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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel 16:46 - Nov 23 with 5849 viewsElderGrizzly

Which builds on discussions we were having over the last few weeks on countries doing the same. Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Japan and the USA (under Biden) will be some of the first to insist on the vaccine before you are let in.

USA will tie it to ESTAs.



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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 08:43 - Nov 24 with 1339 viewsbluelagos

So some developments on the news programmes this morning. Grant Schapps announced that there would soon be an alternative to the 14 quarantine period. Arrivals would now quarantine for 5 days, take a test and if clear be free to carry on as normal. Test would be at their expense.

Whether such a system could compliment or replace a vaccine passport scheme (if it were adopted) have no idea. But for travel before vaccines this will soon be available post Dec 15th.

One issue with the idea of vaccine passports for travel in the future is that some people can not take them due to them being allergic and/or not healthy enough to risk it. Are we to then ban them from travel? Or would they get a doctors note/waiver?

Guess this will develop over time...

Poll: This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 08:55 - Nov 24 with 1321 viewsbluelagos

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:00 - Nov 24 by mikeybloo88

I'm all for some sort of proof of vaccination...but won't people just get fakes or start lending them to their mates if it's just a simple piece of paper? Almost needs to be done with passport level of security built in..


So the Yellow fever thingy records your name and passport number, so no issues there around lending them to someone else.

Could it be faked? Well I do know of expats in Nigeria, who had been vaccinated but subsequently lost their booklets, simply buying new ones so yeah, they could be faked. But if someone is going to the trouble of sourcing a fake - it's still hassle and a cost and you risk you get rumbled, so a lot easier to just get the jab.

If the risk of fake docs is considered high, I guess they go down the route of electronic ones.

Poll: This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:01 - Nov 24 with 1299 viewshype313

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 08:55 - Nov 24 by bluelagos

So the Yellow fever thingy records your name and passport number, so no issues there around lending them to someone else.

Could it be faked? Well I do know of expats in Nigeria, who had been vaccinated but subsequently lost their booklets, simply buying new ones so yeah, they could be faked. But if someone is going to the trouble of sourcing a fake - it's still hassle and a cost and you risk you get rumbled, so a lot easier to just get the jab.

If the risk of fake docs is considered high, I guess they go down the route of electronic ones.


Also, it's not like borrowing your mates driving licence back in the day to get into Hollywoods on a Thursday night, the fines will be severe if you are found to have falsified documents.

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:09 - Nov 24 with 1279 viewsbluelagos

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


Won't comment on your first paragraphs as you seem to include unneeded digs at a well respected and always polite poster. Disagree with him by all means, (And I have) but I think your tone was uncalled for myself.

Ref your comment
"The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism."

I have some sympathy for your argument. We are indeed losing personal freedoms a plenty and I feel very uncomfortable with many aspects if looked at on there own.

But there is a context here, namely that we are facing a virus that will, if unchecked, kill many many people. It has killed many many people. So sadly we have to adapt and yes, lose our freedoms for a short period of time. It's horrible and smells of authoritarianism, absolutely. But sometimes losing our freedoms is what is needed.

I think the fact that Shami Chakrabarti signed up to the laws says a lot. As a left wing libertarian and she was content to judge that the laws, with their limited times, were appropriate. So on balance I'll go along with her and other left wing libertarians that this is a rare occasion where our freedoms are less important than our public health.

I say all that believing absolutely that the threat is real and not being exaggerated and that we have a duty to look out for one another. You may of course have a different opinion.

Poll: This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:15 - Nov 24 with 1272 viewsbluelagos

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:01 - Nov 24 by hype313

Also, it's not like borrowing your mates driving licence back in the day to get into Hollywoods on a Thursday night, the fines will be severe if you are found to have falsified documents.


Yeah

Doorman: So what's your date of birth?
Lagos: 12th June 1987
Doorman: Postcode?
Lagos: CM7 6RD
Doorman: OK, one more, your middle name?
Lagos: Errrr (Look at mates for help)
Doorman: Do one you cheeky fcker.

