| This will upset some.... on 10:35 - Jul 18 with 1792 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 10:02 - Jul 18 by Libero |
Just for clarity, it was Spruce who mentioned a post that the hampster had made that concerned him.
I responded discussing methods of reporting concern to relevant authorities and the importance of doing so, also offered a little bit of my own personal experience of dealing with concerning behaviours. [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 10:14]
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That's a fair correction.
Sorry if I was misleading. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 10:49 - Jul 18 with 1766 views | midastouch |
| This will upset some.... on 14:09 - Jul 16 by hampstead_blue |
What is your point?
She is guilty and bang to rights. Sorry, but I've been toe to toe with terrorists and can tell you they deserve nothing. Cowards who hide behind the law when they get their backsides handed to them.
If they, like us, fought under International Law then they could rightfully ask to be treated under the Geneva Convention. However, they are cowards and the most vile murderers.
She gave sucker to those carrying out crimes against humanity. She is equally culpable as those who murdered women and children. |
When faced with an enemy with far superior firepower, then guerrilla warfare becomes one of the few available options for a vastly outgunned enemy wanting to demonstrate acts of resistance and defiance. The British did it time and time again in WW2 with commando style raids, particularly during the earlier war years when there was little other option in order to take any semblance of fight to the Germans in occupied France or Norway etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_guerrilla_warfare
As copied from the above link. Â
General and strategist Sun Tzu, in his The Art of War (6th century BC), was one of the first proponents of the use of guerrilla warfare. The earliest description of guerrilla warfare is an alleged battle between Emperor Huang and the Myan people (Miao) in China. Guerrilla warfare was not unique to China; nomadic and migratory tribes such as the Scythians, Goths, Vandals, and Huns used elements of guerrilla warfare to fight the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, and Alexander the Great.
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus, widely regarded as the "father of guerrilla warfare" of his time, devised the Fabian strategy which was used to great effect against Hannibal Barca's army.
Guerrilla warfare was also a common strategy of the various Celtic, Germanic and African tribes that the Romans faced through their history.
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I actually think it's far more cowardly to call in an air or drone strike, at the first sign of trouble, rather than getting up close and personal with the enemy. Â Are you comfortable with the use of drone strikes hitting wedding parties (trying to take out an insurgent but often only resulting in killing innocent bystanders) and thus perpetuating a whole new generation of hate? Â
I sometimes think we should be dropping PS4s and widescreen TVs rather than bombs, wouldn't that be a better way of winning hearts and minds? Â It would be a hell of a lot cheaper too! Â
Watch parts 2 and 3 of this, it really does bring home the folly of war for all sides involved. Â
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kxws [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 10:50]
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| This will upset some.... on 11:20 - Jul 18 with 1698 views | midastouch |
| This will upset some.... on 10:49 - Jul 18 by midastouch |
When faced with an enemy with far superior firepower, then guerrilla warfare becomes one of the few available options for a vastly outgunned enemy wanting to demonstrate acts of resistance and defiance. The British did it time and time again in WW2 with commando style raids, particularly during the earlier war years when there was little other option in order to take any semblance of fight to the Germans in occupied France or Norway etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_guerrilla_warfare
As copied from the above link. Â
General and strategist Sun Tzu, in his The Art of War (6th century BC), was one of the first proponents of the use of guerrilla warfare. The earliest description of guerrilla warfare is an alleged battle between Emperor Huang and the Myan people (Miao) in China. Guerrilla warfare was not unique to China; nomadic and migratory tribes such as the Scythians, Goths, Vandals, and Huns used elements of guerrilla warfare to fight the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, and Alexander the Great.
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus, widely regarded as the "father of guerrilla warfare" of his time, devised the Fabian strategy which was used to great effect against Hannibal Barca's army.
Guerrilla warfare was also a common strategy of the various Celtic, Germanic and African tribes that the Romans faced through their history.
