| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:11 - Sep 17 with 3026 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 10:22 - Sep 17 by StokieBlue |
As stated, I can't drive an older car, especially diesel where I live without incurring a daily fine of 15 GBP. Some would say that's how it should be and to be honest they are probably right but from October 2021 there will be more than 3m people in the same position.
So just buying second hand cars, especially diesels, isn't the solution for everyone as you seem to be claiming.
SB |
Not to mention there's not a cat in hell's chance of manufactures volunteering to reduce production - they haven't spent years linking into the fleet world to let that happen. So new cars will be built. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:15 - Sep 17 with 3016 views | StokieBlue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:09 - Sep 17 by WeWereZombies |
Exactly, I have just had a look on my periodic table and that stuff is right at the bottom end where it can only be made in the laboratory and is so unstable it is only around for seconds.
Oh hang on, I've got the card upside down - turns out that hydrogen is the most ubiquitous element of all.
Sorry, sometimes a statement needs to be qualified.
But researching the current state of hydrogen vehicles throws up some surprising facts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Rivaz_engine
There must be scope to get a win/win out of gas emissions from landfill by capturing that before it hits the atmosphere and then using it for technology that replaces petrol and diesel power:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production#Environmental_impact |
Very good :).
As you well know though, being the most abundant element across the universe doesn't mean it's abundant in it's singular form - it's mostly needs to be freed from a bond with another element when found on Earth, water probably being the most sensible choice.
The landfill capture is an option but it's not going to be anything like the scale required.
SB |  | | |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:21 - Sep 17 with 3006 views | jeera |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 09:41 - Sep 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Having solar at home is one of the main reasons I'm thinking about electric next time we swap out our small car - all it does is run kids around town to their activities every evening. So it could sit on charge all day off our solar and we'd still get the generation and feed in tariffs too. Wouldn't need a big battery even. I know we we'd lose money on depreciation, but we'd effectively be getting paid to power it up when the daytime load of the panels is negligible. |
If cars were fitted with mini wind turbines on their roofs, they could generate their own power as they move along.
Just saying. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:25 - Sep 17 with 3006 views | WeWereZombies |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:15 - Sep 17 by StokieBlue |
Very good :).
As you well know though, being the most abundant element across the universe doesn't mean it's abundant in it's singular form - it's mostly needs to be freed from a bond with another element when found on Earth, water probably being the most sensible choice.
The landfill capture is an option but it's not going to be anything like the scale required.
SB |
The bad news which is really good news is that landfill emissions have halved in a decade:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/509129/greenhouse-gas-emissions-landfill-in-
The good news which is really bad news is that they still stand at 14,400,000 equivalent tons of carbon dioxide a year
Even if an efficient way of converting that, mostly, methane to, mostly, hydrogen could be found I think the more compelling argument remains 'buy less stuff, throw less of it away and walk or cycle instead of driving everywhere'. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:30 - Sep 17 with 3003 views | giant_stow |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:21 - Sep 17 by jeera |
If cars were fitted with mini wind turbines on their roofs, they could generate their own power as they move along.
Just saying. |
Cracker! Have you spoken to the car industry about this? |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:33 - Sep 17 with 3002 views | jeera |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:30 - Sep 17 by giant_stow |
Cracker! Have you spoken to the car industry about this? |
I need to patent it first. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:47 - Sep 17 with 2991 views | BryanPlug |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:33 - Sep 17 by jeera |
I need to patent it first. |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:57 - Sep 17 with 2988 views | WeWereZombies |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:21 - Sep 17 by jeera |
If cars were fitted with mini wind turbines on their roofs, they could generate their own power as they move along.
