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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester 07:18 - May 13 with 11880 viewsGlasgowBlue

If they are not sold, although I believe they will be, then how are they ever going to give 100% for Paul Cook knowing that he doesn’t really want them?

Staggered that any of the above players are on his list of unwanted. They should be the future of our club. And what message does it send out to the likes of Baggott and any other promising youths in the under 18’s.

Clear out the the deadwood and the under performers but please don’t rip the heart out if the club.

Hey now, hey now, don't dream it's over
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:58 - May 13 with 1243 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:50 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue



Thanks.

Has a bit of a Paul Hurst feel about it just now. Can see the following problems;

Hard to get decent fees when clubs know we want a full clear out.

If some players can't find a move, the may be bad for morale if they stick around.

It's also important for fans to see local players progress through the first team.

I agree with a clear out, but had hoped that we might keep some of the 'better' players.

Poll: Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:01 - May 13 with 1257 viewsitfcjoe

It's Roy Keane all over again - I lapped it up when I was younger and less understanding about the club - he was going to turn us into winners, he could rip the club up from the bottom up because I knew he was going to get it right.....

He didn't, Cook won't, and as fans we will have to suffer as we've been out back as a club.

We can all accept Chambers and Skuse's time was up (or nearly up), but to remove the heart from the club in this respect as well is too much for me.

Can anyway really say they are excited to sell Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie to bring in Lee Evans, Callum Connolly and Owen Dale?

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:02 - May 13 with 1233 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:31 - May 13 by SitfcB

Downes wants to go apparently so not sure why people are crying about him. Fook him.


Makes the Nydam decision look more surprising though.

Poll: Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:03 - May 13 with 1224 viewsMillsTash

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:31 - May 13 by SitfcB

Downes wants to go apparently so not sure why people are crying about him. Fook him.


"Apparently"
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:03 - May 13 with 1224 viewsgtsb1966

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:42 - May 13 by Herbivore

This strikes me as being utterly mental. Binning off all of the talented youngsters currently in the squad because he couldn't immediately get a tune out of them? Rather looks like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I can see this window ending up being one we regret if we hold a fire sale of the likes of Downes, Dozzer, Woolf, and Bishop. All of them have the potential to play at a higher level than this and if Cook genuinely thinks he can't realise that potential then that's a worry for me.


Forget Downes, he wants out, but please can you tell me how you can justify that these players have enough 'talent' to perform in the championship. They couldn't do it in league one. Hardly classed as youngsters now either.
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:06 - May 13 with 1211 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:01 - May 13 by itfcjoe

It's Roy Keane all over again - I lapped it up when I was younger and less understanding about the club - he was going to turn us into winners, he could rip the club up from the bottom up because I knew he was going to get it right.....

He didn't, Cook won't, and as fans we will have to suffer as we've been out back as a club.

We can all accept Chambers and Skuse's time was up (or nearly up), but to remove the heart from the club in this respect as well is too much for me.

Can anyway really say they are excited to sell Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie to bring in Lee Evans, Callum Connolly and Owen Dale?


Most modern clubs are moving away from allowing the manager such power in transfers.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens, but I'd hoped he would back himself to get consistency out of Dozzell, Woolf and Dobra.

Downes I can understand as he probs wants a move, and injury may have taken their toll on Lankester.

If Downes is leaving, I would have liked to see Nydam stay.

Poll: Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:06 - May 13 with 1216 viewsGuthrum

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:58 - May 13 by Marshalls_Mullet

Thanks.

Has a bit of a Paul Hurst feel about it just now. Can see the following problems;

Hard to get decent fees when clubs know we want a full clear out.

If some players can't find a move, the may be bad for morale if they stick around.

It's also important for fans to see local players progress through the first team.

I agree with a clear out, but had hoped that we might keep some of the 'better' players.


Is there a new, upcoming generation of our youth players who are being blocked by those currently at the top of the pile? Some of the U23s and last night's team may get a crack at breaking through instead.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:07 - May 13 with 1216 viewsMetal_Hacker

I can't help but think reading Stu's last sentence again might put some sense to the conversations

"Here’s the situation as
@AndyWarren_
and I understand it."