Poll: This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:18 - Nov 24 with 1263 viewshype313

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:15 - Nov 24 by bluelagos

Yeah

Doorman: So what's your date of birth?
Lagos: 12th June 1987
Doorman: Postcode?
Lagos: CM7 6RD
Doorman: OK, one more, your middle name?
Lagos: Errrr (Look at mates for help)
Doorman: Do one you cheeky fcker.


Mine was briefer than that once in Colchester.

Doorman: DOB?
Me: 15th of the err 3rd errr....
Doorman: Sorry sonny Jim.
Me: Ok

Drove back to Ipswich with tail between my legs, to then try Hollywoods on the over 25's night and walked straight in...

Poll: Simpson - Keep, Sell or Loan

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:34 - Nov 24 with 1254 viewsStokieBlue

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:09 - Nov 24 by bluelagos

Won't comment on your first paragraphs as you seem to include unneeded digs at a well respected and always polite poster. Disagree with him by all means, (And I have) but I think your tone was uncalled for myself.

Ref your comment
"The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism."

I have some sympathy for your argument. We are indeed losing personal freedoms a plenty and I feel very uncomfortable with many aspects if looked at on there own.

But there is a context here, namely that we are facing a virus that will, if unchecked, kill many many people. It has killed many many people. So sadly we have to adapt and yes, lose our freedoms for a short period of time. It's horrible and smells of authoritarianism, absolutely. But sometimes losing our freedoms is what is needed.

I think the fact that Shami Chakrabarti signed up to the laws says a lot. As a left wing libertarian and she was content to judge that the laws, with their limited times, were appropriate. So on balance I'll go along with her and other left wing libertarians that this is a rare occasion where our freedoms are less important than our public health.

I say all that believing absolutely that the threat is real and not being exaggerated and that we have a duty to look out for one another. You may of course have a different opinion.


A number of posters have made essentially the same points as me but he tends to only reply to mine. I believe we had a disagreement over lockdown and perhaps he is unhappy about that.

Hopefully we can get over that, I certainly don't want an animosity.

SB
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 9:59]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:46 - Nov 24 with 1247 viewsStokieBlue

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


It's not a reward for following the status quo. You will get herd immunity from others taking whatever small risk is there because you aren't willing to. Why shouldn't those people be allowed more personal freedoms given they aren't a risk to others but you may be? Unless I have misunderstood your position on the vaccine and you can clarify?

It's also a fairly selfless act to get vaccinated for any disease or virus as you are indirectly helping others.

It's not authoritarianism though. If you feel it is have you previously taken issue with governments which already require vaccinations to enter their borders?

Can you explain what personal freedom is being lost with regards to requiring a vaccination to travel to some destinations? Nobody is forcing you to do anything. All that may happen is that countries will determine who is allowed through their borders. It has always been that way, nothing specific has changed.

SB
[Post edited 24 Nov 2020 11:14]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 10:00 - Nov 24 with 1226 viewsfooters

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


Amazing, I could actually see you angrily thumbing a thesaurus to write this post.

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 10:02 - Nov 24 with 1221 viewsKeno

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 10:00 - Nov 24 by footers

Amazing, I could actually see you angrily thumbing a thesaurus to write this post.


euphemism of the "thumbing a thesaurus"

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 11:18 - Nov 24 with 1172 viewsSpruceMoose

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


This is the neck beardiest post I've read in a while.

Genuinely arftastic.

Pronouns: He/Him/His. "Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 11:23 - Nov 24 with 1157 viewsTheTrueBlue1878

Has to be done. Makes sense.

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 14:23 - Nov 24 with 1090 viewsIPS_wich

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 08:43 - Nov 24 by bluelagos

So some developments on the news programmes this morning. Grant Schapps announced that there would soon be an alternative to the 14 quarantine period. Arrivals would now quarantine for 5 days, take a test and if clear be free to carry on as normal. Test would be at their expense.

