| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight 18:00 - Jun 3 with 18566 views | ElderGrizzly |
Trump is going to lose his sh!t 😬
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:34 - Jun 4 with 1809 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:23 - Jun 4 by footers |
So your counter is that your business has done well? Great.
Unemployment was dropping in every country pretty much pre-crisis, thanks in part to low wages, weaker currencies and increased demand.
America was on the brink of recession thanks to the trade war. Read.
For someone so apparently anti-Trump, you aren't half doing a job going to bat for him. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. |
Again your nit picking parts of my post for your agenda. I’m am recognizing that I think the economy has been strong under him by providing multiple points to back it up. Anything positive in the economy seems to be countered with worldwide economic conditions and the last administration because that’s how political debate works when someone has such a strong view of dislike of an individual. I fail to see the brink of a recession with the continued economic growth as measured by GDP.
Why can’t I agree with some thing’s he done and be appalled by others?
In regards to the economy it’s all a bit of a depressing moot point now anyway. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:34]
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:35 - Jun 4 with 1805 views | Ryorry |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:25 - Jun 4 by reusersfreekicks |
Let me explain. Obama is a decent human being with good morals and principles.
Trump is a self hating everyone else hating, racist, sexist psychopath who has done his best to destroy the notion of international cooperation. He lies continuously and his abysmal leadership regarding Covid 19 will cost thousands of lives.
Still if your business has done well under his leadership then that's all good! [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:53]
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Was going to post along similar lines, but you've put it much better than I could have.
Obama was also a good role model for his thoughtfulness, consideration & cool ratioality. I'd have thought many American youngsters in particular, and therefore the USA as a whole in future, will benefit from his example in that way. Legacy is (well should be anyway) about more than the economy, business & markets, whilst neglecting people and the environment. |  |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:36 - Jun 4 with 1804 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:27 - Jun 4 by m14_blue |
Much as I’m very much in agreement about the relative merits of the last 2 presidents, this is an interesting point, and not one that I had appreciated before.
Would any of the failed gun legislation have gone through with 100% democrat support? If so, it’s a reasonable question to ask of Obama. |
In general, the Dems have been iffy on gun control for many years, way back beyond Obama. Clinton and Gore both ummed and ahhed. Gore made a move but it didn't get anywhere.
As such Obama in his first term didn't really push for gun controls. Despite what he may have thought of the issue himself, if you don't got the votes you don't got the votes. He began a push after Sandy Hook, and as I explained above, that assault rifle bill failed in the senate.
Which is to say, I fail to see how any of that is Obama's fault. Trump also had the House, the Senate and the Executive early on in his term. So if there was any appetite for gun reform on the right he had the votes to push through reform. But yet again the Republicans were't even remotely interested.
So whilst it is true that Dems have been historically rather squeamish about gun control, when they did make a move, it was the Republicans who blocked it. Post 2013 it has been the Republicans who actively set out to to squash gun reform every single time, usually under extreme pressure from the NRA.
As ever, the real explanation as to why America has no meaningful gun control isn't as straight forward as 'Obama didn't do anything'. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:39]
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:42 - Jun 4 with 1783 views | m14_blue |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:36 - Jun 4 by SpruceMoose |
In general, the Dems have been iffy on gun control for many years, way back beyond Obama. Clinton and Gore both ummed and ahhed. Gore made a move but it didn't get anywhere.
As such Obama in his first term didn't really push for gun controls. Despite what he may have thought of the issue himself, if you don't got the votes you don't got the votes. He began a push after Sandy Hook, and as I explained above, that assault rifle bill failed in the senate.
Which is to say, I fail to see how any of that is Obama's fault. Trump also had the House, the Senate and the Executive early on in his term. So if there was any appetite for gun reform on the right he had the votes to push through reform. But yet again the Republicans were't even remotely interested.