He says as they "understand it" . I don't think anything has been confirmed and I think perhaps people MIGHT be taking this literally .I'd assume if PC or a club representative had spoken directly with Stu Watson I'd assume "as I understand it" type line would be excluded .I can't help but think there's slightly more to this than we know

I've been wrong before

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:08 - May 13 with 1199 viewsReuser_is_God

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:42 - May 13 by Herbivore

This strikes me as being utterly mental. Binning off all of the talented youngsters currently in the squad because he couldn't immediately get a tune out of them? Rather looks like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I can see this window ending up being one we regret if we hold a fire sale of the likes of Downes, Dozzer, Woolf, and Bishop. All of them have the potential to play at a higher level than this and if Cook genuinely thinks he can't realise that potential then that's a worry for me.


He’s not binning them off.

They’ll only go if we receive acceptable bids.

Downes doesn’t even want to be here anyway FFS.

Evans out
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:10 - May 13 with 1185 viewsgtsb1966

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:01 - May 13 by itfcjoe

It's Roy Keane all over again - I lapped it up when I was younger and less understanding about the club - he was going to turn us into winners, he could rip the club up from the bottom up because I knew he was going to get it right.....

He didn't, Cook won't, and as fans we will have to suffer as we've been out back as a club.

We can all accept Chambers and Skuse's time was up (or nearly up), but to remove the heart from the club in this respect as well is too much for me.

Can anyway really say they are excited to sell Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie to bring in Lee Evans, Callum Connolly and Owen Dale?


How do you know Cook won't.
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:11 - May 13 with 1190 viewsRadlett_blue

I'm already having serious doubts about Cook. If he thinks Downes isn't good enough, for example, I will be interested to see the quality of player that he brings in. If he thinks Bishop isn't good enough, why play him so often that an extension is triggered (unless he thins Bishop can then be sold on for a decent fee.
It seems he doesn't want any of the current squad, so if he can't get rid of them (preferably at an acceptable price) it's going to be great having discontented players kicking their heels.
If all he wants are ready made players who can help town storm to promotion, then we might as well get rid of the U23s & the Academy.
He also seems to have been given a free hand to get rid of all the coaches & replace them. While Town have been completely deficient in areas like sports science, this seems like a combination of Paul /Hurst & Roy Keane.

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:11 - May 13 with 1188 viewsSitfcB

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:07 - May 13 by Metal_Hacker

I can't help but think reading Stu's last sentence again might put some sense to the conversations

"Here’s the situation as
@AndyWarren_
and I understand it."

He says as they "understand it" . I don't think anything has been confirmed and I think perhaps people MIGHT be taking this literally .I'd assume if PC or a club representative had spoken directly with Stu Watson I'd assume "as I understand it" type line would be excluded .I can't help but think there's slightly more to this than we know

I've been wrong before



COYB
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:14 - May 13 with 1166 viewsVic

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:52 - May 13 by Rozz

I do think any sensible manager in this position would be phrasing it as "This is the vision. You are free to find another club and the club will listen to offers, but if you're still in the building next year you come back and prove to us you want to be a footballer."

With the list itself, I'm surprised by some and not by others. I think more and more this is looking like an attitude / mentality problem - it really doesn't matter how good you are if you're not going to give 100% for your manager + club. Some of these youngsters, despite being decent enough talents, haven't been in the right headspace and we've suffered badly from the us vs them mentality that Lambert built to hide behind.
[Post edited 13 May 2021 7:55]


Your first paragraph is right - and it may well be that that is how Cook said it. But that doesn’t make a good media headline does it! He could well have said - ‘I’d like you to stay, I think you’re good enough to be part of where we’re going, but if you want to go then I understand and won’t stand in your way’ that’s very different to the headline. It’s then over the to players - they don’t actually have to leave! If they really want to be part of the future they can knuckle down and prove to Cook that they deserve a place in his team. Thus far none of them have really done that.

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:14 - May 13 with 1163 viewsportmanking

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:01 - May 13 by itfcjoe

It's Roy Keane all over again - I lapped it up when I was younger and less understanding about the club - he was going to turn us into winners, he could rip the club up from the bottom up because I knew he was going to get it right.....

He didn't, Cook won't, and as fans we will have to suffer as we've been out back as a club.

We can all accept Chambers and Skuse's time was up (or nearly up), but to remove the heart from the club in this respect as well is too much for me.

Can anyway really say they are excited to sell Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie to bring in Lee Evans, Callum Connolly and Owen Dale?


You're becoming a right bedwetter, Joe. And it's only a few days into the close season!

