| Proud to be English 20:31 - Jul 8 with 8147 views | CaptainAhab |
Honestly not something I've ever written before, but in the aftermath of last night I've been feeling quite emotional... I shed a tear or two after the game, this morning after someone posted the Mason Mount video and just now after seeing the video of the Muslim scholars.
Then I saw this post by a random commenter, which summed it up so perfectly, which helped me to understand quite why I'm feeling this way. This is beautiful:
This team of young men: young men who campaign to feed poor children, who kneel against racism, who stand up for lgbtq+ rights, some whose parents or grandparents came to this country as immigrants, some who came from broken homes, some who fought against unfair criticism for their place in the team... this team of young men, who support each other and strive for the success of THEIR TEAM rather than for individual glory... this team of young men, and their strong, supportive, intelligent, compassionate manager, have inspired and impressed and earned the respect of every one of us, and they have unified us at a time of great division.
I am so overwhelmed by their attitude, professionalism and love for the game. This team of young men will go down in history as the pride of England, regardless of Sunday's outcome. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿â¤ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ |  | | |  |
| Proud to be English on 14:57 - Jul 9 with 1162 views | eireblue |
| Proud to be English on 14:52 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
For the Irish? Always. Nobody hates the English the way they do. |
Nice bit of stereotyping. |  | | |
| Proud to be English on 15:06 - Jul 9 with 1152 views | chicoazul |
| Proud to be English on 14:57 - Jul 9 by eireblue |
Nice bit of stereotyping. |
To be sure to be sure! |  |
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| Proud to be English on 15:13 - Jul 9 with 1140 views | jeera |
| Proud to be English on 14:53 - Jul 9 by Ewan_Oozami |
Suspect you need to read up a little bit further on Irish history and their relationship with England..... |
Churchman's got a point though hasn't he?
Moriaty's post calls this particular bunch harmless but then smugly revels in how they were roundly mocked by people who were pretending to be their hosts. I don't see how that's appropriate in any land by any people or to anyone.
If we're going to preach then we need to show some decent examples ourselves too.
I dislike this self-perpetuating.
I can sympathise with an Irish standpoint as an Englishman myself and it's not helpful if the person I'm trying to have a better understanding of treats me like a mug. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 15:17]
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| Proud to be English on 15:28 - Jul 9 with 1126 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 15:13 - Jul 9 by jeera |
Churchman's got a point though hasn't he?
Moriaty's post calls this particular bunch harmless but then smugly revels in how they were roundly mocked by people who were pretending to be their hosts. I don't see how that's appropriate in any land by any people or to anyone.
If we're going to preach then we need to show some decent examples ourselves too.
I dislike this self-perpetuating.
I can sympathise with an Irish standpoint as an Englishman myself and it's not helpful if the person I'm trying to have a better understanding of treats me like a mug. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 15:17]
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Let's just hope that decency prevails and that those who represent all that is right about Ireland will be the ones we can remember and that it is they who are at the forefront on Sunday. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 15:45 - Jul 9 with 1096 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Proud to be English on 15:13 - Jul 9 by jeera |
Churchman's got a point though hasn't he?
Moriaty's post calls this particular bunch harmless but then smugly revels in how they were roundly mocked by people who were pretending to be their hosts. I don't see how that's appropriate in any land by any people or to anyone.
If we're going to preach then we need to show some decent examples ourselves too.
I dislike this self-perpetuating.
I can sympathise with an Irish standpoint as an Englishman myself and it's not helpful if the person I'm trying to have a better understanding of treats me like a mug. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 15:17]
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I didn't take that interpretation from Moriaty's post but maybe that just my post-colonial guilt kicking in there.... |  |
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| Proud to be English on 15:47 - Jul 9 with 1097 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 11:00 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
In 1995, England came to Dublin to play a friendly. Big Jack was Ireland's manager. The game was abandoned after Ireland took the lead as English fans went on the rampage. Funny enough, one of the images from that night was a young child, this time a young boy, looking on in fear and shock at the mayhem being caused by English thugs unfolded. Big Jack was furious and was having a right go himself at those English fans.
That night saw the great and the ugly of England and English football collide on Irish soil. Big Jack, revered here, a sporting legend and thoroughly decent guy vs the cowardly thugs who also hailed from his shores. And it wasn't a minority of those supporters who indulged in the mayhem.
No question England has many honourable men and women, decent, upright, proud of a really likeable bunch of players and manager who have every chance of winning on Sunday. They are the polar opposite of those that can instantly quell an inclination to hope England win, such as elements of the English media , public figures like Priti Patel , some of the supporters and others, so bereft of integrity and decency. But then again, isn't if fair to say no nation can always offer clean hands?
There was a little clip doing some rounds here of a few exuberant (and harmless) English fans asking a few locals here how to sing "It's coming home" in Irish and then a few minutes later they're singing "Tiocfaidh ar la" with great gusto, pints aloft, English shirts on. IF only they knew.