So whilst it is true that Dems have been historically rather squeamish about gun control, when they did make a move, it was the Republicans who blocked it. Post 2013 it has been the Republicans who actively set out to to squash gun reform every single time, usually under extreme pressure from the NRA.
As ever, the real explanation as to why America has no meaningful gun control isn't as straight forward as 'Obama didn't do anything'. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:39]
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Really interesting, thanks |  | | |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:43 - Jun 4 with 1782 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:25 - Jun 4 by reusersfreekicks |
Let me explain. Obama is a decent human being with good morals and principles.
Trump is a self hating everyone else hating, racist, sexist psychopath who has done his best to destroy the notion of international cooperation. He lies continuously and his abysmal leadership regarding Covid 19 will cost thousands of lives.
Still if your business has done well under his leadership then that's all good! [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:53]
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So this is a debate about good moral character? I must have missed the memo. I’m pointing out some opinions and criticisms of Obama and the one area I area I have seen as a positive under the Trump administration. Most people seem to have a set agenda on just it as just good vs bad. Personally I couldn’t vote for Trump. I thought Obama was a great speaker but didn’t back it up enough. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:45 - Jun 4 with 1776 views | footers |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:34 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Again your nit picking parts of my post for your agenda. I’m am recognizing that I think the economy has been strong under him by providing multiple points to back it up. Anything positive in the economy seems to be countered with worldwide economic conditions and the last administration because that’s how political debate works when someone has such a strong view of dislike of an individual. I fail to see the brink of a recession with the continued economic growth as measured by GDP.
Why can’t I agree with some thing’s he done and be appalled by others?
In regards to the economy it’s all a bit of a depressing moot point now anyway. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:34]
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Why include it if you didn't want it mentioned? Best not to use parts of an argument you're not comfortable with.
The US is heavily indebted. If you can't see the precariousness of that, despite relative GDP, then I'm not sure you're cut out for talking economics.
Trump had a relative economic headwind. That is not due to his 'expertise', it is merely by accident. The fact that you somehow credit him for it is telling though.
Given your grammar, spelling and misuse of English, I'll leave it at that considering you've obviously been out for a few lunchtime beers. |  |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:47 - Jun 4 with 1771 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:43 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
So this is a debate about good moral character? I must have missed the memo. I’m pointing out some opinions and criticisms of Obama and the one area I area I have seen as a positive under the Trump administration. Most people seem to have a set agenda on just it as just good vs bad. Personally I couldn’t vote for Trump. I thought Obama was a great speaker but didn’t back it up enough. |
The point being he frequently didn't have the political tools or capital at his disposal to implement what he talked about wanting to implement.
You need to remember the Republicans were hell bent on detailing his presidency at every turn, like never seen before. I personally believe it was all about racism. They could not tolerate a black man and his family in the White House.
If the Republicans had been willing to work with the Democrats over those eight years I imagine we'd be enjoying a vastly different USA today. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:49 - Jun 4 with 1766 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:36 - Jun 4 by SpruceMoose |
In general, the Dems have been iffy on gun control for many years, way back beyond Obama. Clinton and Gore both ummed and ahhed. Gore made a move but it didn't get anywhere.
As such Obama in his first term didn't really push for gun controls. Despite what he may have thought of the issue himself, if you don't got the votes you don't got the votes. He began a push after Sandy Hook, and as I explained above, that assault rifle bill failed in the senate.
Which is to say, I fail to see how any of that is Obama's fault. Trump also had the House, the Senate and the Executive early on in his term. So if there was any appetite for gun reform on the right he had the votes to push through reform. But yet again the Republicans were't even remotely interested.
So whilst it is true that Dems have been historically rather squeamish about gun control, when they did make a move, it was the Republicans who blocked it. Post 2013 it has been the Republicans who actively set out to to squash gun reform every single time, usually under extreme pressure from the NRA.
