| Just a matter of time I imagine.... 15:57 - Nov 30 with 2675 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
....until vaccination proof is used to bring in a national ID card. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:55 - Nov 30 with 1106 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:37 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
I don't think the data volunteered by people on FB is really comparable. An ID card really is a centralised place to put information the government already has on you. Do other countries have the issues you are highlighting?
Most peoples details are already in the private sector, every time one books a flight the passport information is entered into their system as will be the C19 vaccination record when the time comes.
As I said to DBS, I'm not saying we should have one, just it doesn't seem to be the big deal many think it is and many other countries comparable to the UK have them.
SB |
I love the notion that this data is 'volunteered'.
Having tried multiple times to stop Google collecting my data and failed I am thrilled to learn that I am volunteering it. | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:58 - Nov 30 with 1102 views | wkj |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:49 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
How is it one sided on who benefits?
Having a standardised way to identify someone and to collate records could have benefits for lots of things.
Just seems to me that the OP feeds into the conspiratorial narrative that C19 is in some form "designed" to force these things on us. That is incredibly unhelpful in my opinion. As far as I am aware nobody in government has mentioned an ID card around vaccinations so putting it out there feeds the conspiracy narrative.
SB |
My arguments are a little departed from the C19 element. If the UK rolls out a mandatory national ID card system with photographic identification - they have created a full national database of biometric data. With that, comes the potential for facial recognition on a large scale, with that comes private vendors being bought in with potential unmitigated access to the system.
A C19 vaccination rollout should be perfectly achievable with what they already have in place, but it does open the door for people to be more willing to create a national ID card system, which benefits the government more than us. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:00 - Nov 30 with 1105 views | MattinLondon |
I doubt it very much. Governments have tried to introduce ID Cards citing terrorism prevention but have failed.
If companies require proof that the individual has had the vaccination for (example) international flying then that’ll be down to them. But I doubt very much whether this government will try to introduce ID cards.
For the record, I have no issue at all with ID cards. |  | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:04 - Nov 30 with 1085 views | StokieBlue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:55 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I love the notion that this data is 'volunteered'.
Having tried multiple times to stop Google collecting my data and failed I am thrilled to learn that I am volunteering it. |
It's all volunteered. You agree to the terms and conditions when you agree to use their services. Same with FB and pretty much any other supplier.
Don't have a Google account or use any of their services if it bothers you, that is your right.
SB |  | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:08 - Nov 30 with 1075 views | StokieBlue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:58 - Nov 30 by wkj |
My arguments are a little departed from the C19 element. If the UK rolls out a mandatory national ID card system with photographic identification - they have created a full national database of biometric data. With that, comes the potential for facial recognition on a large scale, with that comes private vendors being bought in with potential unmitigated access to the system.
A C19 vaccination rollout should be perfectly achievable with what they already have in place, but it does open the door for people to be more willing to create a national ID card system, which benefits the government more than us. |
I'll reply in reverse order.
A C19 vaccination rollout should be perfectly achievable with what they already have in place, but it does open the door for people to be more willing to create a national ID card system, which benefits the government more than us.
Nobody has said there will be an ID card involved in the roll-out of the vaccine have they? It's just DBS and conspiracy theorists unless I am mistaken. I agree it's not really needed although I do think it'll have to be centrally stored in electronic format to link up with thinks like ESTA's for the US.
My arguments are a little departed from the C19 element. If the UK rolls out a mandatory national ID card system with photographic identification - they have created a full national database of biometric data. With that, comes the potential for facial recognition on a large scale, with that comes private vendors being bought in with potential unmitigated access to the system.
All this exists already. The current passport is biometric and facial recognition is used every time you use an eGate at the airport.
Private vendors usually have to use the data anonymised but that could be an issue as you say. Once again though it would have been an issue with the vendor who made the eGate software but there wasn't an outcry (that I remember) at the time.
SB | | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:09 - Nov 30 with 1081 views | factual_blue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:32 - Nov 30 by bluelagos |
So there should be no need for another one.
If we decide to have ways of "encouraging" people to vaccinate (E.G. You need proof to get on a plane) then there should be no need to set up anything more than a booklet record. |
You'll be tracked by the microchip in the vaccine you'll be forced to have. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:12 - Nov 30 with 1063 views | factual_blue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:02 - Nov 30 by wkj |
We are knocking on that door. My fear is also very real around the potential harvesting and formulation of a biometric database by a foreign company in the private sector (see Iceland).
Whilst the concept of Track and Trace is perfect, I have no desire to participate in the scheme and have permanently self isolated this year since about midway through the spring lockdown.
The people in charge have no clue, and I am not letting them gamble with my information. |
Why would a dodgy supermarket want my biometric data? | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:14 - Nov 30 with 1062 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:49 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
How is it one sided on who benefits?
Having a standardised way to identify someone and to collate records could have benefits for lots of things.
Just seems to me that the OP feeds into the conspiratorial narrative that C19 is in some form "designed" to force these things on us. That is incredibly unhelpful in my opinion. As far as I am aware nobody in government has mentioned an ID card around vaccinations so putting it out there feeds the conspiracy narrative.
