| "Oven-ready" - on 12:25 - Dec 13 with 1373 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 10:15 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
From someone who campaigned / was vocal for Brexit - that is a pretty pathetic comment Glassers.
And not only did you campaign for Brexit, if memory serves me right you also argued against our remaining in the single market after the vote - an obvious compromise at the time.
But hey, let's blame everyone else for what was entirely predictable. |
It's pathetic to want both sides to compromise in the interests of getting a deal that is mutually beneficial?
It's pathetic to ask remainers and leavers, and yes I voted leave, to only see the fault in their opponent's negotiating strategy and stance?
and FYI, I advocated a Brexit with a deal. I've never once advocated NO DEAL. Not once.
I wish I hadn't. But I did and I'm not trying to distance myself from the decision I made. I just made the wrong call with the best of intentions. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:27 - Dec 13 with 1301 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:24 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
What’s your definition of a Soft Brexit? I don’t remember you pitching that at all. |
it's what we would have got if people hadn't played parliamentary games to undermine theresa may. that went well. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:32 - Dec 13 with 1335 views | footers |
Brexit isn't a very good idea and Ipswich aren't very good at football.
This is my incisive analysis of proceedings this week. And probably most weeks. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:36 - Dec 13 with 1325 views | vapour_trail |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:24 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
What’s your definition of a Soft Brexit? I don’t remember you pitching that at all. |
He didn’t. He’s fundamentally dishonest. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:38 - Dec 13 with 1315 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:25 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
It's pathetic to want both sides to compromise in the interests of getting a deal that is mutually beneficial?
It's pathetic to ask remainers and leavers, and yes I voted leave, to only see the fault in their opponent's negotiating strategy and stance?
and FYI, I advocated a Brexit with a deal. I've never once advocated NO DEAL. Not once.
I wish I hadn't. But I did and I'm not trying to distance myself from the decision I made. I just made the wrong call with the best of intentions. |
Think you misunderstood my comment.
I absolutely think a compromise is sensible. Same as it was 4 years ago post a vote split 52:48.
What I think is pathetic is your seeking to push the sh1t shower, that you helped to create, partly onto the Europeans who are doing no more than negotiating in their own interests and seeking to ensure the integrity of the single market.
In 18 days our businesses have no idea what our future trading relationship will be. 4 1/2 years after the vote. That is unforgivable, but hey, let's pretend that is (in part) the European's fault rather than those who advocated Brexit. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:41 - Dec 13 with 1304 views | vapour_trail |
| "Oven-ready" - on 11:57 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I advocated a soft Brexit from the start. I've never once advocated no deal and have repeatedly said that no deal would me an unmitigated disaster.
Glad to see I'm still squatting with Ryorry in your head 24/7 though vapers me old mucker. |
Couple of things.
You’re assuming other people take this place as seriously as you. Neither you or anybody else from here is “squatting” in my head. I enjoy this board but it’s really not that important to me. I’ve never been banned from this site. Never deleted my account in a fit of pique, only to remain tuned in to return as “vindicated blue” the minute there was a corbyn shaped opportunity. Unparalleled levels of embarrassment right there.
I’m not your old mucker. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:42 - Dec 13 with 1303 views | eireblue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:25 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
It's pathetic to want both sides to compromise in the interests of getting a deal that is mutually beneficial?
It's pathetic to ask remainers and leavers, and yes I voted leave, to only see the fault in their opponent's negotiating strategy and stance?
and FYI, I advocated a Brexit with a deal. I've never once advocated NO DEAL. Not once.
I wish I hadn't. But I did and I'm not trying to distance myself from the decision I made. I just made the wrong call with the best of intentions. |
To be fair, you made some disingenuous comments at times, when debating about Brexit.
So I think, the pathetic comment, maybe more about it being a bit hypocritical to be critical of people for doing the sort of thing you have done in the past.
Also, you seem to be being critical of people that are not supportive of a completely un-trustworthy and incompetent Government.
I think it is a perfectly fine to look at two organisations, and decide to lean towards the one that doesn’t have a proven record of lying, cheating and being incompetent.
Maybe your comments should have been more along the lines of, it is sad to see a party and government that has stooped so low, that perfectly reasonable people, will side with a foreign organisation. |  | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:43 - Dec 13 with 1299 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:42 - Dec 13 by eireblue |
To be fair, you made some disingenuous comments at times, when debating about Brexit.
