners may be cut in some quarters to get things going again quickly.
I don’t think this is necessarily true of the UK (where the corners have largely already been turned in the energy mix and will be soon in transportation) but certainly could be elsewhere. |  | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:28 - Apr 19 with 3003 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:24 - Apr 19 by JakeITFC |
My worry is that with an economy on its knees, environmental corners may be cut in some quarters to get things going again quickly.
I don’t think this is necessarily true of the UK (where the corners have largely already been turned in the energy mix and will be soon in transportation) but certainly could be elsewhere. |
The only thing I can add of note to this thread is to enquire how your kebab was last night.
I understand it took three hours? |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:32 - Apr 19 with 3000 views | factual_blue |
In the long run we are all dead.
John Maynard Keynes |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:33 - Apr 19 with 2998 views | BlueBadger |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:20 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
As a rule of thumb, the longer you're ventilated, the more risk of damage there is.
This isn't a new thing, it's always been there.
There's always a risk of lung damage from ventilators, particularly in ARDS as the lungs will be very stiff and not expanding enough to oxygenate. We will try to mitigate this by practising 'protective ventilation' measures such as aiming for low lung volumes, techniques such as respositioning the patient, muscle relaxants
The decision to ventilate someone isn't one that's taken lightly and generally resorted to if it's felt that the individuals in question have enough chance of surviving.
In addition to this, in order for you to be ventilated you'll likely need a prolonged general anaesthetic and heavy sedation so you can tolerate all the lines and tubes. A lot of elderly people will not survive initial aneasthetic, let alone be strong enough to recover from being ventilated.
They'll get you out of a hole and DO save lives but they carry a significant risk in themselves, like a lot of other medical treatments and therapies and very much approaching 'last resort' stuff. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 14:29]
|
Additional: if lungs are *that* compromised that even modern ventilators aren't working there's still something called ECMO we can do.
It stands for Extra-Corporeal Membranous Oxygenation.
It's done at specialist centres(Papworth being the Eastern region centre) and involves inserting a HUGE cannula into one of the large blood vessels and directly oxygenating the blood, bypassing the lungs completely.
The lungs will have very, very minimal ventilation so that they don't completely collapse bu they're otherwise completely rested.
Starting it up requires a specialist retrieval team to come out, commandeer an operating theatre, insert the relevent lines and leads, start the process up then load the patient into an ambulance and drive like f*ck down the A14. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:37 - Apr 19 with 2988 views | Ftnfwest |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:33 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
Additional: if lungs are *that* compromised that even modern ventilators aren't working there's still something called ECMO we can do.
It stands for Extra-Corporeal Membranous Oxygenation.
It's done at specialist centres(Papworth being the Eastern region centre) and involves inserting a HUGE cannula into one of the large blood vessels and directly oxygenating the blood, bypassing the lungs completely.
The lungs will have very, very minimal ventilation so that they don't completely collapse bu they're otherwise completely rested.
Starting it up requires a specialist retrieval team to come out, commandeer an operating theatre, insert the relevent lines and leads, start the process up then load the patient into an ambulance and drive like f*ck down the A14. |
All very informative, cheers BB. Papworth not too far from me, most of what they do has been transferred to addenbrookes now | | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:40 - Apr 19 with 2970 views | BlueBadger |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:37 - Apr 19 by Ftnfwest |
All very informative, cheers BB. Papworth not too far from me, most of what they do has been transferred to addenbrookes now |
Not before time, I might add. Fantastic work they do there, but the old building was simply no longer fit for purpose. My dad had a bypass at the old building and my ITU nurse's eye couldn't help noticing the narrow winding corridors and 'make it up as you go along' extensions to the place and thinking 'blimey, I wouldn't want to be escorting a sickie to a scan or theatres down these'. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:45 - Apr 19 with 2958 views | solemio |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:32 - Apr 19 by factual_blue |
In the long run we are all dead.
John Maynard Keynes |
My goodness, that's insightful.
I suppose it's because he was related to the Wedgwood family, Ralph Vaughan Williams and Charles Darwin. |  | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:46 - Apr 19 with 2947 views | Ely_Blue |
Ah there’s always someone ready to turn every silver lining into a cloud, I bet you’re fun at parties! |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:59 - Apr 19 with 2904 views | factual_blue |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:45 - Apr 19 by solemio |
My goodness, that's insightful.
I suppose it's because he was related to the Wedgwood family, Ralph Vaughan Williams and Charles Darwin. |
His brother was married to one of the Darwins, who were of course related to the Wedgewoods. | |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:14 - Apr 19 with 2870 views | monytowbray |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:46 - Apr 19 by Ely_Blue |
Ah there’s always someone ready to turn every silver lining into a cloud, I bet you’re fun at parties! |
Have you ever considered engaging your brain and reading what I post? I know this may be a challenge for you based on your recent history but do try for the sake of your children (assuming if I remember correctly you do have them) as the points in the OP will apply to them.
If you think society and humanity as we’ve known it for thousands of years will look remotely the same with the current projectory and lack of genuinely combative measurements you will be in for a rude awakening. Well no, actually we’ll be dead but we could certainly see the early impacts in a few decades if we live to old age. In fact there are strong scientific arguments COVID is climate change - fuelled by profit mad capitalism to use animals for profit.
Up to you really mate, I’m pretty certain I’m sat on the right side of the fence on this one. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 15:16]
| |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:24 - Apr 19 with 2838 views | Ftnfwest |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 14:40 - Apr 19 by BlueBadger |
Not before time, I might add. Fantastic work they do there, but the old building was simply no longer fit for purpose. My dad had a bypass at the old building and my ITU nurse's eye couldn't help noticing the narrow winding corridors and 'make it up as you go along' extensions to the place and thinking 'blimey, I wouldn't want to be escorting a sickie to a scan or theatres down these'. |
Yep father in law had a bypass there as well | | | |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:32 - Apr 19 with 2822 views | bluelagos |
I'll predict HS2 gets ditched pdq. We have seen / learned how to how meetings remotely. Why the need to travel up/down the country as we have been doing for meetings, for years?
Throw in the financial costs, can see HS2 being quickly dumped /delayed. |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:36 - Apr 19 with 2808 views | Guthrum |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:32 - Apr 19 by bluelagos |
I'll predict HS2 gets ditched pdq. We have seen / learned how to how meetings remotely. Why the need to travel up/down the country as we have been doing for meetings, for years?
Throw in the financial costs, can see HS2 being quickly dumped /delayed. |
That was already the case, even before the current situation. Tho this might concentrate minds.
The problem being the amount of money already spent and the contracts handed out. |  |
| |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:37 - Apr 19 with 2802 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Had a bit of a depressing realisation last night... on 15:32 - Apr 19 by bluelagos |
I'll predict HS2 gets ditched pdq. We have seen / learned how to how meetings remotely. Why the need to travel up/down the country as we have been doing for meetings, for years?
Throw in the financial costs, can see HS2 being quickly dumped /delayed. |
Haven't they just given it the solid green light a couple of days ago?
It's a ridiculous project though IMHO, it would be different in UK was the size of USA or China | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