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I actually think it's far more cowardly to call in an air or drone strike, at the first sign of trouble, rather than getting up close and personal with the enemy. Â Are you comfortable with the use of drone strikes hitting wedding parties (trying to take out an insurgent but often only resulting in killing innocent bystanders) and thus perpetuating a whole new generation of hate? Â
I sometimes think we should be dropping PS4s and widescreen TVs rather than bombs, wouldn't that be a better way of winning hearts and minds? Â It would be a hell of a lot cheaper too! Â
Watch parts 2 and 3 of this, it really does bring home the folly of war for all sides involved. Â
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kxws [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 10:50]
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And also found this online:
"A “double-tap” drone strike involves bombing a target, waiting a period of five to twenty minutes, often during which first responders arrive, and then bombing the target a second or even third time. Note argues that such attacks, by virtue of their indiscriminate nature, are likely serious violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, which prohibits targeting civilians, the wounded, or those placed hors de combat. Thus, such attacks are likely war crimes under international law and under the War Crimes Act of 1996, a U.S. law that criminalizes carrying out, or ordering to be carried out, grave breaches of Common Article 3." | |
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| This will upset some.... on 11:36 - Jul 18 with 1670 views | midastouch |
| This will upset some.... on 11:20 - Jul 18 by midastouch |
And also found this online:
"A “double-tap” drone strike involves bombing a target, waiting a period of five to twenty minutes, often during which first responders arrive, and then bombing the target a second or even third time. Note argues that such attacks, by virtue of their indiscriminate nature, are likely serious violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, which prohibits targeting civilians, the wounded, or those placed hors de combat. Thus, such attacks are likely war crimes under international law and under the War Crimes Act of 1996, a U.S. law that criminalizes carrying out, or ordering to be carried out, grave breaches of Common Article 3." |
Apologies if I've veered away from the main thread here but I just took exception to the Geneva Convention argument as we fight just as ugly and dirty when it suits!
And where did this "toe to toe" fighting you speak of take place? In our country or in their country? | |
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| This will upset some.... on 11:41 - Jul 18 with 1642 views | footers |
| This will upset some.... on 11:36 - Jul 18 by midastouch |
Apologies if I've veered away from the main thread here but I just took exception to the Geneva Convention argument as we fight just as ugly and dirty when it suits!
And where did this "toe to toe" fighting you speak of take place? In our country or in their country? |
"And where did this "toe to toe" fighting you speak of take place? In our country or in their country?"
A bit of both... Northern Ireland.
And yes, you're quite right that we're just as underhanded as terrorists and have been for a long time. Only now we tend to gloss over that by hiring PMCs to do the proper nasty stuff. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 11:47 - Jul 18 with 1634 views | Seablu |
| This will upset some.... on 19:16 - Jul 17 by Herbivore |
Genuinely mental. |
He’s going to end up hiding in a hedge at the bottom of someone’s garden, covered in boot polish with his night vision goggles & a hunting knife clamped between his teeth.
Bloke’s a batsh*t crazy loon. |  | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:22 - Jul 18 with 1595 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 20:41 - Jul 17 by 26_Paz |
Interesting point mate but I don’t believe whole communities are engaged grooming to religious extremism, if they were it would be far more prevalent. It’s a few crazies on the internet getting into those who have already developed the seeds of hatred |
'grooming to religious extremism,'
All religion is grooming, it has no place in a civilised society, none of it. |  | | |
| This will upset some.... on 13:35 - Jul 18 with 1551 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 12:22 - Jul 18 by GaryCooper |
'grooming to religious extremism,'
All religion is grooming, it has no place in a civilised society, none of it. |
But you could argue that banning religious freedom has no place in a civilised society either. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 16:06 - Jul 18 with 1482 views | bluelagos |
| This will upset some.... on 19:42 - Jul 17 by Herbivore |
I don't think anyone will pile on you for trying to ubfrtstand, Glassers, and fair play to you for at least giving it a go. What I would say is that you are missing a lot of nuance and a lot of the similarities in how grooming works in different contexts.
I'd also throw criminal exploitation into the mix as that involves quite similar grooming to both sexual grooming and radicalising the likes of Shamima Begum. All forms of grooming and exploitation involve targeting kids who are, at best, on the fringes of society. Kids from poor backgrounds, kids who feel marginalised, kids with not much stake in society. That's partly why girls and boys in residential or foster care over over represented in the groups subject to exploitation.
They start off by making the young person feel special, they show them a different world, one where they feel valued and important. That might be through giving them gifts, making them promises, or just being nice to them (something many of them aren't used to). That's how they hook them in initially, make them feel loved andike they belong for a change.
