| Proud to be English 20:31 - Jul 8 with 7261 views | CaptainAhab |
Honestly not something I've ever written before, but in the aftermath of last night I've been feeling quite emotional... I shed a tear or two after the game, this morning after someone posted the Mason Mount video and just now after seeing the video of the Muslim scholars.
Then I saw this post by a random commenter, which summed it up so perfectly, which helped me to understand quite why I'm feeling this way. This is beautiful:
This team of young men: young men who campaign to feed poor children, who kneel against racism, who stand up for lgbtq+ rights, some whose parents or grandparents came to this country as immigrants, some who came from broken homes, some who fought against unfair criticism for their place in the team... this team of young men, who support each other and strive for the success of THEIR TEAM rather than for individual glory... this team of young men, and their strong, supportive, intelligent, compassionate manager, have inspired and impressed and earned the respect of every one of us, and they have unified us at a time of great division.
I am so overwhelmed by their attitude, professionalism and love for the game. This team of young men will go down in history as the pride of England, regardless of Sunday's outcome. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿â¤ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ |  | | |  |
| Proud to be English on 21:27 - Jul 9 with 1597 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 21:13 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Because he's s accused me of being Anti Irish and I find that offensive, and despite me asking for evidence of it, he continues this line without foundation.
He's clearly a troll and a wind up merchant, I'm not going to continue engaging with the clown. |
Lots of interweaving strands here. I don’t think you were anti-Irish although the “Unconscious xenophobia” line was a bit off in a wider sense.
Moriarty seems to suggest it was something you’ve said previously. But I know nothing about that so he should take that back if there’s nothing to it.
And for what it’s worth I’ve never picked up xenophobia on your part and I definitely wouldn’t put you into the same clueless feckwit category as chico and ullaa. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 21:39 - Jul 9 with 1568 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 21:27 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Lots of interweaving strands here. I don’t think you were anti-Irish although the “Unconscious xenophobia” line was a bit off in a wider sense.
Moriarty seems to suggest it was something you’ve said previously. But I know nothing about that so he should take that back if there’s nothing to it.
And for what it’s worth I’ve never picked up xenophobia on your part and I definitely wouldn’t put you into the same clueless feckwit category as chico and ullaa. |
I've never interacted with him before, so there cant be any old arguments resurfacing, and generally I tend to stick to footy posts, but I took umbrage with his accusation.
But, on the whole I agree with what you are saying, and maybe my unconscious xenophobe line was a little OTT. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 21:46 - Jul 9 with 1557 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 21:39 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
I've never interacted with him before, so there cant be any old arguments resurfacing, and generally I tend to stick to footy posts, but I took umbrage with his accusation.
But, on the whole I agree with what you are saying, and maybe my unconscious xenophobe line was a little OTT. |
Morrers needs to address that first response to you then. Hopefully, it’s mistaken identity.
The madness is that I think all the decent people on this thread (I’m aiming for decent anyway) all agree with the positiveness of the OP.
Feels strange but if England win then that might help effect the change I want to see in the UK. That’s an idea I never thought I’d have! 😀 | |
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| Proud to be English on 21:53 - Jul 9 with 1538 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 21:46 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Morrers needs to address that first response to you then. Hopefully, it’s mistaken identity.
The madness is that I think all the decent people on this thread (I’m aiming for decent anyway) all agree with the positiveness of the OP.
Feels strange but if England win then that might help effect the change I want to see in the UK. That’s an idea I never thought I’d have! 😀 |
The ironic thing is I've never been overly bothered by the national team, its enough heartache following Town over the years, but I do enjoy seeing the positivity it brings to the place when we do well. 05 Ashes was special especially for the sporting aspect, I loved the 03 Rugby WC as I was in Oz at the time and the friendly banter with my Aussie colleagues was good fun.
