| Downes to Bournemouth 07:03 - Jul 13 with 7056 views | leftback |
EADT boys reporting, wake up Phil |  | | |  |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:48 - Jul 13 with 1454 views | hype313 |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:43 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
Both parties were in the wrong and handled it badly - these things don’t happen in a vacuum |
Obviously I'm not privy to internal feelings and thoughts, but from the outset it looks to me like a player handed in a transfer request (perfectly acceptable) and the club turned down an offer they felt wasn't enough, not sure either parties handled it badly.
That's football, as much as it rankles that he wants to leave, I'd dearly love him to stay, you can't blame him for wanting to leave, especially at that time when it was so toxic, and you can't blame the club for wanting more for their most saleable asset.
Unless I'm missing something, I can't see how any party behaved badly? |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:50 - Jul 13 with 1441 views | itfcjoe |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:48 - Jul 13 by hype313 |
Obviously I'm not privy to internal feelings and thoughts, but from the outset it looks to me like a player handed in a transfer request (perfectly acceptable) and the club turned down an offer they felt wasn't enough, not sure either parties handled it badly.
That's football, as much as it rankles that he wants to leave, I'd dearly love him to stay, you can't blame him for wanting to leave, especially at that time when it was so toxic, and you can't blame the club for wanting more for their most saleable asset.
Unless I'm missing something, I can't see how any party behaved badly? |
Offer on table from PL club, club say Downes can only go when they meet valuation, but valuation is ridiculous (£8m). Downes overreacts and hands in request too early, Lambert then plays it all out publicly.
And now we end up with an unhappy player who doesn’t get selected and no doubt a worse fee - no one comes out well |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:55 - Jul 13 with 1412 views | hype313 |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:50 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
Offer on table from PL club, club say Downes can only go when they meet valuation, but valuation is ridiculous (£8m). Downes overreacts and hands in request too early, Lambert then plays it all out publicly.
And now we end up with an unhappy player who doesn’t get selected and no doubt a worse fee - no one comes out well |
Clearly the club were using that figure as a ruse, they knew full well that they had no chance of anything near that £8m, but as we are seeing with Crooks, club gives an idea of figure other club goes way below and they meet in the middle.
FWIW I don't even think Town thought we would get £4m, but I'd no doubt that £2-2.5 would have been accepted. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:55 - Jul 13 with 1407 views | jayessess |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:48 - Jul 13 by hype313 |
Obviously I'm not privy to internal feelings and thoughts, but from the outset it looks to me like a player handed in a transfer request (perfectly acceptable) and the club turned down an offer they felt wasn't enough, not sure either parties handled it badly.
That's football, as much as it rankles that he wants to leave, I'd dearly love him to stay, you can't blame him for wanting to leave, especially at that time when it was so toxic, and you can't blame the club for wanting more for their most saleable asset.
Unless I'm missing something, I can't see how any party behaved badly? |
I think Lambert going to the press and making various oblique remarks about Downes' readiness to play was pretty poor management on the part of the club. |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:58 - Jul 13 with 1386 views | hype313 |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:55 - Jul 13 by jayessess |
I think Lambert going to the press and making various oblique remarks about Downes' readiness to play was pretty poor management on the part of the club. |
Fair point both you and Joe make. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:02 - Jul 13 with 1372 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 09:55 - Jul 13 by jayessess |
I think Lambert going to the press and making various oblique remarks about Downes' readiness to play was pretty poor management on the part of the club. |
Once again though depends on what happens behind the scenes.
Compared Downes to Crooks
Crooks. Training. Working hard. Cracking on. Manager trusts him despite crooks clearly wanting to move
Downes... manager not happy with effort because move is blocked. Etc etc. Manager covering himself to the public due to not selecting a club favourite. It's not unusual and not unexpected. Wrong? Not really.
Either way. It's all done with now. We move on and look forward to how we progress and how he progresses in his own career |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:10 - Jul 13 with 1338 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:02 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Once again though depends on what happens behind the scenes.
Compared Downes to Crooks
Crooks. Training. Working hard. Cracking on. Manager trusts him despite crooks clearly wanting to move
Downes... manager not happy with effort because move is blocked. Etc etc. Manager covering himself to the public due to not selecting a club favourite. It's not unusual and not unexpected. Wrong? Not really.
