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You'll never walk alone 12:14 - Oct 12 with 2457 views

This is a hard post for me, but hopefully cathartic, and with TWTD usually helpful.

My father is now 80, he played football [and cricket] regularly into his 40s, and hey he's dad so I look up to him.

However

He has Alzheimer's and vascular dementia.

I live in London, he lives in Ipswich, but this should not be a problem as also in Ipswich are my sister, her two sons, my step brother, my oldest son and my oldest daughter lives in BSE.

When it first became clear he could not look after himself he moved in with my sister, and his house was supposed to be sold and he was going to make lifetime bequests of his will... this never happened. My father made her and her husband his power of attorney for health and financial matters.

My sister left her husband [who tbh I didn't like or trust], got back together with a childhood sweetheart and moved her, my father and boyfriend into his house.

This is the first bump on life's road. When it became clear my father could no longer look after himself I offered to move my family from London to Ipswich, with my wife offering to be a full time carer. My sister opposed this idea and pointed out the legal problems with the house once my father has passed away. Then a few years later does it herself.

But I am an easy going person, my father lives there and she is his carer, though she works a 6 day week, she is there to make sure he takes his meds and attends medical appointments etc.

Although 20 or so years ago I sold him some financial products when I was a financial advisor so undertook a full evaluation of his income and out goings, I separated that in my mind and have not thought too much about it since.
Also I have not withdrawn from the bank of dad this millennium, so its more than 20 years since I went to bank of dad with my hand out for money... and this includes a period where I was unemployed and homeless. These being ongoing situations would just become a continuous drain and would be counter productive relationship wise, so no call to bank of dad. Neither did I ever think of my siblings, or anyone else, withdrawing from bank of dad.

Fast forward to 2020.

Earlier in 2020 my step-brother had called me to complain about my sister "rinsing" dad... he bought furniture for the house he was now living in again, I couldn't see the problem but he felt his inheritance was being spent.

Late September

My sister called me about one of my father's investments, it was clear that it was something that I'd need to see the paper work in order to explain. So I travelled to Ipswich to make a social visit and talk thru the investment, on this visit it became clear I'd need to take a more active interest in his finances as I am now a power of attorney [replacing the now ex-brother in law]. Oh and someone tried to spend Â£300 on his debit card on a gambling website, the bank caught this, froze his card and replaced it.

A few days later I returned to Ipswich to tidy up his finances, and filing, as he'd become a paper hoarder.

The investment my sister contacted me regarding was a unit trust type thing, so stock market based and has, unsurprisingly tanked in the last 12 months. I dug up the paperwork, found the original investment amount and units bought, pointed out that he was in profit on original investment by 10%, had the same number of units as the day he purchased them etc. and pointed out that he either cash in now, or let it "ride" a bit longer hoping the fund managers have invested in covid cures, PPE etc. and fund vale goes up. I also said that if he did let it ride he needed to set a figure at which to cash out. Make a plan and stick to it!!

I hadn't wanted to look at his other paperwork other than to organise it in a file, and consolidate a directory of what he has, what he is paying for, account numbers and telephone numbers.

Whilst doing so I found he had an insurance for his drains, yet had spent Â£100s on a certain well known drain cleaning company.

Whilst doing all this I was ripping up old paperwork i.e. bank statements, trying not to look at them to preserve his privacy... and that's when I noticed something that made me feel unwell and incredibly angry.

Over the period August 2017 to August 2020 a sum of around Â£30,000 had gone from his bank account. Not in one go, but mainly a slow drain peppered with the odd hit of over Â£1,000 [biggest was Â£10k]. I have forensically [I used to be a fraud and money laundering investigator] gone over his statements that I hadn't ripped up, made notes of the excessive sums with a view to discussing with my sister. But there was something else I didn't catch at that time, something that came to me when I woke up days later....

My father's pensions [his own, widowers pension and state pension] come to just under the threshold that a PAYE employee would be a higher rate taxpayer. It's fair to say he has very good pension provision, thanks to working 40 years in a company that had a defined benefits pension, as did his 2nd wife.

I save approximately Â£200 per month, I have one child still at school [last year of 6th form], a wife, cat and a car to support. We pay rent monthly etc.