But on the whole my first love, passion and loyalty is with ITFC, for my sins. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:06 - Jul 9 with 1525 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 21:53 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
The ironic thing is I've never been overly bothered by the national team, its enough heartache following Town over the years, but I do enjoy seeing the positivity it brings to the place when we do well. 05 Ashes was special especially for the sporting aspect, I loved the 03 Rugby WC as I was in Oz at the time and the friendly banter with my Aussie colleagues was good fun.
But on the whole my first love, passion and loyalty is with ITFC, for my sins. |
Interesting.
I always thought that if Hibernian had more success then my attachment to Ipswich might wane. But by the sound of it probably not – despite me having no geographic or family connection there.
Just an 11-year old picking a team when he’s transplanted to Somerset. Everyone else had Liverpool, Man U, Villa or Forest but I liked John Wark and Bobby Robson.
I think support for your club is always more personal and somehow important. But that’s also the Tartan Army to an extent – nothing to do with success. By definition it has to become something personal and only shared by those around you. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:07 - Jul 9 with 1516 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 20:44 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
I'll keep asking, even though I'm wasting time, where have I or Ulla spouted cheap jingoism?
You're the one looking like a bigoted xenophobe. |
That post is entirely a reflection on you. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 22:10 - Jul 9 with 1513 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 22:07 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
That post is entirely a reflection on you. |
Think we're done here.
Clearly you can't substantiate your accusation, which is more a reflection on you than me.
All the best. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:13 - Jul 9 with 1510 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 21:13 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Because he's s accused me of being Anti Irish and I find that offensive, and despite me asking for evidence of it, he continues this line without foundation.
He's clearly a troll and a wind up merchant, I'm not going to continue engaging with the clown. |
Careful now. You’re revealing yourself. Your language has lost balance.
I’m no troll.
Im offended by you, Churchman and ulla and the spin you’ve given my posts and the accusations you’ve made against me. You’ve now resorted to personal insults. Nasty ones at that. Reflect on them if you wish. They’re thoroughly unsavoury. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:13 - Jul 9 with 1509 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 22:06 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Interesting.
I always thought that if Hibernian had more success then my attachment to Ipswich might wane. But by the sound of it probably not – despite me having no geographic or family connection there.
Just an 11-year old picking a team when he’s transplanted to Somerset. Everyone else had Liverpool, Man U, Villa or Forest but I liked John Wark and Bobby Robson.
I think support for your club is always more personal and somehow important. But that’s also the Tartan Army to an extent – nothing to do with success. By definition it has to become something personal and only shared by those around you. |
Glory seeker  Ipswich, not the tartan army, although given your timescales, you must have started supporting ITFC when Archie Gemmil was tearing it up, not been much to cheer about either since, bar a fleeting 2000 voyage.. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:17 - Jul 9 with 1504 views | footers |
| Proud to be English on 22:13 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
Careful now. You’re revealing yourself. Your language has lost balance.
I’m no troll.
Im offended by you, Churchman and ulla and the spin you’ve given my posts and the accusations you’ve made against me. You’ve now resorted to personal insults. Nasty ones at that. Reflect on them if you wish. They’re thoroughly unsavoury. |
Can we just clear up what has been said here, please? All this Anglo-Irish conflict is giving me the worries.
I don't understand what has triggered this between posters who are all generally good eggs (your good self included), even as a known adoptive son of eire.
Doubt any of them had malice in their posts, and even unbiased malice by reading what's been written. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 22:19 - Jul 9 with 1498 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 22:13 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
Careful now. You’re revealing yourself. Your language has lost balance.
I’m no troll.
Im offended by you, Churchman and ulla and the spin you’ve given my posts and the accusations you’ve made against me. You’ve now resorted to personal insults. Nasty ones at that. Reflect on them if you wish. They’re thoroughly unsavoury. |
Hmm how about not throwing around unsubstantiated accusations, you then might find people being more civil to you. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:24 - Jul 9 with 1488 views | Churchman |
| Proud to be English on 21:53 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
The ironic thing is I've never been overly bothered by the national team, its enough heartache following Town over the years, but I do enjoy seeing the positivity it brings to the place when we do well. 05 Ashes was special especially for the sporting aspect, I loved the 03 Rugby WC as I was in Oz at the time and the friendly banter with my Aussie colleagues was good fun.