As ever, the real explanation as to why America has no meaningful gun control isn't as straight forward as 'Obama didn't do anything'. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:39]
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I don’t disagree with most of that, I thought the best chance of reform was under him though. Most polls show after Sandy Hook over half of the American people were in favor of tougher gun laws. It’s never been a Democrat V Republican straight up issue. After these looting their will be a new agenda spin on it from the NRA types. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:52 - Jun 4 with 1756 views | Darth_Koont |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:49 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t disagree with most of that, I thought the best chance of reform was under him though. Most polls show after Sandy Hook over half of the American people were in favor of tougher gun laws. It’s never been a Democrat V Republican straight up issue. After these looting their will be a new agenda spin on it from the NRA types. |
But the Republicans weren't going to vote for it. |  |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:54 - Jun 4 with 1751 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:49 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t disagree with most of that, I thought the best chance of reform was under him though. Most polls show after Sandy Hook over half of the American people were in favor of tougher gun laws. It’s never been a Democrat V Republican straight up issue. After these looting their will be a new agenda spin on it from the NRA types. |
You're right, gun control isn't really a Democrat v Republican voter issue. I've seen polls where an assault weapons ban is supported across the political spectrum.
The problem is Republican politicians. They're so indebted and compromised by their links to the NRA, they've taken too much of their money and they're scared of them. The history of the NRA from when it first began as a gun training and safety organisation to the massive lobbying monster it is today is actually pretty interesting, and massively depressing. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:55]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:03 - Jun 4 with 1735 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:52 - Jun 4 by Darth_Koont |
But the Republicans weren't going to vote for it. |
Republicans are never going to vote for it.
Gun control is only going to come with a Democratic president and a Democrat majority House and Senate. Most likely the filibuster will need to be removed too. Even then, the Supreme Court will most likely block it seeing as its stuffed with Trump's cronies.
Although, the one good thing about Trump breaking all accepted norms is that the Republicans need to watch out the next time the Democrats have power. It'll backfire eventually.
Gun control and Green New Deal enacted through guns and climate change being declared as a state of national emergency? Thank you very much. Additional judges added to the Supreme Court? Yes please. Statehood for DC and Puerto Rico (coming with a shed load of Democratic votes)? Lovely job.
All bets will be off now they've opened the door to doing whatever the hell you like. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:05 - Jun 4 with 1733 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:45 - Jun 4 by footers |
Why include it if you didn't want it mentioned? Best not to use parts of an argument you're not comfortable with.
The US is heavily indebted. If you can't see the precariousness of that, despite relative GDP, then I'm not sure you're cut out for talking economics.
Trump had a relative economic headwind. That is not due to his 'expertise', it is merely by accident. The fact that you somehow credit him for it is telling though.
Given your grammar, spelling and misuse of English, I'll leave it at that considering you've obviously been out for a few lunchtime beers. |
I am comfortable with it because there’s a correlation with it growing in a successful economy, we are now in an awful state. I’m on my phone so you’ll have to excuse the typos.
You’re bringing new elements into the conversation and saying I’m not qualified to talk to you. The total debt has increased over all of the last three administrations. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:11 - Jun 4 with 1720 views | Darth_Koont |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:03 - Jun 4 by SpruceMoose |
Republicans are never going to vote for it.
Gun control is only going to come with a Democratic president and a Democrat majority House and Senate. Most likely the filibuster will need to be removed too. Even then, the Supreme Court will most likely block it seeing as its stuffed with Trump's cronies.
Although, the one good thing about Trump breaking all accepted norms is that the Republicans need to watch out the next time the Democrats have power. It'll backfire eventually.
Gun control and Green New Deal enacted through guns and climate change being declared as a state of national emergency? Thank you very much. Additional judges added to the Supreme Court? Yes please. Statehood for DC and Puerto Rico (coming with a shed load of Democratic votes)? Lovely job.
All bets will be off now they've opened the door to doing whatever the hell you like. |
I'm up for that.
The US won't change electorally anytime soon. It needs a Democratic President to become a benign dictator.
And I guarantee there will be no effective loss in democratic representation from what we see today. Probably a net gain.
