| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination 17:04 - Apr 20 with 6840 views | Harry_Palmer |
Novak Djokovic has revealed he is against mandatory vaccination and it could put his tennis career in jeopardy if he is prevented from travelling due to not agreeing to take a future Covid-19 vaccine.
It's a shame the press have to leap in with the immature 'anti-vaxxer' remarks instead of engaging in sensible debate, after all this raises an important debate around civil liberties. If the likes of Bill Gates get their way, nobody will be able to work, travel or do pretty much anything else unless they are up to date with all vaccines and eventually have a microchip or some kind of biometric id to prove it.
To my mind maintaining sovereignty of your own body and what goes into it is a fundamental human right, as are the right to work and travel. If we allow the state to mandate medical interventions in order for us to be active in society then we are going down a potentially very dark road in my view.
I am all for making a vaccine available asap for people who feel they need it but I would strongly oppose it being mandatory, after all if the vaccine works then why should anybody who takes it need to fear somebody that doesn't?
I realise Covid-19 has changed the the landscape considerably but I hope most would agree with maintaining the basic right to medical choice and health freedom. What do the good people of TWTD think?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-novak-djokovic-reveals-hes-an-anti-vaxxer |  | | |  |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:36 - Apr 20 with 529 views | DanTheMan |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:32 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
Not denying it. The horrible problem with this question, neither way is entirely risk free. I can see arguments from both sides in this debate. |
Almost nothing in life is risk free. I could choke eating food, I still need to do it though.
And the risks from dying from a vaccine is far, far less than say if Polio was still rife. |  |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:36 - Apr 20 with 524 views | BlueBadger |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:32 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
Not denying it. The horrible problem with this question, neither way is entirely risk free. I can see arguments from both sides in this debate. |
There really aren't two sides to this, there's the facts and then there's idiots.
Your odds of death from flu are roughly 1 in 10000, your odds of death from a flu jab are one in several million. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:40]
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:37 - Apr 20 with 527 views | StokieBlue |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:12 - Apr 20 by Harry_Palmer |
I'm not sure you can really claim that to be the case for a vaccine that has not yet been produced although I take your general point.
It is my experience though that adverse reactions are both under-reported initially and very much under investigated when they are reported. |
How can you claim there is a chance of a reaction for a vaccine that hasn't even been created yet? You've mentioned vaccine reactions twice now but those aren't for a non-existent C19 vaccine.
It's muddying the waters.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:39 - Apr 20 with 519 views | sparks |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:37 - Apr 20 by StokieBlue |
How can you claim there is a chance of a reaction for a vaccine that hasn't even been created yet? You've mentioned vaccine reactions twice now but those aren't for a non-existent C19 vaccine.
It's muddying the waters.
SB |
Its a selfish thing too.
There are people who cant have the vaccines and/or are immuno compromised. They rely on herd immunity created by vaccines.
So a selfish person who decides that they wont bother- is (1) benefitting form the herd immunity that otehrs have provided by being vaccinated; and (2) reducing the extent of that herd immuunity to the detriment of those who cannot vaccinate. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:41 - Apr 20 with 515 views | StokieBlue |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:31 - Apr 20 by Harry_Palmer |
No, I doubt many people think that. There are however documented cases ( albeit rare ) where people have suffered serious adverse reactions or even died as a result of a vaccine reaction.
Based on this I would suggest it is not unreasonable for people to demand the right to choice. |
Isn't this an inherently selfish position though?
You feel it's risky but want people to make the choice. Most people have it so thus take what you deem is an unacceptable risk from which you get to benefit from herd immunity.
If it's as risky as you claim you should be calling for outright bans for all people.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:41 - Apr 20 with 513 views | factual_blue |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:36 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
There really aren't two sides to this, there's the facts and then there's idiots.
Your odds of death from flu are roughly 1 in 10000, your odds of death from a flu jab are one in several million. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:40]
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It's almost as though people don't understand numbers.
It's a bit like the failure of the third-pound burger in the 1980s. A rival of McDonalds launched a burger to take on the quarter pounder. It failed to be a success. The reason? Apparently people (ok, 'mericans) thought that, as three is a smaller number than four, a burger weighing one-third of a pound was smaller than a burger weighing a quarter of a pound. |  |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:41 - Apr 20 with 505 views | BlueBadger |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:33 - Apr 20 by mos |
He’s stupid because he has an opinion different to you? |
No, he's stupid because he's valuing tennis over other people's health. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:43 - Apr 20 with 505 views | Darth_Koont |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:29 - Apr 20 by homer_123 |
From WHO:
Fact 1: Polio continues to paralyse children
While polio is a distant memory in most of the world, the disease still exists in some places and mainly affects children under 5. One in 200 infections leads to irreversible paralysis (usually in the legs). Among those paralysed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized. |
Just to add to that: If that's anything like the spinal cord injury outcomes I've been looking at in poor and developing countries, the mortality rate keeps going up even if you survive the initial effects.
In many of these countries, a majority of paralysed and bed-ridden patients die from secondary infections like bed sores. Survive all that and they've got to then find a way to survive or be supported by their families who are often close to subsistence levels.
