| LATEST SCORE : Boris Johnson 0-194 Sir Keir Starmer 12:41 - May 6 with 14679 views | MaySixth |
Boris Johnson : “International comparisons are not being made”
Keir Starmer : “Here is a slide from last night showing the government making international comparisons”
Silence.
(FIVE) [Post edited 15 Jul 2020 19:50]
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:04 - May 7 with 1224 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 15:51 - May 7 by lowhouseblue |
those things aren't inconsistent. i expect the report to be damning, but i know we'll have to wait for it to come out before you'll be persuaded of that. by 'wait and see' i am saying that i accept i will get nowhere in arguing with you now. simple stuff.
but logical reasoning with dolly is a fools game and i'll leave it there. |
If in doubt just resort to insults... |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:04 - May 7 with 1223 views | noggin |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 15:10 - May 7 by giant_stow |
No, my view of a typical corbynite doesn't match that. I think they're often middle-class profesional types living relatively affluent lives, or throwback semi-pro politicos / protestors, or even just people in fairly comfortable public sector or charitable roles. The common denomintator in my mind is relative personal financial security.
Like I say, I could be wrong, but the fact Corbyn's labour tended to perfom less well up north where people have less, but better in London and other large cities, tends to point that way. |
I don't know the answer, but how did Liverpool vote? |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:04 - May 7 with 1223 views | Darth_Koont |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 15:36 - May 7 by Ryorry |
Just while I wait for coffee to brew & mechanic to arrive.
I spend maybe half hour here at lunchtime & sometimes an hour at night maybe five days a week (more on match days obvs), which means (rather stupidly) I only get 5 1/2 hrs sleep in 24. I get involved on many topics on here other than politics & I have never, ever, swerved anything - people who are prepared to be truthful and objective will know that. On average my working day (outside & in) is 17 hours. You & your obsessiveness with me is not amongst my priorities.
I'm now off to meet the mechanic, give him keys, make coffee & then to the veg plot - oh, sorry, according to you I should have said "swerve" you  |
Interesting ... I'll have a think and get back to you. I've got a cockatoo waiting to be waxed. |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:10 - May 7 with 1213 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:04 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Interesting ... I'll have a think and get back to you. I've got a cockatoo waiting to be waxed. |
Oh this is brilliant. This should be a thing. Who can think up the most elaborate excuses for leaving an argument when the questions get too difficult?
I would LOVE it if Boris came out with "I've got a cockatoo waiting to be waxed" when the questions got too tough. I'd have a lot more respect for him. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:13 - May 7 with 1208 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:00 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
It's cute how you think London and bigger cities are all full of middle-class people! |
Fantastic - I'm getting lectured on what London looks like by an Ipswich lad!
Born and bred - I'm well aware of London's poorer parts and have lived in a fair few, but being the honey pot it is, it attracts the middle classes, aspiring or otherwise..
To Swansea above, I am talking in generalties of course. |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:36 - May 7 with 1182 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:13 - May 7 by giant_stow |
Fantastic - I'm getting lectured on what London looks like by an Ipswich lad!
Born and bred - I'm well aware of London's poorer parts and have lived in a fair few, but being the honey pot it is, it attracts the middle classes, aspiring or otherwise..
To Swansea above, I am talking in generalties of course. |
I'm not an Ipswich lad.
You were suggesting Corbyn voters were middle-class and your evidence was that most of his support was in London and bigger cities. While there are plenty of middle-class people in London, there are masses and masses who aren't. Brixton is a huge Labour area and mostly not middle-class, for example. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:47 - May 7 with 1172 views | noggin |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:36 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
I'm not an Ipswich lad.
You were suggesting Corbyn voters were middle-class and your evidence was that most of his support was in London and bigger cities. While there are plenty of middle-class people in London, there are masses and masses who aren't. Brixton is a huge Labour area and mostly not middle-class, for example. |
Yeah but majority BAME areas don't count.... | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:52 - May 7 with 1168 views | Darth_Koont |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:10 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
Oh this is brilliant. This should be a thing. Who can think up the most elaborate excuses for leaving an argument when the questions get too difficult?
I would LOVE it if Boris came out with "I've got a cockatoo waiting to be waxed" when the questions got too tough. I'd have a lot more respect for him. |
I've got three snakes to braid. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:09 - May 7 with 1151 views | GlasgowBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:03 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
And here's the Glasgow Swerve... |
WTF have I swerved you cretin? You moaned about politicians giving “ pithy soundbites” and I gave you one of Jezza’s. I then gave you another. I can give you another one......
“I am a militant opponent of anti-Semitism and I am absolutely committed to tackling it”. Arf! The most hollow soundbite of his leadership.
For somebody who works in advertising I suggest that you familiar yourself with the meaning of certain words before using them because I didn’t swerve anything. [Post edited 7 May 2020 17:15]
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:12 - May 7 with 1153 views | midastouch |
How many people do you reckon were actually watching? With people mostly stuck indoors perhaps the viewing figures were higher than normal. In 2015 over a million people tuned in to watch Jeremy Corbyn's first PMQs. That was a significantly higher audience than normal.
