| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... 10:01 - May 10 with 3801 views | itfcjoe |
....is how will that fit with any performance clauses in Lambert's contract.
Will he have missed targets, will Evans be able to get rid more cheaply than paying up a silly amount?
Guess the only way we'll know for sure is if he does get the boot, because even if Evans does have the opportunity to doesn't mean he'll take it. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:08 - May 10 with 3167 views | ITFC_Forever |
Lambert will be staying.
It’s typical of us that a global pandemic comes along and saves an incompetent fool (who has made a complete balls up of a massive season) from deservedly getting the sack. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:29 - May 10 with 3132 views | patrickswell |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:08 - May 10 by ITFC_Forever |
Lambert will be staying.
It’s typical of us that a global pandemic comes along and saves an incompetent fool (who has made a complete balls up of a massive season) from deservedly getting the sack. |
I think he would have stayed regardless. It looks increasingly like bouncing back at the first attempt was never the over-riding priority of those in charge. I think Evans would be happy with a stable League One side tilting at the play-offs all while there is vague talk of a plan and “Marcus’s vision”.
The only things that will move Lambert on quickly will be if we fight a League One relegation battle or serious supporter unrest targeting Lambert and Evans. The rumblings started in the last few home games before the hiatus and would probably have got more toxic over the remainder of the season.
Evans, Lambert and the squad need to use the breathing space well, because otherwise they are only going to store up problems which will come bursting to the surface once fans are able to reattend matches. |  | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:30 - May 10 with 3131 views | Ace_High1 |
Joe whilst I know you want Lambert out, your one of the more sensible posters on here. You must realise given the financial burden the current pandemic will put on us (on top of our poor financial position anyway) that there is no way Evans will take any action that will cost unnecessary money.
Whilst we can all argue about the longer term impact of Lambert staying on and us not getting promoted, Evans is not going to part with money to pay up a contract when he doesn't have to.
He will be keeping things as tight as ever for the next 12 months. |  | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:32 - May 10 with 3109 views | BlueBadger |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:30 - May 10 by Ace_High1 |
Joe whilst I know you want Lambert out, your one of the more sensible posters on here. You must realise given the financial burden the current pandemic will put on us (on top of our poor financial position anyway) that there is no way Evans will take any action that will cost unnecessary money.
Whilst we can all argue about the longer term impact of Lambert staying on and us not getting promoted, Evans is not going to part with money to pay up a contract when he doesn't have to.
He will be keeping things as tight as ever for the next 12 months. |
You could make a pretty strong argument for saying that keeping Lambert on will ultimately cost more than it will save. The trouble is, the up-front costs are pretty high.. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:32 - May 10 with 3107 views | BlueBadger |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:29 - May 10 by patrickswell |
I think he would have stayed regardless. It looks increasingly like bouncing back at the first attempt was never the over-riding priority of those in charge. I think Evans would be happy with a stable League One side tilting at the play-offs all while there is vague talk of a plan and “Marcus’s vision”.
The only things that will move Lambert on quickly will be if we fight a League One relegation battle or serious supporter unrest targeting Lambert and Evans. The rumblings started in the last few home games before the hiatus and would probably have got more toxic over the remainder of the season.
Evans, Lambert and the squad need to use the breathing space well, because otherwise they are only going to store up problems which will come bursting to the surface once fans are able to reattend matches. |
I'm sure Lambert will use this time as well as he did his 'free hit' last season.. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:36 - May 10 with 3095 views | NotSure |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:08 - May 10 by ITFC_Forever |
Lambert will be staying.
It’s typical of us that a global pandemic comes along and saves an incompetent fool (who has made a complete balls up of a massive season) from deservedly getting the sack. |
I know everyone likes to think of Marcus Evans as an incompetent fool but I'm not buying it. There is no way he gave a manager, whose team had been struggling for the past 2 months, a 5 year contract without clauses.