There's no world where anti-vaxxing makes sense because of the knock-on effects to individuals and society as a whole. But it just seems to collide too forcibly with the idea of personal liberty or freedom of choice we've told ourselves is the most important thing of all. |  |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:45 - Apr 20 with 512 views | midastouch |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:36 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
There really aren't two sides to this, there's the facts and then there's idiots.
Your odds of death from flu are roughly 1 in 10000, your odds of death from a flu jab are one in several million. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:40]
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I found this book very revealing. I have no medical background but I have to say that book was interesting.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaccine-Safety-Concerned-Families-Practitioners/dp/1881
Have you ever read anything like that from the other side of the debate? [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:46]
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:47 - Apr 20 with 503 views | sparks |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:41 - Apr 20 by StokieBlue |
Isn't this an inherently selfish position though?
You feel it's risky but want people to make the choice. Most people have it so thus take what you deem is an unacceptable risk from which you get to benefit from herd immunity.
If it's as risky as you claim you should be calling for outright bans for all people.
SB |
Its only selfish if the assessment of risk is unreasonable. Which, objectively speaking, it is. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:01 - Apr 20 with 480 views | pointofblue |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:41 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
No, he's stupid because he's valuing tennis over other people's health. |
Actually, reading the article, it looks like tennis might be the thing which pushes him into having the vaccination.
Edit: Wait, ignore me, I think that’s what you meant. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 19:03]
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:01 - Apr 20 with 482 views | jeera |
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further. |  |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:02 - Apr 20 with 475 views | midastouch |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:01 - Apr 20 by jeera |
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further. |
That's no surprise, you only said to me last night you don't like reading too much information. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:04 - Apr 20 with 468 views | DanTheMan |
I've heard that name before (Neil Z Miller) and surprise surprise he's an anti-vaxxer who has been at it for years.
Also surprise surprise he has absolutely no qualifications.
Oh and he thinks he can talks to Aliens. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:04 - Apr 20 with 458 views | BlueBadger |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:02 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
That's no surprise, you only said to me last night you don't like reading too much information. |
Neither does the bloke who's book you've recommended, given that he's ignoring the freely available information that his concerns are largely b0llocks. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:09 - Apr 20 with 449 views | jeera |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:02 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
That's no surprise, you only said to me last night you don't like reading too much information. |
I'm not understanding the personal dig there.
Feel free to PM me if I've missed something. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 19:10]
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:16 - Apr 20 with 433 views | midastouch |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:04 - Apr 20 by BlueBadger |
Neither does the bloke who's book you've recommended, given that he's ignoring the freely available information that his concerns are largely b0llocks. |
The foreword is written by a former neurosurgeon. Does that not carry an ounce of weight either?
Russell L. Blaylock (born November 15, 1945) is an author and a retired U.S. neurosurgeon. Blaylock introduced a new treatment for a subset of brain tumors, as well as improving certain operations treating water on the brain.
Blaylock was a clinical assistant professor of neurosurgery at the University of Mississippi Medical Center and is currently a visiting professor in the biology department at Belhaven College.[1] He is the author of a number of books and papers, including Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills (1994), Health and Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life (2002), and Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients (2003), and writes a monthly newsletter, the Blaylock Wellness Report.
How do your medical credentials compare to those if you don't mind me asking? | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:17 - Apr 20 with 428 views | jeera |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:02 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
That's no surprise, you only said to me last night you don't like reading too much information. |
Midnight last night:
As you just keep posting link after link of more and more info...
I'm not a slave to your fanciful ideas buddy. Don't be so rude - I civilly posted this:
I think there are many Brexit voters by jeera 20 Apr 2020 0:09Please don't think I'm being rude but there's no chance I'm reading pages of stuff.
It's late, I'm tired and a beer or 2 and a bottle of red later than I was before I'd had beer and the wine.
I am aware that the Eu is far from the perfect entity, but instead of waiting and hoping for it to go wrong in order to be proved right, or something, the UK had a chance to make a few calls of its own and influence the organisation.
Who knows? With our own home-grown geniuses maybe we could have offered something to have made a difference instead of looking to sabotage the relationship recent years.
As for throwing about financial figures, experts aplenty have forecast that the UK could lose a lot of money through business relocation, and general mistrust in us as a trusted partner.
You were right the first time, we will see.
I'd rather not take the risk but there you go. To what gains?
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:19 - Apr 20 with 426 views | DanTheMan |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:16 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
The foreword is written by a former neurosurgeon. Does that not carry an ounce of weight either?
Russell L. Blaylock (born November 15, 1945) is an author and a retired U.S. neurosurgeon. Blaylock introduced a new treatment for a subset of brain tumors, as well as improving certain operations treating water on the brain.
Blaylock was a clinical assistant professor of neurosurgery at the University of Mississippi Medical Center and is currently a visiting professor in the biology department at Belhaven College.[1] He is the author of a number of books and papers, including Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills (1994), Health and Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life (2002), and Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients (2003), and writes a monthly newsletter, the Blaylock Wellness Report.