SB |
"Just seems to me that the OP feeds into the conspiratorial narrative that C19 is in some form "designed" to force these things on us."
Expect to hear from my solicitor! | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:17 - Nov 30 with 1055 views | Keno |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:32 - Nov 30 by bluelagos |
So there should be no need for another one.
If we decide to have ways of "encouraging" people to vaccinate (E.G. You need proof to get on a plane) then there should be no need to set up anything more than a booklet record. |
Or if you have two there is no issue another one?
The easiesr way to sort this is that anyone who doesnt want the vaccine has a "I" tattoo'd to their forehead |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:18 - Nov 30 with 1051 views | StokieBlue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:14 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"Just seems to me that the OP feeds into the conspiratorial narrative that C19 is in some form "designed" to force these things on us."
Expect to hear from my solicitor! |
Just my feelings on your post :).
SB | | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:30 - Nov 30 with 1032 views | wkj |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:08 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
I'll reply in reverse order.
A C19 vaccination rollout should be perfectly achievable with what they already have in place, but it does open the door for people to be more willing to create a national ID card system, which benefits the government more than us.
Nobody has said there will be an ID card involved in the roll-out of the vaccine have they? It's just DBS and conspiracy theorists unless I am mistaken. I agree it's not really needed although I do think it'll have to be centrally stored in electronic format to link up with thinks like ESTA's for the US.
My arguments are a little departed from the C19 element. If the UK rolls out a mandatory national ID card system with photographic identification - they have created a full national database of biometric data. With that, comes the potential for facial recognition on a large scale, with that comes private vendors being bought in with potential unmitigated access to the system.
All this exists already. The current passport is biometric and facial recognition is used every time you use an eGate at the airport.
Private vendors usually have to use the data anonymised but that could be an issue as you say. Once again though it would have been an issue with the vendor who made the eGate software but there wasn't an outcry (that I remember) at the time.
SB |
I am not one to be suckered into conspiracies, as well you probably know. Though there can not be any doubt that governments and businesses can use disasters and emergencies to sneak through changes while marketing benefits to the end user, when in reality the bulk of the benefits are to the curator. (With transparency of this tucked away in the finer print, if at all.)
The roll-out of a vaccination is a scenario where by such a system could be introduced, although the chances of this actually happening with C19 does seem unlikely.
The passport does indeed exist, but the system isn't mandatory to opt in to, if people decide to not travel that is. There in lies the benefit to the end user, the ability to travel.
A mandatory (assumption on my part) national ID card system would be quite different, especially if facial recognition then becomes as routine as CCTV currently is.
Anonymised data is a murky grey area for biometric records as there are plenty of valid arguments around what qualifies as anonymous when dealing data that is extremely unique, although it does seem we both see the potential for problems in that regard.
If we lived in a country where we could guarantee those in charge operated with transparency and strong ethics, I would be less worried. However, as we saw with Cambridge-Analytica, the stake holders in the EU referendum mutated and manipulated as much as they could to achieve their goals. This culture of scummy practice then carried over into the most recent general election where it was all about who could take the biggest dump on their political opponents. The public invested in this and were manipulated into tribalism - made largely possible by politicians using what they know about us to manipulate a narrative.
With the track record of politics in light of the above, I do not trust the government to use biometric data responsibly - so not so much a conspiracy theory on my end, but rather genuine concerns on a poor and proven track record of governments using our data poorly. [Post edited 30 Nov 2020 17:34]
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:31 - Nov 30 with 1032 views | DanTheMan |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:55 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I love the notion that this data is 'volunteered'.
Having tried multiple times to stop Google collecting my data and failed I am thrilled to learn that I am volunteering it. |
Some friendly advice, if you don't want Google to have your data, do not use any of their products. The reason the vast majority are free is because you pay in data. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:52 - Nov 30 with 1007 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:31 - Nov 30 by DanTheMan |
Some friendly advice, if you don't want Google to have your data, do not use any of their products. The reason the vast majority are free is because you pay in data. |
I try not to, but....
It is just that thing where they say you can opt out of targeted ads and such which seems to take you around in circles and never allow you to confirm the opt out but all roads lead to 'agree and proceed.' | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:03 - Nov 30 with 1000 views | footers |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:52 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I try not to, but....
It is just that thing where they say you can opt out of targeted ads and such which seems to take you around in circles and never allow you to confirm the opt out but all roads lead to 'agree and proceed.' |
Firefox with DisconnectMe and AdBlock, bro. And DuckDuckGo for search.
Whitelisted for TWTD though, natch.
Although the bloody iPhone wiretap stuff is awful. I was talking to a friend about a certain brand a few weeks back. Hour after she gets an ad about that company! Barstewards. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:24 - Nov 30 with 982 views | factual_blue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:06 - Nov 30 by BlueBadger |
You hold 'em, I'll make like a seal. |
That's more than enough information about your bedroom shenanigans. | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:36 - Nov 30 with 978 views | BarcaBlue |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:03 - Nov 30 by footers |
Firefox with DisconnectMe and AdBlock, bro. And DuckDuckGo for search.