So I think, the pathetic comment, maybe more about it being a bit hypocritical to be critical of people for doing the sort of thing you have done in the past.
Also, you seem to be being critical of people that are not supportive of a completely un-trustworthy and incompetent Government.
I think it is a perfectly fine to look at two organisations, and decide to lean towards the one that doesn’t have a proven record of lying, cheating and being incompetent.
Maybe your comments should have been more along the lines of, it is sad to see a party and government that has stooped so low, that perfectly reasonable people, will side with a foreign organisation. |
Nail on head. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:44 - Dec 13 with 1296 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:38 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
Think you misunderstood my comment.
I absolutely think a compromise is sensible. Same as it was 4 years ago post a vote split 52:48.
What I think is pathetic is your seeking to push the sh1t shower, that you helped to create, partly onto the Europeans who are doing no more than negotiating in their own interests and seeking to ensure the integrity of the single market.
In 18 days our businesses have no idea what our future trading relationship will be. 4 1/2 years after the vote. That is unforgivable, but hey, let's pretend that is (in part) the European's fault rather than those who advocated Brexit. |
I think it's you who is misunderstanding my comment. I'm not pushing "the sh1t shower" onto the Europeans. (BTW, we are all Europeans. It's a continent that is exclusive to members of the EU).
The EU may well be negotiating in their own best interest. As we hope our government are also doing. Yet remainers are supporting every move and stance that the EU are taking and Brexiteers are supporting every move and stance that the UK Govt are taking.
It's tribal nonsense. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:45 - Dec 13 with 1284 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:27 - Dec 13 by lowhouseblue |
it's what we would have got if people hadn't played parliamentary games to undermine theresa may. that went well. |
The polarisation of parliament and it's failure to come up with a middle ground will go down in history as an abject failure imho.
Suspect an awful lot of MPs would upon reflection recognise they played things appallingly. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 12:48 - Dec 13 with 1279 views | m14_blue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:44 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think it's you who is misunderstanding my comment. I'm not pushing "the sh1t shower" onto the Europeans. (BTW, we are all Europeans. It's a continent that is exclusive to members of the EU).
The EU may well be negotiating in their own best interest. As we hope our government are also doing. Yet remainers are supporting every move and stance that the EU are taking and Brexiteers are supporting every move and stance that the UK Govt are taking.
It's tribal nonsense. |
That's the nub of it right there though, do you really, seriously, honestly, think our Government are negotiating in the UK's best interest?????
I'm amazed if you're that naive GB.
They are negotiating in their own best interests and the interests of the Conservative party, the wellbeing of the people they represent isn't even a consideration. If it was then we wouldn't be in this position. |  | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:52 - Dec 13 with 1268 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:44 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think it's you who is misunderstanding my comment. I'm not pushing "the sh1t shower" onto the Europeans. (BTW, we are all Europeans. It's a continent that is exclusive to members of the EU).
The EU may well be negotiating in their own best interest. As we hope our government are also doing. Yet remainers are supporting every move and stance that the EU are taking and Brexiteers are supporting every move and stance that the UK Govt are taking.
It's tribal nonsense. |
Well, I look at the actions of our govt. only yesterday feeding stories about gunboats and I compare that to the stated EU position of not wanting the UK to gain an unfair advantage....I know which seems sensible as an approach.
I also recognise that we have a govt. who have
1. Lied in a campaign about Brexit.
2. Illegally prorogued parliament.
3. Tried to go back on a deal they signed months previously.
4. Introduced legislation to break that deal and break international law.
I know which side I think has the morale high ground here, and it isn't your once beloved conservatives. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:08 - Dec 13 with 1246 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:48 - Dec 13 by m14_blue |
That's the nub of it right there though, do you really, seriously, honestly, think our Government are negotiating in the UK's best interest?????
I'm amazed if you're that naive GB.
They are negotiating in their own best interests and the interests of the Conservative party, the wellbeing of the people they represent isn't even a consideration. If it was then we wouldn't be in this position. |
I think that's a fair comment. Starmer has said he will whip labour into voting for a deal so the pressure is off Johnson to appease the ERG. So he has every reason to compromise in the interests of the country.
I'll ask you a similar question. And are the EU negotiating in the best interests of it's member states or are they determined that the UK cannot be seen to succeed outside of the EU.
Are they negotiating with the UK in the same way they would Canada or any other third party nation or are they negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion because we voted to leave? | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:12 - Dec 13 with 1233 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 12:41 - Dec 13 by vapour_trail |
Couple of things.