Whatever will be sung on Sunday night as Monday, (and possibly your bonus bank holiday, draw near) one hopes that the decency prevails and that those who represent all that is right about England and English sport and football, will be the ones we can remember and that it is they who are at the forefront on Sunday. |
Good post.
I’ll echo what was said above about liking this English team and Southgate even as a Scot. But you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion. And seeing them “celebrate” is always unpleasant.
No coincidence that it’s these elements who hated the current English team and the more evolved values they stand for ... before they decided to hijack the bandwagon. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 15:51 - Jul 9 with 1085 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 15:47 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Good post.
I’ll echo what was said above about liking this English team and Southgate even as a Scot. But you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion. And seeing them “celebrate” is always unpleasant.
No coincidence that it’s these elements who hated the current English team and the more evolved values they stand for ... before they decided to hijack the bandwagon. |
Funny isn't it, how much exposure the "Small elements" get and the rest of us get tarnished with the same brush.
Unconscious xenophobia all over this thread. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 16:04 - Jul 9 with 1065 views | noggin |
| Proud to be English on 14:52 - Jul 9 by chicoazul |
For the Irish? Always. Nobody hates the English the way they do. |
I suspect the majority of Irish people 'hate' the ruling class of England and that is understandable given the history. Travel to Ireland, behave yourself, and you will be welcomed with open arms and pints of the black stuff. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 16:05 - Jul 9 with 1062 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 15:51 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Funny isn't it, how much exposure the "Small elements" get and the rest of us get tarnished with the same brush.
Unconscious xenophobia all over this thread. |
I can’t help that. It’s been an element of English nationalism for a very long time though.
I think the current English team and Southgate have certainly done a fantastic job of putting some distance between themselves and the less progressive elements though. Long may that continue. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:06 - Jul 9 with 1060 views | noggin |
| Proud to be English on 15:51 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Funny isn't it, how much exposure the "Small elements" get and the rest of us get tarnished with the same brush.
Unconscious xenophobia all over this thread. |
Xenophobia? FFS. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:09 - Jul 9 with 1045 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 14:57 - Jul 9 by eireblue |
Nice bit of stereotyping. |
Ignore Chico.
On the Dunning-Krueger chart, he’s planted his flag on the summit of Mount Stupid. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:12 - Jul 9 with 1033 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 15:51 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Funny isn't it, how much exposure the "Small elements" get and the rest of us get tarnished with the same brush.
Unconscious xenophobia all over this thread. |
Well said. Some of them even get to justify their own nationalism by putting the cuddly word 'civic' in front of it and no one thinks anything of it. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:13 - Jul 9 with 1025 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 16:12 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
Well said. Some of them even get to justify their own nationalism by putting the cuddly word 'civic' in front of it and no one thinks anything of it. |
And here’s Chico’s sherpa. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:14 - Jul 9 with 1017 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 16:12 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
Well said. Some of them even get to justify their own nationalism by putting the cuddly word 'civic' in front of it and no one thinks anything of it. |
it doesn't go unnoticed, despite the odd positive comment thrown in as a token gesture to try and hide their view.
There's always a but and a caveat built in. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:18 - Jul 9 with 1001 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 16:13 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
And here’s Chico’s sherpa. |
cuckoo | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:25 - Jul 9 with 982 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 16:18 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
cuckoo |
You alright?
The only people who have a problem with civic nationalism seem to be ethnic nationalists. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:38 - Jul 9 with 955 views | chicoazul |
| Proud to be English on 16:04 - Jul 9 by noggin |
I suspect the majority of Irish people 'hate' the ruling class of England and that is understandable given the history. Travel to Ireland, behave yourself, and you will be welcomed with open arms and pints of the black stuff. |
Behave yourself, haha. Thanks for that Confucius. Should I wear orange or green? | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:39 - Jul 9 with 954 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 14:44 - Jul 9 by Churchman |
So you are using an event from 26 years ago to define all English people. An event that believe it or not made big news at the time here too and nobody was cheering from the rooftops about it. ‘No question England has many honourable men and women’ is up there with ‘I don’t mean to be rude’ as a little caveat. Getting English people, guests in your country spending money, to sing a pro IRA song? That’s nice. Glad you found it funny. Did they manage to get them to put a donation in the hat too?
I’ve no doubt you will stick to your stereotypical view of the English and in a free speaking country that’s your entitlement. I’m sure you can find plenty of examples to label all 50m people and fuel your prejudices. It’s 331 years since the Battle of the Boyne. You can start there if you like. It’s up to you.
I chose not to label peoples of other countries in that way.
You can pick up an Italian shirt for about £75 by the way. |
What a nasty reply that it is.
The most common stereotype is that Ireland will be shouting on Italy, that we somehow all hate the English. The point I was making is that for me, there is clearly a contrast between people like Jack Charlton and other English people I know and am friends with and some of the less palatable experiences of England - whether brexit shenanigans from certain politicians, slants in media, behavior of some of your supporters, a knowledge of my countries' history, or dare I say it, my experiences with certain posters on here. a minority of posters on here.
