| This will upset some.... on 14:59 - Jul 17 with 731 views | SpruceMoose |
| This will upset some.... on 09:37 - Jul 17 by 26_Paz |
You’re failing to recognise that there’s a big difference between being groomed for sex and being groomed to become a member of ISIS |
Do you have experience of both Paz? Otherwise how would you know?
The rest of us can clearly imagine that there's isn't much difference between the two, but perhaps without direct experience we are missing some of the nuances. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 15:01]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| This will upset some.... on 15:07 - Jul 17 with 707 views | Libero |
| This will upset some.... on 09:37 - Jul 17 by 26_Paz |
You’re failing to recognise that there’s a big difference between being groomed for sex and being groomed to become a member of ISIS |
Why don't you list the differences for us?
It'll be good for a laugh, if nothing else. |  | | |
| This will upset some.... on 15:08 - Jul 17 with 693 views | SpruceMoose |
| This will upset some.... on 15:07 - Jul 17 by Libero |
Why don't you list the differences for us?
It'll be good for a laugh, if nothing else. |
Almost as good and convincing as that list he provided of why Boris isn't a racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic, journalist beating shïtestack, and how he definitely didn't vote for the Conservatives because he loves that they are led by a racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic, journalist beating shïtestack [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 15:11]
| |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| This will upset some.... on 18:23 - Jul 17 with 609 views | noggin |
| This will upset some.... on 09:37 - Jul 17 by 26_Paz |
You’re failing to recognise that there’s a big difference between being groomed for sex and being groomed to become a member of ISIS |
Really? Enlighten us. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 with 568 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This will upset some.... on 15:07 - Jul 17 by Libero |
Why don't you list the differences for us?
It'll be good for a laugh, if nothing else. |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
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| This will upset some.... on 18:54 - Jul 17 with 577 views | footers |
| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
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Your heavily caveated post missed out the key bit about religious extremism.
Aside from that it was great. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 18:56 - Jul 17 with 568 views | Shawsey |
| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
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Think you are spot on with that. |  | | |
| This will upset some.... on 18:59 - Jul 17 with 558 views | SpruceMoose |
| This will upset some.... on 18:56 - Jul 17 by Shawsey |
Think you are spot on with that. |
Apart from the fact that grooming for sex is mainly done by one individual. Grooming for extremism is often done by a whole community. You often can't escape it because you have no one to turn to who isn't involved, and often you don't even realise that it is happening. It's just normal life. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:11 - Jul 17 with 541 views | hampstead_blue |
| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
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Well made point and thanks.
You've got my support.
I've had experience of terrorists.
I'm not in agreement with capital punishment. I do however say that throwing away the key and creating prisons were they cannot mix with others or engage with the outside world is the only other way.
These people so rarely change. I don';t care what you say about giving people a chance. The crimes terrorists commit are based on cowardice.
When they stand-up to a decent Army they get their backsides handed to them on a platter. This is why they remain hidden among us. COWARDS.
We need a prison specially built to take away their liberty. ALl of their liberty. Forget religion, TV, outside contact.
That is a deterrent. Show kids and the weaker minded who are getting tapped-up that if they get caught they are going to a very tough place.
Offer the chance to change up front. Before they get sucked into it and commit a crime. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:14 - Jul 17 with 534 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:11 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Well made point and thanks.
You've got my support.
I've had experience of terrorists.
I'm not in agreement with capital punishment. I do however say that throwing away the key and creating prisons were they cannot mix with others or engage with the outside world is the only other way.
These people so rarely change. I don';t care what you say about giving people a chance. The crimes terrorists commit are based on cowardice.
When they stand-up to a decent Army they get their backsides handed to them on a platter. This is why they remain hidden among us. COWARDS.
We need a prison specially built to take away their liberty. ALl of their liberty. Forget religion, TV, outside contact.
That is a deterrent. Show kids and the weaker minded who are getting tapped-up that if they get caught they are going to a very tough place.
Offer the chance to change up front. Before they get sucked into it and commit a crime. |
Off on one again, with no consideration whatsoever to context.
Reread your own post and then apply your macho narcissism to a 15 year old child.
Legally a child.
Are you even capable of doing that? |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:15 - Jul 17 with 532 views | SpruceMoose |
| This will upset some.... on 19:14 - Jul 17 by jeera |
Off on one again, with no consideration whatsoever to context.
