| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester 07:18 - May 13 with 9996 views | GlasgowBlue |
If they are not sold, although I believe they will be, then how are they ever going to give 100% for Paul Cook knowing that he doesn’t really want them?
Staggered that any of the above players are on his list of unwanted. They should be the future of our club. And what message does it send out to the likes of Baggott and any other promising youths in the under 18’s.
Clear out the the deadwood and the under performers but please don’t rip the heart out if the club. |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:32 - May 13 with 947 views | LankHenners |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:29 - May 13 by ITFC_96 |
You had the whole fiasco with Lambert saying that he's "not ready" or too young after his debut, the whole photogate where him and a few others were not allowed to take a new team photo, the whole loan thing where he was essentially punished for apparently not wanting to go on loan but to stay at the club. Just off the top of my head. It was multiple people it happened to also, think El Mizouni and Woolfenden too. |
Pretty much everyone agreed that stuff was Lambert being a melt at the time.
So one manager acting strangely towards some players. Not really the same as what you were claiming. |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:32 - May 13 with 945 views | itfcjoe |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:10 - May 13 by SomethingBlue |
Dale, Evans (in particular), Connolly would be OK for the squad but we would need far more. Not really sure how he expects to do it. None of those lads has anything like as high a ceiling as the guys we've apparently told to leave.
I'd understand if a couple go, we are in League One and haven't been very good so there's obviously a price to pay. But in some cases — Dobra for example — perhaps a little coaching and work on the player wouldn't go amiss. Hard to think *none* of these guys could fit into what Cook wants. [Post edited 13 May 2021 9:14]
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And if these players are still attracting interest from 2nd tier clubs then what does it say re Cook that he doesn't back himself to get anything out of them?
Feels as though there is a summer coming up that will come back to haunt us, and set the club back - a vast number in the fanbase are obviously happy with this approach but does feel as though there is a lack of looking at the bigger picture and what this all entails |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:33 - May 13 with 932 views | portmanking |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:32 - May 13 by itfcjoe |
And if these players are still attracting interest from 2nd tier clubs then what does it say re Cook that he doesn't back himself to get anything out of them?
Feels as though there is a summer coming up that will come back to haunt us, and set the club back - a vast number in the fanbase are obviously happy with this approach but does feel as though there is a lack of looking at the bigger picture and what this all entails |
Set the club back?! Are you for real, Joe?
We're at our lowest ebb in SIX DECADES! |  | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:34 - May 13 with 925 views | ITFC_96 |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:32 - May 13 by LankHenners |
Pretty much everyone agreed that stuff was Lambert being a melt at the time.
So one manager acting strangely towards some players. Not really the same as what you were claiming. |
Well, Cook is the second manager at this point by telling him and the others that they should find new clubs. Not convinced that Dobra wants to leave when he's resisted any attempts to be sent away from the club at this point, and I can't remember any reactions from him after the offer from Brighton. The interview he did a couple weeks ago doesn't suggest he wants to leave in any way either. | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:36 - May 13 with 908 views | stantheman |
The main point in all this is that we have all been saying that League 1 this year has been very poor, overall. This squad has shown that they were not even good enough to succeed in a poor division. Not one of them has been a stand out player so why do you think they will suddenly improve overnight? |  | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:39 - May 13 with 884 views | ITFCBlues |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:28 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Based on the evidence of my eyes and the fact that a side like Rotherham, who were much better in this league than those two, couldn't stay up in the Championship.
Our young players have plenty of potential, when you stick young players in a dysfunctional team they don't tend to fulfil that potential. I'd rather hoped Cook might create a functioning team that would give the young players a platform to perform, but it seems he wants to throw the baby out with the bath water instead. |
Rotherham play a style of football that the higher you go up isn't likely to succeed. Blackpool especially are more than capable. But you're not basing any of your theory on facts? The only fact I can see is two sides who ripped it up and improved as a consequence whilst not forgetting that these players helped us to finish NINTH. Are they capable of performing at a higher level?
When do these "young players" stop being young? It sounds as though both Downes and Dobra want out. Bishop isn't young anymore, Wolfys attitude has been questioned by PL - maybe there's more to that? Dozzell flatters to deceive, one good pass a game is a luxury we can do without.
Maybe he wants to create a pathway for the U18s who have performed so well? |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:39 - May 13 with 885 views | RopeyAdvice |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:33 - May 13 by portmanking |
Set the club back?! Are you for real, Joe?
We're at our lowest ebb in SIX DECADES! |
ha! exactly. This stuff needed to happen. Lets wait until the new squads in before we start to judge and get sentimental and upset..
Paul Cook got rid of 22 players in his first season at Wigan. He then went on to win the league. I think we just need to wait and see. No one knows what the situation with each player is. I trust The new Owners and Cook far more than the Evans regime | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:44 - May 13 with 830 views | itfcjoe |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:39 - May 13 by ITFCBlues |
Rotherham play a style of football that the higher you go up isn't likely to succeed. Blackpool especially are more than capable. But you're not basing any of your theory on facts? The only fact I can see is two sides who ripped it up and improved as a consequence whilst not forgetting that these players helped us to finish NINTH. Are they capable of performing at a higher level?