How do your medical credentials compare to those if you don't mind me asking? |
It's weird how you cut out the last line:
Blaylock has endorsed views inconsistent with the scientific consensus, including that food additives such as aspartame and monosodium glutamate (MSG) are excitotoxic in normal doses.[2][3][4]
Or how about this view he also holds?
Blaylock has called the American medical system 'collectivist' and has suggested that health-care reform efforts under President Obama are masterminded by extragovernmental groups that wish to impose euthanasia.[20] He blamed the purported collectivism of American medicine for the retirement of his friend Miguel Faria. According to Blaylock, the former Soviet Union tried to spread collectivism by covertly introducing illegal drugs and various sexually transmitted diseases into the United States.[20]
As we are just copying from wikipedia. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:22 - Apr 20 with 417 views | midastouch |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:17 - Apr 20 by jeera |
Midnight last night:
As you just keep posting link after link of more and more info...
I'm not a slave to your fanciful ideas buddy. Don't be so rude - I civilly posted this:
I think there are many Brexit voters by jeera 20 Apr 2020 0:09Please don't think I'm being rude but there's no chance I'm reading pages of stuff.
It's late, I'm tired and a beer or 2 and a bottle of red later than I was before I'd had beer and the wine.
I am aware that the Eu is far from the perfect entity, but instead of waiting and hoping for it to go wrong in order to be proved right, or something, the UK had a chance to make a few calls of its own and influence the organisation.
Who knows? With our own home-grown geniuses maybe we could have offered something to have made a difference instead of looking to sabotage the relationship recent years.
As for throwing about financial figures, experts aplenty have forecast that the UK could lose a lot of money through business relocation, and general mistrust in us as a trusted partner.
You were right the first time, we will see.
I'd rather not take the risk but there you go. To what gains?
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If you remember the main theme of that thread was me saying this:
"Here's an idea. How about we all try not to be so hasty to judge others? The judgement carousel is just going round and round and it's going nowhere. Rather than us judging or condemning others there is a better way, that is we keep our focus on our own contributions to the world. How does that sound?"
So you said to me on this thread:
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further.
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So you passed judgement after just 2 sentences. But to be fair, you were still far more open minded that some of the above. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 19:27]
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:25 - Apr 20 with 413 views | jeera |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:22 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
If you remember the main theme of that thread was me saying this:
"Here's an idea. How about we all try not to be so hasty to judge others? The judgement carousel is just going round and round and it's going nowhere. Rather than us judging or condemning others there is a better way, that is we keep our focus on our own contributions to the world. How does that sound?"
So you said to me on this thread:
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further.
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So you passed judgement after just 2 sentences. But to be fair, you were still far more open minded that some of the above. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 19:27]
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How about an apology for the gratuitous insult?
The man isn't in a position to comment on vaccines with the air of authority he uses to sell books. | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:27 - Apr 20 with 406 views | sparks |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:19 - Apr 20 by DanTheMan |
It's weird how you cut out the last line:
Blaylock has endorsed views inconsistent with the scientific consensus, including that food additives such as aspartame and monosodium glutamate (MSG) are excitotoxic in normal doses.[2][3][4]
Or how about this view he also holds?
Blaylock has called the American medical system 'collectivist' and has suggested that health-care reform efforts under President Obama are masterminded by extragovernmental groups that wish to impose euthanasia.[20] He blamed the purported collectivism of American medicine for the retirement of his friend Miguel Faria. According to Blaylock, the former Soviet Union tried to spread collectivism by covertly introducing illegal drugs and various sexually transmitted diseases into the United States.[20]
As we are just copying from wikipedia. |
Lollerskates. Nutjob. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:27 - Apr 20 with 407 views | factual_blue |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:01 - Apr 20 by jeera |
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further. |
To understand the anti-vaxxers, of whom miller is a leading light, read Ben Goldacre's books.
(He is, by the way, an actual qualified medical doctor, whose appointments have included being Wellcome Trust Research Fellow in Epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, and a research fellow at Nuffield College).
miller's organisation - the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute - has a website whose design testifies to their academic and intellectual qualities
http://thinktwice.com/ | |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:28 - Apr 20 with 402 views | sparks |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:22 - Apr 20 by midastouch |
If you remember the main theme of that thread was me saying this:
"Here's an idea. How about we all try not to be so hasty to judge others? The judgement carousel is just going round and round and it's going nowhere. Rather than us judging or condemning others there is a better way, that is we keep our focus on our own contributions to the world. How does that sound?"
So you said to me on this thread:
"He has devoted the past 25 years to educating parents and health practitioners about vaccines".
"Mr. Miller has a degree in psychology."
I can't lie, I didn't read any further.
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So you passed judgement after just 2 sentences. But to be fair, you were still far more open minded that some of the above. [Post edited 20 Apr 2020 19:27]
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He appeas to have been right though doesnt he?
He spotted a red flag and stopped reading. Further research by others confirms that the gentleman in question is one stop short of claiming that the royal family have scales... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:28 - Apr 20 with 401 views | midastouch |
| Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 19:25 - Apr 20 by jeera |
How about an apology for the gratuitous insult?
The man isn't in a position to comment on vaccines with the air of authority he uses to sell books. |
Don't always judge a book by its cover. | |
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