But on the whole my first love, passion and loyalty is with ITFC, for my sins. |
Much the same for me. It’s always been club first. I was lucky to see a few England games in my yoof and while they were great experiences, they were a long way off Ipswich games. The first time I really got excited by England was Italia 90 then 96. The whole flags, 3 lions stuff etc I loved. I enjoyed 98 too, but only because I had a couple of months off after leaving my job and vowed to watch every minute of every game. Great fun even if we were garbage.
Since then, I’ve watched the games and waited for the sad defeat which always came with an inevitability. Even if we won, we were always technically inferior and won on hard work, luck or a few good players after we’d got through some player or manager disgrace or shambles.
But this team is different and for the first time in years I’m engaged with it. Don’t get me wrong, club first second and third, but the nation team, like the cricketers 2 years ago and 2005/9 and in Australia, rugby team 03, have done us proud. |  | | |
| Proud to be English on 22:24 - Jul 9 with 1492 views | Darth_Koont |
| Proud to be English on 22:13 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Glory seeker Ipswich, not the tartan army, although given your timescales, you must have started supporting ITFC when Archie Gemmil was tearing it up, not been much to cheer about either since, bar a fleeting 2000 voyage.. |
Totally! West Somerset in the 80s was all about glory-seeking – still is.
I could have chosen Liverpool, Man U etc. But that wouldn’t have made me the (bitter) man I am today 😀 | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:24 - Jul 9 with 1482 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 21:27 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
Lots of interweaving strands here. I don’t think you were anti-Irish although the “Unconscious xenophobia” line was a bit off in a wider sense.
Moriarty seems to suggest it was something you’ve said previously. But I know nothing about that so he should take that back if there’s nothing to it.
And for what it’s worth I’ve never picked up xenophobia on your part and I definitely wouldn’t put you into the same clueless feckwit category as chico and ullaa. |
I have a view on certain posters. I took a break for a while because of 2 or 3 posters primarily and low and behold.
It’s like this. If you think I’m a troll or those other things Hype has accused me of, then use the ignore function.
Alternatively, you could conclude that I might just have a point.
Either way, the solution is for me to have my own div list starting now. Probably better for everyone that way!
PS - you’re not on it. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:36 - Jul 9 with 1458 views | hype313 |
| Proud to be English on 22:24 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
I have a view on certain posters. I took a break for a while because of 2 or 3 posters primarily and low and behold.
It’s like this. If you think I’m a troll or those other things Hype has accused me of, then use the ignore function.
Alternatively, you could conclude that I might just have a point.
Either way, the solution is for me to have my own div list starting now. Probably better for everyone that way!
PS - you’re not on it. |
I'm genuinely at a complete loss to what I have allegedly accused you of, I'm baffled.
You accused me of being Anti Irish, think everyone can see that isn't the case and since then you have tried to turn the tables on me.
If anyone on this thread can point out where I have been Anti Irish then I'm all ears, and would gladly and humbly apologise, but that's not who I am, which is why I'm quite angry by your constant jibes. | |
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| Proud to be English on 22:40 - Jul 9 with 1451 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 22:17 - Jul 9 by footers |
Can we just clear up what has been said here, please? All this Anglo-Irish conflict is giving me the worries.
I don't understand what has triggered this between posters who are all generally good eggs (your good self included), even as a known adoptive son of eire.
Doubt any of them had malice in their posts, and even unbiased malice by reading what's been written. |
Churchman condemned me as anti English. Hype and Ulla joined in. They’re wrong. They’re unfair.
Probably a sore spot as I lost a good English friend earlier this year, given my friendship with him, his family and friends.
I’ve put them on ignore now so all is well.
I have to say however spirited my defence of my good self has been, some of the language used against me is in fact somewhat malicious.