My father's house is mortgage free, so by my reckoning, he should have this amount left over per month mounting up in his account. He does not run a car, so the amount I pay in tax, insurance and fuel per month... well he should be banking that also. So in Pendejo's lazy maths he should be saving Â£8-10k a year as his expenses are minimal... even if he does have to buy a TV licence now. Extrapolate that over the 3 years that I saw statements for and add it to the capital sum difference... Â£50-60k?

Every few days or so he was withdrawing Â£200 - Â£300 at a time, so when he was going out for a drink he was the only one buying, there are also rumours that he'd lend people money... but given his condition, forgetting and never getting paid back.

Now I know from many investigations, sometimes a cycle starts unintentionally, with a mistake that doesn't get noticed, then a couple of deliberate mistakes that don't get picked up then the "tap" is gradually opened wider and wider as the person gets bolder and bolder.
I had this at work with Chauffeurs over claiming parking expenses and sacked people over what are really quite trivial amounts.

Are you familiar with the fairy tale "The Magic Porridge Pot"?
I think that someone or even some people have been doing this to my father thinking his bank account is the equivalent of the above mentioned pot.

Lockdown and emphasis on using electronic payments have clearly slowed this down in terms of un-auditable outgoings.

Last time I was in Ipswich I rang his bank to order 3 years work of statements as I had destroyed most of them and now needed to go thru the lot. I travelled to Ipswich again last Saturday to go to see the statements, apparently they have not arrived... hmm suspicious. September's had by now arrived and I went through that, looking at large debits and cash withdrawals.

Large withdrawals...
My sister has decided to remodel my dad's garden "as it will improve the resale vale of the house"... Â£4k. I pointed out that this will not benefit dad and I really don't care about an increased value as the most valuable thing in the house is my [our!!] dad. So there was a withdrawal for that.
Of the sums that have been paid out over the years - he's bought one of my nephews 2 cars and paid his insurance, he's bought my step-brother a car, which was supposed to be partially for taking dad out. etc.
All of which fair enough - he is a generous man if he wants to take care of his family, no problem.

Back to September's statement - over Â£700 paid out to Amazon over a number of debits and one to EE for almost Â£200. Let's call it Â£900. Dad does not have a computer, lap top, tablet or smartphone... I'm sure via family members he has probably bought stuff from Amazon... which keeps card details, and for those "close" to him CV code not exactly difficult to obtain.

I was all for reporting this to the bank by phone on Saturday afternoon, my sister said not to worry right now as she will take him to the bank today. I have called her this morning to remind her AND instruct her to report this to the police. [Along with the attempt to take Â£300 that the bank stopped]

But consider this... my sister's business got hit hard by lock down [catering / events], her boyfriend got violently assaulted, ended up in Addenbrooks, and has not worked for 10 months. One of my nephews has been in and out of work this year.

I have to conclude that those that are closest to him, geographically, are those who are leeching from him.

This is the man that without whom they would not be born, a man who was stable [one employer for 40 years], 2nd marriage lasted 30 years to death did they park, rarely swore, never hit us, and even when he got a NIP a few years ago probably accepted on behalf of someone else [speeding A12? Near Chantry Park].
Ok he had faults - being selfish I could say he needed to drive me on more as a teenager, needed to be pushier both in terms of education and sports... bit that's as far as I could go to find negatives.

What the f**k do I do? [semi rhetorical, if you've got this far, well done and feel free to contribute]

The more I think about it, the angrier I get.

I will be travelling to Ipswich again this weekend to face my sister when I will enquire as to what has been done i.e. reporting to the bank and police. To see if I can see anything body language wise that will concern me.

She's blaming her ex-husband [unexplained Â£5k cheque paid to him August 2017] and one of her sons, whom I have mentioned above [Â£6k for a BMW June 2020] and who is suspected of stealing our grand father's medals and selling them to buy drugs [not to forget my mum's suspicions he stole from her].

But now I'm thinking it's her.

Finally, years ago I told my father that if he wanted to sell his house, go to Vegas with his profits and gamble it all on one spin of the roulette wheel that was ok with me. If he wanted to get a Thai bride and go shack up over there, here, where ever that's fine. This weekend to him and my sister I have stated that if he is gifting any family member or friend that's also fine, but because his memory is no good he needs to make notes, and they need to sign the note. I really don't care if he WILLINGLY gives every penny away.