Once they've got their claws in, that's where things change a bit. Sure there's still some degree of feeling belonging but they start to create dependency as well. That usually involves starting to distance and alienate the young person from family and friends, people that might be able to persuade them away. It sometimes involves getting them hooked on drugs or alcohol. After a while, once you've got them having sex with people or selling drugs, or moving to Syria in the more extreme case, that's when you see threats and violence used to coerce people to stay in that life. They get trapped. Often they'll convince themselves this is the only possible life for them or the life they deserve.
The mechanisms are similar in all of the cases. And it's not like Shamima was groomed to go and behead people, she was groomed to go and start a new life in what would have been sold to her as an Islamist paradise. Essentially they wanted to use her the same way grooming gangs use people over here, for a particular purpose that furthers their own ends. She was mainly being a wife and trying to be a mother.
People point out the lack of remorse and that she talks about seeing horrific things seemingly with no emotion. How do you think here adolescent brain dealt with seeing these horrors? One way is to dissociate from it, to normalise it. Make it feel like it's not a big deal. How else would you cope with seeing that stuff at 15/16? There is also an element of Stockholm syndrome; victims of abuse often talk about their ambivalence towards their abuser and that they still love them to an extent. It's pretty common and why it can be hard to get convictions at times. The bonds stay strong and take time to be undone. That is often the case whoever has groomed you and whatever life they have groomed you into. |
Very insightful, thanks Herbs.
I'd recommend "The Islamist" by Ed Husain for anyone wanting further insights. He explains how he was radicalised over a period of time. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 21:38 - Jul 18 with 1421 views | Libero |
| This will upset some.... on 10:35 - Jul 18 by jeera |
That's a fair correction.
Sorry if I was misleading. |
I’m p1ssed, I don’t care. xoxo
Edit: Morning after the night before, cheers buh! [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 6:53]
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| This will upset some.... on 11:52 - Jul 19 with 1317 views | hampstead_blue |
| This will upset some.... on 10:49 - Jul 18 by midastouch |
When faced with an enemy with far superior firepower, then guerrilla warfare becomes one of the few available options for a vastly outgunned enemy wanting to demonstrate acts of resistance and defiance. The British did it time and time again in WW2 with commando style raids, particularly during the earlier war years when there was little other option in order to take any semblance of fight to the Germans in occupied France or Norway etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_guerrilla_warfare
As copied from the above link. Â
General and strategist Sun Tzu, in his The Art of War (6th century BC), was one of the first proponents of the use of guerrilla warfare. The earliest description of guerrilla warfare is an alleged battle between Emperor Huang and the Myan people (Miao) in China. Guerrilla warfare was not unique to China; nomadic and migratory tribes such as the Scythians, Goths, Vandals, and Huns used elements of guerrilla warfare to fight the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, and Alexander the Great.
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus, widely regarded as the "father of guerrilla warfare" of his time, devised the Fabian strategy which was used to great effect against Hannibal Barca's army.
Guerrilla warfare was also a common strategy of the various Celtic, Germanic and African tribes that the Romans faced through their history.
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I actually think it's far more cowardly to call in an air or drone strike, at the first sign of trouble, rather than getting up close and personal with the enemy. Â Are you comfortable with the use of drone strikes hitting wedding parties (trying to take out an insurgent but often only resulting in killing innocent bystanders) and thus perpetuating a whole new generation of hate? Â
I sometimes think we should be dropping PS4s and widescreen TVs rather than bombs, wouldn't that be a better way of winning hearts and minds? Â It would be a hell of a lot cheaper too! Â
Watch parts 2 and 3 of this, it really does bring home the folly of war for all sides involved. Â
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kxws [Post edited 18 Jul 2020 10:50]
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You are correct in the context you put.
However like many here you have omitted the detail as tempted by the headline.
Soldiers engage under what are called "Rules of Engagement". In the UK in the 90's it used to be a brown and green card you had to carry whilst armed, Northern Ireland something very similar.
That is your legal framework and trust me it is incredibly tight. It's also designed to put innocent lives first.
ISIS, Saddam (human shields), the IRA and others use this against the soldiers. They stand behind civilians and shoot knowing you cannot shoot back.
ISIS and the like do not recognise the rule of law when fighting.
How many prisoners were given their rights under the Geneva Convention?