And I believe that we had to get promoted by 2021 or Lambert is sacked. So yes Lambert gets another season and lets just hope he has learnt from this one. |  | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:44 - May 10 with 3069 views | patrickswell |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:32 - May 10 by BlueBadger |
I'm sure Lambert will use this time as well as he did his 'free hit' last season.. |
Indeed and nobody ever does cf: Keane and Jewell after traumatic first seasons led on to even more traumatic second seasons.
Lambert and the club have been caught between two stools, I think. Go straight back up with a squad which I don’t think Lambert rates (imagine having to work with most of the dross Hurst signed, some of the worst technical and mentally weak players we’ve ever had) or do you build? The problem is the whole Evans era has been jam tomorrow and a public declaration to learn from mistakes, but they never do. And the one time Evans was in a strong position, he acted to smother it and found a willing public shield for doing so in McCarthy.
Lambert needs to set on a course now and go for that. If we could see what he was trying to do, then fair enough. But this rudderless, brainless decision making has to stop. | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:46 - May 10 with 3065 views | itfcjoe |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:30 - May 10 by Ace_High1 |
Joe whilst I know you want Lambert out, your one of the more sensible posters on here. You must realise given the financial burden the current pandemic will put on us (on top of our poor financial position anyway) that there is no way Evans will take any action that will cost unnecessary money.
Whilst we can all argue about the longer term impact of Lambert staying on and us not getting promoted, Evans is not going to part with money to pay up a contract when he doesn't have to.
He will be keeping things as tight as ever for the next 12 months. |
Without knowing the details of the contract it's hard to know whether that will be the case.
Just putting some hypotheticals to it, and going on bits I've gleaned from likes of Phil and the EADT guys it seems it is something like this:
Miss top 6 - there is a clause that can be paid
Normal sacking - 2 years salary
The Mail survey with a Southern based L1 manager earning £550k (Lambert?)
If those are correct, then Lambert has 5 years left on a deal, and is due £2.75m salary over that time
If he is to be sacked at any point before then (without clauses) then he is due £1.1m
What is the payment if he misses the target, even if 6 months salary that is £275k.
Now obviously those numbers are hypothetical, but there must be a real chance that Evans see this as an opportunity to lose an underperforming and expensive manager and appoint someone cheaper. There could easily be a year one saving that way? | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:48 - May 10 with 3048 views | patrickswell |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:36 - May 10 by NotSure |
I know everyone likes to think of Marcus Evans as an incompetent fool but I'm not buying it. There is no way he gave a manager, whose team had been struggling for the past 2 months, a 5 year contract without clauses.
And I believe that we had to get promoted by 2021 or Lambert is sacked. So yes Lambert gets another season and lets just hope he has learnt from this one. |
He is an incompetent fool. Just look at how he bungled the post playoff seasons. He had a ground that was full and a team on an upward curve for the first time in his ownership, but instead chose to continue giving his manager pennies and actively promoted the culture of ennui that has suffocated the club over the last 5 years. | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:51 - May 10 with 3039 views | OhDavidMcgoldrick |
I can certainly see Lambert leaving as soon as the league is finalised, particularly with the threat of no football for a year.
With Chambers close to retiring and already on the wage bill for that year, I would not be surprised to see him given the role, at least on a provisional basis. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:59 - May 10 with 2998 views | Chrisd |
It won’t happen. The heat has gone off PL and the virus has rightly attracted people’s attention. Whatever was written in his contract certainly wouldn’t have taken this into consideration, so it’s not worth the paper it’s written on. He’ll still be our manager for the foreseeable future, you just hope he’s learnt and thought long and hard on what he needs to improve on as a manager while away from the game. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:10 - May 10 with 2976 views | Chrisd |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:36 - May 10 by NotSure |
I know everyone likes to think of Marcus Evans as an incompetent fool but I'm not buying it. There is no way he gave a manager, whose team had been struggling for the past 2 months, a 5 year contract without clauses.
