| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then 15:59 - Aug 21 with 8740 views | hype313 |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:09 - Aug 22 with 2356 views | jeera |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 08:59 - Aug 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Maybe when you compare it to the Blair v Major option Tweedledum is slightly further to the right but.....meh! |
You're trying too hard there.
Stick to what you know and you're good.
This 'off on a tangent thing' doesn't complement your other work. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 9:10]
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:12 - Aug 22 with 2346 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:09 - Aug 22 by jeera |
You're trying too hard there.
Stick to what you know and you're good.
This 'off on a tangent thing' doesn't complement your other work. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 9:10]
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You want me to only post about what I see and hear in my garden? |  |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:54 - Aug 22 with 2322 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 06:08 - Aug 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Here comes your man Williamson to give his take on it.
He’s been named in the EHRC report and has recently gone full on conspiracist. Quite extraordinary to think that as recently as December he was a Labour MP, and had been member of the Shadow Cabinet and mouthpiece for the leader.
Shows how far Labour come in such a short time under Kier Starmer. The party is almost unrecognisable from its previous incarnation, as the cranks are being suspended and voted of the NEC one by one. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 6:18]
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Yes, it's amazing how the view of Labour has changed in just a few months. It's a different party from how it's now being talked about.
Like a narrative has suddenly shifted ... |  |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:55 - Aug 22 with 2321 views | footers |
Twitter, home of melts being melty about other people being melts. Def info. |  |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:07 - Aug 22 with 2299 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 09:54 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
Yes, it's amazing how the view of Labour has changed in just a few months. It's a different party from how it's now being talked about.
Like a narrative has suddenly shifted ... |
If Starmer isn’t careful he’s going to lose the antisemites.
I see another holocaust denier was kicked out yesterday. Under the last management he would still be a member under a two year long investigation that didn’t really do anywhere. |  |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:12 - Aug 22 with 2294 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 07:43 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Jones now being called a centrist on Twitter.....think everyone is either a centrist or a Nazi to some people on the left. |
There's nothing wrong with being a centrist if that's your thing. Just that in the UK that's always been objectively a fair bit to the right of the policies the country needs to balance things out.
Your disdain for the left and progressive policies would have some some clout if the centre had any policies that were useful. And that the centre hadn't been totally outflanked by the Brexity nationalists and neo-liberals on one hand, and by progressive movements like climate activism, BLM, LGBTQ pride, Scottish independence and a whole host of groups that fight for people's basic rights against systemic injustice.
You see the centre as the way forward. I see the same direction of travel that the UK's been on for decades and leaves a void that ends up in the current government, the same structural inequality, the same suspect democracy, the same creaking Union and the same long-term situation for the most vulnerable in society.
"Better than the Tories" just isn't enough for Labour. Labour's lost Scotland and lost too many of the disillusioned and disenfranchised in England and Wales through simply not offering enough. And if you reject the left and proper, progressive social democracy/socialism then you've got no chance. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:14 - Aug 22 with 2288 views | Enigma_Blue |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 07:43 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Jones now being called a centrist on Twitter.....think everyone is either a centrist or a Nazi to some people on the left. |
You should see some the comments on some alternative right YouTube channels. Quite a few people who voted Tory at the last election are so unhappy with Boris & Priti Patel's lack of action in cracking down on the immigrants crossing the channel they are saying it is because Boris and his cabinet is too liberal. So they say they will not vote Tory at the next election and will vote for a far right party instead! Oh and quite a few would like Farage to became PM.
It's seems the further someone's political leaning whether it be Left or right the less objective they become. |  | | |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:16 - Aug 22 with 2282 views | hampstead_blue |
One of the many reasons I don't engage with twitter.
It all seems rather pointless, regardingless of the politics.
Looks like a rather large online playground. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:17 - Aug 22 with 2280 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:07 - Aug 22 by GlasgowBlue |
If Starmer isn’t careful he’s going to lose the antisemites.
I see another holocaust denier was kicked out yesterday. Under the last management he would still be a member under a two year long investigation that didn’t really do anywhere. |
You'd certainly like that to be true. But as we know, that's not how it worked unless certain "whistleblowers" were involved.
I'm really looking forward to the EHRC report coming out. As it'll force people to look at the evidence rather than the usual tactic of lining up smeary accusations. I think the report certainly won't go anywhere near the narrative you've been pushing and it will bring the smear campaign right back into focus. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:17 - Aug 22 with 2280 views | footers |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:16 - Aug 22 by hampstead_blue |
One of the many reasons I don't engage with twitter.