You might not be a fan of change, but change is what this club has needed since relegation - from top to bottom. Downes doesn't want to be here, Dozzell flatters to deceive too much and Bishop is only a whisker away from another 3-4 month injury each week. To consider them the 'heart' of the club is madness.

We've just witnessed our amazing U18s reach the Youth Cup semis. Selling a large chunk of this current senior squad allows us to bring in fresh blood, whilst creating a new pathway for our U18s to make an impact in the next 2-3 years.

Callum Connolly, Lee Evans and Owen Dale have delivered more this season than Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie combined!
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:14 - May 13 with 1164 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:11 - May 13 by SitfcB



Might well be a case of 'if you don't want to be here, then leave'.

...rather than simply... 'I want you out of this club'.

Poll: Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:16 - May 13 with 1153 viewsjonbull88

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:44 - May 13 by Funge

Downes - good player, but didnt want to be here this season - apparent that he wants to play at a higher level, so let him.

Dozzell was *terrible* this year.

Dobra - this one does seem harsh. Perhaps he wants to go?

Woolfenden - was mediocre last year, and, like so many of the others, didnt look like he wanted to be here.

Lankester/ Bishop - see Woolfenden.

We have an attachment with these players as they are academy, and we've seen them grow- but, realistically, they are as much a part of the rot as the Edwards/ Jackson/ Sears of this squad.

I feel for Dobra, and Nydam - the rest of them are authors of their own misfortune.


Agree with lots on this list. I do believe that many town fans look at academy players through blue tinted specs. The list with the exception of maybe dobra haven’t pulled up tree over the last few years.

I for one am glad we are finally going to have a hard reset, it should have occurred when we went down by in 2018/19 tbh.

Obviously the players might still be here come August, if they are then it’s up to them to pull their finger out and prove why they should be back in the team.
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:17 - May 13 with 1152 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:14 - May 13 by portmanking

You're becoming a right bedwetter, Joe. And it's only a few days into the close season!

You might not be a fan of change, but change is what this club has needed since relegation - from top to bottom. Downes doesn't want to be here, Dozzell flatters to deceive too much and Bishop is only a whisker away from another 3-4 month injury each week. To consider them the 'heart' of the club is madness.

We've just witnessed our amazing U18s reach the Youth Cup semis. Selling a large chunk of this current senior squad allows us to bring in fresh blood, whilst creating a new pathway for our U18s to make an impact in the next 2-3 years.

Callum Connolly, Lee Evans and Owen Dale have delivered more this season than Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie combined!


Suspect that Woolf, Dozzell and Dobra would do well if implemented with the right players and manager.

Just because someone doesn't want to see everyone leave, doesn't mean they don't like change.

Bishop has had his best season yet in terms of fitness, so fear of injury is no reason to sell.

From what Watson has said, the message / clear out may not be as drastic as some of the article suggests.

Poll: Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:19 - May 13 with 1137 viewsSteve_M

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:11 - May 13 by Radlett_blue

I'm already having serious doubts about Cook. If he thinks Downes isn't good enough, for example, I will be interested to see the quality of player that he brings in. If he thinks Bishop isn't good enough, why play him so often that an extension is triggered (unless he thins Bishop can then be sold on for a decent fee.
It seems he doesn't want any of the current squad, so if he can't get rid of them (preferably at an acceptable price) it's going to be great having discontented players kicking their heels.
If all he wants are ready made players who can help town storm to promotion, then we might as well get rid of the U23s & the Academy.
He also seems to have been given a free hand to get rid of all the coaches & replace them. While Town have been completely deficient in areas like sports science, this seems like a combination of Paul /Hurst & Roy Keane.


Not forgetting that he wants to keep Edwards as well. In context that's quite bizarre as Downes, Dozzell & Wolfenden all have a far higher ceiling than Edwards.

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:20 - May 13 with 1137 viewsGuthrum

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:11 - May 13 by Radlett_blue

I'm already having serious doubts about Cook. If he thinks Downes isn't good enough, for example, I will be interested to see the quality of player that he brings in. If he thinks Bishop isn't good enough, why play him so often that an extension is triggered (unless he thins Bishop can then be sold on for a decent fee.
It seems he doesn't want any of the current squad, so if he can't get rid of them (preferably at an acceptable price) it's going to be great having discontented players kicking their heels.
If all he wants are ready made players who can help town storm to promotion, then we might as well get rid of the U23s & the Academy.
He also seems to have been given a free hand to get rid of all the coaches & replace them. While Town have been completely deficient in areas like sports science, this seems like a combination of Paul /Hurst & Roy Keane.


