| Sir Bob 22:08 - Jun 29 with 4253 views | itfcjoe |
Fair to say his greatest achievement as a manager was winning the UEFA Cup here in 81?
Won titles in Holland and Portugal, but with big clubs.... |  |
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| Sir Bob on 14:19 - Jun 30 with 2174 views | Ryorry |
| Sir Bob on 13:23 - Jun 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
Robson was sacked because he had lost all control of the dressing room and was embarrassing the club.
In just one memorable weekend Bellamy was involved in a violent fracas in Cardiff, Dyer was mysteriously absent from a roasting session in London, despite paying for it, and Bramble was involved in the same incident, then found not to have ever bothered with a driving licence.... all rather a long way from Newcastle.
Quite a good piece by Souness in the ST at the weekend..... Newcastle wanted a lion tamer. |
Long before all that, and while they were riding high in the table, I was up in Newcastle (it would have been for one of our 3 away games there between Nov 2000-2002) - and while filling up at a petrol station, got chatting with a Magpies fan.
Couldn't believe it when he rabbited on about how disappointed they were with their performances/position/whatever - can't remember his exact complaints, but do remember leaving the station feeling baffled & thinking how ridiculous their expectations, and how extraordinarily ungrateful they were!
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/inside-story-sir-bo |  |
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| Sir Bob on 14:37 - Jun 30 with 2155 views | Pique |
| Sir Bob on 13:33 - Jun 30 by davblue |
Ronaldo being talked about in the same category as Messi and C Ronaldo. |
I mean, that’s not really true is it? Even Messi himself has described Ronaldo (the Brazilian version) as the best forward of all time. |  | | |
| Sir Bob on 15:33 - Jun 30 with 2123 views | itfcjoe |
| Sir Bob on 14:37 - Jun 30 by Pique |
I mean, that’s not really true is it? Even Messi himself has described Ronaldo (the Brazilian version) as the best forward of all time. |
FIFA World Player of the Year 3 times
Golden Boot - WC 2002
Golden Ball - WC - 98
He is one of the greats. | |
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| Sir Bob on 16:40 - Jun 30 with 2100 views | Herbivore |
| Sir Bob on 15:33 - Jun 30 by itfcjoe |
FIFA World Player of the Year 3 times
Golden Boot - WC 2002
Golden Ball - WC - 98
He is one of the greats. |
Totally, but I think what the other poster was getting at is that Ronaldo isn't really talked about when people are debating who is the GOAT in the way they that Messi and to a lesser extent CR7 are talked about in that kind of company. Personally I think that's almost entirely down to injuries and longevity as he was an incredible player, but I've not really seen many people ever talk about him as possibly the best of all time. |  |
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| Sir Bob on 19:23 - Jun 30 with 2062 views | davblue |
| Sir Bob on 16:40 - Jun 30 by Herbivore |
Totally, but I think what the other poster was getting at is that Ronaldo isn't really talked about when people are debating who is the GOAT in the way they that Messi and to a lesser extent CR7 are talked about in that kind of company. Personally I think that's almost entirely down to injuries and longevity as he was an incredible player, but I've not really seen many people ever talk about him as possibly the best of all time. |
Correct.
I think he's thought of as in the tier below Messi, C Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona.
But for I juries as I said in my original post we would have been in that company. |  | | |
| Sir Bob on 20:21 - Jun 30 with 2038 views | Herbivore |
| Sir Bob on 19:23 - Jun 30 by davblue |
Correct.
I think he's thought of as in the tier below Messi, C Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona.
But for I juries as I said in my original post we would have been in that company. |
I personally would have CR7 in the same tier as Ronaldo below Messi, Maradona and Pele, but that's just me. He's had a very impressive career and has managed to wring out every last drop from the talent he was given, but I don't see him being on the level of the other three. He's a great goalscorer, but Messi is just as good a goalscorer and does so much more too. If CR7 isn't the best of his generation, and he isn't, he can't really be in the debate for being the best ever. He's just not quite on that level. | |
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| Sir Bob on 05:08 - Jul 1 with 1998 views | textbackup |
| Sir Bob on 13:33 - Jun 30 by davblue |
Ronaldo being talked about in the same category as Messi and C Ronaldo. |
you think that is bad, wait until you hear the names put alongside our greats in the kit promotion video..... |  |
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| Sir Bob on 09:26 - Jul 1 with 1951 views | BryanPlug |
| Sir Bob on 12:21 - Jun 30 by Radlett_blue |
And Newcastle also have a statue of SBR and I hope the current furore might lead to it being pulled down. |
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| Sir Bob on 09:30 - Jul 1 with 1950 views | Libero |
| Sir Bob on 09:26 - Jul 1 by BryanPlug |
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Robson was at Newcastle half a decade mate. |  | | |
| Sir Bob on 09:34 - Jul 1 with 1944 views | BryanPlug |
| Sir Bob on 09:30 - Jul 1 by Libero |
Robson was at Newcastle half a decade mate. |
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| Sir Bob on 09:37 - Jul 1 with 1937 views | Libero |
| Sir Bob on 09:34 - Jul 1 by BryanPlug |
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Not really mate, Robson achieved an incredible feat there when he qualified for the Champions League, he's also a local lad and is revered as one of their own.