It all seems rather pointless, regardingless of the politics.
Looks like a rather large online playground. |
I think confining your wit and wisdom to one online platform is more than enough, dear boy. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:39 - Aug 22 with 2209 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:17 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
You'd certainly like that to be true. But as we know, that's not how it worked unless certain "whistleblowers" were involved.
I'm really looking forward to the EHRC report coming out. As it'll force people to look at the evidence rather than the usual tactic of lining up smeary accusations. I think the report certainly won't go anywhere near the narrative you've been pushing and it will bring the smear campaign right back into focus. |
There was a rumour, which TDS posted on here, that the EHRC had recommended that Corbyn lose the whip but I can’t see that happening.
It can’t be long now from it being published. Starmer has had a copy for a month now. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 11:09]
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:43 - Aug 22 with 2200 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:39 - Aug 22 by GlasgowBlue |
There was a rumour, which TDS posted on here, that the EHRC had recommended that Corbyn lose the whip but I can’t see that happening.
It can’t be long now from it being published. Starmer has had a copy for a month now. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 11:09]
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Again. I'll enjoy seeing the rumours and smears being actually tested for once. And the irony is that you'll have to use an actual report and evidence for the first time.
When combined with the comprehensive evidence of the Labour Leaks, it ain't going to look good for your chosen narrative. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:49 - Aug 22 with 2179 views | Herbivore |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 08:59 - Aug 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Maybe when you compare it to the Blair v Major option Tweedledum is slightly further to the right but.....meh! |
It really isn't a case of slightly further to the right though when comparing Starmer's Labour and Johnson's Tories. It's a chasm as things stand. Those on the left can't bang on about centrists enabling a Tory government on the one hand and then when someone who is closer to the centre but still miles left of the Tories leads the party start throwing tantrums and refusing to support him. Your ideological purity doesn't mean much against people literally losing their lives because of this government and yes, I've said the same to those in the middle or people who used to vote Labour who refused to do so in the last election. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 10:50]
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:55 - Aug 22 with 2165 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:49 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
It really isn't a case of slightly further to the right though when comparing Starmer's Labour and Johnson's Tories. It's a chasm as things stand. Those on the left can't bang on about centrists enabling a Tory government on the one hand and then when someone who is closer to the centre but still miles left of the Tories leads the party start throwing tantrums and refusing to support him. Your ideological purity doesn't mean much against people literally losing their lives because of this government and yes, I've said the same to those in the middle or people who used to vote Labour who refused to do so in the last election. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 10:50]
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I agree with that.
I just want to see Starmer pitching the case for the platform he pledged in his leadership campaign. I know the pandemic is happening but with that, BLM and the continuing climate emergency there's no better time to actually sow the seeds for these policies in the public debate 4 years out from an election. As it stands we're just going to move on to the politics of Brexit again rather than the underlying issues and challenges.
If we've learnt anything from the past decade or more it's about the need to lead the debate and the pointlessness of passively following it. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 10:56]
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:59 - Aug 22 with 2149 views | hype313 |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:55 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
I agree with that.
I just want to see Starmer pitching the case for the platform he pledged in his leadership campaign. I know the pandemic is happening but with that, BLM and the continuing climate emergency there's no better time to actually sow the seeds for these policies in the public debate 4 years out from an election. As it stands we're just going to move on to the politics of Brexit again rather than the underlying issues and challenges.
If we've learnt anything from the past decade or more it's about the need to lead the debate and the pointlessness of passively following it. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 10:56]
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Starmer doesn't need to pitch anything, he's playing a very wise long game, don't get embroiled in hubris and bluster, criticize when needed, show leadership and let the Tories start their own civil war, which remarkably is already happening 8 months into to Johnson's premiership. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:15 - Aug 22 with 2130 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:59 - Aug 22 by hype313 |
Starmer doesn't need to pitch anything, he's playing a very wise long game, don't get embroiled in hubris and bluster, criticize when needed, show leadership and let the Tories start their own civil war, which remarkably is already happening 8 months into to Johnson's premiership. |
Doesn't matter though. If the debate hasn't shifted sufficiently by 2024 or whenever then Labour can't win anyway. They just won't have the numbers without offering real solutions to people in Scotland and the "Red Wall".
That's on a party political level. Never mind the fact that the UK is becoming more and more out of step with the challenges of the modern world.
