| Proud to be English 20:31 - Jul 8 with 8142 views | CaptainAhab |
Honestly not something I've ever written before, but in the aftermath of last night I've been feeling quite emotional... I shed a tear or two after the game, this morning after someone posted the Mason Mount video and just now after seeing the video of the Muslim scholars.
Then I saw this post by a random commenter, which summed it up so perfectly, which helped me to understand quite why I'm feeling this way. This is beautiful:
This team of young men: young men who campaign to feed poor children, who kneel against racism, who stand up for lgbtq+ rights, some whose parents or grandparents came to this country as immigrants, some who came from broken homes, some who fought against unfair criticism for their place in the team... this team of young men, who support each other and strive for the success of THEIR TEAM rather than for individual glory... this team of young men, and their strong, supportive, intelligent, compassionate manager, have inspired and impressed and earned the respect of every one of us, and they have unified us at a time of great division.
I am so overwhelmed by their attitude, professionalism and love for the game. This team of young men will go down in history as the pride of England, regardless of Sunday's outcome. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿â¤ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ |  | | |  |
| Proud to be English on 19:01 - Jul 9 with 751 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 18:40 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
J2, if I can invite you to look at this from another perspective.
At the outset, I would hope it is clear I’m not anti English and that my post (which has misconstrued by Churchman and piled on by others) is in fact a balanced post.
There’s good and bad with every nation.
From my perspective, Churchman’s attack is grossly unfair. It stereotypes me as anti English because the balance involves negative experiences of the English like that night in Dublin in 1995. Big Jack, whom I revere, was even more scathing.
Yet Churchman starts a pile on and others enter the fray, copperfastening the stereotype, all the while convinced they couldn’t be racist. |
Would you please have the manners to explain your accusation of racism? Its actually quite a serious thing and I'd like you to have the good grace to justify it.
Thanks. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 19:02 - Jul 9 with 736 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 18:59 - Jul 9 by Ryorry |
Probably too late for you now, but you can sometimes recover posts on here by back-buttoning 2 -4 times. |
Thanks Ryorry.
But it’s gone ...the moment’s gone 😢 |  |
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| Proud to be English on 19:04 - Jul 9 with 732 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 17:14 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Again, I ask, Can you point out what I have said in this thread where I have issues with the Irish?
Thought not. |
Despite it being obvious that Churchman’s attack is unfair., you sought no clarification from me. You could have run a post starting “Moriarty, can I just clarify what you mean by…”.
That’s not your thing. Instead you get the jingoism and stereotype me as anti English, twisting and misconstruing my post as a “yeah they’re nice sometimes but” post, with your emphasis and twisting focused on the but bit.
I resent you stereotyping me as anti English (which I’m not) because of my nationality. And not for the first time. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 19:10 - Jul 9 with 712 views | jeera |
| Proud to be English on 15:47 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Good post.
I’ll echo what was said above about liking this English team and Southgate even as a Scot. But you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion. And seeing them “celebrate” is always unpleasant.
No coincidence that it’s these elements who hated the current English team and the more evolved values they stand for ... before they decided to hijack the bandwagon. |
"you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion."
Bu that's just the same as the rest of us. Well, most of us.
To dislike unlikeable people isn't uncommon nor exclusive to any particular nationality. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 19:13 - Jul 9 with 709 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 19:01 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
Would you please have the manners to explain your accusation of racism? Its actually quite a serious thing and I'd like you to have the good grace to justify it.
Thanks. |
See reply to Hype just above. | |
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| Proud to be English on 19:28 - Jul 9 with 682 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 19:04 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
Despite it being obvious that Churchman’s attack is unfair., you sought no clarification from me. You could have run a post starting “Moriarty, can I just clarify what you mean by…”.
That’s not your thing. Instead you get the jingoism and stereotype me as anti English, twisting and misconstruing my post as a “yeah they’re nice sometimes but” post, with your emphasis and twisting focused on the but bit.
I resent you stereotyping me as anti English (which I’m not) because of my nationality. And not for the first time. |
I'll take that as a no then.
Have a nice evening. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 19:32 - Jul 9 with 675 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 17:29 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’ve misinterpreted the OP to be honest. It’s that this current side and the feeling they’ve generated are a breath of fresh air. I don’t think that’s in doubt as it’s much more positive and inclusive overall. That’s civic nationalism.
