| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager 09:50 - Mar 28 with 2437 views | ZXBlue |
I iknow its frustrating, and I know its been going on for a long time now. But much of the "analysis" of recent games just reads like petulant kids hitting out at a target because they didn't get what they wanted. It was (quitye rightly) Lambert. Then Evans. Now its the players and for someeven the new manager. The old and tired "don't want it enough" line and all that goes with it, is a poor substitute for actual analysis.
Changes are going to take time. Re organising, re-coaching, resetting mindsets, adjusting the squad and team to get the right balance. All takes time. It is FAR too early to conclude that the players are bad, the system is bad etc.
Two and a half years of a particular approach being drummed into them, and a particular mindset int he dressing room cannot just be dismissed in a few weeks. If a player has been criticised every time he takes a risk and loses the ball, for two years, those habits take time to change.
Suppoort your team folks, and criticise in six months' time if things are not moving on. By starting all this already, you are contributing to a toxic atmosphere around the club and players which is bound to have a negative effect.
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 09:53 - Mar 28 with 2418 views | blueprint |
The players have got off lightly TBF. This is the problem too many fans are happy to accept mediocrity . |  | | |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 10:10 - Mar 28 with 2372 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Here again with 'Its the former managers fault' Lambert was a bad manager sure, but the issue goes way beyond Lambert, Hurst, McCarthy, Jewell, Keane or even Cook.
The ethos at the club is all wrong, totally wrong. We've got an owner who is never there, gives managers time even when its clear that there can be no recovery and because he wont talk to the fans or the media except in statements or managed media interviews (2 in 12 years), he is completely unaccountable for the failures of ITFC over the last 12 years.
That kind of structure only breeds apathy amongst the players, even if its unconscious. Why should they care when the guy paying the wages doesn't seem to and the ground they play in is becoming run down?
The club is rotten, and now its gotten to the players, its almost come full circle.
Evans Out. |  |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 10:18 - Mar 28 with 2344 views | Chrisd |
Not sure many are turning on PC at this early stage, but the players have been allowed to get away with a lot of substandard displays over the last few seasons and disappointing results. First the blame was aimed at PH, then PL and now PC, but it can’t all be their fault. At what point are the players held accountable? Now I believe we are all seeing it unravel, previously we had these inflated opinions of our players where in fact a lot of them L1 is their level. [Post edited 28 Mar 2021 10:20]
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 10:39 - Mar 28 with 2304 views | MrTown |
The players were very very lucky that PL took the wrath of the fans frustrations.
We now have a top class proven manager, I won’t be turning on PC at any point - he will sort this out. |  |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 11:32 - Mar 28 with 2267 views | ghostofescobar |
The reason our club has fallen apart is because the blame has never consistently focussed on the one person it should i.e. Evans. If the fans ire was focussed on Evans, things might actually change. Instead we blame the players, then the manager, then the players and on and on, while Evans gets away relatively unscathed, slowly killing our club. And the club will continue slowly suffocating whilst Evans stays. |  |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:12 - Mar 28 with 2223 views | Chrisd |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 11:32 - Mar 28 by ghostofescobar |
The reason our club has fallen apart is because the blame has never consistently focussed on the one person it should i.e. Evans. If the fans ire was focussed on Evans, things might actually change. Instead we blame the players, then the manager, then the players and on and on, while Evans gets away relatively unscathed, slowly killing our club. And the club will continue slowly suffocating whilst Evans stays. |
The players have rarely been blamed, there’s always other reasons for poor displays and that is part of the problem. I certainly agree with your point about ME, it’s all gone quiet again since PC’s appointment. Just felt prior to that things were starting to build against him especially with PL going to the media and he was getting some heat from various areas. It’s now settled down again, so he can hide away amongst the shadows without drawing attention. He needs to go, his time here has long expired. | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:16 - Mar 28 with 2214 views | ZXBlue |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:12 - Mar 28 by Chrisd |
The players have rarely been blamed, there’s always other reasons for poor displays and that is part of the problem. I certainly agree with your point about ME, it’s all gone quiet again since PC’s appointment. Just felt prior to that things were starting to build against him especially with PL going to the media and he was getting some heat from various areas. It’s now settled down again, so he can hide away amongst the shadows without drawing attention. He needs to go, his time here has long expired. |
Not true. One or two of them are constantly scapegoated.
