| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport 09:34 - Feb 21 with 3610 views | StokieBlue |
After vaccinating half their population with the first dose they are opening up a number of sites such as gyms and religious locations but only if you've been vaccinated.
People will need a "green passport", based in an app, which proves they have been vaccinated or are exempt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56143126
How well would a system like that go down here? Looking at the papers today it would essentially mean that most things would stay closed for the younger age cohorts until the end of July. Doesn't seem that feasible given that timeline.
SB |  | | |  |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:40 - Feb 21 with 3066 views | Bluefish |
Hancock has already said he gets his ideas from the film Contagion so I expect we will do similar |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:41 - Feb 21 with 3064 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:40 - Feb 21 by Bluefish |
Hancock has already said he gets his ideas from the film Contagion so I expect we will do similar |
I've not seen it but I guess it's better he gets his ideas from there than from the CRG.
SB | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:42 - Feb 21 with 3061 views | pointofblue |
The younger generation have basically been in lockdown to protect the vulnerable and older generation, to prevent unmanageable numbers putting pressure on the NHS. I dread to think of the reaction if they have to stay in lockdown whilst the older generation can go out as they’ve had the vaccine. |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:48 - Feb 21 with 3037 views | WD19 |
Expecting people to take some personal responsibility for protecting themselves and others is an ‘assault on their personal Liberty’ - so it is never going to happen.
It looks like government policy is to hope the need for ‘holiday passports’, insisted on by other counties, will be enough to prompt people to do the right thing. |  | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:48 - Feb 21 with 3027 views | Bluefish |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:41 - Feb 21 by StokieBlue |
I've not seen it but I guess it's better he gets his ideas from there than from the CRG.
SB |
Worth watching, scarily accurate but might be different to watch having lived it opposed to before | |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:53 - Feb 21 with 3012 views | giant_stow |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:48 - Feb 21 by WD19 |
Expecting people to take some personal responsibility for protecting themselves and others is an ‘assault on their personal Liberty’ - so it is never going to happen.
It looks like government policy is to hope the need for ‘holiday passports’, insisted on by other counties, will be enough to prompt people to do the right thing. |
Bit harsh to frame it like that. Of course it would be the right thing for younger bods to play by these rules if they come into force, but of course it would smart a bit and feel unfair. It's always the young who get screwed, so they ought to be used it I spose. |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:05 - Feb 21 with 2993 views | WD19 |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:53 - Feb 21 by giant_stow |
Bit harsh to frame it like that. Of course it would be the right thing for younger bods to play by these rules if they come into force, but of course it would smart a bit and feel unfair. It's always the young who get screwed, so they ought to be used it I spose. |
To be honest, I wouldn’t actually expect the younger crowd to be the ones squealing the most if a passport was introduced. As you say, maybe they are just more pliable.
Some interesting developments in the social care sector in recent days. Patients (paying customers) refusing to be treated by staff who have chosen to not take the vaccine. Firms then having to ‘chose’ to not engage staff who chose not to be vaccinated. It’s going to get sticky. | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:20 - Feb 21 with 2975 views | footers |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:05 - Feb 21 by WD19 |
To be honest, I wouldn’t actually expect the younger crowd to be the ones squealing the most if a passport was introduced. As you say, maybe they are just more pliable.
Some interesting developments in the social care sector in recent days. Patients (paying customers) refusing to be treated by staff who have chosen to not take the vaccine. Firms then having to ‘chose’ to not engage staff who chose not to be vaccinated. It’s going to get sticky. |
If this pandemic has taught us one thing it's that stupidity and selfishness aren't exclusive to any particular age. It's pretty worrying really.
As someone under 40 and at no obvious risk, I wouldn't mind waiting for things to open up again if it meant protecting the vulnerable, but I know many will not agree.
Does anyone know the plans for this vaccine passport? I haven't seen anything myself but haven't been watching closely. Would definitely be in support if it increased compliance though. But our govt won't have the balls to do it, Shirley? |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:22 - Feb 21 with 2967 views | pointofblue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:20 - Feb 21 by footers |
If this pandemic has taught us one thing it's that stupidity and selfishness aren't exclusive to any particular age. It's pretty worrying really.
As someone under 40 and at no obvious risk, I wouldn't mind waiting for things to open up again if it meant protecting the vulnerable, but I know many will not agree.
Does anyone know the plans for this vaccine passport? I haven't seen anything myself but haven't been watching closely. Would definitely be in support if it increased compliance though. But our govt won't have the balls to do it, Shirley? |
The issue is opening up things to the vulnerable who have been vaccinated but telling the non-vulnerable who have not been given the jab to stay at home - that’s where tensions will arise. | |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:24 - Feb 21 with 2956 views | Ace_High1 |
I don't see why any sane person would have a problem with having a passport of some style.
Unless you are a conspiracy theorist, why would you not take the vaccine if you were eligible for one? Then you get a passport to say you have, and going forward for live sporting and music events, pubs etc you need to prove you have had the vaccine.