You’re assuming other people take this place as seriously as you. Neither you or anybody else from here is “squatting” in my head. I enjoy this board but it’s really not that important to me. I’ve never been banned from this site. Never deleted my account in a fit of pique, only to remain tuned in to return as “vindicated blue” the minute there was a corbyn shaped opportunity. Unparalleled levels of embarrassment right there.
I’m not your old mucker. |
If you believe asking Phil to delete my account after a poster said I get a "hard on from antisemitism", in the same week my Jewish born father in law passed away, can be considered a a "fit of pique" then it reveals rather a lot about you me old mucker. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:12 - Dec 13 with 1231 views | eireblue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:08 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that's a fair comment. Starmer has said he will whip labour into voting for a deal so the pressure is off Johnson to appease the ERG. So he has every reason to compromise in the interests of the country.
I'll ask you a similar question. And are the EU negotiating in the best interests of it's member states or are they determined that the UK cannot be seen to succeed outside of the EU.
Are they negotiating with the UK in the same way they would Canada or any other third party nation or are they negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion because we voted to leave? |
“... negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion..”
Explain how the previous deal that was negotiated, punitive?
If it wasn’t, there is no evidence that the EU are being punitive.
That would also mean, this government is still spinning, and some people are believing the spin. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:16 - Dec 13 with 1219 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:08 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that's a fair comment. Starmer has said he will whip labour into voting for a deal so the pressure is off Johnson to appease the ERG. So he has every reason to compromise in the interests of the country.
I'll ask you a similar question. And are the EU negotiating in the best interests of it's member states or are they determined that the UK cannot be seen to succeed outside of the EU.
Are they negotiating with the UK in the same way they would Canada or any other third party nation or are they negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion because we voted to leave? |
I think the bit you are missing in how they are negotiating (And I accept they are demanding rules on alignment over those Canada had) is the question of trust.
Johnson's decision to try and weasel out of the withdrawl agreement he signed, his decision to introduce legislation to break that agreement - I think that is why the Europeans have a taken a tougher stance. It is as a direct consequence of the current govt.s dishonest actions.
You reap what you sow - as BJ is finding out. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:17]
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:19 - Dec 13 with 1208 views | footers |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:16 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
I think the bit you are missing in how they are negotiating (And I accept they are demanding rules on alignment over those Canada had) is the question of trust.
Johnson's decision to try and weasel out of the withdrawl agreement he signed, his decision to introduce legislation to break that agreement - I think that is why the Europeans have a taken a tougher stance. It is as a direct consequence of the current govt.s dishonest actions.
You reap what you sow - as BJ is finding out. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:17]
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I'm not sure how the EU could've been more concilliatory or patient given that we've negotiated in bad faith from the start. We change our tune at almost every opportunity, have threatened them with becoming a tax haven and attempted to break international law. What their side must think of our negotiating strategy god only knows. It's like trying to have a rational discussion with a toddler having a tantrum. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:19 - Dec 13 with 1207 views | DanTheMan |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:08 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that's a fair comment. Starmer has said he will whip labour into voting for a deal so the pressure is off Johnson to appease the ERG. So he has every reason to compromise in the interests of the country.
I'll ask you a similar question. And are the EU negotiating in the best interests of it's member states or are they determined that the UK cannot be seen to succeed outside of the EU.
Are they negotiating with the UK in the same way they would Canada or any other third party nation or are they negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion because we voted to leave? |
They are negotiating with us like we are a European nation literally on their doorstep, as opposed to a nations ocean(s) away. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:23 - Dec 13 with 1191 views | m14_blue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:08 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that's a fair comment. Starmer has said he will whip labour into voting for a deal so the pressure is off Johnson to appease the ERG. So he has every reason to compromise in the interests of the country.
I'll ask you a similar question. And are the EU negotiating in the best interests of it's member states or are they determined that the UK cannot be seen to succeed outside of the EU.
Are they negotiating with the UK in the same way they would Canada or any other third party nation or are they negotiating with us in a more punitive fashion because we voted to leave? |
Their primary concern is the ongoing strength of their trading bloc, I guess whether that is always the same as the interests of their individual members is up for debate. The point is, they didn't ask for any of this, it was our Brexiteers who claimed it would all be easy, not the EU and not remainers - they've always been clear that it would be a fcuking nightmare (PROJECT FEAR!!!!).