The point is that we do not know yet, whether they are the issue or not. By laying into them now, we significantly decrease the likelihood of them becoming more confident, or of the better ones wanting to stick around. We make it more difficult for PC to take things forward.
It was ever thus with Town fans unfortunately. | | | |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:18 - Mar 28 with 2202 views | SomethingBlue |
We are a mid-table League One club and that is not all on Paul Lambert, dreadful though he turned out to be. Time for the excuses and repeated let-offs to end. | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:21 - Mar 28 with 2189 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 10:39 - Mar 28 by MrTown |
The players were very very lucky that PL took the wrath of the fans frustrations.
We now have a top class proven manager, I won’t be turning on PC at any point - he will sort this out. |
For me, if Paul Cook fails, it is very much Evans out at all costs. We have a manager that is easily good enough to get us out of this division and build upon that. |  |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:22 - Mar 28 with 2184 views | Chrisd |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:16 - Mar 28 by ZXBlue |
Not true. One or two of them are constantly scapegoated.
The point is that we do not know yet, whether they are the issue or not. By laying into them now, we significantly decrease the likelihood of them becoming more confident, or of the better ones wanting to stick around. We make it more difficult for PC to take things forward.
It was ever thus with Town fans unfortunately. |
Look at the results and performances, those speak volumes and we’ve even got a new manager in and nothing has changed. Think that’s pretty evident. | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:29 - Mar 28 with 2165 views | Behind_Enemy_Lines |
Yes indeed very true, you could also add in that the squad is not fit enough and have been coasting the last couple of years. Maybe it is the players fault but as recent developments this week have happened we cannot even do double sessions for consecutive days. That is down to the last management team. One of the biggest factors to also consider is Confidence in the player and team itself which is showing each and every game. |  | | |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:33 - Mar 28 with 2157 views | MrTown |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:21 - Mar 28 by Kropotkin123 |
For me, if Paul Cook fails, it is very much Evans out at all costs. We have a manager that is easily good enough to get us out of this division and build upon that. |
We have a top 10 championship manager.
We have a mid table L1 squad, who are stealing a living on overpaid wages at a big club.
When they are released PC will bring in value for money players he can trust. | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:47 - Mar 28 with 2094 views | Parky |
The players have been let off very lightly in my opinion, considering they’re the ones that have been rolling out drab performances for years on end.
I think it was Bialkowski and Mcgoldrick both made comments along the lines of “there is no pressure to do well” at the club. We have a failure mentality within the club, we get relegated - ‘ah well, we go again next season’. We finish 11th last season ‘ah well, we go again next season’.
There has been absolutely no reprimand or punishment for constant failure along the years. The sooner Cook clears that out, the better. Unfortunately, that should include Chambers, Skuse and many other senior players who have all contributed to the issues. [Post edited 28 Mar 2021 13:47]
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:55 - Mar 28 with 2062 views | pennblue |
If you were a player and saw the constant negativity on here, lets face it, you would think "feck that lot, I'll take the cash on the contract thanks and move on". | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:57 - Mar 28 with 2060 views | textbackup |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:55 - Mar 28 by pennblue |
If you were a player and saw the constant negativity on here, lets face it, you would think "feck that lot, I'll take the cash on the contract thanks and move on". |
you reckon they deserve praise and encouragement for failing year on year then?
*many of the same players that got praise for going down so pathetically, and didn't step up there after? [Post edited 28 Mar 2021 13:58]
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:59 - Mar 28 with 2048 views | Herbivore |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:47 - Mar 28 by Parky |
The players have been let off very lightly in my opinion, considering they’re the ones that have been rolling out drab performances for years on end.
I think it was Bialkowski and Mcgoldrick both made comments along the lines of “there is no pressure to do well” at the club. We have a failure mentality within the club, we get relegated - ‘ah well, we go again next season’. We finish 11th last season ‘ah well, we go again next season’.
There has been absolutely no reprimand or punishment for constant failure along the years. The sooner Cook clears that out, the better. Unfortunately, that should include Chambers, Skuse and many other senior players who have all contributed to the issues. [Post edited 28 Mar 2021 13:47]
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Not sure I agree with that analysis. Both Lambert and Hurst took an approach where players were pilloried for mistakes, sometimes publicly. That's not an acceptance of underperformance, but it's also not good man management.