That's not going to be Biden though. It would be Sanders but he can't get the nomination let alone win an election. There's the rub. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:18 - Jun 4 with 1700 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:11 - Jun 4 by Darth_Koont |
I'm up for that.
The US won't change electorally anytime soon. It needs a Democratic President to become a benign dictator.
And I guarantee there will be no effective loss in democratic representation from what we see today. Probably a net gain.
That's not going to be Biden though. It would be Sanders but he can't get the nomination let alone win an election. There's the rub. |
That’s right he won’t, America isn’t socialist. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight (n/t) on 23:19 - Jun 4 with 1699 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:18 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That’s right he won’t, America isn’t socialist. |
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 23:20]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:20 - Jun 4 with 1698 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:18 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That’s right he won’t, America isn’t socialist. |
And nor is Sanders.
Unless you think the fine state of Vermont has been run like the USSR for the last few years... More Ben and Jerry's Comrade?!
Sanders as socialist is just some daft Trumpian talking point. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 23:22]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:24 - Jun 4 with 1689 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:33 - Jun 4 by vapour_trail |
You’re doing the same thing about the left though Joey.
You see that, no?
Anyway, I make your analysis of Obama the drone king, a bit further up, pretty on the money. |
Apart from actually acknowledging many of the bad things about Trump and going up against the masses but sure.
Yes he was the drone king and check his statistics on deportations of undocumented immigrations. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:24 - Jun 4 with 1688 views | footers |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:05 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I am comfortable with it because there’s a correlation with it growing in a successful economy, we are now in an awful state. I’m on my phone so you’ll have to excuse the typos.
You’re bringing new elements into the conversation and saying I’m not qualified to talk to you. The total debt has increased over all of the last three administrations. |
"we are now in an awful state"
Didn't know you were in Florida. My condolences. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:39 - Jun 4 with 1671 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:24 - Jun 4 by footers |
"we are now in an awful state"
Didn't know you were in Florida. My condolences. |
Only twice a year. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:41 - Jun 4 with 1669 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:24 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Apart from actually acknowledging many of the bad things about Trump and going up against the masses but sure.
Yes he was the drone king and check his statistics on deportations of undocumented immigrations. |
Hold up. Imma stop you right there with another fact check.
Regarding deportations, it's not as straightforward as you make out.
Clinton deported 12 million during his time in office.
Bush deported 10 million
Obama deported around 5 millIon.
The Obama administration prioritised deporting people convicted of serious crimes and the most recent arrivals -people who had been here for 20 years, without criminal records, with families, with roots and jobs didn't tend to be a target.
So far Trump has deported around 1 million, but his administration has focused on just deporting as many people as they can without worrying about individual circumstances.
I ask myself, which is a more humane approach to deportations? Focusing on felons and the newly arrived who haven't had the time to put down roots here, or long term residents of the US with roots in the community, with jobs, with families?
Either way, Obama's record on deportations is hardly anywhere near the worst. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 23:45]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:56 - Jun 4 with 1633 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:41 - Jun 4 by SpruceMoose |
Hold up. Imma stop you right there with another fact check.
Regarding deportations, it's not as straightforward as you make out.
Clinton deported 12 million during his time in office.
Bush deported 10 million
Obama deported around 5 millIon.
The Obama administration prioritised deporting people convicted of serious crimes and the most recent arrivals -people who had been here for 20 years, without criminal records, with families, with roots and jobs didn't tend to be a target.
So far Trump has deported around 1 million, but his administration has focused on just deporting as many people as they can without worrying about individual circumstances.
I ask myself, which is a more humane approach to deportations? Focusing on felons and the newly arrived who haven't had the time to put down roots here, or long term residents of the US with roots in the community, with jobs, with families?
Either way, Obama's record on deportations is hardly anywhere near the worst. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 23:45]
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Of course you are.