Either way. It's all done with now. We move on and look forward to how we progress and how he progresses in his own career |
Exactly this. Perhaps not the right characteristics of the type of player we want. Fully appreciate he wanted the move (£££) but there are ways of dealing with things as a professional. An element of bad advice from his agent at the time was muted. Shambert didn’t deal with it well either making it so public. The bottom line is Flynn hasn’t moved on from that and still wants to leave so the sooner he leaves and this is resolved the better for all concerned. |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:13 - Jul 13 with 1312 views | BlueBadger |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 08:34 - Jul 13 by SitfcB |
He’s not wanted to be here since last summer. |
In all fairness, I didn't want to be stuck with us, a declining team spinning their wheels in the third division with an incompetent manager and clueless owner in charge last season either, so I don't blame him. [Post edited 13 Jul 2021 10:14]
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:15 - Jul 13 with 1301 views | jayessess |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:02 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Once again though depends on what happens behind the scenes.
Compared Downes to Crooks
Crooks. Training. Working hard. Cracking on. Manager trusts him despite crooks clearly wanting to move
Downes... manager not happy with effort because move is blocked. Etc etc. Manager covering himself to the public due to not selecting a club favourite. It's not unusual and not unexpected. Wrong? Not really.
Either way. It's all done with now. We move on and look forward to how we progress and how he progresses in his own career |
Not sure why the Evans/Lambert regime still needs defending, but still... at our level managing players who want to leave is a significant part of running the club well. Once we'd decided Downes wasn't going anywhere then the job was to get him re-engaged with playing for the club. That clearly didn't go very well.
I think it's important to recognise that because if, as we all hope, we tear up League One this season, higher placed clubs are going to come for our players and we're going to need a better strategy to manage these situations! | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:20 - Jul 13 with 1272 views | monty_radio |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:15 - Jul 13 by jayessess |
Not sure why the Evans/Lambert regime still needs defending, but still... at our level managing players who want to leave is a significant part of running the club well. Once we'd decided Downes wasn't going anywhere then the job was to get him re-engaged with playing for the club. That clearly didn't go very well.
I think it's important to recognise that because if, as we all hope, we tear up League One this season, higher placed clubs are going to come for our players and we're going to need a better strategy to manage these situations! |
Hopefully the strategy is called Mark Ashton. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:24 - Jul 13 with 1255 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:20 - Jul 13 by monty_radio |
Hopefully the strategy is called Mark Ashton. |
And player character which Ashton points out is very important. The specifics of this only PC and Ashton know but as we have found out plenty of our recent ones havent had it. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:29 - Jul 13 with 1239 views | itfcjoe |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:24 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
And player character which Ashton points out is very important. The specifics of this only PC and Ashton know but as we have found out plenty of our recent ones havent had it. |
It’s utter tripe and insulting to suggest the players we’ve lost didn’t have ‘character’, the club clearly needed a fresh start and it’s getting one. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:39 - Jul 13 with 1188 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:29 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
It’s utter tripe and insulting to suggest the players we’ve lost didn’t have ‘character’, the club clearly needed a fresh start and it’s getting one. |
Not really joe
I said the specifics of it were only known to PC and Ashton which is correct
Character could cover various areas of a personality. In chambers for example. He might be comfortable where he is in life. Has no need or desire to get better or even able to. Not a negative overall but for what PC is building it's not the right character fit.
Of course the above Is personal view. But character is vitally important as Ashton has said and we have let 20 odd players go.. so unless we are saying all 20 are seen as just not good enough then personal character has to come into it.
If however you are saying all 20 are not good enough then theres been no need to bemoan anyone leaving. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:46 - Jul 13 with 1162 views | itfcjoe |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:39 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Not really joe
I said the specifics of it were only known to PC and Ashton which is correct
Character could cover various areas of a personality. In chambers for example. He might be comfortable where he is in life. Has no need or desire to get better or even able to. Not a negative overall but for what PC is building it's not the right character fit.
Of course the above Is personal view. But character is vitally important as Ashton has said and we have let 20 odd players go.. so unless we are saying all 20 are seen as just not good enough then personal character has to come into it.
If however you are saying all 20 are not good enough then theres been no need to bemoan anyone leaving. |
Do you think Norwood shows good character? Or that he is a player that is on a contract that is going to be impossible to shift?
Do you think James Wilson was a bad character? Or that his contract was up and with Toto and Woolfie on longer term deals it was easier to shift him?
Decisions are and have been made for a variety of reasons, the majority of which were that they were out of contract and easy to shift, or that they don’t suit the sort of players Cook requires for the way he wants to play - like Bishop or Dozzell. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:51 - Jul 13 with 1123 views | chicoazul |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:39 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Not really joe
I said the specifics of it were only known to PC and Ashton which is correct
Character could cover various areas of a personality. In chambers for example. He might be comfortable where he is in life. Has no need or desire to get better or even able to. Not a negative overall but for what PC is building it's not the right character fit.