If you had the remotest understanding of Irish history, you would readily recognise that I could go back hundreds of years and fill a book for you and to say I have gone back to one episode some 26 years ago to have a dig is unfair and hostile. I've experienced that before on here though so your post is not an exception.
I have good friends who are English, one of whom passed away early this year. I couldn't go to his funeral. But I think of him, and people like him, his family, his friends, sports people like Big Jack, and others who are a significant counterweight to the stereotype you are so focused on.
As for your umbrage over the tiocfaidh ar la, I think you have again missed the point entirely. Or did it bother you to notice that it was followed by no nation having clean hands?
The whole point of my post was to say in a country which everyone might perceive as anti English, it is certainly not the case, and that I (at least in my experience) see both good and bad.
I don't need an Italy shirt. I'm not Italian. AS for your suggesting you do not label peoples of other countries "in that way" (whatever way you misinterpret that to be), the tone and content of your post suggest otherwise.
I had started to post here and there again after taking a little time out in light of posts like yours. Silly me. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 16:51]
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| Proud to be English on 16:41 - Jul 9 with 952 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 16:04 - Jul 9 by noggin |
I suspect the majority of Irish people 'hate' the ruling class of England and that is understandable given the history. Travel to Ireland, behave yourself, and you will be welcomed with open arms and pints of the black stuff. |
We don't though. That's the point. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:43 - Jul 9 with 951 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 15:28 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
Let's just hope that decency prevails and that those who represent all that is right about Ireland will be the ones we can remember and that it is they who are at the forefront on Sunday. |
What's wrong with that?
Through out the competition there has been comment on English fans booing the anthems of opposing teams for example,
Is it really so "xenophobic" to wish that the story on Sunday is about the good side of English football? | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:56 - Jul 9 with 941 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 15:51 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Funny isn't it, how much exposure the "Small elements" get and the rest of us get tarnished with the same brush.
Unconscious xenophobia all over this thread. |
And yet I'm not surprised you've jumped in the way you have.
The "small elements" are not always as small as you might think but that was not the focus of my post.
You an Ulla seem to have some serious issues when it comes to things Irish. | |
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| Proud to be English on 16:58 - Jul 9 with 934 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 16:56 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
And yet I'm not surprised you've jumped in the way you have.
The "small elements" are not always as small as you might think but that was not the focus of my post.
You an Ulla seem to have some serious issues when it comes to things Irish. |
Can you point out what I have said in this thread where I have issues with the Irish?
Just to add, in 2001 I lived in Australia and moved into a house with 15 Dubliners who welcomed me with open arms, bar one chap who had a hatred for the English, but after a few months completely changed his tune and we became and still remain great friends, and I visit at least once a year to see them all, the biggest arguments in the house were the constant battles between the North Siders and the South Siders, it was a battle between Clontarf and Raheny which I found hilarious, to this day they still argue about it.
But I for one wouldn't tarnish one guys view as a majority, unlike you, who clearly has a chip on your shoulder from the various threads I've read over time.
Unlike you, I understand that there will always be a minority of D1ckheads wherever you go. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:09]
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| Proud to be English on 17:08 - Jul 9 with 923 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 23:55 - Jul 8 by Churchman |
Yes, they are English. But they don’t define the English any more than neo nazis in Germany define Germans. They are a minority. A stupid minority. The majority are decent people who want their team to do well.
In a democracy, if you want to bleat on about out numskull politicians, an idiot with a laser pen a % of muppets that boo anthems, you can. But they don’t represent us. That football team does. They don’t engage in the way one of the Italian players did today, yet they answer press questions and do what’s required of them. There’s no dentists chair etc.
This team are a credit to the game, themselves and football supporters who at a national level have not seen anything like it for 55 years. If you are English, enjoy it. If you are Scottish, you’d better buy yet another shirt. At least the Azzurri one is a nice colour. [Post edited 8 Jul 2021 23:58]
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Incidentally, it seems the tiocfaidh ar la clip was posted by the English guys who clearly saw it in a very different way to you. | |
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| Proud to be English on 17:10 - Jul 9 with 916 views | noggin |
| Proud to be English on 16:41 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
We don't though. That's the point. |
I would. | |
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| Proud to be English on 17:11 - Jul 9 with 911 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 16:58 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Can you point out what I have said in this thread where I have issues with the Irish?
Just to add, in 2001 I lived in Australia and moved into a house with 15 Dubliners who welcomed me with open arms, bar one chap who had a hatred for the English, but after a few months completely changed his tune and we became and still remain great friends, and I visit at least once a year to see them all, the biggest arguments in the house were the constant battles between the North Siders and the South Siders, it was a battle between Clontarf and Raheny which I found hilarious, to this day they still argue about it.
But I for one wouldn't tarnish one guys view as a majority, unlike you, who clearly has a chip on your shoulder from the various threads I've read over time.
Unlike you, I understand that there will always be a minority of D1ckheads wherever you go. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:09]
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You can do that yourself.
Has it not dawned on you that I might have good reason to think that and that I have no wish or motivation to otherwise do do? | |
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