Our issue is not so much that players are too comfortable or don't care, they play with fear. Everything is so risk averse. That comes from nearly 3 years of management where mistakes get called out openly. It comes from 2.5 years of Lambert constantly telling the press that "we need a bit of help" despite him having put together a massive squad.
All of that seeps into the players' mentality and goes some way to explaining what Cook is seeing in terms of the players always looking for someone else to make something happen. They've been told for 2.5 years that it'll be someone else who needs to come in and do that for them, then those players arrive and nothing really changes because they are coming into a side that hasn't been coached to play cohesively as a team.
If you want players to perform you have to give them belief, not fear of failure. |  |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 14:10 - Mar 28 with 2027 views | Parky |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 13:59 - Mar 28 by Herbivore |
Not sure I agree with that analysis. Both Lambert and Hurst took an approach where players were pilloried for mistakes, sometimes publicly. That's not an acceptance of underperformance, but it's also not good man management.
Our issue is not so much that players are too comfortable or don't care, they play with fear. Everything is so risk averse. That comes from nearly 3 years of management where mistakes get called out openly. It comes from 2.5 years of Lambert constantly telling the press that "we need a bit of help" despite him having put together a massive squad.
All of that seeps into the players' mentality and goes some way to explaining what Cook is seeing in terms of the players always looking for someone else to make something happen. They've been told for 2.5 years that it'll be someone else who needs to come in and do that for them, then those players arrive and nothing really changes because they are coming into a side that hasn't been coached to play cohesively as a team.
If you want players to perform you have to give them belief, not fear of failure. |
It’s ok to agree to disagree.
If you don’t think the players have had an easy ride, then I can’t fathom what you’ve been watching. I’m not specifically talking about players being criticised for a few bad performances, I’m talking about the bigger picture; that failure within our current squad has always been accepted.
Two of our best players in the last decade have came out and said openly that at the club, there is no pressure to win or succeed, ultimately it doesn’t matter if they don’t achieve their aims, because it will be accepted. I fully believe in that and that needs to change. | | | |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 14:13 - Mar 28 with 2023 views | textbackup |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 14:10 - Mar 28 by Parky |
It’s ok to agree to disagree.
If you don’t think the players have had an easy ride, then I can’t fathom what you’ve been watching. I’m not specifically talking about players being criticised for a few bad performances, I’m talking about the bigger picture; that failure within our current squad has always been accepted.
Two of our best players in the last decade have came out and said openly that at the club, there is no pressure to win or succeed, ultimately it doesn’t matter if they don’t achieve their aims, because it will be accepted. I fully believe in that and that needs to change. |
when my wife, or workmates, ask me "how did you get on today/at the weekend" I feel embarrassed saying "oh lost again"
where as I couldn't see them lot feeling that, and Im not stupid to think they'll have the passion of a fan, but even personal/professional pride seems gone from them lot. | |
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| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 15:40 - Mar 28 with 1954 views | stonojnr |
| Too many are too quick to turn on both players and manager on 12:16 - Mar 28 by ZXBlue |
Not true. One or two of them are constantly scapegoated.
The point is that we do not know yet, whether they are the issue or not. By laying into them now, we significantly decrease the likelihood of them becoming more confident, or of the better ones wanting to stick around. We make it more difficult for PC to take things forward.
It was ever thus with Town fans unfortunately. |
you might have a point if the fans were in stadiums criticising the players or booing every false touch, but they are playing in empty stadiums, they will only pick up on fan criticism by spending too much time on social media or trolling through forums.
so I dont buy that, thats an excuse for them to hide behind.
people criticsed Lambert heavily for the kind of performances Cook is delivering now, so if Cook is the better manager but the results are the same, who elses fault is it really ? the groundsman for not cutting the grass properly ?
the players have to take responsibility for the performances they put out, they are supposed to be professional footballers, but we dont seem to have that football cliche of big characters, or leaders in the dressing room that can cajole a team of players to lead them.
its summed up by I think Cook could drop the whole team from yesterday, and would any of them complain ? or be storming in the the managers office demanding to know why ? or how dare he ? no probably not theyd carry on as before, just as Lambert found when he sent players to the reserves. | | | |
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