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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... 03:04 - Apr 10 with 3693 viewsSpruceMoose

...haven't they?

Not only that, but the supposed left wing opposition powers, along with many unions themselves, seem to have utterly failed at advancing an argument as to why unionisation and work rights are so important to everyday people like you and me. Depressing times we are living in.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56695667
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:12]

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:15 - Apr 10 with 2089 viewsBlueBadger

The American Dream innit. There are no poor Americans, merely millionaires who's fallen on hard times. Joining a union is an admission of defeat and communism and cuckism.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:19 - Apr 10 with 2085 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:15 - Apr 10 by BlueBadger

The American Dream innit. There are no poor Americans, merely millionaires who's fallen on hard times. Joining a union is an admission of defeat and communism and cuckism.


Spot on. A nation of Del Boys, all believing that this time next year they will be millionaires, so they'd better not support taxing the rich or standing up to big business because, any day now, Lord have mercy, they will be one of that group.

In the meantime, best put off going to the doctor about that lump on your nut as it'll cost a fortune to check out on the health insurance the company are selling you.

Are things really that different back in the UK though? From my view over here, many Brits seem to have no problem whatsoever acting against their own best interests.
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:24]

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:21 - Apr 10 with 2081 viewsBlueBadger

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:19 - Apr 10 by SpruceMoose

Spot on. A nation of Del Boys, all believing that this time next year they will be millionaires, so they'd better not support taxing the rich or standing up to big business because, any day now, Lord have mercy, they will be one of that group.

In the meantime, best put off going to the doctor about that lump on your nut as it'll cost a fortune to check out on the health insurance the company are selling you.

Are things really that different back in the UK though? From my view over here, many Brits seem to have no problem whatsoever acting against their own best interests.
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:24]


That's not true. They'll only vote against their interests if the person shafting them has a REALLY big stiffy for the Union Flag.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:01 - Apr 10 with 2038 viewsurbanblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 03:19 - Apr 10 by SpruceMoose

Spot on. A nation of Del Boys, all believing that this time next year they will be millionaires, so they'd better not support taxing the rich or standing up to big business because, any day now, Lord have mercy, they will be one of that group.

In the meantime, best put off going to the doctor about that lump on your nut as it'll cost a fortune to check out on the health insurance the company are selling you.

Are things really that different back in the UK though? From my view over here, many Brits seem to have no problem whatsoever acting against their own best interests.
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:24]


Same here in Australia ... Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:08 - Apr 10 with 2029 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:01 - Apr 10 by urbanblue

Same here in Australia ... Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.


Nuts isn't it? Media, Government, Business. The unholy trinity working in harmony to poison the well.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:49 - Apr 10 with 2003 viewsIPS_wich

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:01 - Apr 10 by urbanblue

Same here in Australia ... Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.


Although (and I may be wrong) the States have more power in Australia than they do in the US.

The states run most of the local social services (health, police, education, housing) and federally they do a lot more in defence, economic development and setting the laws of the land.

As someone who used to vote LibDem in the UK, I quite like the mix of the right wing leading federally and left wing at a state level (although I acknowledge only three of the six states have this combination).

I voted Labor in the recent state elections and will probably vote Liberal at the next federal election.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:07 - Apr 10 with 1923 viewsGeoffSentence

Never ceases to amaze me how many people who aren't rich or powerful, vote for the party of the rich and powerful this side of the pond.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:15 - Apr 10 with 1894 views26_Paz

Some people aren’t socialists. Get over it.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:18 - Apr 10 with 1887 viewsGeoffSentence

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:15 - Apr 10 by 26_Paz

Some people aren’t socialists. Get over it.


You dont have to be a socialist to join a union. Nor to be concerned about people being exploited by their paymasters.

Out damned scot Out I say
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:47 - Apr 10 with 1840 viewsChurchman

It never ceases to amaze me how people underestimate the importance of Unions, where they came from and why. An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee and few are as benign as Cadbury were in the 19c.

I know Unions can sometimes get involved and do things that I don’t think they should, but that’s life and the reality is they’re a force for good and the only representation you have as an employee. They can be the difference between losing or keeping your job, half decent pay and conditions and better behaviour by employers and staff in the workplace.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have the opportunity of representation - self employed, small companies etc, but there is a place for them and where there is an opportunity to join one, I believe employees are utterly insane not to do so.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:57 - Apr 10 with 1812 viewseastangliaisblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:47 - Apr 10 by Churchman

It never ceases to amaze me how people underestimate the importance of Unions, where they came from and why. An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee and few are as benign as Cadbury were in the 19c.

I know Unions can sometimes get involved and do things that I don’t think they should, but that’s life and the reality is they’re a force for good and the only representation you have as an employee. They can be the difference between losing or keeping your job, half decent pay and conditions and better behaviour by employers and staff in the workplace.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have the opportunity of representation - self employed, small companies etc, but there is a place for them and where there is an opportunity to join one, I believe employees are utterly insane not to do so.


