| France are having no luck. on 22:15 - Jul 18 with 928 views | eireblue |
| France are having no luck. on 15:40 - Jul 18 by Guthrum |
Continually halted human progress?
Those who pushed for the abolition of slavery and the great social reforms of the 19th century were all involved in organised religion. It was organised religion which preserved and propagated culture and learning during the Middle Ages (not to mention providing the bulk of helath and social care). Catholic Liberation Theology opposed oppressive regimes in Latin America. C of E vicars were among the first supporters of Charles Darwin.
The church vs progress/science narrative is largely the invention of certain enlightenment and 19th century writers and their followers. Often thinking of situations like 18th century Spain and Italy, which were particularly reactionary and did crack down on independent thought. But that doesn't reflect what was happening in other times and places. |
How many atheists existed during those times?
Would it have been possible for a person with no religion to have been in a position of power or learning during the Middle Ages?
Were there non-religious Universities?
Is it, for instance, still true today that there have been no declared atheist American presidents, and not many declared atheists in the US senate or congress.
Therefore, is it almost a tautology to say that science was and learning done via people within organised religions. Since, as the Cathars witnessed, you had to be a member of the correct religion at the correct time, in order to be in a position of learning and/or influence.
How much more would have been accomplished, for instance, with respect to slavery, if one specific religion hadn’t seemed to think it perfectly fine to have slaves.
Would women have achieved equality much more quickly, without certain religions dominating? |  | |  |
| France are having no luck. on 22:35 - Jul 18 with 900 views | monytowbray |
| France are having no luck. on 21:52 - Jul 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The issue is that you do not have the congregations without the organisation.
He seems to be saying all churches must be independent house churches and not organised centrally at all ever.
I am not sure what he thinks that achieves or why he is suggesting it. It sounds very like attempts to push the church underground as in China.
Never mind anyway. As you say, we seem unable to grasp what each other are talking about, he hasn't answered any of my points about what he is trying to stop or how and I have far more important calls on my time at the moment. |
Yes! That is exactly what would be better. Community based religion rather than organised religion.
Organised religion has covered up some evil abuse over the decades through having its roots deep in these communities. |  |
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| France are having no luck. on 06:41 - Jul 19 with 825 views | monytowbray |
| France are having no luck. on 22:35 - Jul 18 by monytowbray |
Yes! That is exactly what would be better. Community based religion rather than organised religion.
Organised religion has covered up some evil abuse over the decades through having its roots deep in these communities. |
Imagine downvoting something but having no response. | |
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| France are having no luck. on 08:32 - Jul 19 with 792 views | pointofblue |
The problem, as with most things in the world today, isn’t the idea of organised religion but the people that run it and their hypocrisy - how the Vatican, for example, can plead for donations and talk about the public giving to charity when it’s calculated wealth invested in banking, insurance, chemicals, steels, construction, real estate and art work is $10bn to $15bn. How children should be protected yet allow evil priests to abuse them for their own sick pleasure and protect them punishment. How they can stand from a pulpit and breach about shedding blood of non-believers to impressionable believers. How religious text is used to judge and harm others for their actions, such as children who were taken from single mothers just because it went against their interpretation of the Bible.
Religion can be a force of good in the world and,for the majority of both preachers and believers, that is what they want. But, like many things, it does feel the leadership has been wrestled away by the rich and power-hungry to mould into an image they want rather than what would be the best. |  |
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| France are having no luck. on 09:43 - Jul 19 with 765 views | Shawsey |
| France are having no luck. on 08:32 - Jul 19 by pointofblue |
The problem, as with most things in the world today, isn’t the idea of organised religion but the people that run it and their hypocrisy - how the Vatican, for example, can plead for donations and talk about the public giving to charity when it’s calculated wealth invested in banking, insurance, chemicals, steels, construction, real estate and art work is $10bn to $15bn. How children should be protected yet allow evil priests to abuse them for their own sick pleasure and protect them punishment. How they can stand from a pulpit and breach about shedding blood of non-believers to impressionable believers. How religious text is used to judge and harm others for their actions, such as children who were taken from single mothers just because it went against their interpretation of the Bible.
