| Should men compete with women 12:17 - Feb 6 with 1932 views | Darth_Koont |
In deciding about women’s sports?
Too soon? |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:19 - Feb 6 with 1629 views | Bluefish |
As much as the thread angered me it is shame to see it go
Understandable why and some blame to me for that |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:25 - Feb 6 with 1629 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should men compete with women on 12:19 - Feb 6 by Bluefish |
As much as the thread angered me it is shame to see it go
Understandable why and some blame to me for that |
Yes, there were some excellent posts among the silly reactionary stuff. But I think it was the title that did for it.
My point here is semi-serious too. I’m involved in rugby coaching for men and women and there’s been a lot of discussion. But the most sensible, reasoned and inclusive views have come from within the sport, not from outside it, and the elite women players have been at the forefront. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:38 - Feb 6 with 1566 views | Herbivore |
I went for a walk. What happened with the other thread in the end? |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:41 - Feb 6 with 1549 views | giant_stow |
| Should men compete with women on 12:25 - Feb 6 by Darth_Koont |
Yes, there were some excellent posts among the silly reactionary stuff. But I think it was the title that did for it.
My point here is semi-serious too. I’m involved in rugby coaching for men and women and there’s been a lot of discussion. But the most sensible, reasoned and inclusive views have come from within the sport, not from outside it, and the elite women players have been at the forefront. |
If there is such a thing a consensus among those elite players, what do they tend to think about it? |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:41 - Feb 6 with 1545 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should men compete with women on 12:38 - Feb 6 by Herbivore |
I went for a walk. What happened with the other thread in the end? |
No idea really. I hadn’t worked my way through as I was still reading the excellent links provided by eireblue (I think). | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:46 - Feb 6 with 1519 views | Herbivore |
| Should men compete with women on 12:41 - Feb 6 by Darth_Koont |
No idea really. I hadn’t worked my way through as I was still reading the excellent links provided by eireblue (I think). |
It didn't get off to a great start with the transphobic thread title. Predictably when I pointed that out, Paz down arrowed me. We can add trans people to the list of minority groups that it's okay to say offensive things about in Pazland. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:46 - Feb 6 with 1517 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Should men compete with women on 12:38 - Feb 6 by Herbivore |
I went for a walk. What happened with the other thread in the end? |
There were two skilled exponents of the Trigger Post (yes, you know who you are!) going at it hammer and tongs and it probably got a bit too personal.... |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:49 - Feb 6 with 1506 views | Ace_High1 |
N/T [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:59]
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| Should men compete with women on 12:50 - Feb 6 with 1495 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should men compete with women on 12:41 - Feb 6 by giant_stow |
If there is such a thing a consensus among those elite players, what do they tend to think about it? |
That it’s not an insurmountable or even a particularly big issue. They want it to be fair (with some sensible regulations) while also opening the door for trans women to get into the sport and potentially compete at the highest level. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:53 - Feb 6 with 1478 views | giant_stow |
| Should men compete with women on 12:50 - Feb 6 by Darth_Koont |
That it’s not an insurmountable or even a particularly big issue. They want it to be fair (with some sensible regulations) while also opening the door for trans women to get into the sport and potentially compete at the highest level. |
Interesting stuff and big of them. What sort of regulations? (sorry, I know nothing about rugby) | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:54 - Feb 6 with 1473 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should men compete with women on 12:49 - Feb 6 by Ace_High1 |
N/T [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:59]
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Tbh that’s not what we’re talking about here. This isn’t about the rights and wrongs of the issue, more that the wrong people often have the most to say on what others should do. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:54 - Feb 6 with 1455 views | J2BLUE |
| Should men compete with women on 12:49 - Feb 6 by Ace_High1 |
N/T [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:59]
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I've read that about five times and don't even understand the question |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:57 - Feb 6 with 1443 views | J2BLUE |
Sounds like everyone is aware there is potentially an issue and they are taking steps to level things up. Fair play.
I think this debate is always skewed by those right wing sites which find one example of it clearly being massively unfair and then push it as if it's the norm.
One best left to those who know what they are talking about! | |
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| Should men compete with women on 12:57 - Feb 6 with 1438 views | lowhouseblue |
| Should men compete with women on 12:54 - Feb 6 by J2BLUE |
I've read that about five times and don't even understand the question |
i think it's heading towards the are lesbians who don't want to date trans women transphobic argument. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:05 - Feb 6 with 1382 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should men compete with women on 12:53 - Feb 6 by giant_stow |
Interesting stuff and big of them. What sort of regulations? (sorry, I know nothing about rugby) |
That trans women players would have to use testosterone inhibitors for an extended period (2 years min) in order to play in official games.
World Rugby itself went all in on a ban at elite level, but I think that was remarkably reactionary and short-sighted as many of the country associations and players have immediately called it out. I’d expect this to change.
