| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release 07:37 - Aug 12 with 4689 views | ElderGrizzly |
The Govt really don’t get how Mock Exams work either. Once again a predicted shambles.
Students will still be issued with the calculated grades as these went to schools overnight and they will need to appeal to get Mock results used instead
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:43 - Aug 12 with 1108 views | Herbivore |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:42 - Aug 12 by Keno |
woah!!
does that mean you are the TWTD brainbox? |
Well yeah, obvs. |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:44 - Aug 12 with 1109 views | StokieBlue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:05 - Aug 12 by ElderGrizzly |
You postpone University entrance to January and run exams in October/November.
That was one of the preferred options put forwards anyway |
That's not a solution though, that's moving the problem down the road to a time where they are saying there could be a winter resurgence.
There is no solution that isn't going to upset someone. Anyone who doesn't get the grades they need are going to immediately appeal.
SB |  | | |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:44 - Aug 12 with 1105 views | Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:39 - Aug 12 by lowhouseblue |
in the absence of exams, ranking students within schools seems essential. is there an alternative to that?
how then do you translate that school by school ranking into a distribution of grades nationally that maintains the integrity of the A level system as a whole? if school ranking gives 40+% A*/A they can't all get that if the qualification system is going to remain credible. so how do you avoid statistical moderation? |
Well apparently yeah it’s “statistical modelling” because that’s what they were going to do and ignore all of our work because it was too inconvenient presumably.
What they really wanted to do was just reward the wealthiest schools to be blunt. Their model looked at all of the things which benefit them, without the discussion about educational inequality that has plagued the reforms they made years ago.
The TES published on the 7th https://www.tes.com/news/GCSE-results-2020-teacher-grades-ignored |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:45 - Aug 12 with 1098 views | NthQldITFC |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:23 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
Although, the reason for improvements are down to the massive revision of the exam specifications by Gove. In crude terms the first years of each exam saw some the government enforcing wild variations to grade boundaries to make them “work”.
Once you get used to the content and demands you do get better results. I’ve improved my department’s top end grades every year probably just by virtue of that and the hard work put in to it.
From the manner of the lockdown, the handling of school meals, the briefing of the press before us to this it’s very hard to think that this government is merely anything but contemptible and inept. Williamson seems to make Gove look good. |
I'm very definitely not challenging your authority here, given that you work in the field and clearly know far more about it than I do, but I just can't understand the point of a system that drives up, or at least allows pass percentages and grades to go up every year.
Surely the logical (if silly) conclusion of that is a flatline system where everyone gets A* for everything, and there is no differentiation based on ability. Is it just a tacitly accepted compromise between reality and egos? |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:48 - Aug 12 with 1089 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:04 - Aug 12 by Herbivore |
It's not like they've had 5 months to come up with the best workable solution or anything. |
Having seen what happened in Scotland would you rather they stuck with their original plan and risk the same outcome? |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:50 - Aug 12 with 1086 views | Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:45 - Aug 12 by NthQldITFC |
I'm very definitely not challenging your authority here, given that you work in the field and clearly know far more about it than I do, but I just can't understand the point of a system that drives up, or at least allows pass percentages and grades to go up every year.
Surely the logical (if silly) conclusion of that is a flatline system where everyone gets A* for everything, and there is no differentiation based on ability. Is it just a tacitly accepted compromise between reality and egos? |
No I agree, and I have superiors who don’t understand that some years cohorts are weaker or worse behaved or come from more families who don’t value education or whatever it might be.
You’ll never get that last paragraph happening because it doesn’t favour anyone to do so, also I think people don’t realise just how much they learn the longer they are out of school and what the capabilities of kids aged 5/11/16/18 truly are, good or bad. | |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:57 - Aug 12 with 1065 views | Herbivore |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:48 - Aug 12 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Having seen what happened in Scotland would you rather they stuck with their original plan and risk the same outcome? |
Results in Scotland came out just over a week ago. That still gave them a week to respond rather than leaving it until after they'd sent the results out. And perhaps in 5 months they could have come up with a better system in the first place? I know asking for basic competence from the government is horribly out of fashion, but still. | |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:03 - Aug 12 with 1059 views | lowhouseblue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:44 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
Well apparently yeah it’s “statistical modelling” because that’s what they were going to do and ignore all of our work because it was too inconvenient presumably.
What they really wanted to do was just reward the wealthiest schools to be blunt. Their model looked at all of the things which benefit them, without the discussion about educational inequality that has plagued the reforms they made years ago.
The TES published on the 7th https://www.tes.com/news/GCSE-results-2020-teacher-grades-ignored |
they're not ignoring the school by school ranking, they're putting those rankings into the context of the performance of different schools over long periods. if teacher grades are taken unmoderated you end up with 40+% of grades at the highest level and the integrity of the qualification system is lost. you then have a cohort of students whose grades aren't taken seriously.
i'm not saying that the solution is perfect, but you have to at least recognise that that's the problem we're trying to solve. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:38 - Aug 12 with 1030 views | Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:03 - Aug 12 by lowhouseblue |
they're not ignoring the school by school ranking, they're putting those rankings into the context of the performance of different schools over long periods. if teacher grades are taken unmoderated you end up with 40+% of grades at the highest level and the integrity of the qualification system is lost. you then have a cohort of students whose grades aren't taken seriously.
i'm not saying that the solution is perfect, but you have to at least recognise that that's the problem we're trying to solve. |
From the article "on average 60 per cent of grades will have been calculated using a statistical model, rather than using teacher-assessed grades.