But keep on doing whatever it is you’re doing in your little bubble. |
He certainly has.
Why does he embrace that perspective? I’ll leave that one to him.
Ulla and Hype have wallowed in Churchman’s grossly unfair attack and have done so utterly oblivious to how offensive and snide it is of them to misrepresent any negatives in a balanced post as typically anti English given my nationality.
And then it’s a great big omfg from them when their stereotyping is pointed out. They don’t get that’s it’s them doing the stereotyping here.
PS My father has an English passport! | |
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| Proud to be English on 19:34 - Jul 9 with 671 views | Churchman |
| Proud to be English on 19:04 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
Despite it being obvious that Churchman’s attack is unfair., you sought no clarification from me. You could have run a post starting “Moriarty, can I just clarify what you mean by…”.
That’s not your thing. Instead you get the jingoism and stereotype me as anti English, twisting and misconstruing my post as a “yeah they’re nice sometimes but” post, with your emphasis and twisting focused on the but bit.
I resent you stereotyping me as anti English (which I’m not) because of my nationality. And not for the first time. |
My first post was about the majority of English people. You responded directly to that post in the way that you did. I didn’t agree with you and responded accordingly. You chose the route you took and let’s be honest, it was anti English. Dressing it up with a few comments later in your first post and subsequently does not change the main thrust of your response in my view. It’s how I read it.
For the record you talk of my post being ‘nasty’, ‘unfair’ etc. I did not abuse you; I just replied to your response but you are entitled to your view. I make no apology, for example, of not liking the idea of guests in a country being made a fool of by their hosts wherever they’re from and staying. I would add that because somebody may not agree with you does not necessarily mean they are ignorant of history.
I stand by what I posted and will leave it there. |  | | |
| Proud to be English on 19:36 - Jul 9 with 669 views | Funge |
| Proud to be English on 17:55 - Jul 9 by J2BLUE |
Your general attitude is that it's England's fault. All of the time. You had your chance to go it alone and hopefully you'll get another one soon.
Your reply to Ulla was out of order as well. Never come across as anything other than decent (with the obvious exception) but because he doesn't join in the 24/7 circle jerk where you lot constantly twist everything to injustice and pat each other on the back for pointing it out you act like he's part of the problem.
Some people just live their lives treating everyone with respect and decency rather than constantly look to show everyone online how amazingly tolerant they are. This site is now the same small group of posters posting the same sh1te day in, day out and patting each other on the back. |
Good post. |  | | |
| Proud to be English on 19:39 - Jul 9 with 660 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 19:28 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
I'll take that as a no then.
Have a nice evening. |
That’s the problem.
Resolutely blind. | |
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| Proud to be English on 19:42 - Jul 9 with 655 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 19:32 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
He certainly has.
Why does he embrace that perspective? I’ll leave that one to him.
Ulla and Hype have wallowed in Churchman’s grossly unfair attack and have done so utterly oblivious to how offensive and snide it is of them to misrepresent any negatives in a balanced post as typically anti English given my nationality.
And then it’s a great big omfg from them when their stereotyping is pointed out. They don’t get that’s it’s them doing the stereotyping here.
PS My father has an English passport! |
I haven't wallowed in anything, you called me anti Irish without any foundation, I merely asked for evidence to that statement which you haven't given, and then proceeded to spout waffle.
You have tied yourself up in knots and now look like a berk.
Carry on waffling. | |
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| Proud to be English on 19:45 - Jul 9 with 649 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 19:39 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
That’s the problem.
Resolutely blind. |
Deary me. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:04 - Jul 9 with 632 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 19:32 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
He certainly has.
Why does he embrace that perspective? I’ll leave that one to him.
Ulla and Hype have wallowed in Churchman’s grossly unfair attack and have done so utterly oblivious to how offensive and snide it is of them to misrepresent any negatives in a balanced post as typically anti English given my nationality.
And then it’s a great big omfg from them when their stereotyping is pointed out. They don’t get that’s it’s them doing the stereotyping here.
PS My father has an English passport! |
I haven't read Churchman's post. I took your post as I read it: a mean-spirited counter to a pleasant OP.
I haven’t generalised about the Irish, but you have about the English, albeit with the cover of a nod to the odd decent Englishman, yet it is me and Hype who get accused of prejudice?!!