When do these "young players" stop being young? It sounds as though both Downes and Dobra want out. Bishop isn't young anymore, Wolfys attitude has been questioned by PL - maybe there's more to that? Dozzell flatters to deceive, one good pass a game is a luxury we can do without.
Maybe he wants to create a pathway for the U18s who have performed so well? |
Blackpool doing well with players like Garbutt and Grant Ward.....were those 2 players you'd be desperate to keep if they were here?
There is much of a muchness in ability levels at this level - do we really think replacing players like Dozzell and Downes with Callum Connolly and Lee Evans are going to be massive game changers? They will just be coming into a pre season where the manager actually has an opportunity to get them as fit as he wants to and work with them properly. | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:45 - May 13 with 817 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:32 - May 13 by itfcjoe |
And if these players are still attracting interest from 2nd tier clubs then what does it say re Cook that he doesn't back himself to get anything out of them?
Feels as though there is a summer coming up that will come back to haunt us, and set the club back - a vast number in the fanbase are obviously happy with this approach but does feel as though there is a lack of looking at the bigger picture and what this all entails |
Putting aside sentimentality (which I totally get by the way) this will all be judged by the quality of the recruitment and how we start next season. It is going to get very tiresome if we spend the whole summer criticising every decision and second guessing what is coming next. | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:48 - May 13 with 820 views | PhilTWTD |
I said on Monday that a large number of players were told they could find new clubs. None of them are seen as indispensible. I assume the plan is that a number of them will leave.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:48 - May 13 with 803 views | Radlett_blue |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:44 - May 13 by itfcjoe |
Blackpool doing well with players like Garbutt and Grant Ward.....were those 2 players you'd be desperate to keep if they were here?
There is much of a muchness in ability levels at this level - do we really think replacing players like Dozzell and Downes with Callum Connolly and Lee Evans are going to be massive game changers? They will just be coming into a pre season where the manager actually has an opportunity to get them as fit as he wants to and work with them properly. |
Exactly - at this level of football, the level of the ability of most of the players isn't the differentiator, unless Cook is to be given a Championship - scale budget. A good manager gets more out of his players & moulds them into an effective team. If Cook thinks he can get much better players than Downes, Dozzell, Bishop, Dobra & Woolfenden on League 1 wages I will be staggered. |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:58 - May 13 with 753 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:30 - May 13 by SaigonTractor |
PL teams have a look at almost every youth player in the English pyramid these days, because they can afford to sign them for pennies and offload them if they don't come good.
The fact is they've had 2 years to prove themselves and they've failed twice. Maybe they do have the potential to play at a higher level, but the reality appears to be they won't fulfil that potential at Ipswich. |
Downes was very good in 2019/20 as was Woolfenden, hence interest in them both last summer. The other three didn't really feature regularly that season so I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the players in question have had 2 years to prove their worth and haven't done so.
You're also stripping away all context here. This season has been a car crash. We inexplicably started the season with a disinterested manager who'd been expecting the sack, a manager who also had no relationship with the players to speak of. The side under Lambert never looked like they'd had a day's proper coaching. Hardly the conditions in which young players tend to do well.
You must not think much of Cook as a coach and manager if you think he can't get a tune out of any of these players. |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:00 - May 13 with 742 views | Grumps |
Firstly, let me confirm that I'm not suggesting that ITFC are competing at the same level as the Premier League clubs, in fact they're barely playing the same game, but I don't see many PL fans complaining that that they don't have many local lads playing for their first teams. Players like Foden at Man City and TA-A at Liverpool are generally exceptions to the rule. I think that we may be a little too parochial in thinking we should have a proportion of local lads, or people who have come through OUR development system playing for OUR club. The most important thing to my mind is getting players in that bring success to the club, not worrying about the route they took getting here. | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:03 - May 13 with 714 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:39 - May 13 by ITFCBlues |
Rotherham play a style of football that the higher you go up isn't likely to succeed. Blackpool especially are more than capable. But you're not basing any of your theory on facts? The only fact I can see is two sides who ripped it up and improved as a consequence whilst not forgetting that these players helped us to finish NINTH. Are they capable of performing at a higher level?
When do these "young players" stop being young? It sounds as though both Downes and Dobra want out. Bishop isn't young anymore, Wolfys attitude has been questioned by PL - maybe there's more to that? Dozzell flatters to deceive, one good pass a game is a luxury we can do without.
Maybe he wants to create a pathway for the U18s who have performed so well? |
Okay mate, if you want to aspire for us to be Lincoln or Blackpool then you do you. I'd rather hoped we might be aiming higher.
As for creating a pathway for the under 18s, having watched and enjoyed the game last night I can honestly say that not one of that side looks ready to step up and give us 10 starts next season, let alone be a regular. | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:04 - May 13 with 696 views | ITFCBlues |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:58 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Downes was very good in 2019/20 as was Woolfenden, hence interest in them both last summer. The other three didn't really feature regularly that season so I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the players in question have had 2 years to prove their worth and haven't done so.