I'm lucky enough to be a member of one. What they provide for what you pay is immeasurable . You're right what you say. If you get the chance to join one do, because it's insane not to.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:29 - Apr 10 with 1748 viewsChurchman

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:57 - Apr 10 by eastangliaisblue

I'm lucky enough to be a member of one. What they provide for what you pay is immeasurable . You're right what you say. If you get the chance to join one do, because it's insane not to.


I have worked in places with no representation, ‘staff associations’ and my last job, a proper Trade Union (still an associate member). I know which I prefer.

As another poster has suggested, this is actually not about being a socialist. This is about representation. It’s about having support if you need it and access to a pool of knowledge too.

The Trade Unions are still defined by their image of the 60s and 70s, beer and sandwiches at no 10, Red Robbo, King Arthur, pickets, braziers, with burning pallet wood in them.

That’s the image but the reality is different. The boss of my union has been hammered in the press in the past. I’ve met him a couple of times and know people that have worked with him. He is not as his image was portrayed. I also did some study work on the steelworkers and miners strike in the 80s and visited Sheffield, by chance. That was not as the media portrayed it either. The press have a lot to answer for.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:34 - Apr 10 with 1735 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:29 - Apr 10 by Churchman

I have worked in places with no representation, ‘staff associations’ and my last job, a proper Trade Union (still an associate member). I know which I prefer.

As another poster has suggested, this is actually not about being a socialist. This is about representation. It’s about having support if you need it and access to a pool of knowledge too.

The Trade Unions are still defined by their image of the 60s and 70s, beer and sandwiches at no 10, Red Robbo, King Arthur, pickets, braziers, with burning pallet wood in them.

That’s the image but the reality is different. The boss of my union has been hammered in the press in the past. I’ve met him a couple of times and know people that have worked with him. He is not as his image was portrayed. I also did some study work on the steelworkers and miners strike in the 80s and visited Sheffield, by chance. That was not as the media portrayed it either. The press have a lot to answer for.


Having spent many an hour on picket lines and helping at soup kitchens around West Yorkshire during the strike was certainly an eye opener regarding the press and how they report events. Seeing a vicar being truncheoned by the Mets finest was a particular highlight.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:35 - Apr 10 with 1734 viewseastangliaisblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:29 - Apr 10 by Churchman

I have worked in places with no representation, ‘staff associations’ and my last job, a proper Trade Union (still an associate member). I know which I prefer.

As another poster has suggested, this is actually not about being a socialist. This is about representation. It’s about having support if you need it and access to a pool of knowledge too.

The Trade Unions are still defined by their image of the 60s and 70s, beer and sandwiches at no 10, Red Robbo, King Arthur, pickets, braziers, with burning pallet wood in them.

That’s the image but the reality is different. The boss of my union has been hammered in the press in the past. I’ve met him a couple of times and know people that have worked with him. He is not as his image was portrayed. I also did some study work on the steelworkers and miners strike in the 80s and visited Sheffield, by chance. That was not as the media portrayed it either. The press have a lot to answer for.


You're spot on with the image being different to the reality. There are so many benefits like health cover, life insurance, legal advice, to name a few. That's before you even get into the work benefits like H&S, pay rises etc.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:49 - Apr 10 with 1620 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:15 - Apr 10 by 26_Paz

Some people aren’t socialists. Get over it.


Posts like this tell us so much about your intellect Paz.

The funniest thing is that you wouldn't give a union your money, yet you happily give it to the Conservative Party!

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 13:06 - Apr 10 with 1573 viewsClapham_Junction

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:15 - Apr 10 by 26_Paz

Some people aren’t socialists. Get over it.


In sensible countries unions aren't seen as being left or right-wing, they're just there to give workers a voice.

Sadly I think I'd class the UK as a Stockholm syndrome country nowadays.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 14:08 - Apr 10 with 1500 viewseireblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 13:06 - Apr 10 by Clapham_Junction

In sensible countries unions aren't seen as being left or right-wing, they're just there to give workers a voice.

Sadly I think I'd class the UK as a Stockholm syndrome country nowadays.


After WWII, the allies under the UN, realised that the basic human freedoms were not really sufficient, especially after witnessing the actions of the Nazi’s.

The Universal Human Rights declaration includes the right to form and join a union.

Now, I am definitely not saying Paz seems to be against the principles formed by the people that defeated the Nazi’s. And in no way should people take any inference of where Paz would be placed on a line between Nazi’s and people that wrote the Human rights declaration.

Maybe, just maybe, we should be more kind, and assume that Paz is just ignorant of this history, and is unaware of the human rights that were established after WWII.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 14:52 - Apr 10 with 1435 viewsborge

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:47 - Apr 10 by Churchman

It never ceases to amaze me how people underestimate the importance of Unions, where they came from and why. An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee and few are as benign as Cadbury were in the 19c.