However, in smaller entry subjects, for example, classical Greek, less than 10 per cent of the grades would have been calculated using the statistical model, with most awarded based on teacher assessment."
I'm sure the kids in inner city academies who were worried all summer that they hadn't explained the impact of hubris are relieved.
No one would seriously argue that "teacher grades are taken unmoderated" however what you fail to understand in that assertion is if I had 6 kids getting a 9 and the government had decided that a school like mine, with a cohort of that size should only get 2 kids having 9's then four miss out automatically.
If I was inflating grades, or my school was, and they submitted it, the centre should have been moderated closely and scrutinised which is well within the timescale and power of the authorities. It's a bit like the discussion about cheating furlough or the Eat out scheme.
Schools in the poorest areas also have the most volatile swings in results year to year, using historical averages is incredibly crude and discriminatory. If they've used for example the previous 5 years' results by institution then that can punish these kids because there was a bad Head/management within that cycle too.
If anything what this really should be doing is highlighting how devastating the past few years of underfunding and gimmickry has damaged education in this country. I suspect that the sideshow will make sure that's the last thing which happens. | |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:52 - Aug 12 with 1009 views | longtimefan |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:38 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
From the article "on average 60 per cent of grades will have been calculated using a statistical model, rather than using teacher-assessed grades.
However, in smaller entry subjects, for example, classical Greek, less than 10 per cent of the grades would have been calculated using the statistical model, with most awarded based on teacher assessment."
I'm sure the kids in inner city academies who were worried all summer that they hadn't explained the impact of hubris are relieved.
No one would seriously argue that "teacher grades are taken unmoderated" however what you fail to understand in that assertion is if I had 6 kids getting a 9 and the government had decided that a school like mine, with a cohort of that size should only get 2 kids having 9's then four miss out automatically.
If I was inflating grades, or my school was, and they submitted it, the centre should have been moderated closely and scrutinised which is well within the timescale and power of the authorities. It's a bit like the discussion about cheating furlough or the Eat out scheme.
Schools in the poorest areas also have the most volatile swings in results year to year, using historical averages is incredibly crude and discriminatory. If they've used for example the previous 5 years' results by institution then that can punish these kids because there was a bad Head/management within that cycle too.
If anything what this really should be doing is highlighting how devastating the past few years of underfunding and gimmickry has damaged education in this country. I suspect that the sideshow will make sure that's the last thing which happens. |
“Schools in the poorest areas also have the most volatile swings in results year to year, using historical averages is incredibly crude and discriminatory. If they've used for example the previous 5 years' results by institution then that can punish these kids because there was a bad Head/management within that cycle too”
Isn’t one of the new appeal options based around the fact that if a school can demonstrate differentiation from previous years, then that is a valid appeal route. How the school would do that though is open to question. There obviously needs to be some form of moderation applied as I believe they said on R4 this morning that without it there is a 12% level of grade inflation. |  | | |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:53 - Aug 12 with 1007 views | IpswichKnight |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:35 - Aug 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Teaching in Universities is already rather spread out. It could be done in a more compressed way for a short period.
Again not saying there is a simple answer or a perfect one.
What would have helped of course was the Tory Govt not abolishing coursework from A Levels and making it all based on final exams. The modular system had issues, the linear system is fatally flawed. |
Coursework has not been entirely abolished yet, It's still part of the Geography curriculum, the wife teaches it and had marked along with her colleagues all of her students coursework before the lock down. Most of the marks they submitted to the exam board were based on coursework and the winter term exam paper they set. | | | |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:57 - Aug 12 with 1002 views | lowhouseblue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:38 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
From the article "on average 60 per cent of grades will have been calculated using a statistical model, rather than using teacher-assessed grades.
However, in smaller entry subjects, for example, classical Greek, less than 10 per cent of the grades would have been calculated using the statistical model, with most awarded based on teacher assessment."
I'm sure the kids in inner city academies who were worried all summer that they hadn't explained the impact of hubris are relieved.
No one would seriously argue that "teacher grades are taken unmoderated" however what you fail to understand in that assertion is if I had 6 kids getting a 9 and the government had decided that a school like mine, with a cohort of that size should only get 2 kids having 9's then four miss out automatically.
If I was inflating grades, or my school was, and they submitted it, the centre should have been moderated closely and scrutinised which is well within the timescale and power of the authorities. It's a bit like the discussion about cheating furlough or the Eat out scheme.
Schools in the poorest areas also have the most volatile swings in results year to year, using historical averages is incredibly crude and discriminatory. If they've used for example the previous 5 years' results by institution then that can punish these kids because there was a bad Head/management within that cycle too.