Religion can be a force of good in the world and,for the majority of both preachers and believers, that is what they want. But, like many things, it does feel the leadership has been wrestled away by the rich and power-hungry to mould into an image they want rather than what would be the best. |
I started this thread as a Cathedral in France on fire. Nothing more. The 2 of them then took it to somewhere that I didn't want to go. Religion is a personal thing and as with pretty much everything, was different back in the day. I do not see churches as organised religion, just as a place of worship. For some reason, known only to them, they thought to make it about organised religion. When I say I don't want to get involved in that conversation, sudden I am "dumb" and "way out of my depth". The insults I have received from "Callis"?? are beyond me. Why the 2 of them chose to have a go at me is a mystery to me. This was meant to be a thread about how sad for France to suffer another Cathedral fire so soon after Notre Dame. No hidden agenda from me. No need to bring religion and politics into this thread. They simply seem to use this place to try and push their views and thoughts onto others. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 9:50]
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| France are having no luck. on 11:38 - Jul 19 with 723 views | eireblue |
| France are having no luck. on 09:43 - Jul 19 by Shawsey |
I started this thread as a Cathedral in France on fire. Nothing more. The 2 of them then took it to somewhere that I didn't want to go. Religion is a personal thing and as with pretty much everything, was different back in the day. I do not see churches as organised religion, just as a place of worship. For some reason, known only to them, they thought to make it about organised religion. When I say I don't want to get involved in that conversation, sudden I am "dumb" and "way out of my depth". The insults I have received from "Callis"?? are beyond me. Why the 2 of them chose to have a go at me is a mystery to me. This was meant to be a thread about how sad for France to suffer another Cathedral fire so soon after Notre Dame. No hidden agenda from me. No need to bring religion and politics into this thread. They simply seem to use this place to try and push their views and thoughts onto others. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 9:50]
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The lady doth protest too much.
It was your choice to respond to a poster, and ask them questions.
If you wanted to stay on your topic of choice, that is entirely within your power. | | | |
| France are having no luck. on 11:44 - Jul 19 with 718 views | Shawsey |
| France are having no luck. on 11:38 - Jul 19 by eireblue |
The lady doth protest too much.
It was your choice to respond to a poster, and ask them questions.
If you wanted to stay on your topic of choice, that is entirely within your power. |
Thank you. I shall try and steer clear of those 2 in the future. Lesson learnt. | | | |
| France are having no luck. on 11:54 - Jul 19 with 705 views | SpruceMoose |
| France are having no luck. on 11:44 - Jul 19 by Shawsey |
Thank you. I shall try and steer clear of those 2 in the future. Lesson learnt. |
You're trying too hard with this new login. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 11:54]
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| France are having no luck. on 16:00 - Jul 19 with 644 views | hampstead_blue |
| France are having no luck. on 10:57 - Jul 18 by footers |
A sign of the End Times, and that most of you haven't been reading your Bibles as you should.
Still, there's always millions poured into funds like this from the great and good. Less so for more immediate, human problems, but cathedrals look nice and aren't as complex. |
Completely agree.
Sorry for the down.vote, am using my phone! |  |
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Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| France are having no luck. on 08:27 - Jul 20 with 566 views | BryanPlug |
| France are having no luck. on 09:43 - Jul 19 by Shawsey |
I started this thread as a Cathedral in France on fire. Nothing more. The 2 of them then took it to somewhere that I didn't want to go. Religion is a personal thing and as with pretty much everything, was different back in the day. I do not see churches as organised religion, just as a place of worship. For some reason, known only to them, they thought to make it about organised religion. When I say I don't want to get involved in that conversation, sudden I am "dumb" and "way out of my depth". The insults I have received from "Callis"?? are beyond me. Why the 2 of them chose to have a go at me is a mystery to me. This was meant to be a thread about how sad for France to suffer another Cathedral fire so soon after Notre Dame. No hidden agenda from me. No need to bring religion and politics into this thread. They simply seem to use this place to try and push their views and thoughts onto others. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 9:50]
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[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| France are having no luck. on 09:05 - Jul 20 with 542 views | monytowbray |
| France are having no luck. on 08:27 - Jul 20 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
I’m going to start threads about Cricket then moan when people start talking about cricket because I have no opinion on Cricket and don’t care about Cricket.
🤷â€â™‚ï¸ | |
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