See here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jermey-corbyn-first-pmqs-viewing-
PMQs can be an interesting watch and I expect Starmer will be more forensic in his questioning (given his legal background) than JC, however, even if he keeps putting Boris on the ropes every Wednesday, it's still likely to have little bearing on the next election.
Thatcher was pretty ropey to start with at PMQs, never did her too much harm. Hague often used to school Blair, again, didn't help him come the next election. It might be good for general party morale but it's unlikely to circulate far and wide enough to move an election result to any significant degree.
But fair play to Starmer, he seems to have started life as leader fairly well. He's not for me (and neither is Boris!) but he's ticked the rights boxes at PMQs so far. |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:23 - May 7 with 1114 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 16:47 - May 7 by noggin |
Yeah but majority BAME areas don't count.... |
?
Dolly, London has many more middle class people than Bolsover say. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:23 - May 7 with 1111 views | Darth_Koont |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:09 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
WTF have I swerved you cretin? You moaned about politicians giving “ pithy soundbites” and I gave you one of Jezza’s. I then gave you another. I can give you another one......
“I am a militant opponent of anti-Semitism and I am absolutely committed to tackling it”. Arf! The most hollow soundbite of his leadership.
For somebody who works in advertising I suggest that you familiar yourself with the meaning of certain words before using them because I didn’t swerve anything. [Post edited 7 May 2020 17:15]
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To be fair Corbyn wanted to get the antisemitism complaints handled and suspensions actioned quicker and you and the other "committed" antisemitism campaigners have been utterly silent on the efforts of the Labour HQ right-wingers to stymie that.
Your commitment seems to be conditional as it excludes them, people who work with Steve Bannon, who celebrate Nancy Astor, who defend Orban, who quote Hobson, who promote dual-loyalty like Trump and the BoD themselves. Which isn't really a commitment to fighting antisemitism - it looks suspiciously like an absolute commitment to fighting left-wingers. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:38 - May 7 with 1084 views | Sarge |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 08:23 - May 7 by jimmyvet |
My goodness he is an improvement but come on GB that’s not difficult when you look at what he was replacing ...the worst leader in Labour history. But it does feel so much better having an opposition led by an individual who clearly has some skills and intelligence his biggest issue for me is he’s as dull as dish water and absolutely zero charisma. I wish him well though as it’s important we have an opposition that can hold the government to account and also offer an alternative to the vast majority of the the population at elections. |
One of the definitions of charisma is “can attract, influence, and inspire people by their personal qualities”^ so I think it’s unfair to say he doesn’t have any when clearly he’s getting the attention of even people like you on the other side of the political persuasion with his intelligence and skills.
^Collins dictionary [Post edited 7 May 2020 17:39]
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:53 - May 7 with 1074 views | tractordownsouth |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 11:26 - May 7 by giant_stow |
Blaming us voters again. See?
Everyone else's fault, but the man and the movement behind him.
Poorer people will be thanking him for decades to come. |
Sorry didn't mean to downvote |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 18:54 - May 7 with 1044 views | Clapham_Junction |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 15:10 - May 7 by giant_stow |
No, my view of a typical corbynite doesn't match that. I think they're often middle-class profesional types living relatively affluent lives, or throwback semi-pro politicos / protestors, or even just people in fairly comfortable public sector or charitable roles. The common denomintator in my mind is relative personal financial security.
Like I say, I could be wrong, but the fact Corbyn's labour tended to perfom less well up north where people have less, but better in London and other large cities, tends to point that way. |
I think that's more about demographics - larger cities having higher concentrations of younger people who have moved there for study or work and who want to see some radical changes in things like the housing market (hence why London was a particular hotbed of support).
Tower Hamlets is an odd borough politically so perhaps not a good comparator, but locally it seems to be largely the case that the better-off (financially secure) members of the party are Progress types. |  | | |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:06 - May 7 with 1033 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:09 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
WTF have I swerved you cretin? You moaned about politicians giving “ pithy soundbites” and I gave you one of Jezza’s. I then gave you another. I can give you another one......
“I am a militant opponent of anti-Semitism and I am absolutely committed to tackling it”. Arf! The most hollow soundbite of his leadership.
For somebody who works in advertising I suggest that you familiar yourself with the meaning of certain words before using them because I didn’t swerve anything. [Post edited 7 May 2020 17:15]
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Erm, I made a few points, all of which you ignored...
1. That you were doing whatabouterry (that apparently only you are allowed to do).
2. That, "For the many not the few" has some meaning behind it as it's the whole ethos of the Labour Party.
3. And that 'Get Brexit Done" being trumpeted every 3rd sentence is a bit different to the above - fairly meaningless and just a soundbite to appeal to a certain lowest common denominator demographic.
You ignored all of these and just posted another slogan. So how is this not a swerve (x3)? | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:12 - May 7 with 1023 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 17:23 - May 7 by giant_stow |
?
