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Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 06:52 - Jun 4 by bluelagos
Just to share a conversation with a Californian I know, used to live in London. Texan by birth, republican all his life (I took huge pleasure taking his money on Obama getting reelected)
Believes in the right to bare arms and the death penalty as they deter murders as seen in Texas having a lower murder rate than UK (I took his money on that one too)
Anyhow, so a full on red neck but refused to vote for DT. When I asked why as I thought he was a republican, he replied he is. But that DT isn't, that DT stole their nomination. Sample of one, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear it.
Perhaps his belief in the right to bare arms, goes some way to explaining his red neck? (Please excuse me if this weak joke has been done already)
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 08:59 - Jun 4 by BrixtonBlue
When I said news I meant BBC. Surprised it's not even a story on there, unless it's tucked away somewhere I haven't spotted it.
The Madeleine McCann story seems to be dominating the front pages of most news outlets. And with all due respect to that poor kid, it’s a bizarre decision.
Especially as there is also very little on the violence in London last night.
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 08:59 - Jun 4 by BrixtonBlue
When I said news I meant BBC. Surprised it's not even a story on there, unless it's tucked away somewhere I haven't spotted it.
I don’t think he said any controversial enough to get a headline. If he came out and called Trump a w@nker then he probably would have done. But you know Madeline McCann will Be the headlines now
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 09:06 - Jun 4 by GlasgowBlue
The Madeleine McCann story seems to be dominating the front pages of most news outlets. And with all due respect to that poor kid, it’s a bizarre decision.
Especially as there is also very little on the violence in London last night.
I'm in London and didn't know there was any violence last night!
I agree the Madeleine McCann story is a bit weird as the headline after 13 years... and they're not giving the suspect's name or picture so there's not a huge amount there.
Internationally these calm and uncontroversial words have been overtaken by the comments by James Mattis, which I guess you did see when you looked on the BBC website...
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 08:04 - Jun 4 by Darth_Koont
Good post.
Re: giving weight to opinions. In your defence, I do think it's difficult to find reliable sources of opinion and information nowadays. They're there but increasingly hard to see the wood for the trees.
I read a fair bit on all sides and one thing I've found is it's increasingly important to read the About section and the Wikipedia entry for sources that are otherwise interesting, and especially the ones you keep seeing or coming back to yourself. At some point you have to know who or what is behind the information and opinion, and specifically who might be paying for it. This might give some extra insight into why a scientist is promoting something or why a political commentator is attached to a particular think tank. Also: who else is using them as a source? Or saying the same thing independently? Generally, I'd say 99% of stuff is unreliable just on its own evidence.
It's not easy and it definitely takes extra time but it pays off when you start spotting the dangerous and flaky stuff. And beyond that you also get a feeling for the sheer amount of active misinformation and propaganda out there.
One of my most trusted sources now is the Guardian. As long as I stay away from the opinion pages which sometimes still trigger me
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 23:05 - Jun 3 by J2BLUE
I did. Got to own it. When I was younger I spent a lot of time listening to right wing podcasts. That sounds worse than it was...I only listened when they were talking about economics. Right wing finance people are pretty much all part of the Austrian school and the difference interested me. Looking back I think it brainwashed me to a large extent. I never believed the vast majority of the ridiculous conspiracies but I guess it starts to sink in subconsciously. Clinton is a real target of their hate for some reason.
I also read sites like Zero Hedge, Daily Reckoning, economic collapse blog etc which wasn't a great idea. They all attack the mainstream media constantly so in time you go to that less and less and go to the 'alternative media' more and more.
I stopped listening/reading that content about three years ago and 'tuned in' again to more mainstream media. A good decision and since i've got three things right in my opinion. Labour, labour again and now Biden. That's practically a streak...
Which brings me on to something else I was wrong about. Giving all these pr1cks an equal platform.
Kudos to you J2.
'Deradicalising' people who have fallen under the Trump/Brexit spell is something I've wondered how we do for some time. You obviously worked it out yourself, but how do you think other people can be persuaded that they may have taken a wrong turn?
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Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 12:34 - Jun 4 with 3627 views
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 12:17 - Jun 4 by J2BLUE
One of my most trusted sources now is the Guardian. As long as I stay away from the opinion pages which sometimes still trigger me
That's the big drawback with the Guardian. They cover a lot of subjects that a lot of other media only dips into but there's been way too much opinion. Probably in no small way related to their need for advertising revenue and clicks but often gets much too clickbaity.
I think they've also been remarkably undetailed and partisan when covering the Labour party from an almost uniform Labour right-wing perspective. I know client journalism is an issue throughout media but they've become harnessed to the Labour of the Establishment when there's literally a world of genuine social democracy and socialism beyond that.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 12:59 - Jun 4 with 3586 views
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 12:30 - Jun 4 by Clapham_Junction
Kudos to you J2.
'Deradicalising' people who have fallen under the Trump/Brexit spell is something I've wondered how we do for some time. You obviously worked it out yourself, but how do you think other people can be persuaded that they may have taken a wrong turn?
