| Let's pack life in and give up now 15:49 - Feb 8 with 4174 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Every 2-3 months a new 'variant' is going to arise, which threatens the efficacy of existing vaccines, and means that restrictions need to remain for 'another few months' while we await further data. But it's just a short-term extension and things will 'hopefully look much better in the summer'.
This process repeats ad infinitum, until about the year 2030, when governents are finally prepared to get society back up and running, and to maximise the economy. However, by this point we will be prepared to blindly follow any whim and demand of our leaders in exchange for the privilege of 'freedom', because 2019 was a long time ago, and 'this is the way the world is now'.
Already we are seeing stories from so-called 'experts' saying that restrictions on large-scale gatherings will remain in place for a 'few years', while we 'learn to live with Coronavirus'. I thought the plan to live with Coronavirus was simply to get a regular vaccine infrastructure in place and to get life 'back to normal', pre-2020, but apparently I was mistaken.
We're living in a highly regulated society at this point, where the infrastructure is competely geared towards 'stopping the spread of Covid', minimising any free will on the part of the individual. But all that matters to 'them' is an efficient and productive society. Having fun and enjoying life in the traditional sense doesn't contribute towards the growth of the nation anymore.
Of course, in return for our 'freedom', we will be required to herd towards vaccine centres every 6-12 months for a booster for whichever variant is currently causing problems, and to update our vaccine records/passports, for if we wish to exercise the 'right' to travel.*
The less educated in society will continue to lap it all up, because they do not have the capacity or the means to question or change anything. Meanwhile, the well-educated who might be able to offer an alternative will be hamstrung, because the 'data' will suggest that the current approach is the 'most effective to save lives', and those who question this will risk their professional reputation and be accused of 'playing fast and loose with people's health'.
I could continute, but my brain hurts now. I'm aware I've gone full tinfoil hat and conspiracy mode, but what I've described isn't really that far from what we are already seeing. I am 100% happy and prepared to be shot down and called an absolute loon bag, by anyone who wishes to bring me back to reality and tell me that I am talking utter sh*te. But constructive responses only, please.
* I am aware that I've spoken about the vaccine programme in contradictory terms, but the contexts in each scenario are totally different. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:16 - Feb 8 with 1966 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:05 - Feb 8 by J2BLUE |
The vaccines look likely to protect against severe disease and they will adjust them for next winter. I don't see why we would be in lockdown for cases that don't require hospitalisation? The whole point of the lockdowns was to protect the NHS. If people aren't going into hospital then why the need for lockdowns?
If you've reached this point I can't recommend enough that you watch Dr Campbell's (Campbell Teaching) daily updates on his Youtube channel. You get all the info from someone who knows what they are talking about. Disconnect from the media and just watch his videos. It seems like what you need for your own mental health. |
I will check out that channel, thanks for the tip.
I've barely looked at the media at all in the last 6 months, and I recently made a point of not seeking any MSM for a couple of weeks. I also don't actively do social media. Impossible to avoid it all, though.
From a mental health perspective I am doing OK. Things could be a lot bleaker. Cheers, J2. | |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:17 - Feb 8 with 1951 views | monytowbray |
It feels that way because at times of crisis everything feels more anxious and it can cause paranioa.
Been there and done that without a pandemic.
The “great reset” isn’t a thing, but a lot of the fringes of mainstream politics are planting that seed to send you down the REDPILLED hole (which is mostly nonsense).
If it makes you feel any better, governments have never had our best interests at heart. It just seems more real now as they can’t gaslight or lie to a virus. Plus the internet and media culture now is like an accelerator, if Sky24 existed during WWII I can’t imagine what would happen.
I think close to a year ago now on here I said “The curtain is lifted, have a good hard look whilst you can.” We’ve seen politically led “science”, kids left to starve, outright corruption on private contracts, complete disregard of the rules for the super rich and god knows what else botched.
If the collective finally say enough is enough we can change the rules of democracy for the 21st century. It’ll take time but we’ll get there. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:19 - Feb 8 with 1951 views | J2BLUE |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:16 - Feb 8 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I will check out that channel, thanks for the tip.
