| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:56 - Oct 12 with 1217 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:49 - Oct 12 by Harry_Palmer |
Is this actually a serious suggestion? |
That's how quarantine literally works in countries that have done much better than us in managing the spread. In fact they've been more strict than that as everyone was 'locked up' and no visits were allowed. It works though. Food for thought maybe. |  |
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| My mate was in China when ..... on 12:00 - Oct 12 with 1205 views | Bloots |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:56 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
That's how quarantine literally works in countries that have done much better than us in managing the spread. In fact they've been more strict than that as everyone was 'locked up' and no visits were allowed. It works though. Food for thought maybe. |
....it all kicked off initially.
He literally wasn't allowed out of his flat.
He was delivered food parcels.
The UK population can't even cope with the pubs shutting at 10pm. |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 with 1200 views | hype313 |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:56 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
That's how quarantine literally works in countries that have done much better than us in managing the spread. In fact they've been more strict than that as everyone was 'locked up' and no visits were allowed. It works though. Food for thought maybe. |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 with 1198 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 by Guthrum |
Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious. |
The biggest issue with that (apart from the outcry it would cause) is that it would probably make few inroads. Take into account a failing track and trace programme and a large number of asymptomatic carriers and there'd be far more still our circulating than being quarantined. | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:05 - Oct 12 with 1194 views | Guthrum |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:49 - Oct 12 by Harry_Palmer |
Is this actually a serious suggestion? |
Friend of mine went to Lithuania at the start of lockdown (her father was very ill). Her two weeks of quarantine after ariving there amounted to exactly that.
Edit: Tho without the family visits. She was just confined to a hotel room. [Post edited 12 Oct 2020 12:18]
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:06 - Oct 12 with 1194 views | BlueBadger |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:49 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue |
Most are but a minority seem to think it is OK to act like a selfish idiot because the likes of Hancock, Cummings etc do. |
I'm 9 days into a quarantine following a trip to Portugal at the end of September to do some sorting-out for the inlaws(FiL spent 6 weeks in ITU over there last year and hasn't really had much of a professional eye cast over him since discharge and MiL Has Concerns). The difference between there and here in terms of social cohesion is marked. No apparent grumbling and arguing about mask wearing and distancing beyond 'they're a pain in the arse, but that's life'), it's very clear what the rules are and actually, they're operating under more of a semblance of normal life than we are here. Notably, there's many more people just out and about in the streets wearing masks rather than doing the 'on-and-off' that we're all(and I'm counting myself here as well) tending to do over here
One of the interesting things they've done over there is essentially allowed the bars, cafes and restaurants to stay open until roughly 1AM but supermarkets and shops *have* to stop selling alcohol after 8PM, meaning that everyone can still do a bit of a trade and you don't have the phenomenon of 'everyone back to mine'/'into the off' post-pub that we're seeing in this country.
Granted, the drinking culture over there is much, much different and I'm note sure that this approach would work over here(and in any case, all the data we have suggest that the main driver behind our current mini-surge is the push to send people back to schools, university and the office) but it may ameliorate the issue of people hanging around in the streets and flooding offies bit. [Post edited 12 Oct 2020 12:09]
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| My mate was in China when ..... on 12:06 - Oct 12 with 1188 views | DanTheMan |
| My mate was in China when ..... on 12:00 - Oct 12 by Bloots |
....it all kicked off initially.
He literally wasn't allowed out of his flat.
He was delivered food parcels.
The UK population can't even cope with the pubs shutting at 10pm. |
Whilst I do understand that lockdown has a serious effect on people's mental health which shouldn't be discounted, our measures have been far lighter than some.
Seeing people getting upset they can't go on a bloody holiday abroad any things like that is just so absurd. Yes, it's not great but it's really not the end of the world.
I've had to cancel my wedding and I'm now looking at something that is costing £2k-3k more just because we've had to change the month and bands prices have absolutely sky rocketed. Luckily been able to rearrange everything else. It's not the end of the world though. |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:07 - Oct 12 with 1184 views | StokieBlue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 by hype313 |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |
How many deaths would it have been without lockdown though?
It's a horrible equation for governments to try and balance, one without an obvious solution.
SB |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:11 - Oct 12 with 1180 views | Guthrum |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 by hype313 |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |
Which rather begs the question as to why that should be.
Are people not receiving sufficient support (social as well as financial)? Is the mental health of the modern population so fragile that it cannot withstand a shock like that? Do people have nothing to live for other than their social lives? Are they too lonely, despite social media?
And what can be done about it? | |
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| Exactly..... on 12:16 - Oct 12 with 1171 views | Bloots |
| My mate was in China when ..... on 12:06 - Oct 12 by DanTheMan |
Whilst I do understand that lockdown has a serious effect on people's mental health which shouldn't be discounted, our measures have been far lighter than some.