And I believe that we had to get promoted by 2021 or Lambert is sacked. So yes Lambert gets another season and lets just hope he has learnt from this one. |
If we can see that he’s actually building something , playing more of our younger players and playing some decent attacking football, I’d be content to see us developing even if that means 1 or 2 seasons at this level before getting promoted. Currently, we aren’t good enough and are a long way short of competing in the Championship with this squad. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:20 - May 10 with 2942 views | Ace_High1 |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:46 - May 10 by itfcjoe |
Without knowing the details of the contract it's hard to know whether that will be the case.
Just putting some hypotheticals to it, and going on bits I've gleaned from likes of Phil and the EADT guys it seems it is something like this:
Miss top 6 - there is a clause that can be paid
Normal sacking - 2 years salary
The Mail survey with a Southern based L1 manager earning £550k (Lambert?)
If those are correct, then Lambert has 5 years left on a deal, and is due £2.75m salary over that time
If he is to be sacked at any point before then (without clauses) then he is due £1.1m
What is the payment if he misses the target, even if 6 months salary that is £275k.
Now obviously those numbers are hypothetical, but there must be a real chance that Evans see this as an opportunity to lose an underperforming and expensive manager and appoint someone cheaper. There could easily be a year one saving that way? |
Thanks, that is perfectly reasonable, but I just don't see it, not least from a cash flow perspective.
You have to factor in the staff costs as well, if Lambert goes, so does Taylor, Gill and a few more. Evans will not want to be parting with £400k - £600k right now when there is no money coming in and no certainty when it will be starting again.
Then factor in the "hassle" of changing a management team right now. Does he really want to be holding interviews etc and having a change at the top when he is dealing with the EFL and everything else. During times of uncertainty, most people will stick with stability and not make changes.
I am not saying that is right, nor do I rate Lambert but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. [Post edited 10 May 2020 11:29]
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:21 - May 10 with 2941 views | IpswichKnight |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 10:46 - May 10 by itfcjoe |
Without knowing the details of the contract it's hard to know whether that will be the case.
Just putting some hypotheticals to it, and going on bits I've gleaned from likes of Phil and the EADT guys it seems it is something like this:
Miss top 6 - there is a clause that can be paid
Normal sacking - 2 years salary
The Mail survey with a Southern based L1 manager earning £550k (Lambert?)
If those are correct, then Lambert has 5 years left on a deal, and is due £2.75m salary over that time
If he is to be sacked at any point before then (without clauses) then he is due £1.1m
What is the payment if he misses the target, even if 6 months salary that is £275k.
Now obviously those numbers are hypothetical, but there must be a real chance that Evans see this as an opportunity to lose an underperforming and expensive manager and appoint someone cheaper. There could easily be a year one saving that way? |
I wouldn’t be surprised if ME does pull the trigger it’s a chance to save some cash over the long run. Who he appoints next is a good question, wouldn’t be surprised to see Dyer involved somehow maybe not as manager, could see Shefti he knows the club and didn’t he get an interview last time as well? | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:25 - May 10 with 2936 views | Ace_High1 |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:21 - May 10 by IpswichKnight |
I wouldn’t be surprised if ME does pull the trigger it’s a chance to save some cash over the long run. Who he appoints next is a good question, wouldn’t be surprised to see Dyer involved somehow maybe not as manager, could see Shefti he knows the club and didn’t he get an interview last time as well? |
Hasn't Dyer been outspoken previously and criticised Evans in the media or have I made that up? | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:32 - May 10 with 2916 views | itfcjoe |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:20 - May 10 by Ace_High1 |
Thanks, that is perfectly reasonable, but I just don't see it, not least from a cash flow perspective.
You have to factor in the staff costs as well, if Lambert goes, so does Taylor, Gill and a few more. Evans will not want to be parting with £400k - £600k right now when there is no money coming in and no certainty when it will be starting again.
Then factor in the "hassle" of changing a management team right now. Does he really want to be holding interviews etc and having a change at the top when he is dealing with the EFL and everything else. During times of uncertainty, most people will stick with stability and not make changes.