Just saying. |
Or sails, you could put sails on the roof. And then to lower friction you could take the wheels off and roundly smooth off their underside before putting them on a canal for maximum efficiency. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:04 - Sep 17 with 2980 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:47 - Sep 17 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Ford? Never heard of them. I'm sure the legal department of Jeera Motors can make that patent disappear and then he can move beyond the first prototype:
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:05 - Sep 17 with 2979 views | jeera |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:47 - Sep 17 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Blimey. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:06 - Sep 17 with 2977 views | jeera |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:04 - Sep 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Ford? Never heard of them. I'm sure the legal department of Jeera Motors can make that patent disappear and then he can move beyond the first prototype:
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Yes, that's probably a lot closer to my line of [non] expertise than the rather sophisticated one that b.plug linked. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:09 - Sep 17 with 2973 views | jeera |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 11:57 - Sep 17 by WeWereZombies |
Or sails, you could put sails on the roof. And then to lower friction you could take the wheels off and roundly smooth off their underside before putting them on a canal for maximum efficiency. |
Or put iron wheels on the bottom with slots that would make them run on some kind of track.
We're gonna change the world!
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 17:30 - Sep 17 with 2934 views | eireblue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 15:52 - Sep 16 by StokieBlue |
So that car would cost you 15 quid a day from 2021 to drive where I live due to the low emissions zone.
Should people be buying them here or do you concede it's not quite as black and white as you are making out and due to legislation there is a need for bother newer and lower emissions vehicles?
There is a world outside Hampstead Towers.
SB |
Outside Hampstead Towers, is it possible to buy second hand cars that don’t have boastful 0-60 times, or 12 cylinders.
I was wondering if any of those Hybrid or PHEV cars are available second hand?
Is that, like a thing? |  | | |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 17:32 - Sep 17 with 2931 views | Herbivore |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 17:30 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
Outside Hampstead Towers, is it possible to buy second hand cars that don’t have boastful 0-60 times, or 12 cylinders.
I was wondering if any of those Hybrid or PHEV cars are available second hand?
Is that, like a thing? |
No, you can only buy them brand new and then they get thrown into the ocean after a year and you have to buy another brand new one. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 20:16 - Sep 17 with 2896 views | hampstead_blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 17:30 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
Outside Hampstead Towers, is it possible to buy second hand cars that don’t have boastful 0-60 times, or 12 cylinders.
I was wondering if any of those Hybrid or PHEV cars are available second hand?
Is that, like a thing? |
One of the problem with used EV cars is the battery degradation.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
It's scary that a used Tesla S is still around £60k for a decent one but the battery life is significantly less than a well maintained petrol car.
In fact compare the costs, bot £ and environmental of running a Tesla P100D and equivalent BMW M5. I'd wager that if you factor in the costs of battery replacement they could be very close in both £ and environmental terms.
Nobody has done that comparison that I can see. I'd like to see how it looks.
Oh, there is nothing wrong with having a car which gives you a big grin every now and then. Cheap as chips to buy and as long as you keep them serviced they live long lives.
Keeping something special in use and using it sparingly is a perfectly reasonable and rational thing to do. I just happen to like interesting cars.
I'd rather buy something interesting than a used Passat! ;-) |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 21:05 - Sep 17 with 2873 views | eireblue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 20:16 - Sep 17 by hampstead_blue |
One of the problem with used EV cars is the battery degradation.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
It's scary that a used Tesla S is still around £60k for a decent one but the battery life is significantly less than a well maintained petrol car.
In fact compare the costs, bot £ and environmental of running a Tesla P100D and equivalent BMW M5. I'd wager that if you factor in the costs of battery replacement they could be very close in both £ and environmental terms.
Nobody has done that comparison that I can see. I'd like to see how it looks.
Oh, there is nothing wrong with having a car which gives you a big grin every now and then. Cheap as chips to buy and as long as you keep them serviced they live long lives.
Keeping something special in use and using it sparingly is a perfectly reasonable and rational thing to do. I just happen to like interesting cars.
I'd rather buy something interesting than a used Passat! ;-) |
“Nobody has done that comparison that I can see.”
Yep, always good to make decisions with lack of data.
Yep, you are absolutely correct, you can choose to decide that certain things are more important than others for you.