I don't believe for a second they are being punitive with us because we voted to leave. They probably are getting frustrated with us but wouldn't you be if you'd spent 4 years trying to deal with the obnoxious, disingenuous, law breaking, nationalist, fantasist charlatans who have been running things in the UK?
How do you deal with people so utterly detached from reality? | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:28 - Dec 13 with 1167 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:23 - Dec 13 by m14_blue |
Their primary concern is the ongoing strength of their trading bloc, I guess whether that is always the same as the interests of their individual members is up for debate. The point is, they didn't ask for any of this, it was our Brexiteers who claimed it would all be easy, not the EU and not remainers - they've always been clear that it would be a fcuking nightmare (PROJECT FEAR!!!!).
I don't believe for a second they are being punitive with us because we voted to leave. They probably are getting frustrated with us but wouldn't you be if you'd spent 4 years trying to deal with the obnoxious, disingenuous, law breaking, nationalist, fantasist charlatans who have been running things in the UK?
How do you deal with people so utterly detached from reality? |
All fair points. I've probably not explained myself very well on this thread. I'm certainly not excusing or supporting the way this government has conducted itself during the process.
I just find it terribly frustrating how tribal people are being on the subject. It's completely black and white depending on your view. No shades of grey at all in people's thinking.
I still believe there will be a deal at the 11th hour. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:29]
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:29 - Dec 13 with 1164 views | bluelagos |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:23 - Dec 13 by m14_blue |
Their primary concern is the ongoing strength of their trading bloc, I guess whether that is always the same as the interests of their individual members is up for debate. The point is, they didn't ask for any of this, it was our Brexiteers who claimed it would all be easy, not the EU and not remainers - they've always been clear that it would be a fcuking nightmare (PROJECT FEAR!!!!).
I don't believe for a second they are being punitive with us because we voted to leave. They probably are getting frustrated with us but wouldn't you be if you'd spent 4 years trying to deal with the obnoxious, disingenuous, law breaking, nationalist, fantasist charlatans who have been running things in the UK?
How do you deal with people so utterly detached from reality? |
Worse thing is, when we get a deal, that largely ties us to the EU rules, that excludes services, that reduces our rights of travel and work, that is forecast to reduce our GDP by 4% - they will have the audacity to claim we have a great deal. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:32 - Dec 13 with 1143 views | m14_blue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:28 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
All fair points. I've probably not explained myself very well on this thread. I'm certainly not excusing or supporting the way this government has conducted itself during the process.
I just find it terribly frustrating how tribal people are being on the subject. It's completely black and white depending on your view. No shades of grey at all in people's thinking.
I still believe there will be a deal at the 11th hour. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:29]
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Fingers crossed!
And I do agree that the EU have probably been put on an undeserved pedestal by many on this side of the fence (including me).
The tribalism is unhelpful but is inevitable when our government's whole modus operandi is to divide and turn people against each other. They also rehash the old leave vs remain arguments at every opportunity because they know it plays well with their base. | | | |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:32 - Dec 13 with 1142 views | footers |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:28 - Dec 13 by GlasgowBlue |
All fair points. I've probably not explained myself very well on this thread. I'm certainly not excusing or supporting the way this government has conducted itself during the process.
I just find it terribly frustrating how tribal people are being on the subject. It's completely black and white depending on your view. No shades of grey at all in people's thinking.
I still believe there will be a deal at the 11th hour. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:29]
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What are the shades of grey that we're not seeing? It does seem fairly clear cut where the problems have stemmed from from where I'm sitting. | |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:33 - Dec 13 with 1140 views | giant_stow |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:29 - Dec 13 by bluelagos |
Worse thing is, when we get a deal, that largely ties us to the EU rules, that excludes services, that reduces our rights of travel and work, that is forecast to reduce our GDP by 4% - they will have the audacity to claim we have a great deal. |
What you've laid out there is probably why a deal will only happen if the EU make some serious concessions. I can't see Boris backing down far now.
Just for clarity, I'm saying that's right or wrong just where we are. |  |
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| "Oven-ready" - on 13:38 - Dec 13 with 1128 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Oven-ready" - on 13:32 - Dec 13 by footers |
What are the shades of grey that we're not seeing? It does seem fairly clear cut where the problems have stemmed from from where I'm sitting. |
Not just on specific issues, such as fishing, the ECJ having being the arbitrator rather than an independent body. When I say shades of grey, I mean Brexiteers and remainers not seeing the "other side's" point of view. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 13:42]
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