You're reaching for a reason to belittle it but really it's perfectly fine that they'd want to honour one of their greatest ever managers with a statue, even if they treated him poorly on the way out. | | | |
| Sir Bob on 09:39 - Jul 1 with 1932 views | davblue |
| Sir Bob on 05:08 - Jul 1 by textbackup |
you think that is bad, wait until you hear the names put alongside our greats in the kit promotion video..... |
I did hear that.
TBH that video made me think we will be back in europe in 3 seasons and that we are back.
Love the blue shorts though. | | | |
| Sir Bob on 12:34 - Jul 1 with 1906 views | itfcjoe |
| Sir Bob on 09:37 - Jul 1 by Libero |
Not really mate, Robson achieved an incredible feat there when he qualified for the Champions League, he's also a local lad and is revered as one of their own.
You're reaching for a reason to belittle it but really it's perfectly fine that they'd want to honour one of their greatest ever managers with a statue, even if they treated him poorly on the way out. |
I think it is a fair point - they don't have a Keegan statue and he achieved more as a manager there, plus a goal filled stint as a player. | |
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| Sir Bob on 12:43 - Jul 1 with 1895 views | vapour_trail |
| Sir Bob on 09:34 - Jul 1 by BryanPlug |
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The campaign for the MM statue starts here.
Agreed, the geordies having the Robson statue a few years after sacking him is a joke. |  |
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| Sir Bob on 12:53 - Jul 1 with 1881 views | Libero |
| Sir Bob on 12:34 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
I think it is a fair point - they don't have a Keegan statue and he achieved more as a manager there, plus a goal filled stint as a player. |
Forgive my ignorance, but was Keegan one of their own? Wasn't aware he was a Newcastle supporter. | | | |
| Sir Bob on 12:59 - Jul 1 with 1871 views | itfcjoe |
| Sir Bob on 12:53 - Jul 1 by Libero |
Forgive my ignorance, but was Keegan one of their own? Wasn't aware he was a Newcastle supporter. |
He wasn't a supporter, but Robson never played for them was just from there.
Just seems KK should have been ahead of SBR in the queue for a statue - acheived more off and on the pitch for them | |
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| Sir Bob on 13:09 - Jul 1 with 1853 views | hoppy |
| Sir Bob on 10:47 - Jun 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
Not at all. Winning the UEFA Cup was very much a consolation prize for the best team in the land by a country mile that season.
His greatest achievement was to keep Town in the top division in his first two full seasons - which when you look at the team... top scorer one season was Viljoen with 6 - four of those being penalties.... despite the Portman Road faithful chanting for his dismissal. |
"the best team in the land by a country mile that season."
You spelt 'Europe' wrongly. |  |
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| Sir Bob on 13:44 - Jul 1 with 1826 views | Herbivore |
| Sir Bob on 12:59 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
He wasn't a supporter, but Robson never played for them was just from there.
Just seems KK should have been ahead of SBR in the queue for a statue - acheived more off and on the pitch for them |
Keegan is still alive, I think that factors into his lack of a statue versus SBR. | |
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| Sir Bob on 13:55 - Jul 1 with 1809 views | Libero |
| Sir Bob on 12:59 - Jul 1 by itfcjoe |
He wasn't a supporter, but Robson never played for them was just from there.
Just seems KK should have been ahead of SBR in the queue for a statue - acheived more off and on the pitch for them |
I see your point, but Keegan did walk away from them... twice! | | | |
| Sir Bob on 14:46 - Jul 1 with 1786 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Sir Bob on 10:39 - Jun 30 by Pique |
I think Ronaldo should be (and is) talked about in the same bracket as Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Between 1996 and 2002 he was probably the best player in the world (along with Zidane), and he was arguably the most complete forward since Pele.
Plus he won the World Cup, which neither Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo have managed. |
Nah, sorry, I can't accept that! Brazilian Ronaldo (BR) is not in the same tier as Christian Ronaldo (CR) and Messi (LM). World class? Yes. But not the top bracket of world class. Not a big enough impact over a long enough period of time.