You being a person that likes science, will of course respect some of the foundational Greek philosophers. I like Socrates, his love of wisdom as the most important pursuit above all else is noble.
As he said, the un-examined life is not worth living.
Maybe you should just stop pretending you care about humanity or the environment above your own personal enjoyment, or have anything worth saying with respect to helping climate change or societal change.
But that is fine, we all know you are hard right.
And we know, from your lack of responses, the current situation with structural in-equality and environmental damage is not a function of hard left governments, and hard right people like yourself have nothing to say on solving these issues. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 21:15]
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 21:31 - Sep 17 with 2862 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 17:30 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
Outside Hampstead Towers, is it possible to buy second hand cars that don’t have boastful 0-60 times, or 12 cylinders.
I was wondering if any of those Hybrid or PHEV cars are available second hand?
Is that, like a thing? |
When we spent time in America we inherited one of the first gen Honda civic hybrids. Must have been 15 years old with nearly 200k on the clock and it was fine. No idea how degraded or not the battery was, but it worked well enough. We took it through a service with no problems picked up (apart form body panels dropping off).
It's only a sample of 1 mind. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 22:02 - Sep 17 with 2849 views | Kievthegreat |
First thing to point out that the manufacturers haven't got the test wrong, they test is done in the presence of regulators and there is literally no evidence they've cheated. The issue is you're using a 30 minute test to calculate emissions, fuel efficiency and electric autonomy. The speeds of the test are realistic simulating different driving conditions, but the accelerations are smoother with no stops for traffic, lights, etc...
Now 30 minutes driving on the test means the ICE component does very little work, it's either just on to run heating or to take over a motorway driving speed. Now the data that the report uses (not their own, a compilation of other people's data) is a real hodge-podge.
The yearly reports from the ICCT use multiple methodologies, some quite bizarre. They include fuel consumption data from fleet cars from Holland with Honest John user MPGs (weighted exactly the same). I found quite ironic that they use some data from Autobild where they tested the cars by driving them 300km on a single journey. Ironic because you'd expect "real-world" fuel consumption to provide a better number, but you've rigged the test against the test subject (it's actually because the test is standard across every car test rather than an agenda, but the end result is the same). A drive from Ipswich to Sheffield is not a fair test. Not looked through them all (plus some aren't in English), but Honest John user readings really should not be included with real test data (even if I dislike the test criteria).
Now do I like PHEVs? Not really. It's a halfway house full of compromises. You're carrying 2 powertrains with twice as much to go wrong, with more weight, with more compromises to make it all fit. It is more efficient that just ICE, but the running emissions of a pure EV would be in the order of a few tonnes (varies depending on local electricity mix) compared to 30-40 tonnes for a PHEV. It is also ripe for abuse, I knew people who got a PHEV, but have never charged it unless they happened to stop somewhere with a free charger. They park on the street at home so never could charge from home and so it was usually just ran as a ICE with 150kg extra ballast. They got the tax benefits and then pump out all the same CO2 anyway. |  | | |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:35 - Sep 18 with 2764 views | hampstead_blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 21:05 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
“Nobody has done that comparison that I can see.”
Yep, always good to make decisions with lack of data.
Yep, you are absolutely correct, you can choose to decide that certain things are more important than others for you.
You being a person that likes science, will of course respect some of the foundational Greek philosophers. I like Socrates, his love of wisdom as the most important pursuit above all else is noble.
As he said, the un-examined life is not worth living.
Maybe you should just stop pretending you care about humanity or the environment above your own personal enjoyment, or have anything worth saying with respect to helping climate change or societal change.
But that is fine, we all know you are hard right.
And we know, from your lack of responses, the current situation with structural in-equality and environmental damage is not a function of hard left governments, and hard right people like yourself have nothing to say on solving these issues. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 21:15]
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Turn a valid point into a personal attack.