Its only the minority who have a problem with this, and they are choosing to not have the vaccine. That is fine they have that choice but then they cannot enjoy the freedoms the rest of us will have by taking the vaccine. |  | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:25 - Feb 21 with 2950 views | WD19 |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:20 - Feb 21 by footers |
If this pandemic has taught us one thing it's that stupidity and selfishness aren't exclusive to any particular age. It's pretty worrying really.
As someone under 40 and at no obvious risk, I wouldn't mind waiting for things to open up again if it meant protecting the vulnerable, but I know many will not agree.
Does anyone know the plans for this vaccine passport? I haven't seen anything myself but haven't been watching closely. Would definitely be in support if it increased compliance though. But our govt won't have the balls to do it, Shirley? |
That’s my take. They think it is unpalatable so they are going to rely on ‘nasty other countries’ and private business insisting on it so we don’t need to force it.
I am sure there will be a thriving market in fake vaccine certification soon enough. | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:29 - Feb 21 with 2938 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:24 - Feb 21 by Ace_High1 |
I don't see why any sane person would have a problem with having a passport of some style.
Unless you are a conspiracy theorist, why would you not take the vaccine if you were eligible for one? Then you get a passport to say you have, and going forward for live sporting and music events, pubs etc you need to prove you have had the vaccine.
Its only the minority who have a problem with this, and they are choosing to not have the vaccine. That is fine they have that choice but then they cannot enjoy the freedoms the rest of us will have by taking the vaccine. |
There were a number of people even on here who had an issue with it. Felt it was a slippery slope towards national ID cards, identification for voting etc.
Of course the usage of slipper slope is almost always a logical fallacy but for some these things are an obvious progression and erosion of civil liberties.
Then there is the cohort (including myself) who have no issue with some form of national ID where all kinds of things could be centralised. Many other countries have such a system and haven't turned into dystopian dictatorships yet.
SB | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:36 - Feb 21 with 2919 views | 26_Paz |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 09:42 - Feb 21 by pointofblue |
The younger generation have basically been in lockdown to protect the vulnerable and older generation, to prevent unmanageable numbers putting pressure on the NHS. I dread to think of the reaction if they have to stay in lockdown whilst the older generation can go out as they’ve had the vaccine. |
Exactly this. It would be ridiculous. Once we start opening things up there may be an increase in infections but shouldn’t be much of an issue if the vulnerable are immune. |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:40 - Feb 21 with 2918 views | pointofblue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:36 - Feb 21 by 26_Paz |
Exactly this. It would be ridiculous. Once we start opening things up there may be an increase in infections but shouldn’t be much of an issue if the vulnerable are immune. |
Not exactly, the issue is if the younger generation catch and circulate the virus then it may mutate, making the vaccines weaker, even if those who have it are not affected beyond a couple of days in bed.
To be blunt the, albeit selfish, solution is to keep the borders closed to all but trade and get everyone vaccinated. Put all funding into the airlines to keep furlough etc. going until the world is in a more stable state to allow global travel again. | |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:49 - Feb 21 with 2894 views | WD19 |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:36 - Feb 21 by 26_Paz |
Exactly this. It would be ridiculous. Once we start opening things up there may be an increase in infections but shouldn’t be much of an issue if the vulnerable are immune. |
As pointofblue says, unfortunately it is not that simple.
I wonder if the reason for the ‘all adults will be offered a vaccine by July’ promise is basically the sugar to sweeten the pill that many restrictions will effectively stay in place until then. Speaking as someone who thought they might have to wait Until October, July is a very different proposition. | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:50 - Feb 21 with 2892 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:36 - Feb 21 by 26_Paz |
Exactly this. It would be ridiculous. Once we start opening things up there may be an increase in infections but shouldn’t be much of an issue if the vulnerable are immune. |
I think you need to be careful defining a formal "vulnerable cohort" given there are likely a lot of people in the younger cohorts who have some form of vulnerability but have thus far been protected due to restrictions.
That isn't a reason for not opening up, just pointing out that we can't specify a specific "vulnerable" cohort, only do our best to limit the risks to known factors like age.
There are other things to consider though, such as levels of long covid in younger cohorts and potential for mutations if cases rocket. One bad mutation which goes beyond the E484K mutation and the vaccinations could be for nothing. All these things need to be weighted up and balanced when considering how fast and where to open things up.
SB | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 11:31 - Feb 21 with 2858 views | BlueBadger |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:25 - Feb 21 by WD19 |
That’s my take. They think it is unpalatable so they are going to rely on ‘nasty other countries’ and private business insisting on it so we don’t need to force it.
I am sure there will be a thriving market in fake vaccine certification soon enough. |
A simple digital passport app on phones would be the way to go. It should be a relatively quick and easy thing to put together which could be part funded by charging for paper copes for those who are unable/unwilling to go digital.
I say 'should' because the UK track and trace, a relatively simple thing, has cost more than sending a probe to Mars AND giving and extra £350M a week to the NHS combined... |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 11:41 - Feb 21 with 2833 views | bluelagos |
Don't think it will happen for a number of reasons.