Its bonkers mr and I regret the fact that I’ve joined you in your dirt today (that’s *your* dirt — not Irish dirt).
The irony is that you’ve made assumptions and generalised as well as any racist.
In short, if you can't take a very gentle complaint about your comments, don't dish them out and then cry about racism. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 20:05]
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| Proud to be English on 20:28 - Jul 9 with 618 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 20:04 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
I haven't read Churchman's post. I took your post as I read it: a mean-spirited counter to a pleasant OP.
I haven’t generalised about the Irish, but you have about the English, albeit with the cover of a nod to the odd decent Englishman, yet it is me and Hype who get accused of prejudice?!!
Its bonkers mr and I regret the fact that I’ve joined you in your dirt today (that’s *your* dirt — not Irish dirt).
The irony is that you’ve made assumptions and generalised as well as any racist.
In short, if you can't take a very gentle complaint about your comments, don't dish them out and then cry about racism. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 20:05]
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BS.
My post most certainly was not mean spirited. That’s the spin you, Churchman and Hype gave it and gave fuel to that via cheap jingoism trying to start and maintain a pile on.
I have spoken highly of Big Jack and others. Balanced the reasons I might have for not supporting England by highlighting positives. No where do I suggest I’m up for Italy. In fact, I wished England good luck before Denmark. I think I’ve offered plenty of pro England comments. What’s driving you blinds you to that.
Your tone and use of the word “dirt” give you away. They’re telling. About you. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:37 - Jul 9 with 584 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 19:10 - Jul 9 by jeera |
"you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion."
Bu that's just the same as the rest of us. Well, most of us.
To dislike unlikeable people isn't uncommon nor exclusive to any particular nationality. |
Agreed.
But IMO it’s nice to see a lot more clear water between the majority and the minority for a change. I think we’re seeing those elements exposed more and more, which can only be a good thing.
Hell, you’ve even got non-English liking the English team! Not happened in my lifetime – although my Dad talks about a fair amount of support and joint celebration in 1966. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:43 - Jul 9 with 567 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 20:28 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
BS.
My post most certainly was not mean spirited. That’s the spin you, Churchman and Hype gave it and gave fuel to that via cheap jingoism trying to start and maintain a pile on.
I have spoken highly of Big Jack and others. Balanced the reasons I might have for not supporting England by highlighting positives. No where do I suggest I’m up for Italy. In fact, I wished England good luck before Denmark. I think I’ve offered plenty of pro England comments. What’s driving you blinds you to that.
Your tone and use of the word “dirt” give you away. They’re telling. About you. |
You can think of me as wish. I’m confident in the fact that if there’s been any racism, nationalism or jingoism floating around in this thread, its been provided mainly by you.
I think that actually the truth is much more simple though. You just didn’t like being contradicted.
I suggest as two supposedly grown adults we leave this now (or at least after you’ve had you’ve had your reply, should you wish it). | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:44 - Jul 9 with 561 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 20:28 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
BS.
My post most certainly was not mean spirited. That’s the spin you, Churchman and Hype gave it and gave fuel to that via cheap jingoism trying to start and maintain a pile on.
I have spoken highly of Big Jack and others. Balanced the reasons I might have for not supporting England by highlighting positives. No where do I suggest I’m up for Italy. In fact, I wished England good luck before Denmark. I think I’ve offered plenty of pro England comments. What’s driving you blinds you to that.
Your tone and use of the word “dirt” give you away. They’re telling. About you. |
I'll keep asking, even though I'm wasting time, where have I or Ulla spouted cheap jingoism?
You're the one looking like a bigoted xenophobe. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:46 - Jul 9 with 553 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 20:44 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
I'll keep asking, even though I'm wasting time, where have I or Ulla spouted cheap jingoism?
You're the one looking like a bigoted xenophobe. |
I'm wonderring if Moriarty is just a windup merchant. If so, great. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:50 - Jul 9 with 538 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 20:43 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
You can think of me as wish. I’m confident in the fact that if there’s been any racism, nationalism or jingoism floating around in this thread, its been provided mainly by you.
I think that actually the truth is much more simple though. You just didn’t like being contradicted.
I suggest as two supposedly grown adults we leave this now (or at least after you’ve had you’ve had your reply, should you wish it). |
If you could put yourself in someone else’s shoes for a minute rather than actively trying to squeeze things into your own narrow view, then you wouldn’t have such a problem with other outside perspectives on England and the UK.