Well played. Another nail in your credibility. Keep banging. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:15 - Sep 18 with 2746 views | eireblue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 12:35 - Sep 18 by hampstead_blue |
Turn a valid point into a personal attack.
Well played. Another nail in your credibility. Keep banging. |
I prefer personal attacks, based on what people post.
I know you like to be sarcastic and dismissive of a teenager that will do more for the environment than you will before she is 18.
I know you like to hide behind, as do others, dismissive phrases like, all you hard left types.
I know you like to be dismissive, and lie about organisations.
Big deal.
I am much happier to be specific, as I said, happy to say things to your face.
As Sir David Attenborough said, "What happens next is up to every one of us." .
Your choices, that you choose to publicise on here, is to do less than nothing, and just be critical of others trying to make a difference
That’s you that is.
So yes, my comments are directed specifically at you, based on what you post, and what you choose not to answer. [Post edited 18 Sep 2020 13:22]
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:38 - Sep 18 with 2739 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 09:48 - Sep 17 by ElephantintheRoom |
I find it bizarre that you cannot comprehend the environmental cost of building such inefficient cars - compared to the zero cost of buying one that already exists.
Take a close look at where those unfit for purpose batteries come from too |
I absolutely can comprehend it. But let's not pretend that older cars that already exist are environmentally friendly and what about the impacts involved in extracting oil, converting it and transporting it? It doesn't magically appear in the forecourts does it?
I appreciate your points on the battery, I am under no illusion that these are not perfect but again let's not pretend that the other alternative isn't an issue and needs to change. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:46 - Sep 18 with 2730 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 20:16 - Sep 17 by hampstead_blue |
One of the problem with used EV cars is the battery degradation.
https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
It's scary that a used Tesla S is still around £60k for a decent one but the battery life is significantly less than a well maintained petrol car.
In fact compare the costs, bot £ and environmental of running a Tesla P100D and equivalent BMW M5. I'd wager that if you factor in the costs of battery replacement they could be very close in both £ and environmental terms.
Nobody has done that comparison that I can see. I'd like to see how it looks.
Oh, there is nothing wrong with having a car which gives you a big grin every now and then. Cheap as chips to buy and as long as you keep them serviced they live long lives.
Keeping something special in use and using it sparingly is a perfectly reasonable and rational thing to do. I just happen to like interesting cars.
I'd rather buy something interesting than a used Passat! ;-) |
Ref the batteries, yes they do degrade but they are frequently being recycled now into batteries for the home etc. as the time to required charge / discharge is significantly less. Batteries are also built up of cells, so you don't always need to replace the whole thing just one, or some of the cells.
Again, on the traditional ICE front - they do have things that need replacing as well that are very expensive! Clutches, engines, gearboxes, yes all these things can and do go wrong!
EVs by their very nature have fewer moving parts and require a lot less servicing.
My argument for the environmental impact is always - which car you would rather sit in a sealed room with for an hour whilst its 'engine' is active? A car powered by Electricity, Petrol or Diesel? | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:48 - Sep 18 with 2729 views | Herbivore |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:15 - Sep 18 by eireblue |
I prefer personal attacks, based on what people post.
I know you like to be sarcastic and dismissive of a teenager that will do more for the environment than you will before she is 18.
I know you like to hide behind, as do others, dismissive phrases like, all you hard left types.
I know you like to be dismissive, and lie about organisations.
Big deal.
I am much happier to be specific, as I said, happy to say things to your face.
As Sir David Attenborough said, "What happens next is up to every one of us." .
Your choices, that you choose to publicise on here, is to do less than nothing, and just be critical of others trying to make a difference
That’s you that is.
So yes, my comments are directed specifically at you, based on what you post, and what you choose not to answer. [Post edited 18 Sep 2020 13:22]
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Hammers cares about causes in a very specific way, that way being to say that he cares about them whilst refusing to make any changes that might make a difference and whilst attempting to discredit any movement or individual that wants to bring about changes that could inconvenience him. | |
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