Mayo Abu. | |
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| Proud to be English on 23:35 - Jul 9 with 1401 views | Ryorry |
| Proud to be English on 09:18 - Jul 9 by BLUEBEAT |
“We wouldn’t have this England team without ethnic diversity and immigration” is a dangerous path, like lots of supposedly anti racist tropes – what about teams that are *more* ethnically homogenous and do very well or better today – like the Danish side which very nearly beat us? What about the fact that England’s winning side from the 1966 World Cup was all white? Shall we attribute their success to race as well? To *lack* of immigration and ethnic diversity? >>> NO <<< Take a materialist view, not a racial one: the countries that do well have a decent footballing culture and infrastructure that nurtures and rewards players. It really is that simple.
Stop automatically referring to black English players as “immigrants” – by assuming that black people are not ‘as English as white people’ to score some weak point against an imaginary right-wing opponent you have actually supported the worst kind of racial nationalism you would see from the NF or BNP. Admittedly, one player was not born here, but the rest were; born in England = English. Again: it really is that simple.
Please try and enjoy this wonderful period of national unity, hope and joy unreservedly – no ifs, no buts. Just drink it in and grin. |
Tbh, I really don't understand your opening comment "“We wouldn’t have this England team without ethnic diversity and immigration” is a dangerous path, like lots of supposedly anti racist tropes" - as nowhere was that said in the OP.
What *was* said was -
"This team of young men: young men who campaign to feed poor children, who kneel against racism, who stand up for lgbtq+ rights, some whose parents or grandparents came to this country as immigrants, some who came from broken homes, some who fought against unfair criticism for their place in the team... this team of young men, who support each other and strive for the success of THEIR TEAM rather than for individual glory... this team of young men, and their strong, supportive, intelligent, compassionate manager, have inspired and impressed and earned the respect of every one of us, and they have unified us at a time of great division."
World of difference between. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 23:43 - Jul 9 with 1397 views | Ryorry |
| Proud to be English on 22:40 - Jul 9 by Moriarty |
Churchman condemned me as anti English. Hype and Ulla joined in. They’re wrong. They’re unfair.
Probably a sore spot as I lost a good English friend earlier this year, given my friendship with him, his family and friends.
I’ve put them on ignore now so all is well.
I have to say however spirited my defence of my good self has been, some of the language used against me is in fact somewhat malicious.
Mayo Abu. |
Storm in a teacup. Wasn't sure why you posted your first on this thread, maybe you put your finger on it with "Probably a sore spot as I lost a good English friend earlier this year, given my friendship with him, his family and friends". I'm so sorry for your loss.
All the ensuing just seems like typical internetzy misscomms to me - you'd probably all have sorted it in 2 mins flat if you'd been in a pub sinking pints together! | |
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| Proud to be English on 00:28 - Jul 10 with 1353 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 23:43 - Jul 9 by Ryorry |
Storm in a teacup. Wasn't sure why you posted your first on this thread, maybe you put your finger on it with "Probably a sore spot as I lost a good English friend earlier this year, given my friendship with him, his family and friends". I'm so sorry for your loss.
All the ensuing just seems like typical internetzy misscomms to me - you'd probably all have sorted it in 2 mins flat if you'd been in a pub sinking pints together! |
Thank you for that Ryorry.
I’m sorry to say I’m not so sure it’s a storm in a tea cup. I have detected some unsavoury undercurrents here before (not from you).
It’s a tiresome cliche to be accused and hounded as anti English in the manner as has happened here. I unreservedly reject those baseless accusations and the accusers are now on ignore.
I’ve been called a “troll”, “clown”, “bigoted xenophobe”, “racist”, “berk”, “wind up merchant”, and “dirt” and more on this thread (no such offence from you btw).
Thanks again. Best wishes for Sunday. | |
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| Proud to be English on 02:13 - Jul 10 with 1332 views | Ryorry |
| Proud to be English on 00:28 - Jul 10 by Moriarty |
Thank you for that Ryorry.
