| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels 14:53 - Feb 11 with 2712 views | StokieBlue |
Based on the idea that we don't know exactly where the Brazilian and SA variants are and that as it stands 29 of the 41 countries where the SA variant has been found aren't on the red list.
They are estimating that up to 10,000 people per day are arriving from countries where the variant has been found but are not isolating in hotels.
That is quite a lot more draconian than the current and even implied Tory policies on entry (which caused a debate yesterday) and would almost certainly mean no holidays for quite some time as not many people are going to pay 1750 per head to quarantine upon return.
SB |  | | |  |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:48 - Feb 11 with 736 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:40 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Maybe we’d still be on the first one. Who knows? Not you for sure. |
Yes, because we'd definitely be in lockdown 1 if we'd been more effective at controlling infections in the first place.
Christ alive Chico, you're making your ramblings about drug policy look knowledgeable and balance here. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 16:49]
|  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:49 - Feb 11 with 729 views | chicoazul |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:48 - Feb 11 by BlueBadger |
Yes, because we'd definitely be in lockdown 1 if we'd been more effective at controlling infections in the first place.
Christ alive Chico, you're making your ramblings about drug policy look knowledgeable and balance here. [Post edited 11 Feb 2021 16:49]
|
Who knows? They still get infections in Oz, right? |  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:50 - Feb 11 with 723 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:40 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Maybe we’d still be on the first one. Who knows? Not you for sure. |
Actually, I'd like to change my answer to 'LOLWHUT. Go to bed dad, you're drunk'. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:51 - Feb 11 with 721 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:49 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Who knows? They still get infections in Oz, right? |
Yeah. In single figures. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:52 - Feb 11 with 722 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:39 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
I can’t help what you project onto me. |
Oh Chico, you're coming across like a non-racist Paz tribute act now. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:53 - Feb 11 with 719 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:52 - Feb 11 by BlueBadger |
Oh Chico, you're coming across like a non-racist Paz tribute act now. |
That, or Paz is a racist Chico tribute act. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:08 - Feb 11 with 693 views | chicoazul |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:52 - Feb 11 by BlueBadger |
Oh Chico, you're coming across like a non-racist Paz tribute act now. |
All I’m saying is you don’t “know” anything. You’re just guessing. Whether that deserves your responses so far is for others to decide. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:11 - Feb 11 with 691 views | bluelagos |
More draconian?
Surely it is more comprehensive and more effective. The draconian nature of yesterday's news was putting people in jail for upto 10 years for filling in a form wrong, a harsher sentence than many serious rapists receive.
If everyone is quarantined as proposed, no one will be getting fined / jail time at all. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:14 - Feb 11 with 687 views | bluelagos |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:04 - Feb 11 by ElderGrizzly |
There are 20,000 passengers arriving by air every day.
The data i've seen suggests Labour's data is somewhat off. |
Presumably an automatic 2 weeks quarantine would reduce the numbers arriving significantly. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:15 - Feb 11 with 681 views | factual_blue |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 16:15 - Feb 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I thought the routine was the Tories will now make a big song and dance about how Labour want to close the country, before doing exactly what has been suggested about 2 weeks later? |
Another trick we're missing is that staying in the government-approved hotels in NZ costs you £4k. |  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:16 - Feb 11 with 675 views | StokieBlue |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:11 - Feb 11 by bluelagos |
More draconian?
Surely it is more comprehensive and more effective. The draconian nature of yesterday's news was putting people in jail for upto 10 years for filling in a form wrong, a harsher sentence than many serious rapists receive.
If everyone is quarantined as proposed, no one will be getting fined / jail time at all. |
Those are two different things though. One is the rule for all and one is the punishment for the exceptions. Making everyone quarantine is more draconian than just making people from red listed countries quarantine.
On the punishment you've misrepresented what is happening (unless I've missed something). Filling out a form wrong is a mistake, the punishment was for deliberately lying - those are two totally different things.
SB | | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:18 - Feb 11 with 670 views | bluelagos |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:16 - Feb 11 by StokieBlue |
Those are two different things though. One is the rule for all and one is the punishment for the exceptions. Making everyone quarantine is more draconian than just making people from red listed countries quarantine.