Dolly, London has many more middle class people than Bolsover say. |
What a bizarre argument. The capital city has more middle class people than a small town between Chesterfield and Worksop?!?
Well knock me down with a feather!
The capital city has more wheelie bins than Wetwang... which is a small town outside Hull.
Your go! | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:15 - May 7 with 1021 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 18:54 - May 7 by Clapham_Junction |
I think that's more about demographics - larger cities having higher concentrations of younger people who have moved there for study or work and who want to see some radical changes in things like the housing market (hence why London was a particular hotbed of support).
Tower Hamlets is an odd borough politically so perhaps not a good comparator, but locally it seems to be largely the case that the better-off (financially secure) members of the party are Progress types. |
Fair enough mr, you could be right. Although young people may well feel more ready to take a risk on their political choices (or indeed anything) than an older bod with more responsibilities. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:17 - May 7 with 1017 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:12 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
What a bizarre argument. The capital city has more middle class people than a small town between Chesterfield and Worksop?!?
Well knock me down with a feather!
The capital city has more wheelie bins than Wetwang... which is a small town outside Hull.
Your go! |
Apologies sir, let me add the word 'proportionately' to my previous post:
"Dolly, London has many more middle class people proportionately, than Bolsover say."
happier? | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:33 - May 7 with 1004 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:17 - May 7 by giant_stow |
Apologies sir, let me add the word 'proportionately' to my previous post:
"Dolly, London has many more middle class people proportionately, than Bolsover say."
happier? |
Not particularly. I don't know anything about Bolsover and you seem to be obfuscating the point. You were claiming Corbyn's voters are middle class because London and big cities hosted a lot of his support... but London and big cities have lots of non-middle class voters as well. So your point doesn't make any sense. The proportion of middle class people in Bolsover has nothing to do with it.
Basically your evidence that Corbyn voters are middle class is flimsy at best.
Also the term 'big cities' is pretty vague. Like Hull, for example, is a big city. Would you call it working class? | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:38 - May 7 with 1001 views | NewcyBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:33 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
Not particularly. I don't know anything about Bolsover and you seem to be obfuscating the point. You were claiming Corbyn's voters are middle class because London and big cities hosted a lot of his support... but London and big cities have lots of non-middle class voters as well. So your point doesn't make any sense. The proportion of middle class people in Bolsover has nothing to do with it.
Basically your evidence that Corbyn voters are middle class is flimsy at best.
Also the term 'big cities' is pretty vague. Like Hull, for example, is a big city. Would you call it working class? |
You’ve just moved in with your lass, stop arguing and go and get up to your nuts in guts! |  |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:41 - May 7 with 999 views | Clapham_Junction |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:15 - May 7 by giant_stow |
Fair enough mr, you could be right. Although young people may well feel more ready to take a risk on their political choices (or indeed anything) than an older bod with more responsibilities. |
So you've gone from financially secure types voting for Corbyn because they aren't going to be impacted too badly, to financially secure types opposing him because they are?
This just comes across as you taking whatever position justifies your views that people who supported him are the problem (and absolving those that didn't), regardless of what their rationales for supporting him were. | | | |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:43 - May 7 with 998 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:33 - May 7 by BrixtonBlue |
Not particularly. I don't know anything about Bolsover and you seem to be obfuscating the point. You were claiming Corbyn's voters are middle class because London and big cities hosted a lot of his support... but London and big cities have lots of non-middle class voters as well. So your point doesn't make any sense. The proportion of middle class people in Bolsover has nothing to do with it.
Basically your evidence that Corbyn voters are middle class is flimsy at best.
Also the term 'big cities' is pretty vague. Like Hull, for example, is a big city. Would you call it working class? |
Ah, you don't understand the word 'Proportionately’ — fair enough mr, apologies for leaving it out in the first place (lazy of me).
More apologies for the shorthand 'big cities' — I wasn’t referring to their size, more their outlook and voting behaviour in the last election. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:50 - May 7 with 986 views | giant_stow |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:41 - May 7 by Clapham_Junction |
So you've gone from financially secure types voting for Corbyn because they aren't going to be impacted too badly, to financially secure types opposing him because they are?
This just comes across as you taking whatever position justifies your views that people who supported him are the problem (and absolving those that didn't), regardless of what their rationales for supporting him were. |
"So you've gone from financially secure types voting for Corbyn because they aren't going to be impacted too badly, to financially secure types opposing him because they are? "
I don't think I said that no, but not sure I understand what you're saying, so any chance of clarifying?
If it helps, I was talking about youngsters moving to London and feeling they could take a risk with life ahead of them and no dependants, but middle-aged Joe in Bolsover not being so keen cos he's got kids and elderly parents to think of. This point was nothing to do with wealth - more about what you were syaing about demographics. | |
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| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 20:11 - May 7 with 968 views | BrixtonBlue |
| FT : Boris Johnson 0-3 Sir Keir Starmer on 19:38 - May 7 by NewcyBlue |
You’ve just moved in with your lass, stop arguing and go and get up to your nuts in guts! |
To be honest mate, I'm worn out  | |
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