I am not saying that is right, nor do I rate Lambert but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. [Post edited 10 May 2020 11:29]
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Will be interesting to see how it plays out, I'd sit it at something like 50:50 personally, appreciate the points you make but also think it may be too good an opportunity for him to get out of something he regrets quite quickly - similar to Hurst, the new contract for PL has been an unmitigated disaster. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:46 - May 10 with 2864 views | Bluefish |
Best we can get, lucky to have him, free hit, impossible task etc.
Should also add PL is a blue, he just gets it, gave us our club back, rather be in L1 with him etc [Post edited 10 May 2020 11:47]
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:46 - May 10 with 2866 views | hype313 |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:20 - May 10 by Ace_High1 |
Thanks, that is perfectly reasonable, but I just don't see it, not least from a cash flow perspective.
You have to factor in the staff costs as well, if Lambert goes, so does Taylor, Gill and a few more. Evans will not want to be parting with £400k - £600k right now when there is no money coming in and no certainty when it will be starting again.
Then factor in the "hassle" of changing a management team right now. Does he really want to be holding interviews etc and having a change at the top when he is dealing with the EFL and everything else. During times of uncertainty, most people will stick with stability and not make changes.
I am not saying that is right, nor do I rate Lambert but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. [Post edited 10 May 2020 11:29]
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Think about it, he could get rid of Lambert for pittance, and given football won't be back for the foreseeable he doesn't have to worry about getting in a new manager anytime soon this saving more money.
Give the job to Klug or Keiron on an interim basis until the dust has settled. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:04 - May 10 with 2822 views | Mullet |
I still can't get past that 5 year extension. It was so baffling that day, but even in the context of a global pandemic it is pretty hard to read where that leaves us and Lambert.
My instinct is Evans will stick by him and will have been sold on an academy-led season by PL on the basis of "we've got all these great kids but they were either injured or not quite as far along as hoped" type pitch.
Evans may well see it as a way to a) sell ST's and b) fund the club by putting as many in the shop window as possible in the way he's been able to field interest for Woolfenden, Downes and Dobra already. |  |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:13 - May 10 with 2799 views | Bluefish |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:04 - May 10 by Mullet |
I still can't get past that 5 year extension. It was so baffling that day, but even in the context of a global pandemic it is pretty hard to read where that leaves us and Lambert.
My instinct is Evans will stick by him and will have been sold on an academy-led season by PL on the basis of "we've got all these great kids but they were either injured or not quite as far along as hoped" type pitch.
Evans may well see it as a way to a) sell ST's and b) fund the club by putting as many in the shop window as possible in the way he's been able to field interest for Woolfenden, Downes and Dobra already. |
I don't think it is that baffling. ME had seen our losses grow because the fans went against the manager, attendances dwindled purely because of the manager. PRP comes in and the football becomes worse but the attendances grow, fans publically state that they have their club back and they would rather get relegated with Lambert than return to previous comfort. The attendances keep growing and the fams spend most of the games singing the name of PRP, they stay behind after matches to sing it more and worship him. When PRP speaks out about transfers the fans turn on the owner. If PRP had walked out then the protests against the owner would have been unprecedented, PRP was becoming ITFC for some fans. They couldn't see how bad the football was and they couldn't see the mess and they continued to sing his name. ME did what he thought he needed to do to keep the fans. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:19 - May 10 with 2782 views | Tonytown |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:10 - May 10 by Chrisd |
If we can see that he’s actually building something , playing more of our younger players and playing some decent attacking football, I’d be content to see us developing even if that means 1 or 2 seasons at this level before getting promoted. Currently, we aren’t good enough and are a long way short of competing in the Championship with this squad. |
To be fair since Christmas we've been a long way short of competing in League 1 | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:37 - May 10 with 2755 views | Pablokuqi |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 11:10 - May 10 by Chrisd |
If we can see that he’s actually building something , playing more of our younger players and playing some decent attacking football, I’d be content to see us developing even if that means 1 or 2 seasons at this level before getting promoted. Currently, we aren’t good enough and are a long way short of competing in the Championship with this squad. |
There was no doubt a discussion held about between PL and ME about what happens if we don't go up. I don't think going up this year was the be all and end all in ME mind. There has been a considerable wage saving. We won't know exactly until figures are released but will have dropped from the £18m mark to the £5-6m mark. The likelihood with the players we release that might drop another £1m. Being in L1 has allowed Downes and Woolf to develop and potentially be sold for decent money. The noises recently out of the club has all been about trying to get the young players into the side. That is easier in L1 than the championship. We have a lost a few good u15s u16s recently. By providing a more obvious and quicker pathway to first team we may keep them longer and be able to sell them for more money.