I've barely looked at the media at all in the last 6 months, and I recently made a point of not seeking any MSM for a couple of weeks. I also don't actively do social media. Impossible to avoid it all, though.
From a mental health perspective I am doing OK. Things could be a lot bleaker. Cheers, J2. |
You're welcome. Sorry if that came across as harsh. It's perfectly acceptable not to feel ok. This has been dragging on a long time.
That channel has saved my mental health. Especially as during the early days of the pandemic this site was mainly dominated by negative news and (understandably) fear. Sometimes you just need to turn the negativity loving media off and disconnect from people who don't really have a clue and go to someone who is balanced and will break things down properly. Dr Campbell has a saying: "follow the science, wherever it leads". He is mostly positive but if the facts show something looks bad he will tell you. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:23 - Feb 8 with 1929 views | Sarge |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:07 - Feb 8 by StokieBlue |
Totally disagree.
Scientists shouldn't "read the room" and tell people what they want to hear, they should tell them exactly what the sciences indicates at that time.
In your two examples, if it's unlikely there will be large gatherings without restrictions it's best to say and than explain why using science. As for masks, the science is extremely clear that they should be used in winter months regardless of C19 just as they are in Asia. I know that many don't want to hear that but that is what the science indicates. Look at the levels of flu this year, wearing masks in shops or even just on public transport could mean that most years look like that. Surely wearing a mask for a few minutes is better than people needlessly dying?
You don't have to worry about masks being a long term issue though, the will simply isn't there in the West to minimise airborne disease in the winter months through a tiny bit of discomfort.
Essentially you are asking that scientists ignore the science which to me is an awful position to expect them to take and it's one I hope they never embrace.
SB [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 17:08]
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I feel you’re being slightly patronising with your ‘tiny bit of discomfort line’.
The evidence on masks is not new. Can I assume therefore you’ve been wearing one as standard long before Covid to protect against other diseases? If not, why not?
Edit: and I’m not asking them to ignore the science, I’m asking them to avoid speculating on the future of a situation nobody has encountered before. Hard numbers and facts make for a useful academic article, but this is a situation which requires the buy-in and cooperation of vast numbers of human beings who have thoughts and feelings and who need to be managed accordingly. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 17:28]
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:59 - Feb 8 with 1877 views | NthQldITFC |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:07 - Feb 8 by StokieBlue |
Totally disagree.
Scientists shouldn't "read the room" and tell people what they want to hear, they should tell them exactly what the sciences indicates at that time.
In your two examples, if it's unlikely there will be large gatherings without restrictions it's best to say and than explain why using science. As for masks, the science is extremely clear that they should be used in winter months regardless of C19 just as they are in Asia. I know that many don't want to hear that but that is what the science indicates. Look at the levels of flu this year, wearing masks in shops or even just on public transport could mean that most years look like that. Surely wearing a mask for a few minutes is better than people needlessly dying?
You don't have to worry about masks being a long term issue though, the will simply isn't there in the West to minimise airborne disease in the winter months through a tiny bit of discomfort.
Essentially you are asking that scientists ignore the science which to me is an awful position to expect them to take and it's one I hope they never embrace.
SB [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 17:08]
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Absolutely. The current best understanding, qualified by possible error ranges should always be the 'truth' that science presents. What the bulk of the population have to be educated and mature enough to understand and remember, is that that 'truth' can and will change over time, as understanding improves.
I'm not sure that we have the right personalities presenting information to the public even now. If it's too 'sciency', the scientists tend to be scared to commit because they know they will be vilified if they have to present different, updated information, and if it's too 'news anchory', they often don't have the skill or understanding not to go down the more emotional or sensationalist route. I think we need to shift the focus of the main presentation of information into the hands of the likes of the 'More or Less' presenter on radio 4, whose name escapes me for the moment, i.e. make more use of specialist presenters.