I know Unions can sometimes get involved and do things that I don’t think they should, but that’s life and the reality is they’re a force for good and the only representation you have as an employee. They can be the difference between losing or keeping your job, half decent pay and conditions and better behaviour by employers and staff in the workplace.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have the opportunity of representation - self employed, small companies etc, but there is a place for them and where there is an opportunity to join one, I believe employees are utterly insane not to do so.


"An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee"....

That's a pretty sweeping statement and grossly unfair in the majority of cases.

I haven't worked in an industry where there are unions and have never worked for anything other than small companies so don't have much experience of unions. But, as someone who owns two companies and employs 20 people, I can assure you that as much as you may think workers have very limited rights, in certain instances they actually have more than their employer (granted, that assumes that the employer acts within the law).

Only this week there has been a conversation on here where someone has been encouraged to hand in their notice and then leave before their notice period ends. That is absolutely possible and there is very little an employer can do (unless they want to throw away money for very, very little gain).

Conversely, as an employer I cannot simply dispense of someone's services without opening myself up to significant legal action that will cost an awful lot to defend, I will likely lose and will possibly lead to substantial reputational damage. As long as that employee does an 'ok' job and doesn't physically assault me/a colleague/client (slightly flippant but to sack someone for gross misconduct they almost need to have punched someone) once they have been in post for two years there is almost zero I can sensibly do in terms of getting rid, whereas they can up and leave on the spot, head off to a competitor and know they are free of consequences.

That's not to say that unions aren't worthwhile. Although I have no direct experience I am completely conscious that if you work for a massive company that is only concerned with delivering for shareholders, you are more exposed to unscrupulous behaviour.

But, your statement is greatly unfair to the many, many good employers that do care for their employees and realise that doing the right thing by employees has a very big impact on the bottom line.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:06 - Apr 10 with 1406 viewsjontysnut

Encouragingly staff at my workplace have just voted in favour of union recognition and signs are that a good proportion will join.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:11 - Apr 10 with 1386 viewsgtsb1966

I was in a union for 31 years and all I will say is if you have the chance then join one. Only an idiot wouldn't.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:21 - Apr 10 with 1346 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 14:52 - Apr 10 by borge

"An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee"....

That's a pretty sweeping statement and grossly unfair in the majority of cases.

I haven't worked in an industry where there are unions and have never worked for anything other than small companies so don't have much experience of unions. But, as someone who owns two companies and employs 20 people, I can assure you that as much as you may think workers have very limited rights, in certain instances they actually have more than their employer (granted, that assumes that the employer acts within the law).

Only this week there has been a conversation on here where someone has been encouraged to hand in their notice and then leave before their notice period ends. That is absolutely possible and there is very little an employer can do (unless they want to throw away money for very, very little gain).

Conversely, as an employer I cannot simply dispense of someone's services without opening myself up to significant legal action that will cost an awful lot to defend, I will likely lose and will possibly lead to substantial reputational damage. As long as that employee does an 'ok' job and doesn't physically assault me/a colleague/client (slightly flippant but to sack someone for gross misconduct they almost need to have punched someone) once they have been in post for two years there is almost zero I can sensibly do in terms of getting rid, whereas they can up and leave on the spot, head off to a competitor and know they are free of consequences.

That's not to say that unions aren't worthwhile. Although I have no direct experience I am completely conscious that if you work for a massive company that is only concerned with delivering for shareholders, you are more exposed to unscrupulous behaviour.

But, your statement is greatly unfair to the many, many good employers that do care for their employees and realise that doing the right thing by employees has a very big impact on the bottom line.


Just a point to say that the situation in America is very different to the one in the UK, and in general you absolutely can be dismissed here for any reason whatsoever, at any time.

The fact that this isn't often the case in the UK may have something to do with the role unions have played over the years.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:24 - Apr 10 with 1335 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:11 - Apr 10 by gtsb1966

I was in a union for 31 years and all I will say is if you have the chance then join one. Only an idiot wouldn't.


Paz then LOL.

Also GTSB, why the ANL avatar?! :(

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:27 - Apr 10 with 1323 viewsgtsb1966

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:24 - Apr 10 by monytowbray

Paz then LOL.

Also GTSB, why the ANL avatar?! :(


I just like the band that's all. Music from my youth.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:28 - Apr 10 with 1321 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:27 - Apr 10 by gtsb1966

I just like the band that's all. Music from my youth.


It’s their lyrics that make me feel ill. Norwich boycotted them for a gig a few years back and was successful.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:29 - Apr 10 with 1314 viewsborge

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:21 - Apr 10 by SpruceMoose

Just a point to say that the situation in America is very different to the one in the UK, and in general you absolutely can be dismissed here for any reason whatsoever, at any time.

The fact that this isn't often the case in the UK may have something to do with the role unions have played over the years.


Yes, appreciate the US is a very different kettle of fish. We have clients there and sometimes find someone is there one day and the next their role has been 'eliminated'.

And yes, quite possibly ref unions and the UK, but I think it is also down to culture. America seems to have a culture which combines fear (of getting fired if you speak up) and hope ("this time next year....").
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