What I won't stand for is people he should be able to trust, at this vulnerable stage of his life, taking the pish.

I feel a little bit better getting that out.

	uberima fides
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You'll never walk alone on 13:36 - Oct 12 with 679 views

Ryorry

You'll never walk alone on 13:28 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue

This is super important. It's important those closest to him are set up ready to take control when he no longer can. The alternative can be that social services will do it for him via one of their lawyers. It's a money making scheme for them and one you don't want to be caught in, as you'll all have no legal right to know what's going on with any of his finances. That ended up happening to my gran and it was grim - caused all sorts of problems, including them selling her house for peanuts via auction when nobody in the family, including her wanted it sold.

Jeez - sorry to hear that Swansea.


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You'll never walk alone on 14:05 - Oct 12 with 661 views

Basuco

You'll never walk alone on 12:36 - Oct 12 by Pendejo
When I go up this next weekend I am going to insist on a family conference, be it in person or by zoom and will also hand deliver a letter to each "stakeholder" outlining what I've typed here. My sister and I both hold PoA but it isn't joint. You raise an exceptionally good point. Though again the method and means of rinsing still available to all...

Tell everyone at the family meeting you will report the matter with the evidence to the office of public guardian, it may well not give you the outcome you may want but it will give a big shock to them when the process starts and should limit future removal of monies. BTW if the POA has been activated your Farther should have no access to his account, or that is what I was told by a bank.

You'll never walk alone on 14:13 - Oct 12 with 664 views

Ryorry

Pendejo, you're probably aware, but just in case not - this forum and all its posts can be seen by any member of the public, you don't have to be a member or logged in to read it.


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You'll never walk alone on 14:17 - Oct 12 with 659 views

PJH

So sorry to read that.

My mum is 94 coming up to 95 and her short term memory is now absolutely shot.

My sister and I both live within about half a mile of her, mum lives on her own, and we both see her every day at staggered times to basically make sure that she takes her tablets and that she eats something.

Both my sister and I would feel guilty if we short changed our mum by a 1p-literally-and we could have/could be fleecing her. Obviously not everyone treats their relatives as my sister and I do.

We are now looking at getting Power Of Attorney over her finances although in reality we have been looking after them for some time-in our case literally looking after them.

She trusts us and in our case she is right to do so.

I even asked her a few days ago if she trusted us because I took her Debit Card so that I could pay for her TV Licence online-I was pleased that she said that she did trust us but I did tell her that there are people about that would not be as honest as us.

None of this helps you in any way I am afraid but your sad story confirmed to me what I already knew, not everyone behaves like my sister and I (and you) do when getting near someone else's finances.

You'll never walk alone on 14:33 - Oct 12 with 632 views

Ryorry

You'll never walk alone on 14:17 - Oct 12 by PJH

Was going to say - for all the sorry stories on this thread, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are thoroughly decent & honest & it'd hurt them to the bone to even think about defrauding anyone, let alone their nearest & dearest.

Also think most people, if they did fill up their own tanks at a service station, borrowed a tenner off their rellie's/employers' card when out shopping for them or whatever, would be so uncomfortable with it on their minds that they'd be desperate to fess up/explain asap.


Poll:	Town's most cultured left foot ever?

You'll never walk alone on 14:53 - Oct 12 with 623 views

PJH

You'll never walk alone on 14:33 - Oct 12 by Ryorry

Is it too late to mention something from about 40 years ago...?

Don't think I will, do not know who is reading this.

Nothing to do with a relative by the way.

You'll never walk alone on 15:13 - Oct 12 with 614 views

Ryorry

You'll never walk alone on 14:53 - Oct 12 by PJH
Is it too late to mention something from about 40 years ago...? Don't think I will, do not know who is reading this. Nothing to do with a relative by the way.

I always did wonder what happened to that book of 1st class stamps that had disppeared from my pocket after we'd sat together at Elland Rd ...


Poll:	Town's most cultured left foot ever?

You'll never walk alone on 15:15 - Oct 12 with 613 views

PJH

You'll never walk alone on 15:13 - Oct 12 by Ryorry
I always did wonder what happened to that book of 1st class stamps that had disppeared from my pocket after we'd sat together at Elland Rd ...