Get out of the echo chamber. It reminds me of flat earthers. You would think it would be fairly easy to convince them that the earth isn't flat but they process each new piece of information by going to their echo chamber where the evidence is 'debunked' through a series of lies, stupidity and brainwashing. I was watching a youtube video on the (former) largest swimming pool in the world. One of the comments was about how that pool could exist when water is supposed to curve around the earth. On Youtube that standalone comment looks ridiculous. If you believe this rubbish and go on a forum dedicated to the subject i'm sure it would get many up votes and pats on the back. Anything which advances the conspiracy is seen as positive.
It reminds me of when I was younger and started a low carb diet and did very well. I was on loads of forums, reading at least three low carb books a week, listening to podcasts and all sorts of other crap. That combined with my positive experience meant I swallowed every word of it. Low carb was the only way to lose weight. Any other way and you'd lose all your muscle. I refused to believe any other method could work anywhere near as well. I met a nice girl and something could have happened but we started arguing because she dared suggest the 130g+ of fat I was eating a day wasn't healthy. What the hell did she know, eating her fattening wholegrain rice?
What eventually broke my low carb obsession was working opposite a sandwich kiosk. Each day I would see thin people queue up for a lunch of a white bread sandwich, crisps, a chocolate bar and a full sugar soft drink. I sat there adding up the carbs in such a lunch (100g+) and wondering why their evil insulin wasn't making them fat. If they are like that at lunch time surely the rest of their diet would have been just as high in carbs? I sat there for hours and hours in the quiet times just watching and eventually the evidence is too much to ignore. So I went looking for answers and found more moderate information (Lyle McDonald, James Krieger, Precision Nutrition etc). It's a slow process undoing the brainwashing. Even though what they said made perfect sense I still felt uneasy about abandoning low carb and tried several times to go back to doing it but without that 100% total belief that it was the 'One True Method' I couldn't stick to it. I continued reading more moderate sources and left the low carb echo chambers.
To answer your question (finally) it takes a long time. Repetition of undeniable evidence. You won't convince anyone in a day or a week. You might in a year if you have the energy.
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 18:28 - Jun 3 by Shawsey
Did he actually change the inequality while in power? Did he change the gun laws like he promised? Great speaker, very charismatic, but did he address the real issues while in power?
If he had the power of office AND the house, he would have made massive changes.
The “Trumpite” types used to vote against everything he put forward that would have made the country more safe and equal.
For the first time in a LONG time the White House had a blackout and the POTUS was moved to the underground bunker!!... speaks volumes of how Trump have created more division than ever.
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 13:01 - Jun 4 by JoHnNnY
If he had the power of office AND the house, he would have made massive changes.
The “Trumpite” types used to vote against everything he put forward that would have made the country more safe and equal.
For the first time in a LONG time the White House had a blackout and the POTUS was moved to the underground bunker!!... speaks volumes of how Trump have created more division than ever.
Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic. That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more.
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:25 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic. That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:27]
Of course you could also say that Trump has done little for the economy other than take credit for the strong economy Obama left him, all the while handing out massive tax breaks to the super rich. I suppose the bar is so low with him that we should credit him for not wrecking it at least (until now).
Not sure what Obama could do about Mitch McConnell blocking everything in the senate really either. But that's the American political system I guess.
I'd also be interested to know if the immigration groups would like to swap back to Obama from Trump given a choice. It's not like Obama oversaw the whole small children being locked in cages and left to die business.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:37]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 12:59 - Jun 4 by J2BLUE
Get out of the echo chamber. It reminds me of flat earthers. You would think it would be fairly easy to convince them that the earth isn't flat but they process each new piece of information by going to their echo chamber where the evidence is 'debunked' through a series of lies, stupidity and brainwashing. I was watching a youtube video on the (former) largest swimming pool in the world. One of the comments was about how that pool could exist when water is supposed to curve around the earth. On Youtube that standalone comment looks ridiculous. If you believe this rubbish and go on a forum dedicated to the subject i'm sure it would get many up votes and pats on the back. Anything which advances the conspiracy is seen as positive.
It reminds me of when I was younger and started a low carb diet and did very well. I was on loads of forums, reading at least three low carb books a week, listening to podcasts and all sorts of other crap. That combined with my positive experience meant I swallowed every word of it. Low carb was the only way to lose weight. Any other way and you'd lose all your muscle. I refused to believe any other method could work anywhere near as well. I met a nice girl and something could have happened but we started arguing because she dared suggest the 130g+ of fat I was eating a day wasn't healthy. What the hell did she know, eating her fattening wholegrain rice?
What eventually broke my low carb obsession was working opposite a sandwich kiosk. Each day I would see thin people queue up for a lunch of a white bread sandwich, crisps, a chocolate bar and a full sugar soft drink. I sat there adding up the carbs in such a lunch (100g+) and wondering why their evil insulin wasn't making them fat. If they are like that at lunch time surely the rest of their diet would have been just as high in carbs? I sat there for hours and hours in the quiet times just watching and eventually the evidence is too much to ignore. So I went looking for answers and found more moderate information (Lyle McDonald, James Krieger, Precision Nutrition etc). It's a slow process undoing the brainwashing. Even though what they said made perfect sense I still felt uneasy about abandoning low carb and tried several times to go back to doing it but without that 100% total belief that it was the 'One True Method' I couldn't stick to it. I continued reading more moderate sources and left the low carb echo chambers.