I’m sorry to say I’m not so sure it’s a storm in a tea cup. I have detected some unsavoury undercurrents here before (not from you).
It’s a tiresome cliche to be accused and hounded as anti English in the manner as has happened here. I unreservedly reject those baseless accusations and the accusers are now on ignore.
I’ve been called a “troll”, “clown”, “bigoted xenophobe”, “racist”, “berk”, “wind up merchant”, and “dirt” and more on this thread (no such offence from you btw).
Thanks again. Best wishes for Sunday. |
Well, we all know what *we* unambiguously mean when we write something - the problem is that those words are often far less unambiguous when interpreted by others, simply because they are obviously different people with different brains & life experiences. If only we could see ourselves as others do! (actually, I've just discovered 'Preview Post' which is helpful with this & might also save the increasing no. of edits I find I have to do)
In long posts particularly, there's often a lot of space for reverberations & ripples between the lines in the minds of readers that aren't actually what the author intended. Just a slightly different take on a word or a sentence can result in a Chinese Whispers spiral galumphing off in a direction which nobody really intended, and emotions & feelings spiralling accordingly
As I think both Darth & Footers said, nobody's really disagreed with the basic premise of the OP, hence my describing the arguing as a storm in a teacup. Personally, I've always found Hype, Churchman & Ulla very decent posters (despite Ulla's incomprehensible attachment to the **** up t'road).
*Edited to spell Churchman's name correctly [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 2:54]
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| Proud to be English on 09:04 - Jul 10 with 1247 views | BLUEBEAT |
| Proud to be English on 23:35 - Jul 9 by Ryorry |
Tbh, I really don't understand your opening comment "“We wouldn’t have this England team without ethnic diversity and immigration” is a dangerous path, like lots of supposedly anti racist tropes" - as nowhere was that said in the OP.
What *was* said was -
"This team of young men: young men who campaign to feed poor children, who kneel against racism, who stand up for lgbtq+ rights, some whose parents or grandparents came to this country as immigrants, some who came from broken homes, some who fought against unfair criticism for their place in the team... this team of young men, who support each other and strive for the success of THEIR TEAM rather than for individual glory... this team of young men, and their strong, supportive, intelligent, compassionate manager, have inspired and impressed and earned the respect of every one of us, and they have unified us at a time of great division."
World of difference between. |
You assume my post was a direct response to the OP.
It wasn’t.
It was a general post using an introductory quote by Stephen Frost, of Forbes, which was being discussed nationally on the same day that this topic started. |  |
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| Proud to be English on 10:03 - Jul 10 with 1213 views | Moriarty |
| Proud to be English on 02:13 - Jul 10 by Ryorry |
Well, we all know what *we* unambiguously mean when we write something - the problem is that those words are often far less unambiguous when interpreted by others, simply because they are obviously different people with different brains & life experiences. If only we could see ourselves as others do! (actually, I've just discovered 'Preview Post' which is helpful with this & might also save the increasing no. of edits I find I have to do)
In long posts particularly, there's often a lot of space for reverberations & ripples between the lines in the minds of readers that aren't actually what the author intended. Just a slightly different take on a word or a sentence can result in a Chinese Whispers spiral galumphing off in a direction which nobody really intended, and emotions & feelings spiralling accordingly
As I think both Darth & Footers said, nobody's really disagreed with the basic premise of the OP, hence my describing the arguing as a storm in a teacup. Personally, I've always found Hype, Churchman & Ulla very decent posters (despite Ulla's incomprehensible attachment to the **** up t'road).
*Edited to spell Churchman's name correctly [Post edited 10 Jul 2021 2:54]
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I said in my post that no nation (including my own) can always claim to have clean hands before mentioning the video clip so I think any reasonable person would draw the obvious conclusion.
Not only did they not do do, they relied and doubled down on deliberate misconstruing, stereotype, and personal abuse so I have to say Ryory, I’m leaving them on ignore. | |
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