Seeing people getting upset they can't go on a bloody holiday abroad any things like that is just so absurd. Yes, it's not great but it's really not the end of the world.
I've had to cancel my wedding and I'm now looking at something that is costing £2k-3k more just because we've had to change the month and bands prices have absolutely sky rocketed. Luckily been able to rearrange everything else. It's not the end of the world though. |
....everyone has a "hard luck story" (I don't mean that as a dig!)
I still haven't even got my bleeding refund from Virgin for a trip to the US in June, about £3k is still owed.
Unfortunately the British nature is to moan that nothing is done and then moan about the consequences when something is done.
My attitude is fast becoming that the strongest will survive and all my focus is just on my family and closest friends, and sod the rest of them.
.....but that really isn't a healthy attitude. | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:17 - Oct 12 with 1165 views | 26_Paz |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:49 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue |
We have not "avoided the situation" Paz, they just announced this:
"More people are now in hospital with Covid than before restrictions were announced in March."
Don't forget the graphs are all lagged two or three weeks.
The Nightingale hospitals are opening up north. Perhaps you can give your freedom at any costs posts a bit of a break for a while.
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They’re on standby. They haven’t opened up. |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:19 - Oct 12 with 1162 views | NthQldITFC |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:22 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue |
This is really rather unhelpful as well, just giving people more excuses which we really don't need.
"Margaret Ferrier argued that the virus "makes you act out of character" in an interview with the Sun on Sunday."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54496759
SB |
It always amazes me how people will make moronic excuses which almost nobody will swallow, in the belief that this somehow makes them look better! In trying to wriggle out of taking responsibility for your actions you always end up looking far more of a fool, and perversely it's usually the ones for whom looking a fool is the most troubling who do it. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| I've lost two friends to suicide.... on 12:19 - Oct 12 with 1164 views | Bloots |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:11 - Oct 12 by Guthrum |
Which rather begs the question as to why that should be.
Are people not receiving sufficient support (social as well as financial)? Is the mental health of the modern population so fragile that it cannot withstand a shock like that? Do people have nothing to live for other than their social lives? Are they too lonely, despite social media?
And what can be done about it? |
....in the last two months, one of them quite a close friend.
They both had underlying issues which were exacerbated by the current situation.
Neither of them received any additional support during lockdown.
This is a really tough time for pretty much everyone, but those with pre existing conditions need help from somewhere. | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:19 - Oct 12 with 1157 views | giant_stow |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 by hype313 |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |
Wow thats quite a stat. Hope we don't make the same mistake. |  |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:19 - Oct 12 with 1157 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 by hype313 |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |
Are they? Blimey that's awful, as I don't think they'd seen an increase in suicides during the spring/summer. I've just had a quick look of the news coming out of Victoria. It's a different world to here. They've got stricter lockdown measures than here and yet we're not planning to ease them until they got below 5 cases per day (nationally). They're currently around 9/10 new ones per day. We're at what, bouncing around 15,000 new cases a day? | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:20 - Oct 12 with 1155 views | HARRY10 |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 by Guthrum |
Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious. |
maybe they should just be culled, as with BSE |  | | |
| Exactly..... on 12:21 - Oct 12 with 1155 views | DanTheMan |
| Exactly..... on 12:16 - Oct 12 by Bloots |
....everyone has a "hard luck story" (I don't mean that as a dig!)
I still haven't even got my bleeding refund from Virgin for a trip to the US in June, about £3k is still owed.
Unfortunately the British nature is to moan that nothing is done and then moan about the consequences when something is done.
My attitude is fast becoming that the strongest will survive and all my focus is just on my family and closest friends, and sod the rest of them.
.....but that really isn't a healthy attitude. |
All I can say on the Virgin front is keep moaning and moaning and moaning until they just give it to you. Had to do the same with a cancelled holiday to Italy in March with lastminute. Ended up going all the way to ABTA and, surprise surprise, once they got involved I managed to get a full refund. [Post edited 12 Oct 2020 12:22]
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:24 - Oct 12 with 1148 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:19 - Oct 12 by giant_stow |
Wow thats quite a stat. Hope we don't make the same mistake. |
We've made our mistake already in the 40K-60K deaths (depending whether you go on official figures or excess deaths). Oz has had less than 1,000.
Not to dismiss mental health aspects of course - you need to somehow deal with that at the same time. | |
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| 120 days is their official line.... on 12:25 - Oct 12 with 1150 views | Bloots |
| Exactly..... on 12:21 - Oct 12 by DanTheMan |
All I can say on the Virgin front is keep moaning and moaning and moaning until they just give it to you. Had to do the same with a cancelled holiday to Italy in March with lastminute. Ended up going all the way to ABTA and, surprise surprise, once they got involved I managed to get a full refund. [Post edited 12 Oct 2020 12:22]
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....and that's tomorrow.