CR has had a massive impact on his club and international sides. In the Champions League he is the top scorer with 128 in 169 games. LM is second with 114 from 141. BR doesn't even make the top 50. Even midfielders like Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard make the top 50.
Don't get me wrong, he had seasons where he was the best in the world - 97/98 and 01/02.
You highlight BR's international success, when he was the best player in a great Brazilian team. But his club honours are okay for a world class player. A UEFA cup win with inter and 1 league win from his time at Barcelona, Inter and Real Madrid combined. That's nothing compared to CR (5 league wins, 5 champions league wins) and Messi (10 league wins, 4 champions league wins).
Both CR and LM were surrounded by far worse players in their national teams than BR. And CR won Euro 2016 win Nani as the next best player on the pitch. No offence to Nani, but he is no Bebeto, Rivaldo, Dunga, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Aldair or Ronaldinho. A front 3 of Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho in the 2002 World Cup win. Most countries didn't even have one player as good as any of them.
When BR was on form over short periods of time, he was immense. But I feel that he didn't have the same dedication to fitness that CR and LM had and this was compounded by injuries. Most complete? Perhaps. But in many ways, a wasted talent. |  |
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| Sir Bob on 16:40 - Jul 1 with 1756 views | hoppy |
| Sir Bob on 13:55 - Jul 1 by Libero |
I see your point, but Keegan did walk away from them... twice! |
Yeah, but he'd love it to have a statue there, absolutely love it... | |
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| Sir Bob on 22:39 - Jul 1 with 1702 views | Pique |
| Sir Bob on 14:46 - Jul 1 by Kropotkin123 |
Nah, sorry, I can't accept that! Brazilian Ronaldo (BR) is not in the same tier as Christian Ronaldo (CR) and Messi (LM). World class? Yes. But not the top bracket of world class. Not a big enough impact over a long enough period of time.
CR has had a massive impact on his club and international sides. In the Champions League he is the top scorer with 128 in 169 games. LM is second with 114 from 141. BR doesn't even make the top 50. Even midfielders like Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard make the top 50.
Don't get me wrong, he had seasons where he was the best in the world - 97/98 and 01/02.
You highlight BR's international success, when he was the best player in a great Brazilian team. But his club honours are okay for a world class player. A UEFA cup win with inter and 1 league win from his time at Barcelona, Inter and Real Madrid combined. That's nothing compared to CR (5 league wins, 5 champions league wins) and Messi (10 league wins, 4 champions league wins).
Both CR and LM were surrounded by far worse players in their national teams than BR. And CR won Euro 2016 win Nani as the next best player on the pitch. No offence to Nani, but he is no Bebeto, Rivaldo, Dunga, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Aldair or Ronaldinho. A front 3 of Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho in the 2002 World Cup win. Most countries didn't even have one player as good as any of them.
When BR was on form over short periods of time, he was immense. But I feel that he didn't have the same dedication to fitness that CR and LM had and this was compounded by injuries. Most complete? Perhaps. But in many ways, a wasted talent. |
Well, fair play to you for engaging fully in this debate. Couple of wee holes in your argument though...
BR was never ‘the best player in a great Brazilian side’. You’re being a bit sneaky with the players you’ve referenced - Bebeto, Aldair and Dunga were all from the 1994 side, a tournament in which BR didn’t play a single second. He wasn’t even a player in that World Cup side, let alone the best one! And the 2002 side? No way, not for me. It was a team with three great forwards and two great full backs - the rest of the team was distinctly average (by Brazilian standards). The central midfield pairing in the final was Gilberto Silva and Kleberson. The truth is they were the best team in a very poor tournament, but great? Hardly.
It’s true that CR and LM have both been surrounded by inferior players at international level for much of their careers - but a sign of greatness is surely the ability to drag average teams up to a higher level through sheer brilliance. Maradona did that in 1986, with a pretty poor Argentina side (and nearly repeated the trick four years later). CR, as you correctly point out, has also managed it, but it’s interesting you don’t mention LM in the same context - he’s often been marked out of World Cups and has never won one (and possibly never will).
To be honest, you’re probably right - at least at club level, CR and LM will probably be remembered as the better players. I just get a little tired of the cult of ‘LM and CR are the greatest players ever ever ever’ and like to poke it with a stick every now and again. Maradona is the best player of my lifetime, and if you want my honest opinion, LM and CR are certainly better conditioned, better athletes, more dedicated and have managed to play at their peaks for longer - but neither will ever come close to him. Only Pelé and Cruyff will ever do that. Feel free to disagree. | | | |
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