On the punishment you've misrepresented what is happening (unless I've missed something). Filling out a form wrong is a mistake, the punishment was for deliberately lying - those are two totally different things.
SB |
Yeah ,was being a bit flippant for sure.
But they are not bringing in any new law at all. Merely applying an existing law on fraud which carries a max 10 year sentence. No prospect at all that anyone will be getting 10 years in prison or anything like it. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:23 - Feb 11 with 661 views | bluelagos |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:18 - Feb 11 by bluelagos |
Yeah ,was being a bit flippant for sure.
But they are not bringing in any new law at all. Merely applying an existing law on fraud which carries a max 10 year sentence. No prospect at all that anyone will be getting 10 years in prison or anything like it. |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/ten-year-sentences-for-covid-rule-
Some details of the existing law in the above article, along with numerous informed legal bods stating quite clearly the 10 year sentence won't happen. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:50 - Feb 11 with 654 views | YarraBlue |
In Australia. We've been quarantining people coming into the country (and sometimes between states) since the thing began. And it seems the only outbreaks we get now are from workers in the hotels that serve as the quarantine centres catching it from people returning to the country.
I believe it left a lot of overseas Australians high and dry initially, stuck in other countries and not able to get home, which is pretty tough but the pay off is that Australia is essentially Covid free currently.
The UK is a much larger population with many more international connections, but I find it astounding that the government hasn't already shut the borders and quarantined arrivals. It is the archetypal island nation - it seems obvious.
The only issue I can see with the Australian method is that is has possibly been too successful. If herd immunity comes into play, we will have none. Fingers crossed for vaccines! |  | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:54 - Feb 11 with 641 views | DanTheMan |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 15:11 - Feb 11 by footers |
 |
The correct way of course is the left hand one but upside down. |  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 18:04 - Feb 11 with 619 views | BloomBlue |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:50 - Feb 11 by YarraBlue |
In Australia. We've been quarantining people coming into the country (and sometimes between states) since the thing began. And it seems the only outbreaks we get now are from workers in the hotels that serve as the quarantine centres catching it from people returning to the country.
I believe it left a lot of overseas Australians high and dry initially, stuck in other countries and not able to get home, which is pretty tough but the pay off is that Australia is essentially Covid free currently.
The UK is a much larger population with many more international connections, but I find it astounding that the government hasn't already shut the borders and quarantined arrivals. It is the archetypal island nation - it seems obvious.
The only issue I can see with the Australian method is that is has possibly been too successful. If herd immunity comes into play, we will have none. Fingers crossed for vaccines! |
I did like how Australia wouldn't even allow Australian nationals back, in the UK the press were kicking the Government for not doing enough to repatriate people.
But question for you did Australia ban / quarantine all travel? What I mean by that is in the UK we have something like 8000 lorries a day coming into Dover with Food etc, did Australia stop/quarantine that type of travel ? |  | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 19:46 - Feb 11 with 596 views | factual_blue |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 15:05 - Feb 11 by jeera |
The only thing I would say is that sounds steep.
I agree with the method, but the pricing seems off. |
Our NZ friends tell us that the same stay there is four grand. The only arrivals according to them are high net worth individuals and those coming to NZ for flim-making. | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 20:21 - Feb 11 with 569 views | Ace_High1 |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:50 - Feb 11 by YarraBlue |
In Australia. We've been quarantining people coming into the country (and sometimes between states) since the thing began. And it seems the only outbreaks we get now are from workers in the hotels that serve as the quarantine centres catching it from people returning to the country.
I believe it left a lot of overseas Australians high and dry initially, stuck in other countries and not able to get home, which is pretty tough but the pay off is that Australia is essentially Covid free currently.
The UK is a much larger population with many more international connections, but I find it astounding that the government hasn't already shut the borders and quarantined arrivals. It is the archetypal island nation - it seems obvious.
The only issue I can see with the Australian method is that is has possibly been too successful. If herd immunity comes into play, we will have none. Fingers crossed for vaccines! |
Aussies have been great on this and looks like you are all enjoying your summer with just the occasional 5 day local restriction when a new case is found.