Then I'm going round beardy Branson's house to drop some dog crap through his letter box. | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:28 - Oct 12 with 1146 views | NthQldITFC |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:02 - Oct 12 by hype313 |
Indeed, have a look at Melbourne's lockdown over the past 12 weeks, it's been brutal, so much so that suicides numbers are 1200 compared with 300 Covid deaths. |
I think I'm right in saying that the 1200 figure is for the whole of Australia since March, rather than Melbourne in the last 12 weeks, which is how I read it at first. Apologies if that's what you meant. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:31 - Oct 12 with 1134 views | StokieBlue |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:17 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz |
They’re on standby. They haven’t opened up. |
Quick to pick up on that whilst incredibly slow to answer anything else put to you.
What about the rest of the post?
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:32 - Oct 12 with 1134 views | Guthrum |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:20 - Oct 12 by HARRY10 |
maybe they should just be culled, as with BSE |
A short, two-week confinement, under fairly comfortable conditions while being looked after mentally and financially, is hardly on the same plane as being slaughtered. | |
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| I've lost two friends to suicide.... on 12:35 - Oct 12 with 1132 views | Guthrum |
| I've lost two friends to suicide.... on 12:19 - Oct 12 by Bloots |
....in the last two months, one of them quite a close friend.
They both had underlying issues which were exacerbated by the current situation.
Neither of them received any additional support during lockdown.
This is a really tough time for pretty much everyone, but those with pre existing conditions need help from somewhere. |
Very sorry to hear that, Bloots.
One of the biggest crimes of recent decades has been the erosion of mental health services. Doubly so in an environment where financial and work stresses are on the increase (even before Covid came along). | |
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| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 13:02 - Oct 12 with 1111 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 12:05 - Oct 12 by Guthrum |
Friend of mine went to Lithuania at the start of lockdown (her father was very ill). Her two weeks of quarantine after ariving there amounted to exactly that.
Edit: Tho without the family visits. She was just confined to a hotel room. [Post edited 12 Oct 2020 12:18]
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So you actually think it is a reasonable option to lock people up for two weeks ( in most cases against their will ) because they MIGHT have a virus? What is wrong with voluntary self isolation at home? Aren't people by and large following this guideline?
Besides this would just be a horrible infringement on freedoms and just doesn't work on a number of levels. We know now that the PCR test is not 100% accurate and can pick up old or 'dead' viral fragments, as well as generate false positives.
It has now also been estimated that in excess of 80% of people who test positive don't display any symptoms at all. So, in effect you will be forcibly detaining a number of people who either a) don't even have the virus b) had it so long ago they couldn't possibly still be infectious or c) don't present any symptoms so are not going to be a threat if they are following the guidelines.
Despite continuing hysteria from Government and our media it is a fact that the mortality rate of Covid-19 is getting smaller all the time and that the survival rate is well over 99% and we have ever improving treatment outcomes for those that do get hospitalised.
Any respiratory infection is and always has presented a danger to the small minority of the population that are in the high risk group, we have never before contemplated locking people away in detention centres to avert this risk. It's a ludicrous suggestion. |  | | |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 13:10 - Oct 12 with 1106 views | BlueBadger |
| Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 13:02 - Oct 12 by Harry_Palmer |
So you actually think it is a reasonable option to lock people up for two weeks ( in most cases against their will ) because they MIGHT have a virus? What is wrong with voluntary self isolation at home? Aren't people by and large following this guideline?
Besides this would just be a horrible infringement on freedoms and just doesn't work on a number of levels. We know now that the PCR test is not 100% accurate and can pick up old or 'dead' viral fragments, as well as generate false positives.
It has now also been estimated that in excess of 80% of people who test positive don't display any symptoms at all. So, in effect you will be forcibly detaining a number of people who either a) don't even have the virus b) had it so long ago they couldn't possibly still be infectious or c) don't present any symptoms so are not going to be a threat if they are following the guidelines.
Despite continuing hysteria from Government and our media it is a fact that the mortality rate of Covid-19 is getting smaller all the time and that the survival rate is well over 99% and we have ever improving treatment outcomes for those that do get hospitalised.
Any respiratory infection is and always has presented a danger to the small minority of the population that are in the high risk group, we have never before contemplated locking people away in detention centres to avert this risk. It's a ludicrous suggestion. |
It's also worth pointing out that a 1% mortality rate is ten times that of flu. Which we presently vaccinate for.
The 'long term disability risk' on the other hand, is running at around 10%.
Doing f*ck all about it isn't really an option. | |
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