You're also stripping away all context here. This season has been a car crash. We inexplicably started the season with a disinterested manager who'd been expecting the sack, a manager who also had no relationship with the players to speak of. The side under Lambert never looked like they'd had a day's proper coaching. Hardly the conditions in which young players tend to do well.
You must not think much of Cook as a coach and manager if you think he can't get a tune out of any of these players. |
Nothing to do with Cook as a manager. More to do with these players massively underachieving for 3 years in some cases. How long do you give them? The best two from this list appear to want to leave as well, do you force them to stay?
Cook has pedigree wherever he's managed. It's completely different in that respect to Keane or Hurst who had very little. | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:06 - May 13 with 680 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:04 - May 13 by ITFCBlues |
Nothing to do with Cook as a manager. More to do with these players massively underachieving for 3 years in some cases. How long do you give them? The best two from this list appear to want to leave as well, do you force them to stay?
Cook has pedigree wherever he's managed. It's completely different in that respect to Keane or Hurst who had very little. |
Nothing to do with the manager? Some real Kool Aid drinkers on this thread. | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:07 - May 13 with 671 views | SaigonTractor |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:03 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Okay mate, if you want to aspire for us to be Lincoln or Blackpool then you do you. I'd rather hoped we might be aiming higher.
As for creating a pathway for the under 18s, having watched and enjoyed the game last night I can honestly say that not one of that side looks ready to step up and give us 10 starts next season, let alone be a regular. |
How does keeping players who have played worse than those teams for 2 seasons help us aspire to be better than them? |  | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:07 - May 13 with 669 views | stantheman |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 09:58 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Downes was very good in 2019/20 as was Woolfenden, hence interest in them both last summer. The other three didn't really feature regularly that season so I'm not sure it's accurate to say that the players in question have had 2 years to prove their worth and haven't done so.
You're also stripping away all context here. This season has been a car crash. We inexplicably started the season with a disinterested manager who'd been expecting the sack, a manager who also had no relationship with the players to speak of. The side under Lambert never looked like they'd had a day's proper coaching. Hardly the conditions in which young players tend to do well.
You must not think much of Cook as a coach and manager if you think he can't get a tune out of any of these players. |
Many of these players have not stood up to the challenge though. It would be better to let sentiment not play a part. Some younger players in other teams have regularly put in stand out performances against us whilst ours just seem to take being upstaged as the norm. It's been a feature this season so it's best to accept this and let them move on. It will be a reset for both them and the club. | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:09 - May 13 with 653 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:07 - May 13 by SaigonTractor |
How does keeping players who have played worse than those teams for 2 seasons help us aspire to be better than them? |
Are you aware of the concept of a team? | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:09 - May 13 with 644 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:07 - May 13 by stantheman |
Many of these players have not stood up to the challenge though. It would be better to let sentiment not play a part. Some younger players in other teams have regularly put in stand out performances against us whilst ours just seem to take being upstaged as the norm. It's been a feature this season so it's best to accept this and let them move on. It will be a reset for both them and the club. |
Did you bother to read the whole of the post you were responding to? | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:23 - May 13 with 591 views | BillyBlues |
This is easy...
Downes - Luton
Dozzell - Nottingham Forest
Dobra - Brighton Reserves
Woolfy - Bristol City
Lankester - Cambridge
I am happy to drive Edwards and Jackson wherever they want. | | | |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:24 - May 13 with 583 views | ITFCBlues |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:06 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Nothing to do with the manager? Some real Kool Aid drinkers on this thread. |
Yeah and I think you're one of the main ones!
Do these players accept no responsibility to leading the club to the lowest point in its history across multiple managers?
Or are we sentimental because they're "one of our own" | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:25 - May 13 with 573 views | Herbivore |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:24 - May 13 by ITFCBlues |
Yeah and I think you're one of the main ones!
Do these players accept no responsibility to leading the club to the lowest point in its history across multiple managers?
Or are we sentimental because they're "one of our own" |
I refer you back to my previous posts. | |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:26 - May 13 with 552 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:03 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Okay mate, if you want to aspire for us to be Lincoln or Blackpool then you do you. I'd rather hoped we might be aiming higher.
As for creating a pathway for the under 18s, having watched and enjoyed the game last night I can honestly say that not one of that side looks ready to step up and give us 10 starts next season, let alone be a regular. |
Congrats you are off "ignore" as I have missed posts like these!
Classic herbie!!
Are you aware what the concept "Pathway" means?! Its mean a route into the first team from the U18s, via the U23s.... not drop the youths straight into the first team at 16/17 and expect them to start 10 games!!
I've missed you. |  |
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| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:27 - May 13 with 553 views | SaigonTractor |
| Downes, Dozzell, Dobra, Woolfenden & Lankester on 10:09 - May 13 by Herbivore |
Are you aware of the concept of a team? |
So the worst period in the club's history is somehow only down to the players we sign, and not the players that came up through the academy?
They have ALL underperformed and kept us in League One, both the signed players and the youth players.
That's the concept of a team. The team has played poorly, and that unfortunately includes the academy players (Downes excluded, but he wants to leave anyway. And I don't blame him) | | | |
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