What is the latest on the vaccines in Australia? Obviously not the same urgency as over here, but have any been approved or given yet? |  | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 22:53 - Feb 11 with 526 views | Swansea_Blue |
Awesome idea borrowed from places that are effectively running a zero covid approach. Probably wouldn’t work here though unless the rest of the response was upgraded (better track and trace, quicker response to outbreaks of cases, better public messaging, better enforcement, plus convincing people not to be selfish dickheads). |  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 22:57 - Feb 11 with 522 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 17:14 - Feb 11 by bluelagos |
Presumably an automatic 2 weeks quarantine would reduce the numbers arriving significantly. |
It does. And the cost is another incentive to not travel. So it’s both effective as a first line of defence and as a way of changing behaviour. That’s how it works elsewhere anyway | |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 04:17 - Feb 12 with 491 views | YarraBlue |
Latest from Victoria, Australia is that there's been an outbreak at the airport, 19 cases of the UK variant at present. So the State Governor has just announced a 5 day circuit breaker lockdown. He stated that we can't just contact trace this and catch up with it as it's the UK variant and too fast spreading, so it's a lockdown to get a lid on it, and I suspect if there are any issues he'll double it.
Bloomblue. Afraid I don't know how Australia dealt with incoming goods, but it's an island in the middle of nowhere and must depend upon certain imports. I know at work we received masses of PPE from China. Don't know how you would deal with 8000 lorries a day but there must be a way somehow - switch cabs at Dover/Felixstowe etc? | | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 05:24 - Feb 12 with 486 views | NewcyBlue |
The only issue is that there are thousands of British seafarers keeping the world going.
At the moment I am coming home from Singapore. I’ve been on a ship since 6th December. I have to follow strict protocols as a case of COVID on board would be very costly.
I have to be tested before I am allowed off in Singapore to go to the airport. In theory everyone in the airport should have a negative Covid test.
Therefore as a risk to the U.K. I am minimal. Seafarers have been designated as key workers but aren’t exempt from the hotel quarantine.
After Singapore we head to South America. My company will no doubt see it being cheaper to keep me on until the next Asia coast, having to pay me an extra 40% when I go beyond 16 weeks on board, than to pay to fly me home from South America and quarantine in a hotel. |  |
| |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 06:36 - Feb 12 with 476 views | IPS_wich |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 04:17 - Feb 12 by YarraBlue |
Latest from Victoria, Australia is that there's been an outbreak at the airport, 19 cases of the UK variant at present. So the State Governor has just announced a 5 day circuit breaker lockdown. He stated that we can't just contact trace this and catch up with it as it's the UK variant and too fast spreading, so it's a lockdown to get a lid on it, and I suspect if there are any issues he'll double it.
Bloomblue. Afraid I don't know how Australia dealt with incoming goods, but it's an island in the middle of nowhere and must depend upon certain imports. I know at work we received masses of PPE from China. Don't know how you would deal with 8000 lorries a day but there must be a way somehow - switch cabs at Dover/Felixstowe etc? |
Just to elaborate a bit on the Australia situation/response:
- In the last seven days there have been 42 new positive cases.
- 36 of these are individuals returning to Australia from overseas who have tested positive whilst still in quarantine; i.e. they either caught COVID overseas, on the plane or in quarantine (more on this latter point below).
- 6 of the new positive cases are not returning travellers, they are locally acquired. All are in Victoria and all (so far) are people who either work at the airport or within the quarantine hotels
- What worries all Australian authorities is 'community transmission'; i.e. a local catching it like these six have from contact with a returning traveller and then passing it on.
- This is why the Victorian premier has announced the five day lockdown - in the hope that if there has been any community transmission (which wouldn't be known yet), that anyone who may have caught it from these six locals don't then wander around and pass it on to someone else (i.e. it's nipped in the bud).
- In the last three months, Queensland (Brisbane), New South Wales (Sydney), South Australia (Adelaide) and Western Australia (Perth) have all had cases of local workers catching it either at the airport or at a quarantine hotel - and have had a five day immediate lockdown. In each case, the state has returned to normal after a couple of weeks and there's been no community spread.