We need to be pitching something major like a Green New Deal, electoral reform, taking millions of children out of poverty, investing in infrastructure and public services, resolving the imbalances across regions and our economy etc. Or more realistically a package addressing all of those to a fairly substantial degree.
We can't let this slide into Brexity immigration, trade, regulatory and identity discussions where the Tories and their outriders have had their way and controlled the debate. And, most importantly, have faced little to no backlash from their poor record on the more important stuff above.
Labour needs to learn its lessons from the past few decades and be an active force for change rather than the stumbling block that other movements and ideas just overtake and move away from. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:18 - Aug 22 with 2115 views | Mullet |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:59 - Aug 22 by hype313 |
Starmer doesn't need to pitch anything, he's playing a very wise long game, don't get embroiled in hubris and bluster, criticize when needed, show leadership and let the Tories start their own civil war, which remarkably is already happening 8 months into to Johnson's premiership. |
Quite, yet those who trumpet the vision and radicalism of Jezza are ironically blind to it. Must be all the sand. |  |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:18 - Aug 22 with 2114 views | hampstead_blue |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:17 - Aug 22 by footers |
I think confining your wit and wisdom to one online platform is more than enough, dear boy. |
Have been on the grinding wheel?
You're very sharp today.
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:34 - Aug 22 with 2081 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:18 - Aug 22 by Mullet |
Quite, yet those who trumpet the vision and radicalism of Jezza are ironically blind to it. Must be all the sand. |
The Tory civil war has already taken us here and to this Hard Brexit-loving, empathy-lacking government with a majority.
We've seen all of this before with Cameron to May and to BoJo. And it doesn't matter if they "re-brand" with a new leader when BoJo appears to become an electoral liability.
They've done all this because there's no compelling message from the opposition. Barring the time that message was allowed to be heard in the run-up to the 2017 election and Brexit wasn't itself a focus.
The "vision and radicalism of Jezza" isn't even visionary or radical. This is bog-standard social democracy for the most part. If opposition parties normalized the debate around this stuff (as the SNP does in Scotland even as a very broad church centre party) then maybe we'd get the political debate and governments we deserve.
Give me that long game before the performative and electoral gaming stuff that we already know the Tories are far better equipped, and tried and tested, to deliver. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:43 - Aug 22 with 2060 views | Mullet |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:34 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
The Tory civil war has already taken us here and to this Hard Brexit-loving, empathy-lacking government with a majority.
We've seen all of this before with Cameron to May and to BoJo. And it doesn't matter if they "re-brand" with a new leader when BoJo appears to become an electoral liability.
They've done all this because there's no compelling message from the opposition. Barring the time that message was allowed to be heard in the run-up to the 2017 election and Brexit wasn't itself a focus.
The "vision and radicalism of Jezza" isn't even visionary or radical. This is bog-standard social democracy for the most part. If opposition parties normalized the debate around this stuff (as the SNP does in Scotland even as a very broad church centre party) then maybe we'd get the political debate and governments we deserve.
Give me that long game before the performative and electoral gaming stuff that we already know the Tories are far better equipped, and tried and tested, to deliver. |
Unfortunately that's not how the plastic Lenins of social media portray it to people and was part of the reason he was such a dismal failure. The fact they now double down on it and abuse anyone and everyone only undermines the opposition further.
It's pathetic, illogical and ultimately as flawed as any of the flag chewing Brexiteer types. They need to accept that for all the evils of this current lot, Jezza did nothing but aide and abet the by being so inept in so many ways.
If they truly wanted change and a Labour government they'd welcome Starmer with open arms and admit they were wrong. But people like that, don't. Which is why Johnson will pave the way for his successor to be lauded in a decade's time most likely. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:44 - Aug 22 with 2054 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:49 - Aug 22 by Herbivore |
It really isn't a case of slightly further to the right though when comparing Starmer's Labour and Johnson's Tories. It's a chasm as things stand. Those on the left can't bang on about centrists enabling a Tory government on the one hand and then when someone who is closer to the centre but still miles left of the Tories leads the party start throwing tantrums and refusing to support him. Your ideological purity doesn't mean much against people literally losing their lives because of this government and yes, I've said the same to those in the middle or people who used to vote Labour who refused to do so in the last election. [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 10:50]
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So the ongoing mechanics of how the centre keeps drifting further right! | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:54 - Aug 22 with 2039 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:43 - Aug 22 by Mullet |
Unfortunately that's not how the plastic Lenins of social media portray it to people and was part of the reason he was such a dismal failure. The fact they now double down on it and abuse anyone and everyone only undermines the opposition further.