Whether such a system could compliment or replace a vaccine passport scheme (if it were adopted) have no idea. But for travel before vaccines this will soon be available post Dec 15th.

One issue with the idea of vaccine passports for travel in the future is that some people can not take them due to them being allergic and/or not healthy enough to risk it. Are we to then ban them from travel? Or would they get a doctors note/waiver?

Guess this will develop over time...


It won’t replace the need for a vaccine passport. The Australian government have come out today to say that they would not mandate that airlines refuse to fly people who haven’t had the vaccine. Qantas have responded by saying no, it would be airline policy to refuse passengers who have not had the vaccine, because they wouldn’t take the risk of being sued if they were the centre of an infection being transmitted. The Qantas CEO said many major airlines had already indicated they would adopt the same policy.
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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 14:28 - Nov 24 with 1082 viewsNewcyBlue

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


It’s evident that you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 15:26 - Nov 24 with 1063 viewsDyland

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 07:37 - Nov 24 by Keaneish

“Taking the risk for me?”

There’s an air of arrogant indignation about this which is as lamentable as it is laughable. The notion that someone should be rewarded for following the status quo as it’s some kind of self sacrifice is ridiculous; that is, if I’ve understood you right.

You seem to take information spoon fed to you by Government, Corporations or Royal Charter Institutions and pedal them as fact. The language you use tows the line with main stream media and public perception, no doubt common discourse in Clissold’s Latte drinking micro bubble but the reality is, it’s really not very scary out there. Those opting to take the vaccine really aren’t martyrs; I’d actually say they’re a product of fear but each to their own.

As for the point about Authoritarianism labelled “nonsense” by yourself, a phrase you typically like to police others with, I fail to see how it isn’t. The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism. It’s through a different lens and in relation to the post, its actually corporatocratic, which I find far more troublesome and worrying on a global level than a pandemic.


The bitter irony in your ill articulated rant would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 15:33 - Nov 24 with 1055 viewsDyland

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 09:09 - Nov 24 by bluelagos

Won't comment on your first paragraphs as you seem to include unneeded digs at a well respected and always polite poster. Disagree with him by all means, (And I have) but I think your tone was uncalled for myself.

Ref your comment
"The enforcement of strict obedience at the expense of personal freedom is exactly what’s happening here - that is the very definition of authoritarianism."

I have some sympathy for your argument. We are indeed losing personal freedoms a plenty and I feel very uncomfortable with many aspects if looked at on there own.

But there is a context here, namely that we are facing a virus that will, if unchecked, kill many many people. It has killed many many people. So sadly we have to adapt and yes, lose our freedoms for a short period of time. It's horrible and smells of authoritarianism, absolutely. But sometimes losing our freedoms is what is needed.

I think the fact that Shami Chakrabarti signed up to the laws says a lot. As a left wing libertarian and she was content to judge that the laws, with their limited times, were appropriate. So on balance I'll go along with her and other left wing libertarians that this is a rare occasion where our freedoms are less important than our public health.

I say all that believing absolutely that the threat is real and not being exaggerated and that we have a duty to look out for one another. You may of course have a different opinion.


But he's talking about the freedom of choice whether to be vaccinated (against CV19) or not. The irony being of course that a vaguely successful vaccine taken up by the vast majority has a good chance of halting the current curtailment of our fundamental freedoms.

I'm seeing a general stance against big pharma and corporate lobbying. Which is fine. But just because it sucks and feels unfair that medicine is essentially driven by money, and people will get rich and bend the rules, and lie sometimes, and worse, doesn't mean no good comes from it (e.g. vaccines).

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Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 16:53 - Nov 24 with 1023 viewsCotty

Qantas saying no vaccine, no travel on 16:59 - Nov 23 by BloomBlue

I wasn't comparing CV to Flu I was asking a general question if they would be giving out a certificate after having the vaccine as the NHS currently don't for other vaccines. It was general question stop getting so defensive


They already do for children (small red book)
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