- Pretty much the only weak link in the approach is the hotel quarantine - especially with the more transmissable mutations of the virus.
- The only major long term lockdown that's been experienced in Australia to date is the Victorian 12-week lockdown in August - October last year - which was because they tried to contain a hotel quarantine local case with a half arsed (UK style) lock down which didn't work.
- To contradict a couple of comments above about travellers into Australia. Since the start of the pandemic, there has a been a steady stream of travellers returning to Australia, but they are all: (a) Australian citizens; (b) moving back to Australia permanently; (c) or get an exemption on compassionate grounds; i.e. no one is coming to Australia for a holiday.
- For a few months, the Government encouraged all Australian citizens to return home. From the start of the pandemic, there has been a requirement for anyone coming into the country to quarantine. Initially there was no charge, but after six months (so last September), the Government said 'well you've had enough of chance to come back at the government's expense, so now you will have to pay $2,000 for the quarantine. This has led to some Australians effectively being stranded overseas because they've been trying for months to come back, but their flights keep getting cancelled (this is partly due to caps on the number of people allowed back each day, but mainly due to the chaos in the airline industry - just a couple of weeks ago Etihad announced they were cutting all flights into Australia at 24 hours notice - leaving lots of passengers with tickets stranded in other countries)
- No one is allowed to leave Australia unless: (a) they are non-Australian returning to their home country and not coming back; (b) an Australian citizen going overseas for at least 12 months. Even then, its a very lengthy application process to get approval to leave.
- At the height of the pandemic then the internal borders between states were shut. In WA (where I live) they even stopped travel between regions within the state (the equivalent in the UK would be like putting police on the A12 at the Suffolk/Essex border, on the A14 at the Suffolk/Cambs border and the A11 between Suffolk/Norfolk and not letting you through unless you had a special exemption. Some people who tried to sneak across the borders ended up in prison.
- Since COVID was effectively eradicated in the community the internal borders have opened, but when a State goes into lock down (like Victoria earlier today) then the other states do require travellers from the locked down state to quarantine for 14 days when they arrive in a new state. Over Christmas when New South Wales went into a snap lock down there were people on planes half way from Sydney to Perth (to visit family for Christmas) who were greeted at Perth airport by police and told they could either get back on a plane to Sydney immediately or would have to go into hotel quarantine for 14 days (this did not go down well!!)
- There has been a steady flow of goods in and out of the country, but given the distances that need to be travelled over sea to get here, everything comes in on containers, rather than on lorries that get driven off - so it's not really comparable to Dover. After a couple of early cases when crews on the container ships had COVID then they are not allowed to leave the ship when they berth. If there are positive cases now, they get airlifted off the ship and taken to an isolation ward.
And the consequence - we've had less than 1,000 COVID deaths since the start and other than the snap lockdowns, we are back to pre-pandemic life with the exception that we can't travel overseas and we can't have visitors. So my parents who were due to visit at Christmas couldn't come over - and the way things are going I doubt they will be allowed to come in December 2021.
YarraBlue is right - we have zero herd immunity in Australia - less that 0.01% of the population have had it - we are completely reliant on a full vaccine roll out.
Oh - and a lesson for Boris - most Australian leaders are sat at over 80% approval rating. [Post edited 12 Feb 2021 6:41]
| | | |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 07:24 - Feb 12 with 447 views | bluelagos |
| Labour calling for all arrivals to quarantine in hotels on 06:36 - Feb 12 by IPS_wich |
Just to elaborate a bit on the Australia situation/response:
- In the last seven days there have been 42 new positive cases.
- 36 of these are individuals returning to Australia from overseas who have tested positive whilst still in quarantine; i.e. they either caught COVID overseas, on the plane or in quarantine (more on this latter point below).
- 6 of the new positive cases are not returning travellers, they are locally acquired. All are in Victoria and all (so far) are people who either work at the airport or within the quarantine hotels
- What worries all Australian authorities is 'community transmission'; i.e. a local catching it like these six have from contact with a returning traveller and then passing it on.
- This is why the Victorian premier has announced the five day lockdown - in the hope that if there has been any community transmission (which wouldn't be known yet), that anyone who may have caught it from these six locals don't then wander around and pass it on to someone else (i.e. it's nipped in the bud).