Obama had a very aggressive and effective deportation policy though. These numbers would stagger people if you actually asked who deported more illegal immigrants. Trump is making it harder from abroad and going after work visas and changing legislation. The domestic deportation stuff he’s just clogging the system with no real policy from what I can see. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 00:02 - Jun 5 with 1623 views | SpruceMoose |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:56 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Of course you are.
Obama had a very aggressive and effective deportation policy though. These numbers would stagger people if you actually asked who deported more illegal immigrants. Trump is making it harder from abroad and going after work visas and changing legislation. The domestic deportation stuff he’s just clogging the system with no real policy from what I can see. |
Obama more aggressive than Trump? My definition of more aggressive involves taking children away from families and leaving them to die in cages but that's just me.
I doubt anyone would be surprised that the US government deported more people in 8 years than in 4. Luckily, Trump,is crap at everything he turns his hand to so I'm not surprised he hasn't deported as many people as his cultists demand.
I'm sorry if you find facts inconvenient, but I've caught you trying to smuggle a few dodgy statements through tonight, presumably in the hope that some folk might not know better. Well, I work in an area that touches upon these subjects, so I do know better I'm afraid.
And with that, I'll barrel roll out of this thread for the evening. I'll do another fact check tomorrow.
Good night all! [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 0:11]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 01:42 - Jun 5 with 1550 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 00:02 - Jun 5 by SpruceMoose |
Obama more aggressive than Trump? My definition of more aggressive involves taking children away from families and leaving them to die in cages but that's just me.
I doubt anyone would be surprised that the US government deported more people in 8 years than in 4. Luckily, Trump,is crap at everything he turns his hand to so I'm not surprised he hasn't deported as many people as his cultists demand.
I'm sorry if you find facts inconvenient, but I've caught you trying to smuggle a few dodgy statements through tonight, presumably in the hope that some folk might not know better. Well, I work in an area that touches upon these subjects, so I do know better I'm afraid.
And with that, I'll barrel roll out of this thread for the evening. I'll do another fact check tomorrow.
Good night all! [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 0:11]
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I didn’t say more aggressive than Trump, I’m not comparing the two, you are one doing that on your first reply. I’m stating the fact that the lines might be more blurred that they appear for everyone that is saying how appalling Trump is on things like immigration and how godlike Obama was.
Also I was comparing his first term to Trumps first four years thus far in terms of the numbers. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 03:18 - Jun 5 with 1522 views | Ryorry |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:43 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
So this is a debate about good moral character? I must have missed the memo. I’m pointing out some opinions and criticisms of Obama and the one area I area I have seen as a positive under the Trump administration. Most people seem to have a set agenda on just it as just good vs bad. Personally I couldn’t vote for Trump. I thought Obama was a great speaker but didn’t back it up enough. |
Why shouldn't it be a debate about "good moral character" if that means treating other people decently and equally, looking for peaceful solutions rather than being confrontational, and positively seeking green options for the long-term sustainability of our planet?
Pursuing those ends would also feed into healthily growing the economy, so wouldn't just be nice fluffy "pie in the sky" ideals. | |
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| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 08:41 - Jun 5 with 1470 views | Herbivore |
| Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 22:34 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Again your nit picking parts of my post for your agenda. I’m am recognizing that I think the economy has been strong under him by providing multiple points to back it up. Anything positive in the economy seems to be countered with worldwide economic conditions and the last administration because that’s how political debate works when someone has such a strong view of dislike of an individual. I fail to see the brink of a recession with the continued economic growth as measured by GDP.
Why can’t I agree with some thing’s he done and be appalled by others?
In regards to the economy it’s all a bit of a depressing moot point now anyway. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 22:34]
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What specifically has Trump done to boost economic growth in your opinion? Given the global nature of economics it is fair to point out that when economies everywhere are growing it's not necessarily something that warrants huge praise for a national leader. I'd be interested to know what Trump has done specifically that has aided the economy and how it has done so. [Post edited 5 Jun 2020 8:49]
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