Getting an accurate and understandable message across to the public is so important. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:04 - Feb 8 with 1869 views | WD19 |
I hope that was quicker for you type than it was for me to read. |  | | |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:13 - Feb 8 with 1857 views | StokieBlue |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:23 - Feb 8 by Sarge |
I feel you’re being slightly patronising with your ‘tiny bit of discomfort line’.
The evidence on masks is not new. Can I assume therefore you’ve been wearing one as standard long before Covid to protect against other diseases? If not, why not?
Edit: and I’m not asking them to ignore the science, I’m asking them to avoid speculating on the future of a situation nobody has encountered before. Hard numbers and facts make for a useful academic article, but this is a situation which requires the buy-in and cooperation of vast numbers of human beings who have thoughts and feelings and who need to be managed accordingly. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 17:28]
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The evidence certainly wasn't a clear cut as it is now, we didn't have comparisons to historical flu seasons in this country like we do now and given the evidence as it's stands I've modified my position and have no problem wearing one in the winter months in situations where it would be beneficial to everyone.
That is how science works, when the weight of evidence is there then one should modify their position. The issue is going to be that if not enough people do it then it's pretty pointless as airborne pathogens will still spread. I don't think we will see a mask wearing culture in the winter in this country after the pandemic but that doesn't mean the scientists aren't right to say it would be better.
They aren't simply speculating, they are voicing an informed opinion based on the science which is what they have been asked to do. If they attempted to massage the message to manage peoples feelings then in 6 months they would be accused by the very same people of not being honest about the situation or giving false scientific messages.
It's for the politicians to manage the people, not the scientists.
SB [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 18:14]
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:23 - Feb 8 with 1830 views | jaykay |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 16:46 - Feb 8 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Sounds interesting. I will watch it later, thanks. |
why do i think of donald trump and disinfectant
when i read them words 'Sounds interesting ' |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:39 - Feb 8 with 1822 views | Swansea_Blue |
I wouldn’t worry about the vaccines. The scientific teams involved are well aware of the likelihood of mutations and have planned for this in the next wave of vaccines that are coming. The problems where they arise will be political, chiefly whether Johnson decides to pull another stunt like opening up for VE Day celebrations or ‘saving’ Christmas. So schools returning and Easter are probably the next thing to keep an eye on. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:43 - Feb 8 with 1816 views | Trequartista |
A new variant arises every day, but only the more infectious ones survive. The more we suppress the disease with vaccines, the less mutations. We've had the year long wait creating the vaccines now they can be tweaked in weeks for booster shots of the more infectious mutations. Mutations are limited in how much they can mutate. SARS-Covid-1, the nearest relative to Covid 19 was eradicated.
Hope this feels better. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:45 - Feb 8 with 1809 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:39 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
I wouldn’t worry about the vaccines. The scientific teams involved are well aware of the likelihood of mutations and have planned for this in the next wave of vaccines that are coming. The problems where they arise will be political, chiefly whether Johnson decides to pull another stunt like opening up for VE Day celebrations or ‘saving’ Christmas. So schools returning and Easter are probably the next thing to keep an eye on. |
When did we "open up" for VE celebrations? The government advice was the exact opposite as we were in the middle of lockdown.
https://www.veday75.org/ |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:49 - Feb 8 with 1801 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:45 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
When did we "open up" for VE celebrations? The government advice was the exact opposite as we were in the middle of lockdown.
https://www.veday75.org/ |
Bank holiday then. Whenever it was in the spring when he ditched the stay at home advice, told everyone to be alert and confused the hell out of everyone resulting in packed beaches. | |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 19:01 - Feb 8 with 1783 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 18:49 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Bank holiday then. Whenever it was in the spring when he ditched the stay at home advice, told everyone to be alert and confused the hell out of everyone resulting in packed beaches. |
That wasn't opening up. Pubs, Bars, Restaurants, Gyms etc stayed closed until early July. Non essential retail didn't open until 15th June.
That isn't a defence of the change in messaging. But there was no stunt to open up for VE Day or anything like it.