Reread your own post and then apply your macho narcissism to a 15 year old child.
Legally a child.
Are you even capable of doing that? |
He's more Shambo than Rambo. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| This will upset some.... on 19:16 - Jul 17 with 529 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 19:11 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Well made point and thanks.
You've got my support.
I've had experience of terrorists.
I'm not in agreement with capital punishment. I do however say that throwing away the key and creating prisons were they cannot mix with others or engage with the outside world is the only other way.
These people so rarely change. I don';t care what you say about giving people a chance. The crimes terrorists commit are based on cowardice.
When they stand-up to a decent Army they get their backsides handed to them on a platter. This is why they remain hidden among us. COWARDS.
We need a prison specially built to take away their liberty. ALl of their liberty. Forget religion, TV, outside contact.
That is a deterrent. Show kids and the weaker minded who are getting tapped-up that if they get caught they are going to a very tough place.
Offer the chance to change up front. Before they get sucked into it and commit a crime. |
Genuinely mental. |  |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:17 - Jul 17 with 526 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:15 - Jul 17 by SpruceMoose |
He's more Shambo than Rambo. |
It's as though there's no thought process whatsoever, none.
It's just pile in with a load of words ranting this and that...
It's tiring just looking at it. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:17 - Jul 17 with 526 views | SpruceMoose |
| This will upset some.... on 19:16 - Jul 17 by Herbivore |
Genuinely mental. |
Needs to be on a watch list pronto. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| This will upset some.... on 19:24 - Jul 17 with 500 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:17 - Jul 17 by SpruceMoose |
Needs to be on a watch list pronto. |
Honestly when I saw Libs post on this subject earlier I thought maybe this guy needs reporting to the authorities.
This isn't normal. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:41 - Jul 17 with 479 views | hampstead_blue |
| This will upset some.... on 19:15 - Jul 17 by SpruceMoose |
He's more Shambo than Rambo. |
Is that it?
Come on, I've been called worse by young kids in Northern Ireland.
Edit; Someone said she is a child.....Nope. she's 21 in August and nearly 16 when she left UK [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 19:47]
| |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
| This will upset some.... on 19:42 - Jul 17 with 476 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
|
I don't think anyone will pile on you for trying to ubfrtstand, Glassers, and fair play to you for at least giving it a go. What I would say is that you are missing a lot of nuance and a lot of the similarities in how grooming works in different contexts.
I'd also throw criminal exploitation into the mix as that involves quite similar grooming to both sexual grooming and radicalising the likes of Shamima Begum. All forms of grooming and exploitation involve targeting kids who are, at best, on the fringes of society. Kids from poor backgrounds, kids who feel marginalised, kids with not much stake in society. That's partly why girls and boys in residential or foster care over over represented in the groups subject to exploitation.
They start off by making the young person feel special, they show them a different world, one where they feel valued and important. That might be through giving them gifts, making them promises, or just being nice to them (something many of them aren't used to). That's how they hook them in initially, make them feel loved andike they belong for a change.
Once they've got their claws in, that's where things change a bit. Sure there's still some degree of feeling belonging but they start to create dependency as well. That usually involves starting to distance and alienate the young person from family and friends, people that might be able to persuade them away. It sometimes involves getting them hooked on drugs or alcohol. After a while, once you've got them having sex with people or selling drugs, or moving to Syria in the more extreme case, that's when you see threats and violence used to coerce people to stay in that life. They get trapped. Often they'll convince themselves this is the only possible life for them or the life they deserve.
The mechanisms are similar in all of the cases. And it's not like Shamima was groomed to go and behead people, she was groomed to go and start a new life in what would have been sold to her as an Islamist paradise. Essentially they wanted to use her the same way grooming gangs use people over here, for a particular purpose that furthers their own ends. She was mainly being a wife and trying to be a mother.
People point out the lack of remorse and that she talks about seeing horrific things seemingly with no emotion. How do you think here adolescent brain dealt with seeing these horrors? One way is to dissociate from it, to normalise it. Make it feel like it's not a big deal. How else would you cope with seeing that stuff at 15/16? There is also an element of Stockholm syndrome; victims of abuse often talk about their ambivalence towards their abuser and that they still love them to an extent. It's pretty common and why it can be hard to get convictions at times. The bonds stay strong and take time to be undone. That is often the case whoever has groomed you and whatever life they have groomed you into. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:44 - Jul 17 with 471 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 18:52 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok. I’m going to attempt to answer this. And I know that this is going to be like walking through a minefield and I need to treat this as sensitively as possible. I just hope that my post won’t be piled on and will be taken as an attempt to have a mature and respectful discussion on the subject.