That was not about 40 years ago-anyway my wife is in charge of getting books of stamps although usually 2nd class.

You'll never walk alone on 15:22 - Oct 12 with 604 views

bluelagos

You'll never walk alone on 14:13 - Oct 12 by Ryorry
Pendejo, you're probably aware, but just in case not - this forum and all its posts can be seen by any member of the public, you don't have to be a member or logged in to read it.

Yep. As frustrating as it sounds, not sure this is the right place for the content tbh.

Hope it works out for the OP whatever he decides to do.

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You'll never walk alone on 16:33 - Oct 12 with 581 views

Mullet

I read this at lunch but couldn't reply. It's an awful scenario.

I know of a couple of similar instances and neither were resolved very well at all (sorry). i would suggest that even though it's family, if they'v acted illegally or even just immorally and left you short, you should get legal advice.

It's horrible to think about, but it sounds like your sister hasn't thought about anyone but herself and her own so should expect the same back. A professional appraisal will be a wise investment and if she's legit, nothing to hide innit.

Hope you can get it sorted though, it's horrible that.

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You'll never walk alone on 16:39 - Oct 12 with 582 views

DebsyAngel

Hate to say it, but sounds like it's your sister leeching off him, and reading your story has made me incredibly sad and angry. It's hard to have to turn on a member of your own family, but in this case, it has to be done - for your poor father and for you. I wish you good luck and so hope that you can sort this quickly.

You'll never walk alone on 16:39 - Oct 12 with 580 views

uefacup81

If your sister is claiming that it was all related to her ex, then I would suggest you call her bluff and tell her you'll be getting the police involved.

That'll be quickest way to find out the truth of the matter.

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You'll never walk alone on 00:16 - Oct 13 with 479 views

Pendejo

You'll never walk alone on 14:13 - Oct 12 by Ryorry
Pendejo, you're probably aware, but just in case not - this forum and all its posts can be seen by any member of the public, you don't have to be a member or logged in to read it.

Yep, thought ramifications they before posting.

There's only a handful of people in Ipswich who know who "Pendejo" is, and only one of them knows my father by sight / name, none of them will know my sister.

if the full text happened to be shown to her, so what, there's nothing here that hasn't now been discussed with her, including my suspicions.

	uberima fides
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You'll never walk alone on 02:44 - Oct 13 with 463 views

jeera

You'll never walk alone on 12:27 - Oct 12 by itfcjoe

Sorry to read that pendejo, money does terrible things to families even when it should be relatively simple.

Realistically all you can really look to be doing is locking it down from now, and paying a closer interest - what is gone has gone and without big family fall outs there is very little that can be done without effectively accusing your sister of rinsing him, if she has she has no doubt justified it in her own head and 'deserves it'.

Best of luck with it all

Sorry to read this, it doesn't sound good at all.

Do stand your ground and don't be fobbed off.

You have the info so don't be afraid of demanding answers and explanations.

Threaten legal action if it comes to it. Someone's taking the piss and needs to be held to account.

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You'll never walk alone on 09:29 - Oct 13 with 417 views

Kropotkin123

I don't really have anything constructive to offer for you that others haven't already said, or you haven't already done. Perhaps one thing would be to not get too hung up on what he has already lost and concentrate your time and effort on ensuring all things going forward are done in the right way.

Captain Hindsight would of course have a great time with this, but you already know that.

One thing I would suggest, which is a hindsight thing, mainly for the benefit of others who will one day have the same starting point, is that the primary care giver sets up a private company to give care. They can then get tax breaks on items that they need to provide care and an agreed amount of money for opportunity cost, if you agree. I think this separation between their money your Dad's money becomes more distinct and their invested time becomes formally recognised. Maybe some have some counter arguements to this suggestion?

It's an awful situation and I hope you can have an outcome that is good for your father and consequently you.

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You'll never walk alone on 14:52 - Oct 13 with 367 views

TRUE_BLUE123

Flipping heck, tough read that pendejo.

Before my current Job I worked in the social care sector and saw far too many cases like this, breaks my heart. I think what you said about reading your sisters body language is interesting, I don't know about you but I can tell by my families faces if what they are saying is accurate.

I wish you all the best and hopefully you get an outcome which is full and reparable

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