There are plenty of reasons to hammer Johnson over Covid. W e don't need to make things up. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 19:02]
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 19:07 - Feb 8 with 1771 views | BlueBadger |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:17 - Feb 8 by monytowbray |
It feels that way because at times of crisis everything feels more anxious and it can cause paranioa.
Been there and done that without a pandemic.
The “great reset” isn’t a thing, but a lot of the fringes of mainstream politics are planting that seed to send you down the REDPILLED hole (which is mostly nonsense).
If it makes you feel any better, governments have never had our best interests at heart. It just seems more real now as they can’t gaslight or lie to a virus. Plus the internet and media culture now is like an accelerator, if Sky24 existed during WWII I can’t imagine what would happen.
I think close to a year ago now on here I said “The curtain is lifted, have a good hard look whilst you can.” We’ve seen politically led “science”, kids left to starve, outright corruption on private contracts, complete disregard of the rules for the super rich and god knows what else botched.
If the collective finally say enough is enough we can change the rules of democracy for the 21st century. It’ll take time but we’ll get there. |
Yes, but Kier Starmer is standing in front of a flag. |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 19:30 - Feb 8 with 1737 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 19:01 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
That wasn't opening up. Pubs, Bars, Restaurants, Gyms etc stayed closed until early July. Non essential retail didn't open until 15th June.
That isn't a defence of the change in messaging. But there was no stunt to open up for VE Day or anything like it.
There are plenty of reasons to hammer Johnson over Covid. W e don't need to make things up. [Post edited 8 Feb 2021 19:02]
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My mistake then. I remember the street parties & that conga piece, but maybe they were just idiots going against the advice. There was certainly confused messaging back then (As mocked in the ‘go to work, don’t go to work’ tweet from Matt Lucas).
Maybe it was just confused messaging, which I agree isn’t an opening up. Keeping schools open against scientific advice and wanting to relax rules more than eventually they were at Christmas (with a stupidly late call on both) would be better examples of political failures.
That’s distracted a bit from my original point, which was that the scientists are in charge of the vaccine strategy and efforts so it’s in good hands. | |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 19:41 - Feb 8 with 1722 views | BlueBadger |
If it's at all reassuring, I've had my first boring day at work since mid November. | |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 20:31 - Feb 8 with 1683 views | Ryorry |
| Let's pack life in and give up now on 17:59 - Feb 8 by NthQldITFC |
Absolutely. The current best understanding, qualified by possible error ranges should always be the 'truth' that science presents. What the bulk of the population have to be educated and mature enough to understand and remember, is that that 'truth' can and will change over time, as understanding improves.
I'm not sure that we have the right personalities presenting information to the public even now. If it's too 'sciency', the scientists tend to be scared to commit because they know they will be vilified if they have to present different, updated information, and if it's too 'news anchory', they often don't have the skill or understanding not to go down the more emotional or sensationalist route. I think we need to shift the focus of the main presentation of information into the hands of the likes of the 'More or Less' presenter on radio 4, whose name escapes me for the moment, i.e. make more use of specialist presenters.
Getting an accurate and understandable message across to the public is so important. |
Tim Harford is the presenter of 'More or Less' & I agree, it's a top programme, always interesting ðŸ‘
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd/episodes/player |  |
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| Let's pack life in and give up now on 21:15 - Feb 8 with 1654 views | Guthrum |
The key element is cost. Keeping people locked down is costing governments enormous amounts of money, at the same time as severely depressing economic activity - and thus tax revenue.
Therefore it is extremely unlikely that any administration would utterly destroy the financial underpinning of their very existence for the sake of some nebulous "control" which is not that much more than what they already have available.
It is also worth looking at the aftermath of the Second World War. The populace had, by the time the direct threat was dealt with in May 1945, lived with severe restrictions of liberty (including all young and many other people being conscripted into the military, paramilitary or civilian organisations under some sort of discipline) for five-and-a-half years. However, dissent and freedom of thought was far from eradicated. They elected a radical reforming government. There was an explosion of new and subversive art and literature. In many ways it was driven by a reaction to the experiences of hardship and the sacrifices made. Something similar had happened after the four years of World War One, also. |  |
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