The main issues with Hurst and Keane were not so much what they were trying to do as that they lacked the competence and judgement to make it work. Cook at least has more experience - and at this level, not above (Keane) or below (Hurst).

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:22 - May 13 with 1128 viewsRadlett_blue

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:14 - May 13 by portmanking

You're becoming a right bedwetter, Joe. And it's only a few days into the close season!

You might not be a fan of change, but change is what this club has needed since relegation - from top to bottom. Downes doesn't want to be here, Dozzell flatters to deceive too much and Bishop is only a whisker away from another 3-4 month injury each week. To consider them the 'heart' of the club is madness.

We've just witnessed our amazing U18s reach the Youth Cup semis. Selling a large chunk of this current senior squad allows us to bring in fresh blood, whilst creating a new pathway for our U18s to make an impact in the next 2-3 years.

Callum Connolly, Lee Evans and Owen Dale have delivered more this season than Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie combined!


The statistical reality is that if 2-3 of the current youth team go on to have meaningful pro careers, we'll have done well. Look at the squad who won the Youth Cup in 2005.
Cook will also be very focussed on short term results so I don't expect to see him playing the youngsters at all.

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:25 - May 13 with 1113 viewsSitfcB

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:03 - May 13 by MillsTash

"Apparently"


...but more than likely.

COYB
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:31 - May 13 with 1086 viewsSaigonTractor

I'd be lying if I said this didn't make me anxious.

However, I feel like a lot of these players are given more leeway than most due to them being academy players.

Downes is the only one out of the 5 who shows consistent talent, and I think he wants to move on to better things anyway. As is his right.

Lankester could count himself unlucky as he's been injured, but these are players who have had 2 seasons in League One to prove themselves, and have finished mid table twice.

The message it sends to Baggott and others is that they can't bank on just being "one of our own", they have to back it up with performances on the pitch.
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:34 - May 13 with 1064 viewsITFCBlues

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:01 - May 13 by itfcjoe

It's Roy Keane all over again - I lapped it up when I was younger and less understanding about the club - he was going to turn us into winners, he could rip the club up from the bottom up because I knew he was going to get it right.....

He didn't, Cook won't, and as fans we will have to suffer as we've been out back as a club.

We can all accept Chambers and Skuse's time was up (or nearly up), but to remove the heart from the club in this respect as well is too much for me.

Can anyway really say they are excited to sell Dozzell, Downes and Woolfie to bring in Lee Evans, Callum Connolly and Owen Dale?


Of the three players you've mentioned, Downes wants to go, Wolfy hasn't played large chunks of the season - is there an attitude problem there or application problem there? Lambert seemed to think so as well.... Dozzell has had his chances. Its clear you have a soft spot for him but playing one nice looking pass a game then not really doing alot else isn't going to cut it.

I'm really not bothered about them leaving and who knows what happens on the training ground every week.

Cooks proven at this level and even above. These players aren't.

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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:35 - May 13 with 1056 viewsportmanking

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:31 - May 13 by SaigonTractor

I'd be lying if I said this didn't make me anxious.

However, I feel like a lot of these players are given more leeway than most due to them being academy players.

Downes is the only one out of the 5 who shows consistent talent, and I think he wants to move on to better things anyway. As is his right.

Lankester could count himself unlucky as he's been injured, but these are players who have had 2 seasons in League One to prove themselves, and have finished mid table twice.

The message it sends to Baggott and others is that they can't bank on just being "one of our own", they have to back it up with performances on the pitch.


On your last point, isn't that the right approach? For too long we've accepted mediocrity from our homegrown players, simply because they are 'one of our own'.
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Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 08:37 - May 13 with 1040 viewsRopeyAdvice

Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 07:24 - May 13 by MrTown

You look at the squad, including these academy players, they’ve failed for 2 years on the spin in League 1.

Why would you keep them? (Dobra aside, barely featured)


Completely agree. As much as any fan would love the idea of these 3 players being the future of our club, they've proved that they aren't capable of performing well enough, consistently enough to take us out of league one let alone anything else. The rest of the squad has not been good enough.
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