I’m also posting as somebody who has raised two girls of 17 and a girl who is 13. I’m no expert in grooming and this is only an opinion. I’m not claiming to be an expert or that my opinion is correct.
Let’s also throw in the caveat that I’m not claiming that the victims of grooming are part of some game of top trumps or that the victims of grooming by paedophiles are in any way deserving of their abuse. And I’m not giving a free pass to the scumbags who use a position of power to groom teenage girls for sexual purposes. I’d cut their bollox off for their crimes.
Sooooooo. 15 year old girls are aware of sex. Many 15 year old girls will have had sex. They will have friends who have had sex. They will discuss sex with each other.
Sex is part of a normal loving relationship and I understand that some older men who would groom a 15 year old will have manipulated them Over a period of time into believing that they are loved.
Most 15 year old girls will be aware that Beheading and decapitating people, setting fire to people and crucifying people is not normal behaviour. They know it’s not only wrong but it’s abhorrent.
So my view is that it would be harder to groom somebody into joining IS than entering into a sexual relationship with an older man.
Again. Feel free to disagree. Ad re read my opening paras set out before I gave my opinion.
And yes, I am quite prepared to accept that my opinion may be wrong and those with expertise in the area of grooming can put me right. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 18:56]
|
It's not that what you have said there is wrong, it's just that [in my opinion] it's comparing entirely different scenarios. In isolation.
Religious indoctrination, sexual exploitation.
Now put the two together as one and see what you come up with.
There were men waiting for them the other end, don't forget. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:45 - Jul 17 with 469 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:41 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Is that it?
Come on, I've been called worse by young kids in Northern Ireland.
Edit; Someone said she is a child.....Nope. she's 21 in August and nearly 16 when she left UK [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 19:47]
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You were in NI?
What were you doing there? | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:50 - Jul 17 with 458 views | Shawsey |
| This will upset some.... on 19:45 - Jul 17 by jeera |
You were in NI?
What were you doing there? |
 Fantastic. What are the odds that he says Army? | | | |
| This will upset some.... on 19:51 - Jul 17 with 458 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:41 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Is that it?
Come on, I've been called worse by young kids in Northern Ireland.
Edit; Someone said she is a child.....Nope. she's 21 in August and nearly 16 when she left UK [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 19:47]
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She was 15.
How many times?
Why are you sticking your nose in when you don't even know the basics?
The age now is irrelevant you idiot. You can't try someone at 40 for something they did when they were 10, claiming, "But they're 40 now!"
How can you struggle with this? Make an effort or go away. [Post edited 17 Jul 2020 19:52]
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| This will upset some.... on 19:53 - Jul 17 with 450 views | hampstead_blue |
| This will upset some.... on 19:24 - Jul 17 by jeera |
Honestly when I saw Libs post on this subject earlier I thought maybe this guy needs reporting to the authorities.
This isn't normal. |
Nope. You missed again.
You've got to try harder. Why don't you all sit down together, distanced of course, and come-up with something better.
I'm sure that you're collective whit and intelligence is off the scale and in a nano second I will be a gibbering wreck. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
| This will upset some.... on 19:53 - Jul 17 with 451 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:50 - Jul 17 by Shawsey |
Fantastic. What are the odds that he says Army? |
No, he'd have mentioned it by now. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:54 - Jul 17 with 449 views | jeera |
| This will upset some.... on 19:53 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Nope. You missed again.
You've got to try harder. Why don't you all sit down together, distanced of course, and come-up with something better.
I'm sure that you're collective whit and intelligence is off the scale and in a nano second I will be a gibbering wreck. |
You're not answering a thing.
You're in some bubble talking to yourself, and because of that, you are the only fecker who can't see it. | |
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| This will upset some.... on 19:59 - Jul 17 with 432 views | Herbivore |
| This will upset some.... on 19:53 - Jul 17 by hampstead_blue |
Nope. You missed again.
You've got to try harder. Why don't you all sit down together, distanced of course, and come-up with something better.
I'm sure that you're collective whit and intelligence is off the scale and in a nano second I will be a gibbering wreck. |
It's wit, not whit. You're not bright enough to carry this off. | |
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