- In the last three months, Queensland (Brisbane), New South Wales (Sydney), South Australia (Adelaide) and Western Australia (Perth) have all had cases of local workers catching it either at the airport or at a quarantine hotel - and have had a five day immediate lockdown. In each case, the state has returned to normal after a couple of weeks and there's been no community spread.
- Pretty much the only weak link in the approach is the hotel quarantine - especially with the more transmissable mutations of the virus.
- The only major long term lockdown that's been experienced in Australia to date is the Victorian 12-week lockdown in August - October last year - which was because they tried to contain a hotel quarantine local case with a half arsed (UK style) lock down which didn't work.
- To contradict a couple of comments above about travellers into Australia. Since the start of the pandemic, there has a been a steady stream of travellers returning to Australia, but they are all: (a) Australian citizens; (b) moving back to Australia permanently; (c) or get an exemption on compassionate grounds; i.e. no one is coming to Australia for a holiday.
- For a few months, the Government encouraged all Australian citizens to return home. From the start of the pandemic, there has been a requirement for anyone coming into the country to quarantine. Initially there was no charge, but after six months (so last September), the Government said 'well you've had enough of chance to come back at the government's expense, so now you will have to pay $2,000 for the quarantine. This has led to some Australians effectively being stranded overseas because they've been trying for months to come back, but their flights keep getting cancelled (this is partly due to caps on the number of people allowed back each day, but mainly due to the chaos in the airline industry - just a couple of weeks ago Etihad announced they were cutting all flights into Australia at 24 hours notice - leaving lots of passengers with tickets stranded in other countries)
- No one is allowed to leave Australia unless: (a) they are non-Australian returning to their home country and not coming back; (b) an Australian citizen going overseas for at least 12 months. Even then, its a very lengthy application process to get approval to leave.
- At the height of the pandemic then the internal borders between states were shut. In WA (where I live) they even stopped travel between regions within the state (the equivalent in the UK would be like putting police on the A12 at the Suffolk/Essex border, on the A14 at the Suffolk/Cambs border and the A11 between Suffolk/Norfolk and not letting you through unless you had a special exemption. Some people who tried to sneak across the borders ended up in prison.
- Since COVID was effectively eradicated in the community the internal borders have opened, but when a State goes into lock down (like Victoria earlier today) then the other states do require travellers from the locked down state to quarantine for 14 days when they arrive in a new state. Over Christmas when New South Wales went into a snap lock down there were people on planes half way from Sydney to Perth (to visit family for Christmas) who were greeted at Perth airport by police and told they could either get back on a plane to Sydney immediately or would have to go into hotel quarantine for 14 days (this did not go down well!!)
- There has been a steady flow of goods in and out of the country, but given the distances that need to be travelled over sea to get here, everything comes in on containers, rather than on lorries that get driven off - so it's not really comparable to Dover. After a couple of early cases when crews on the container ships had COVID then they are not allowed to leave the ship when they berth. If there are positive cases now, they get airlifted off the ship and taken to an isolation ward.
And the consequence - we've had less than 1,000 COVID deaths since the start and other than the snap lockdowns, we are back to pre-pandemic life with the exception that we can't travel overseas and we can't have visitors. So my parents who were due to visit at Christmas couldn't come over - and the way things are going I doubt they will be allowed to come in December 2021.
YarraBlue is right - we have zero herd immunity in Australia - less that 0.01% of the population have had it - we are completely reliant on a full vaccine roll out.
Oh - and a lesson for Boris - most Australian leaders are sat at over 80% approval rating. [Post edited 12 Feb 2021 6:41]
|
Am sure there are lessons we can learn, and Aus is clearly in a better position now than we are.
Worth noting a few differences too, namely we import a far higher share of our food, and much of that is by road/ferry/Eurotunnel rather than by contaainer ship.
And our solution is now visible, a vaccinated population with less transmission and crucially far lower rates of death from the vaccinated population.
How hard we now shut down our borders and for how long, far better informed people than me will decide based on the health benefits, social benefits and economic benefits of keeping our borders open/closed.
Sure the debate will go on for some time :-) | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