Whitelisted for TWTD though, natch.
Although the bloody iPhone wiretap stuff is awful. I was talking to a friend about a certain brand a few weeks back. Hour after she gets an ad about that company! Barstewards. |
I was chatting to a guy today and he showed me a business app on his phone. I'd never heard of it before but when I got home and checked my instagram account, the first ad I saw was for that same app.
I've had an identity card in Spain for over 30 years. It used to be the case that you could be fined for not having it on you. That changed a while back and is now just an essential for any of the mindless bureauocracy you're unlucky to have to deal with.
Vaccinations are apparently starting here in January, initially at care homes and hospitals. Having an id should make things easier but the inevitable form filling, visiting several different locations before finding the right one and not having a photocopy (and original) of your mother-in-law's dental records means I should get mine when I'm admitted to a care home. |  | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:51 - Nov 30 with 966 views | Pendejo |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:29 - Nov 30 by Keno |
You already have at least 2 forms of national ID |
Genuine question: What are they? |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:53 - Nov 30 with 967 views | ghostofescobar |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:30 - Nov 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Here's a crazy thought for you...let's take a random country and call it'The Land of the Free' and they have an ID card introduced for all sorts of cuddly nice beneficial reasons but one day they vote in a racist sociopathic leader backed by mentalist armed militias who now have access to all they could possibly want to know about everybody!
Nah that sh1t could never happen. |
Wake up: “they” already know everything about us. Every time you go online, every purchase you make, what you watch, where you go, if you have voice activated stuff, then “they” have even more info on you. I’m not a conspiracy nut either, it’s just fact. “They” don’t need anything from an ID card system, it wouldn’t add anything. It’s like nutters going on about the vaccine being some conspiracy. I just don’t get how you can be worried about a hypothetical ID card system, or others worried about vaccines, when we have already sleep walked into the current data harvesting situation. |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:55 - Nov 30 with 960 views | footers |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:53 - Nov 30 by ghostofescobar |
Wake up: “they” already know everything about us. Every time you go online, every purchase you make, what you watch, where you go, if you have voice activated stuff, then “they” have even more info on you. I’m not a conspiracy nut either, it’s just fact. “They” don’t need anything from an ID card system, it wouldn’t add anything. It’s like nutters going on about the vaccine being some conspiracy. I just don’t get how you can be worried about a hypothetical ID card system, or others worried about vaccines, when we have already sleep walked into the current data harvesting situation. |
Indeed.
Individual, personal data on its own is not what they're after anyway; the only true value they can derive from such data is mainly from massive datasets, which again something like this would probably be.
No one is going to nose through tens of millions of names to find one individual to target. It's pointless. | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:57 - Nov 30 with 956 views | MattinLondon |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:51 - Nov 30 by Pendejo |
Genuine question: What are they? |
Passport and Driving Licence. | | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 19:01 - Nov 30 with 946 views | Keno |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 18:51 - Nov 30 by Pendejo |
Genuine question: What are they? |
Driving license
Passport | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 19:21 - Nov 30 with 926 views | charlie_blue |
think that ship has long sailed. Supermarkets, social media companies know more about me than I can remember. Seriously, I think its a shoo in if you want to go in a pub or travel anywhere, have a job etc. It will also be sold as a hindrance to benefit fraud and immigration and outsourced just like test and trace. |  | | |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 19:29 - Nov 30 with 917 views | Keaneish |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:12 - Nov 30 by bluelagos |
The answer surely is, it doesn't.
I think Bankster's concern would be if ministers went down the route of trying to introduce a standard card with your ID (and status) on it, then it would become a defacto ID card.
Don't forget previous tory governments have flirted with the idea, indeed Thatcher's government legislated to bring in ID cards for football fans. |
The National Identity Register was in force under John Major. It was eventually scraped but prior to this, it sanctioned the ability to hold lots of amounts of data against an ID card (not sure if this was ever physically created or not). I think human rights intervened and that was that. It will come back though and pandemic fear and confusion is the perfect smokescreen to implement it.
We could run a sweepstake to see how long it is before mainstream media switch their, “you risk infecting others” message to “be known to be safe”. It won’t be long... |  |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 19:42 - Nov 30 with 903 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 17:18 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
Just my feelings on your post :).
SB |
'Opinions,' 'feelings' ...whatever next! | |
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| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 20:02 - Nov 30 with 891 views | longtimefan |
| Just a matter of time I imagine.... on 16:18 - Nov 30 by StokieBlue |
What are your specific issues with a national ID card?
It's hardly an outlier, lots of countries have them, Germany and France two of the closest examples.
I think Badgers response is because you are slowly but surely drifting into conspiracy territory with each post. Perhaps it's not intentional but it's the way it comes across and I believe the way it reads to many posters.
SB [Post edited 30 Nov 2020 16:19]
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Indeed. My German work colleague finds it extraordinary that we are not required to carry ID whenever out of our houses as they are supposed to do. | | | |
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