To answer your question (finally) it takes a long time. Repetition of undeniable evidence. You won't convince anyone in a day or a week. You might in a year if you have the energy.
Is that a very long winded way of saying that rather than engaging with people that have a difference of opinion and debating with them it’s all about getting someone “to see the light” and educating them that your beliefs are actually correct and you were right all along.
Who says the left are self righteous?!
Did I read above you stay listening to a podcast on from someone right of centre sounds bad? Why exactly, is it because it doesn’t fit the TWTD consensus? Surely everyone can read and listen to all kinds of media on all sides and make their own minds up?
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:25 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic. That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:27]
'Here's the appeasment':
"Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic."
'And here's what I really think':
"That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more."
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:25 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic. That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:27]
That's the point i was trying to get across last night. He's no Messiah himself and all politicians should be held to account for their failings. That doesn't suit some on here though i guess.
For what it's worth i also think Trump is a nothing but a nasty piece of work. Criticise anyone on the left of centre though and you get crap like. "BUT LABOUR THOUGH." Pathetic really.
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Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:44 - Jun 4 with 3413 views
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:40 - Jun 4 by eastangliaisblue
That's the point i was trying to get across last night. He's no Messiah himself and all politicians should be held to account for their failings. That doesn't suit some on here though i guess.
For what it's worth i also think Trump is a nothing but a nasty piece of work. Criticise anyone on the left of centre though and you get crap like. "BUT LABOUR THOUGH." Pathetic really.
If you think that, then you have missed the point of every single post pointing this out on every single occasion.
In future, take note of the context and make an effort to understand the effort some posters will make to use deflection.
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:36 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Is that a very long winded way of saying that rather than engaging with people that have a difference of opinion and debating with them it’s all about getting someone “to see the light” and educating them that your beliefs are actually correct and you were right all along.
Who says the left are self righteous?!
Did I read above you stay listening to a podcast on from someone right of centre sounds bad? Why exactly, is it because it doesn’t fit the TWTD consensus? Surely everyone can read and listen to all kinds of media on all sides and make their own minds up?
Mate, it's bad because those on the right have spent the last four years cheerleading for a lying, raping, self-enriching, barely literate, racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, anti semitic, anti-disabled, anti-native American, anti-immigrant, draft dodging, military insulting, misogynistic, Alt Right, corrupt, America betraying, pro Putin, pro Saudi, pro conspiracy theory, cheat on his wife with a porn star while pregnant all round piece of shït fraudster with a confirmed mushroom penis* who has been masquerading as a world leader. There's no debating those people.
Not to put words on J2's mouth, but I'd imagine he meant something along those lines.
*You just know that Obama has a big one.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:49]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:25 - Jun 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Trump has created (more) mass division, he lacks any kind of leadership, he has been a reality TV president and listening to his rhetoric, the last person you want to see it come from us the leader of the free world. In a crisis he looks pathetic. That said his administration has overseen a very strong economy until now and he does point out a lot of hypocrisy on the left in my opinion. A good example is in this thread, surprised so many of you lot like Obama so much actually.
Nick named by many immigration equality groups as, “the deporter in chief”. He killed a lot of innocent civilians abroad with drone strikes around the world. Failed to back up many claims he ran on, including the closing of Guantánamo. Weak on guns in my opinion despite the opposition in the senate he could and should have done more.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:27]
Is this the same Trump and same economy that was pushed to the brink of recession over a pointless trade war?
Keep sipping the Kool Aid.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:45 - Jun 4 by footers
Is this the same Trump and same economy that was pushed to the brink of recession over a pointless trade war?
Keep sipping the Kool Aid.
But his birth certificate
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Obama to address the USA across all networks tonight on 21:31 - Jun 4 by SpruceMoose
Of course you could also say that Trump has done little for the economy other than take credit for the strong economy Obama left him, all the while handing out massive tax breaks to the super rich. I suppose the bar is so low with him that we should credit him for not wrecking it at least (until now).
Not sure what Obama could do about Mitch McConnell blocking everything in the senate really either. But that's the American political system I guess.
I'd also be interested to know if the immigration groups would like to swap back to Obama from Trump given a choice. It's not like Obama oversaw the whole small children being locked in cages and left to die business.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2020 21:37]
It’s the usual way to praise what was left or blame what was left form the previous administration is the way in politics. Trump has been doing it since March with the virus but the economic growth and unemployment levels across the board here have been very good under his guise whether people admit it or not.
On Obama and guns, I thought Sandy Hook might have been the watershed moment, it was not. It is easy to say it’s just Republicans blocking all this but actually the Democrats have been internally squabbling over it for years and if they had more of a collective stance behind it maybe we could have seen some change. He never put forward any measures before being elected nor did he campaign on them. He tried after a few mass shootings during his time in office, so he actually began his gun control push from a position of weakness!
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