League 1 allows club to exist on lower wages and provide a better opportunity to develop young players and turn a profit. Remember our crowds have been stable so matchday revenue has not been greatly impacted, well up until you know what.
This is the plan with Lambert at the helm. Reconnect to fans, play nice football, play youth players and with the opportunity to compete for promotion to the championship. Oh and clean the roof!
I would be very surprised if Lambert is not in charge for the next couple of seasons at least.
And this was all without Covid19. He is not going to jettison an experienced manager after the PH experiment when he has no idea how a post Covid football landscape is going to look. | | | |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 13:48 - May 10 with 2673 views | BlueBadger |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:37 - May 10 by Pablokuqi |
There was no doubt a discussion held about between PL and ME about what happens if we don't go up. I don't think going up this year was the be all and end all in ME mind. There has been a considerable wage saving. We won't know exactly until figures are released but will have dropped from the £18m mark to the £5-6m mark. The likelihood with the players we release that might drop another £1m. Being in L1 has allowed Downes and Woolf to develop and potentially be sold for decent money. The noises recently out of the club has all been about trying to get the young players into the side. That is easier in L1 than the championship. We have a lost a few good u15s u16s recently. By providing a more obvious and quicker pathway to first team we may keep them longer and be able to sell them for more money.
League 1 allows club to exist on lower wages and provide a better opportunity to develop young players and turn a profit. Remember our crowds have been stable so matchday revenue has not been greatly impacted, well up until you know what.
This is the plan with Lambert at the helm. Reconnect to fans, play nice football, play youth players and with the opportunity to compete for promotion to the championship. Oh and clean the roof!
I would be very surprised if Lambert is not in charge for the next couple of seasons at least.
And this was all without Covid19. He is not going to jettison an experienced manager after the PH experiment when he has no idea how a post Covid football landscape is going to look. |
'Up again or bust' should have always been the strategy. The longer we stay, the less likely we ever are to return to even the upper echelons of the Championship, let alone anything else.
As a savings exercise, staying t he third division makes no sense at all - crowds are smaller, revenues are smaller and outgoing transfer fees are smaller and likely to be minimal in the wake of any post-pandemic squeeze on money.
Hanging on to Lambert will all but guarantee we stay down. He's a busted flush of a manager who's offered nothing by way of progress or plan over the whole of his tenure. Even allowing for the poor hand he was dealt, he's performed appallingly. His only successes have been in the press box and at the negotiating table when his own contract was up for discussion. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 14:16 - May 10 with 2632 views | Chrisd |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 12:19 - May 10 by Tonytown |
To be fair since Christmas we've been a long way short of competing in League 1 |
Very true. | |
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| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 14:18 - May 10 with 2624 views | Chrisd |
| Biggest question to come out of abandoning the league season.... on 13:48 - May 10 by BlueBadger |
'Up again or bust' should have always been the strategy. The longer we stay, the less likely we ever are to return to even the upper echelons of the Championship, let alone anything else.
As a savings exercise, staying t he third division makes no sense at all - crowds are smaller, revenues are smaller and outgoing transfer fees are smaller and likely to be minimal in the wake of any post-pandemic squeeze on money.
Hanging on to Lambert will all but guarantee we stay down. He's a busted flush of a manager who's offered nothing by way of progress or plan over the whole of his tenure. Even allowing for the poor hand he was dealt, he's performed appallingly. His only successes have been in the press box and at the negotiating table when his own contract was up for discussion. |
To be fair, if we’d gone up this season that squad would’ve needed a major overhaul even to survive in the Championship. [Post edited 10 May 2020 14:30]
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