Of course the above Is personal view. But character is vitally important as Ashton has said and we have let 20 odd players go.. so unless we are saying all 20 are seen as just not good enough then personal character has to come into it.
If however you are saying all 20 are not good enough then theres been no need to bemoan anyone leaving. |
When are you going to just accept Joe knows many of the players and can vouch for their characters? Your bickering over these silly points looks very dumb. Hardly any footballers have bad characters professionally. |  |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:54 - Jul 13 with 1110 views | Beckets |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:46 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
Do you think Norwood shows good character? Or that he is a player that is on a contract that is going to be impossible to shift?
Do you think James Wilson was a bad character? Or that his contract was up and with Toto and Woolfie on longer term deals it was easier to shift him?
Decisions are and have been made for a variety of reasons, the majority of which were that they were out of contract and easy to shift, or that they don’t suit the sort of players Cook requires for the way he wants to play - like Bishop or Dozzell. |
Exactly but I think you’ll find that nuance is lost on makin. |  | | |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:54 - Jul 13 with 1108 views | hype313 |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:39 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Not really joe
I said the specifics of it were only known to PC and Ashton which is correct
Character could cover various areas of a personality. In chambers for example. He might be comfortable where he is in life. Has no need or desire to get better or even able to. Not a negative overall but for what PC is building it's not the right character fit.
Of course the above Is personal view. But character is vitally important as Ashton has said and we have let 20 odd players go.. so unless we are saying all 20 are seen as just not good enough then personal character has to come into it.
If however you are saying all 20 are not good enough then theres been no need to bemoan anyone leaving. |
We didn't have bad characters, not sure where you get this idea from? We had an ageing squad that was on a downward trajectory from the their peak, we had a cobbled together squad due to gross mismanagement over the past few years.
In fact, we actually had excellent characters trying to keep the ship from sinking, I dread to think how far we could have fallen without the likes of Chambers and Skuse upholding standards. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:57 - Jul 13 with 1092 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:54 - Jul 13 by hype313 |
We didn't have bad characters, not sure where you get this idea from? We had an ageing squad that was on a downward trajectory from the their peak, we had a cobbled together squad due to gross mismanagement over the past few years.
In fact, we actually had excellent characters trying to keep the ship from sinking, I dread to think how far we could have fallen without the likes of Chambers and Skuse upholding standards. |
Didnt say anything about bad character | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:59 - Jul 13 with 1085 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:51 - Jul 13 by chicoazul |
When are you going to just accept Joe knows many of the players and can vouch for their characters? Your bickering over these silly points looks very dumb. Hardly any footballers have bad characters professionally. |
Again. Not mentioned bad character. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:59 - Jul 13 with 1085 views | hype313 |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:57 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Didnt say anything about bad character |
"Of course the above Is personal view. But character is vitally important as Ashton has said and we have let 20 odd players go.. so unless we are saying all 20 are seen as just not good enough then personal character has to come into it."
What does this mean then if it isn't a slight on Character? | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:59 - Jul 13 with 1083 views | chicoazul |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:59 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Again. Not mentioned bad character. |
You certainly implied it. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 11:03 - Jul 13 with 1065 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:46 - Jul 13 by itfcjoe |
Do you think Norwood shows good character? Or that he is a player that is on a contract that is going to be impossible to shift?
Do you think James Wilson was a bad character? Or that his contract was up and with Toto and Woolfie on longer term deals it was easier to shift him?
Decisions are and have been made for a variety of reasons, the majority of which were that they were out of contract and easy to shift, or that they don’t suit the sort of players Cook requires for the way he wants to play - like Bishop or Dozzell. |
Norwoods character may be something PC likes. If what he says is true and hes in training early. Once of the best trainers etc it's a characteristic PC may like etc | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 11:04 - Jul 13 with 1053 views | chrismakin |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 10:59 - Jul 13 by chicoazul |
You certainly implied it. |
Not really. You've all assumed not meeting a certain character requirement of PC means you have bad character. | |
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| Downes to Bournemouth on 11:12 - Jul 13 with 1022 views | chicoazul |
| Downes to Bournemouth on 11:04 - Jul 13 by chrismakin |
Not really. You've all assumed not meeting a certain character requirement of PC means you have bad character. |
And you’ve assumed, in the post literally above this one, that Norwood has character PC may like. It’s all assumptions and 2+2 making 5 or whatever you choose it to. Joe is solid, knows people, and your constant bickering over things like this is dumb. | |
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