It's pathetic, illogical and ultimately as flawed as any of the flag chewing Brexiteer types. They need to accept that for all the evils of this current lot, Jezza did nothing but aide and abet the by being so inept in so many ways.
If they truly wanted change and a Labour government they'd welcome Starmer with open arms and admit they were wrong. But people like that, don't. Which is why Johnson will pave the way for his successor to be lauded in a decade's time most likely. |
Come on. You're better than that Red Scare nonsense.
And we're into Corbyn had to go/"Well said Keir" territory if you start talking about how the debate is characterised.
We need to be talking real-world issues and policies to resolve them. And Labour will run out of time or have the debate decided for them unless they start being proactive on that score.
It's decades of this lack of genuine, real-world and undoubtedly left-wing alternative that's brought us here. So I'm not going to let Labour keep making the same mistake and always enabling this slide right. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:59 - Aug 22 with 2029 views | Mullet |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:54 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
Come on. You're better than that Red Scare nonsense.
And we're into Corbyn had to go/"Well said Keir" territory if you start talking about how the debate is characterised.
We need to be talking real-world issues and policies to resolve them. And Labour will run out of time or have the debate decided for them unless they start being proactive on that score.
It's decades of this lack of genuine, real-world and undoubtedly left-wing alternative that's brought us here. So I'm not going to let Labour keep making the same mistake and always enabling this slide right. |
It's not Red Scare nonsense it's a clear and demonstrable position from "comrades" on twitter and other social media platforms. Their doubling down and attempt to alienate people is massively damaging and problematic and one of the reasons why Keir Starmer is so necessary.
The fact that he is attacked by the bitter remnants of Momentum whatever he says or does is evident daily. The problem is your last sentence ignores earlier points about the right-wing stranglehold on media and narrative.
The reason so many people deserted Labour this time was also down to Corbyn's own failings and the perception he was being led around by a bunch of snarling kids and extremists. How accurate that is irrelevant since he did nothing to correct and we have people happy to live up to that role rather than accept he was just a bit sh1t. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 12:01 - Aug 22 with 2029 views | Darth_Koont |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 11:44 - Aug 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So the ongoing mechanics of how the centre keeps drifting further right! |
Indeed. A centre that's then surprised and outflanked by the even further right that can really get behind that direction of travel.
FWIW they can have the logic and rational good sense of a "movement" like Remain but that just ended up helping the right.
I wonder if the penny will ever drop. | |
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| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 12:21 - Aug 22 with 1996 views | tractordownsouth |
| Katie Hopkins of the left is still going strong then on 10:12 - Aug 22 by Darth_Koont |
There's nothing wrong with being a centrist if that's your thing. Just that in the UK that's always been objectively a fair bit to the right of the policies the country needs to balance things out.
Your disdain for the left and progressive policies would have some some clout if the centre had any policies that were useful. And that the centre hadn't been totally outflanked by the Brexity nationalists and neo-liberals on one hand, and by progressive movements like climate activism, BLM, LGBTQ pride, Scottish independence and a whole host of groups that fight for people's basic rights against systemic injustice.
You see the centre as the way forward. I see the same direction of travel that the UK's been on for decades and leaves a void that ends up in the current government, the same structural inequality, the same suspect democracy, the same creaking Union and the same long-term situation for the most vulnerable in society.
"Better than the Tories" just isn't enough for Labour. Labour's lost Scotland and lost too many of the disillusioned and disenfranchised in England and Wales through simply not offering enough. And if you reject the left and proper, progressive social democracy/socialism then you've got no chance. |
There needs to be a better narrative from the centre for sure. For example, Ed Miliband had some good ideas but he was trying to balance cutting the deficit, opposition to austerity and controlling immigration. Compromise is often a good thing but without an overall story the campaign falls flat on its’ face.
I don’t speak for Joe but as someone in a similar position on the political spectrum, I don’t think either of us have “disdain” for left wing policies. I quite liked a lot of the last Labour manifesto but evidently there was too much in it, and it wasn’t credible. Having a moderate but coherent strategy and winning power to implement some of those policies is far superior to offering all of the policies and losing again. That manifesto has lost 2 elections, so going more extreme won’t change that. The Tories did it with IDS and look how that went.
At the end of the day any Labour govt is better than a Tory one but it’s about bringing about change and not ideological purity |  |
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