The idea that a pub or a shop or a restaurant, that has had the best part of 12 months of economic pain, is going to happily turn away customers because they haven't had a vaccine...
It would need a level of buy in from the various trades, not just hospitality but hair dressers, gym owners etc. etc.
It would also need a level of competence from the govt in designing a scheme whether that is electronic or hard to fake paper based.
And even if you mastered all that, does anything think it reasonable to say ban an OAP from a shop or hairdressers because they don't have a 4g phone?
Where I do think it is a goer is in the travel industry, but I just don't see it working effectively in the UK ordinarily.
Much like the recording of details whenever we went into pubs last year. It quickly became an exercise with very little compliance from what I saw, primarily because it was a barrier to business at a time when pubs were desperate for your custom. Hence man publicans did as little as possible to accurately record details from people who didn't want to give them... |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:09 - Feb 21 with 2743 views | Guthrum |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 11:41 - Feb 21 by bluelagos |
Don't think it will happen for a number of reasons.
The idea that a pub or a shop or a restaurant, that has had the best part of 12 months of economic pain, is going to happily turn away customers because they haven't had a vaccine...
It would need a level of buy in from the various trades, not just hospitality but hair dressers, gym owners etc. etc.
It would also need a level of competence from the govt in designing a scheme whether that is electronic or hard to fake paper based.
And even if you mastered all that, does anything think it reasonable to say ban an OAP from a shop or hairdressers because they don't have a 4g phone?
Where I do think it is a goer is in the travel industry, but I just don't see it working effectively in the UK ordinarily.
Much like the recording of details whenever we went into pubs last year. It quickly became an exercise with very little compliance from what I saw, primarily because it was a barrier to business at a time when pubs were desperate for your custom. Hence man publicans did as little as possible to accurately record details from people who didn't want to give them... |
It's also unnecessarily divisive (and probably also expensive) for relatively little gain. If enough people have been vaccinated to make the scheme viable, to make the numbers able to come worth opening the venues, then almost everybody down to the lowest age-groups will have been offered the chance of vaccination anyway, rendering it superfluous.
All it would do is discriminate against a few of people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, in order to put pressure on the tiny number who have already resisted all public messaging and peer influences, thus would likely reject that ruse, too. |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:15 - Feb 21 with 2735 views | ElderGrizzly |
There has already been a contract awarded for the feasibility into it.
Meetings have been taking place since mid-January |  | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:35 - Feb 21 with 2719 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:24 - Feb 21 by Ace_High1 |
I don't see why any sane person would have a problem with having a passport of some style.
Unless you are a conspiracy theorist, why would you not take the vaccine if you were eligible for one? Then you get a passport to say you have, and going forward for live sporting and music events, pubs etc you need to prove you have had the vaccine.
Its only the minority who have a problem with this, and they are choosing to not have the vaccine. That is fine they have that choice but then they cannot enjoy the freedoms the rest of us will have by taking the vaccine. |
Yeah, bloody minorities! Is it because they is black? |  |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:37 - Feb 21 with 2715 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 10:29 - Feb 21 by StokieBlue |
There were a number of people even on here who had an issue with it. Felt it was a slippery slope towards national ID cards, identification for voting etc.
Of course the usage of slipper slope is almost always a logical fallacy but for some these things are an obvious progression and erosion of civil liberties.
Then there is the cohort (including myself) who have no issue with some form of national ID where all kinds of things could be centralised. Many other countries have such a system and haven't turned into dystopian dictatorships yet.
SB |
"Yet"
It is like Trump never happened already! | |
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| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 14:05 - Feb 21 with 2687 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:09 - Feb 21 by Guthrum |
It's also unnecessarily divisive (and probably also expensive) for relatively little gain. If enough people have been vaccinated to make the scheme viable, to make the numbers able to come worth opening the venues, then almost everybody down to the lowest age-groups will have been offered the chance of vaccination anyway, rendering it superfluous.
All it would do is discriminate against a few of people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, in order to put pressure on the tiny number who have already resisted all public messaging and peer influences, thus would likely reject that ruse, too. |
The Israeli system takes into account those who can't have it for medical reasons - they get the green passport automatically in those cases.
SB | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 14:07 - Feb 21 with 2675 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 13:37 - Feb 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"Yet"
It is like Trump never happened already! |
This really isn't an argument, in fact it's just another angle of the slippery slope fallacy.
Places like Germany and France have had national ID cards for decades and it's not happened.
Give an example where it has happened?
SB | | | |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 14:17 - Feb 21 with 2664 views | footers |
| Israel easing restrictions but only if you have a vaccination passport on 14:07 - Feb 21 by StokieBlue |
This really isn't an argument, in fact it's just another angle of the slippery slope fallacy.
Places like Germany and France have had national ID cards for decades and it's not happened.
Give an example where it has happened?
SB |
If anything the French and Germans seem to have become much less stringent when it comes to carrying ID cards. Don't think many get pulled up for it any more, even if it is a requirement. Think they look less favourably on it in Spain though, but that's usually the Guardia Civil being their usual dickish selves. | |
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