You mention a drone. That pilot and command chain is under the rule of law. They can only engage with
I'll leave it there, but please take in consideration the rules of engagement we follow and they do not. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| This will upset some.... on 12:11 - Jul 19 with 1289 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 13:35 - Jul 18 by Herbivore |
But you could argue that banning religious freedom has no place in a civilised society either. |
You could, one could also as a country stop treating religious leaders with deference, stop it being pandered to by our supposed elected leaders, remove it/them from any positions of influence. | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:16 - Jul 19 with 1269 views | footers |
| This will upset some.... on 12:11 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
You could, one could also as a country stop treating religious leaders with deference, stop it being pandered to by our supposed elected leaders, remove it/them from any positions of influence. |
That presumably includes HM The Queen. Thought you hated the 'RADS', gazza. But now you seem to have quite a lot in common with them! | |
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| This will upset some.... on 12:23 - Jul 19 with 1258 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:16 - Jul 19 by footers |
That presumably includes HM The Queen. Thought you hated the 'RADS', gazza. But now you seem to have quite a lot in common with them! |
House. | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:25 - Jul 19 with 1252 views | footers |
| This will upset some.... on 12:23 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
House. |
Huh? I thought as head of the C of E you'd want her removed from her unelected position of power over you?
Welcome to the right side of history, mate. Was only a matter of time :) | |
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| This will upset some.... on 12:28 - Jul 19 with 1246 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 12:11 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
You could, one could also as a country stop treating religious leaders with deference, stop it being pandered to by our supposed elected leaders, remove it/them from any positions of influence. |
Sounds a lot like persecution on the grounds of religious belief, mate. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 12:28 - Jul 19 with 1245 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:25 - Jul 19 by footers |
Huh? I thought as head of the C of E you'd want her removed from her unelected position of power over you?
Welcome to the right side of history, mate. Was only a matter of time :) |
Agreed, as for the 'right side of history' blimey, pretentious? Moi? | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:29 - Jul 19 with 1238 views | footers |
| This will upset some.... on 12:28 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
Agreed, as for the 'right side of history' blimey, pretentious? Moi? |
It may be slightly pretentious, but oh well, what can one do. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 12:30 - Jul 19 with 1237 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:28 - Jul 19 by Herbivore |
Sounds a lot like persecution on the grounds of religious belief, mate. |
Perhaps the definition of persecution has changed, I am pretty certain it has not though. | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:31 - Jul 19 with 1229 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:29 - Jul 19 by footers |
It may be slightly pretentious, but oh well, what can one do. |
Perhaps dismount from their very tall equine? | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:35 - Jul 19 with 1215 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 12:30 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
Perhaps the definition of persecution has changed, I am pretty certain it has not though. |
Removing people from positions of influence because of their beliefs sounds a lot like persecuting people on the grounds of their belief, mate. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 12:38 - Jul 19 with 1205 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:35 - Jul 19 by Herbivore |
Removing people from positions of influence because of their beliefs sounds a lot like persecuting people on the grounds of their belief, mate. |
I am a little surprised that you are willing to be governed by those that are guided by a God, either that or you are a tad troll?
I'm off now Sunday school beckons. | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 12:43 - Jul 19 with 1199 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 12:38 - Jul 19 by GaryCooper |
I am a little surprised that you are willing to be governed by those that are guided by a God, either that or you are a tad troll?
I'm off now Sunday school beckons. |
I want to be governed by competent people who have the public's best interests at heart. Whether they believe in God, the tooth fairy or Father Christmas is no real concern of mine. Sadly I've found myself disappointed for a good 10+ years now. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 12:43]
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| This will upset some.... on 17:45 - Jul 19 with 1118 views | jaseitfc2015 |
Undoubtedly it is right she returns and faces trial & justice in britain , she is the responsibility of britain. We are a liberal country & as a liberal i support this. |  | | |
| This will upset some.... on 17:58 - Jul 19 with 1087 views | GaryCooper |
| This will upset some.... on 12:43 - Jul 19 by Herbivore |
I want to be governed by competent people who have the public's best interests at heart. Whether they believe in God, the tooth fairy or Father Christmas is no real concern of mine. Sadly I've found myself disappointed for a good 10+ years now. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 12:43]
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That is hardly profound is it? The problem is there are many world leaders who use 'God' as a power tool or a blame sponge, as always fear is the key to power. | | | |
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