If anything what this really should be doing is highlighting how devastating the past few years of underfunding and gimmickry has damaged education in this country. I suspect that the sideshow will make sure that's the last thing which happens. |
so how would you moderate school rankings other than by using past school performance? what other date would you use to moderate the crude data to avoid a huge level of grade inflation? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:59 - Aug 12 with 999 views | Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:52 - Aug 12 by longtimefan |
“Schools in the poorest areas also have the most volatile swings in results year to year, using historical averages is incredibly crude and discriminatory. If they've used for example the previous 5 years' results by institution then that can punish these kids because there was a bad Head/management within that cycle too”
Isn’t one of the new appeal options based around the fact that if a school can demonstrate differentiation from previous years, then that is a valid appeal route. How the school would do that though is open to question. There obviously needs to be some form of moderation applied as I believe they said on R4 this morning that without it there is a 12% level of grade inflation. |
Well yes, exactly. You are potentially asking them to prove innocence after being punished you can argue. Especially if they are not told exactly where and what for immediately.
Typically we are in the realm of speculation still, but all of the leaks and articles are not painting a good picture in the past week or more. But in that specific kind of case, once the results are out there the damage is done effectively.
I've had a few changed on appeal, but the kids are long gone by then and already on courses or not. | |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 10:00 - Aug 12 with 996 views | Keno |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:43 - Aug 12 by Herbivore |
Well yeah, obvs. |
always thought that of you, it does show |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 10:08 - Aug 12 with 991 views | Mullet |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 09:57 - Aug 12 by lowhouseblue |
so how would you moderate school rankings other than by using past school performance? what other date would you use to moderate the crude data to avoid a huge level of grade inflation? |
Which bit of scrutinise those who have inflated wasn't clear?
The fact that they almost immediately cast aside the smaller cohorts which tend to be in "grammar school subjects" (I know) is part of the problem. It's not consistent or far-reaching enough because it seems inconvenient and that has lead to more mess and miscommunication.
Likewise, "past performance" isn't the problem it's the use of it. I've improved the top end of my results every year and hit national average with even the weakest cohorts which I have no right doing if you use the government criteria.
There is an argument about weighting of each component. If my grade is worth X, the mock worth Y and past grades Z and then averaged out to allow for the students' development over the GCSE, and applied to every subject, every cohort, school etc. you'd have a more watertight starting point at least.
Now everything is up for grabs. However, if I want a script back to check the marking it costs money. Which schools are able to do that on a wide scale? So again cui bono? | |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 10:23 - Aug 12 with 977 views | IpswichKnight |
The marking of A-level geography is really quite fair again the wife was marking the papers in parts of summer holidays, the markers would get together to go through the paper and discuss the chief examiners marking scheme and ammend it if they felt it was needed, the exam papers themselves would always contain 1 or 2 seeded papers in the batches being marked ( had already been marked by the chief examiner or one of the deputies ) and if the mark for that didn't get within the set boundries the examiner would be locked out until the supervisor could go through the paper with the examiner to see why it was such a different mark. | | | |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 14:24 - Aug 12 with 930 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 07:45 - Aug 12 by ElderGrizzly |
My wife worked on the project all summer.
The issue is the Government changing policy 24hrs before results release and ignoring advice all summer |
So it's your wife's fault. Boo MrsGrizzly OUT!
Tough enough to resolve I'd imagine without the Govt flip flopping. Does anyone know if exams have ever been cancelled before? Did they carry on during other periods of disruption, such as during the World Wars? Or is this all unprecedented? |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 17:35 - Aug 12 with 901 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 14:24 - Aug 12 by Swansea_Blue |
So it's your wife's fault. Boo MrsGrizzly OUT!
Tough enough to resolve I'd imagine without the Govt flip flopping. Does anyone know if exams have ever been cancelled before? Did they carry on during other periods of disruption, such as during the World Wars? Or is this all unprecedented? |
Well lots of schools were closed during WW2 and some were destroyed through bombing. Even after urban schools were reopened I think there was a general shortage of teachers for fairly obvious reasons.
I imagine some schools were able to continue with School certs and others not. |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 00:52 - Aug 13 with 841 views | Ely_Blue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:05 - Aug 12 by ElderGrizzly |
You postpone University entrance to January and run exams in October/November.
That was one of the preferred options put forwards anyway |
As someone who has a 16 year old who will be affected by GCSEs this year not being sat I don’t see how sitting exams in Sept/Oct will work if the kids have had no schooling or coaching for the last 6 months whatsoever |  |
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| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 07:50 - Aug 13 with 805 views | pointofblue |
| Method for calculating A Level results to ‘change’ 24 hrs before release on 08:00 - Aug 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Agree. But Its almost as if they’d listened to experts all summer we might have a more workable solution than what is happening.
The Govt rammed through this solution with little consultation with schools or awarding bodies |
From what I read on the BBC site yesterday it is Ofqual who is pushing for the current marking method to be used - taking into account the record of the schools from previous years - as not doing so would be seen as unfair on those who took exams in previous years due to mark inflation. | |
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