Just saying. It’s healthier to take these views on board. | |
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| Proud to be English on 20:55 - Jul 9 with 517 views | giant_stow |
| Proud to be English on 20:50 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
If you could put yourself in someone else’s shoes for a minute rather than actively trying to squeeze things into your own narrow view, then you wouldn’t have such a problem with other outside perspectives on England and the UK.
Just saying. It’s healthier to take these views on board. |
can I ask that you heed you own words there please?!
I'm well aware of how England and the english look to many outsiders - we hear about it *all* the time. I've kicked back at that sentiment in a gentle manner in this thread and have been called a 'racist and a 'c@nt'* for it - is that reasonable?!
*Don't get me wrong, from you, that's a compliment, but this doesn't show a healthy level of discourse does it and where's all that anger and bile coming from? Not me. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 20:56]
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| Proud to be English on 21:01 - Jul 9 with 508 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 19:10 - Jul 9 by jeera |
"you’re exactly right about some small elements of the England fans, public, politicians and media who I hate with a passion."
Bu that's just the same as the rest of us. Well, most of us.
To dislike unlikeable people isn't uncommon nor exclusive to any particular nationality. |
I’d add to that that my English friends, especially my good friend who passed away earlier this year utterly abhorred the behaviour of the mayhem makers in Lansdowne Road in 95. That’s the decent England I know and respect.
The agenda I’m opposing here though is that referencing the mayhem of 95 in the breath as me idolising Jack - and those like him, is deliberately being misconstrued as an attack on England tempered with insincere token “but it’s not all of ye”. I was there that night. It didn’t change my view of my English friends. I know what Jack felt and why. And Jack was English. My point is there is great and bad in England, as there is here in Ireland, and indeed everywhere else.
The spin of Churchman, Hype and Ulla is predicated on jingoistic BS that because I’m Irish, I’m obviously anti English, only capable of negativity towards England or insincere praise. I’m calling out that BS and stereotyping. Their attacks and grossly unfair. | |
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| Proud to be English on 21:02 - Jul 9 with 798 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 20:55 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
can I ask that you heed you own words there please?!
I'm well aware of how England and the english look to many outsiders - we hear about it *all* the time. I've kicked back at that sentiment in a gentle manner in this thread and have been called a 'racist and a 'c@nt'* for it - is that reasonable?!
*Don't get me wrong, from you, that's a compliment, but this doesn't show a healthy level of discourse does it and where's all that anger and bile coming from? Not me. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 20:56]
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Because I’ve heard your line all my life. And it’s not true.
Moriarty says something that pushes back against the narrative and he’s causing a problem and is accused of being xenophobic. There’s an irony in that that you’ll seemingly never get.
I’ll be honest, I just don’t get the instant defensiveness and the need to go on the attack given the facts. | |
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| Proud to be English on 21:09 - Jul 9 with 786 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 21:01 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
I’d add to that that my English friends, especially my good friend who passed away earlier this year utterly abhorred the behaviour of the mayhem makers in Lansdowne Road in 95. That’s the decent England I know and respect.
The agenda I’m opposing here though is that referencing the mayhem of 95 in the breath as me idolising Jack - and those like him, is deliberately being misconstrued as an attack on England tempered with insincere token “but it’s not all of ye”. I was there that night. It didn’t change my view of my English friends. I know what Jack felt and why. And Jack was English. My point is there is great and bad in England, as there is here in Ireland, and indeed everywhere else.
The spin of Churchman, Hype and Ulla is predicated on jingoistic BS that because I’m Irish, I’m obviously anti English, only capable of negativity towards England or insincere praise. I’m calling out that BS and stereotyping. Their attacks and grossly unfair. |
Well said.
And in the context of the OP that 25 people agree with and no-one disagrees with I’m not sure why we’re having this discussion or why your take on it is being attacked. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 21:10]
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| Proud to be English on 21:13 - Jul 9 with 773 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 21:09 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Well said.
And in the context of the OP that 25 people agree with and no-one disagrees with I’m not sure why we’re having this discussion or why your take on it is being attacked. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 21:10]
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Because he's s accused me of being Anti Irish and I find that offensive, and despite me asking for evidence of it, he continues this line without foundation.
He's clearly a troll and a wind up merchant, I'm not going to continue engaging with the clown. | |
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