But it highlights the problem – as soon as you step away from the real individuals here and the real situation, this all becomes too much posturing and politics. The actual people affected and who are playing the sport should be all that matters. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:06 - Feb 6 with 1377 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Should men compete with women on 12:49 - Feb 6 by Ace_High1 |
N/T [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:59]
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Not used dating apps for a couple of years but I think on most of them you can choose what you're looking for. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:07 - Feb 6 with 1363 views | Guthrum |
Interesting piece.
There are other cases where supreme athletes/sportspeople have physiological advantages. For example, Muttiah Muralitheran's congenitally deformed elbow helped him to take a record 800 Test Match wickets. The length of Usain Bolt's legs in proportion to his body gave him an advantage in sprinting. Michael Schumacher's heart rate under stress was abnormally low. And so on.
As long as measures are in place to prevent deliberately engineered advantages (as notoriously happened with Eastern Bloc gymnasts during the Cold War), then there is little difference.
Indeed, to maintain a gruelling top-level training regime while undergoing the gender reassignment process is an extra challenge. |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:08 - Feb 6 with 1359 views | giant_stow |
| Should men compete with women on 13:05 - Feb 6 by Darth_Koont |
That trans women players would have to use testosterone inhibitors for an extended period (2 years min) in order to play in official games.
World Rugby itself went all in on a ban at elite level, but I think that was remarkably reactionary and short-sighted as many of the country associations and players have immediately called it out. I’d expect this to change.
But it highlights the problem – as soon as you step away from the real individuals here and the real situation, this all becomes too much posturing and politics. The actual people affected and who are playing the sport should be all that matters. |
Ta for the thoughts. Your last sentence seems to be a neat bottom line to all this. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:14 - Feb 6 with 1324 views | lowhouseblue |
| Should men compete with women on 13:08 - Feb 6 by giant_stow |
Ta for the thoughts. Your last sentence seems to be a neat bottom line to all this. |
though if you believe world rugby it sounds as if their decision making process at least tried:
https://www.world.rugby/news/591776/world-rugby-approves-updated-transgender-par | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:16 - Feb 6 with 1321 views | lowhouseblue |
| Should men compete with women on 13:07 - Feb 6 by Guthrum |
Interesting piece.
There are other cases where supreme athletes/sportspeople have physiological advantages. For example, Muttiah Muralitheran's congenitally deformed elbow helped him to take a record 800 Test Match wickets. The length of Usain Bolt's legs in proportion to his body gave him an advantage in sprinting. Michael Schumacher's heart rate under stress was abnormally low. And so on.
As long as measures are in place to prevent deliberately engineered advantages (as notoriously happened with Eastern Bloc gymnasts during the Cold War), then there is little difference.
Indeed, to maintain a gruelling top-level training regime while undergoing the gender reassignment process is an extra challenge. |
also the whole issue of where you draw the line between people with differences in order to achieve fairness is pretty dominant in disabled sport. the fact that a disability category includes people with a range of conditions which imply different levels of impediment isn't then a case for letting anyone compete within that category. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:23 - Feb 6 with 1293 views | Guthrum |
| Should men compete with women on 13:16 - Feb 6 by lowhouseblue |
also the whole issue of where you draw the line between people with differences in order to achieve fairness is pretty dominant in disabled sport. the fact that a disability category includes people with a range of conditions which imply different levels of impediment isn't then a case for letting anyone compete within that category. |
Tho in those cases, there are specified limits to each category. Much the same as the weight classifications in boxing. | |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:29 - Feb 6 with 1267 views | lowhouseblue |
| Should men compete with women on 13:23 - Feb 6 by Guthrum |
Tho in those cases, there are specified limits to each category. Much the same as the weight classifications in boxing. |
exactly - but there is still variation within those categories. there have been controversies about exactly where the limits are drawn. the article was arguing that medical differences amongst biological women may give some a physical advantage. that's undoubtedly true. it then said that letting people with XY chromosomes compete would be no different to that. i was just pointing out that variation within disability categories has never been seen as a justification to do away with the categorisation and open them up to others. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:31 - Feb 6 with 1245 views | BelsteadCav |
| Should men compete with women on 12:57 - Feb 6 by J2BLUE |
Sounds like everyone is aware there is potentially an issue and they are taking steps to level things up. Fair play.
I think this debate is always skewed by those right wing sites which find one example of it clearly being massively unfair and then push it as if it's the norm.
One best left to those who know what they are talking about! |
Which probably means nobody on here |  |
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| Should men compete with women on 13:35 - Feb 6 with 1226 views | eireblue |
I think it was that person who tends to also be very wise, and it is very much worth following his advise when it comes to matters around diet and the ethics of animal exploitation and environmental impact.
Handsome devil as well, I have heard. |  | | |
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